Hobby Jobs: Trust Is the Competitive Advantage with Grant Paterson of Total Sports Cards

Foreign. What is going on? How you doing? We're back. It's Hobby Jobs. Want to shout out everyone who has given me feedback on Hobby Jobs. This content series, the newsletter over the last several weeks. It has been awesome to hear from you. Love the validation that this content is something that is needed. I'm having a blast digging into the industry side of the sports card hobby. There is so much going on. The infrastructure is forming, cool people are working at cool jobs or are starting their own thing and that is why I want this content to continue to grow, reach new operators and entrepreneurs in this space. If you're building something in sports cards or thinking seriously about building something in sports cards, I want this show to be for you. I want this to be the place where we study operators, how they think, how they build, how they earn trust, how they grow, how they make decisions when money is on the table. The professional side of this industry has been underserved for too long. The people building the businesses are keeping this industry moving and if you want to build a company, build a career, or even become more intentional about how you operate in this space, I think there is a massive gap for this kind of conversation. I have more energy around Hobby Jobs than almost anything else, so I appreciate all of the passion. This conversation is going to be fun. It is a big week in our industry with Fanatics Fest going on. I will be there. I would love to connect hear from you. This conversation will also include a chat I had with Grant Patterson. Total Sports Cards had that chat in person at the Columbus Card Fest. What a awesome individual owner entrepreneur. He is building quite the business. A lot of fun insights that I think you will find valuable today. I want to expand on the latest edition of hobbyjobs, which was built around one simple idea. Trust compounds faster than transactions and I think this idea is bigger than it sounds because almost everyone in this hobby says they want repeat business. Everyone says they want loyal customers, everyone says they want relationships. Everyone says they want to build something durable. But most people still behave like they're trying to win the transaction in front of them, not the next 10 that could come after it. So that's where I want to start. I've been thinking a lot about repeat business and what it actually is, not what we say it is, what it actually is. I think a lot of operators talk about repeat business like it begins after the first sale and I don't think that's right. I think repeat business begins before the first sale is ever completed. It begins when the customer starts deciding whether they believe you, whether they believe your product descriptions, whether they believe in the way you communicate, whether they believe your recommendation, whether they believe your judgment, whether they believe you are trying to help them make the right decision or just the easiest decision for you. That is why trust matters so much. When trust is high, everything moves easier. People ask fewer questions, they'll hesitate less. They forgive small mistakes, they return faster. They tell their damn friends. They listen. When you're recommending something, the next transaction has less friction than the last one. And that is not just a hobby philosophy. PwC's trust research found that consumers buy more from companies they trust, some are willing to pay a premium, and a meaningful number stop buying entirely when trust breaks. They also found that some of the biggest drivers of trust are pretty basic. Solve concerns quickly, deliver reliable experience, do what you say you're going to do, and make people feel safe engaging with you. That's the key. Trust isn't fluffy. Trust is operational. Trust shows up in whether your website is clear. It shows up whether status updates come before the customer has to chase you. Trust shows up whether your shipping is consistent. Trust shows up whether your return or problem resolution process protects the relationship. Trust shows up whether your content sounds like conviction or a disguised sales pitch. And right now in collectibles, trust matters even more because the environment is getting harder. PSA says counterfeit items are becoming more frequent, more sophisticated and harder to spot than ever. And that is 2025 fraud work intercepted more than 200 million in projected fraudulent collectibles. EBay's trading card authentication program physically inspects eligible cards and can pull failed items out of circulation before they reach the buyer. That should tell you everything you need to know about where the market is headed. Buyers want less ambiguity, not more. So if you are an operator, here is the question that I think matters not how do I make more sales? The better question is what are we doing every day that increases trust? And what are we doing every day that quietly decreases it? And that's the harder question because sometimes the answer is uncomfortable. Sometimes the answer is that your process is too vague. Sometimes the answer is that your communication is too reactive. Sometimes the answer is that your website creates confusion. Sometimes the answer is that your content is useful on the surface but transactional underneath. Sometimes the answer is that you're over automating the wrong moments and under communicating after money is already in your account. And I think that's where operators get exposed. Anybody can sound trustworthy when everything is going smoothly. The real test is when the money is sitting on the table? Do you oversell the card? Do you talk someone into the wrong buy because you can? Do you ignore risk because the sale is there? Do you keep a consignment that would honestly perform better somewhere else? Do you stay quiet because telling the truth would cost you more in the short term? The those are not abstract decisions. That is where the trust account moves. And one of the things Edelman's brand trust work makes clear is the people are not mainly responding to slogans. They're responding to relevance, responsiveness and clarity. They trust brands they actually use. When those brands make life feel more stable, more confident and easier to navigate. That maps perfectly to the hobby. The operators who are easy to buy from are usually the ones who make people feel safe. So if you're listening to this, you run a shop Consignment Business Breaks Operation Content Company Marketplace I would challenge you to do a simple trust audit this week. Look at discovery. When someone finds you for the very first time, do they understand what you do and what happens next? Look at expectation. Do people know what you can and cannot do? Look at recommendation. Are you actually guiding them towards the right decision or the nearest sale? Look at communication. Maybe the most important part. Are customers informed before they ask? Look at issue resolution. When something goes wrong, do you protect the relationship? Look at follow up. Do they still matter after the transaction is done? That is the work. And the brutal truth here is you can absolutely making make money while losing trust. A lot of people do. The problem is that eventually the bill comes due and when it does, it usually comes due in slower repeat business, weaker word of mouth, more customer friction, lower forgiveness, higher support burden, and a reputation that starts working against you instead of for you. Transactions create revenue. Trust creates durability. If you build enough trust, the next transaction becomes easier because the relationship already did part of the selling for you. I think the best way to make this real is through somebody who is actually living in it. And I would recommend, if you haven't already, make sure you check out the episode of Passion and profession from this last week with Mike at MC Sports Cards and we talked all about relationship building and trust. And the reason why I brought Mike in is because he runs a very strategic business that provides a lot of needs for high end sellers looking to consign their cards on ebay. A lot of money transacting. But there's not another individual in this space who even before I met Mike, had nice things to say about Mike and his business in the trust that he has created. This is why Mike from MC Sports Cards really stood out to me so much. Because the lesson from that story is not just that honesty matters. The lesson is that trust is built in repetitions. Small ones, unsexy ones. The kind of interactions most people forget to value because they do not look like a growth strategy on the surface. What hit me, the first thing from Mike's story is that the relationship came before the service, before the systems got better, before the process got more scalable, before the business became more structured. People already knew how Mike behaved and what he believed in. They had dealt with him, they had traded with him. They had watched how he handled conversations around money. They had watched whether he tried to crush every deal. And because of that, trust existed before the formal consignment relationship did. And I think that's huge because in consignment, a customer is not just buying a product from you, they are handing over an asset and trusting you with judgment. That is different level of emotional and financial responsibility than a normal retail transaction. They are trusting how you price, how you communicate, how you list, how you advise, how you handle the moments when the easy answer might not be the best answer for them. And one of the strongest parts of Mike's story was his approach to fairness. Not fantasy fairness, operator fairness. Trying to be fair deals over and over again instead of trying to win every transaction. Because here's what a lot of people miss. You can win a negotiation and still lose the relationship. You can get the card today and lose trust. That would have sent you a much bigger card or collection six months from now. That is where people cap themselves. They optimize for deal margin and ignore relationship equity. Mike's story points in the other direction. Fair deals became proof, proof became confidence. Confidence becomes bigger submissions. Bigger submissions become a business. That is what trust compounds actually means. It's not one giant heroic moment. It is hundreds of small moments where someone learns how you behave when there is money involved. The second thing that stood out is the systems question. Because every growing hobby company runs into this. As you scale, what gets automated and what stays human. MC Sports Cards evolved out of text messages and Instagram communication into better systems reporting payout data and automation. But the point was not to remove the human relationship. The point was to automate low value friction and preserve high value judgment. That's good framework. If the update can be answered in a few seconds. Receive started, shipped, paid current status, that is probably belongs in a system. But if the question is should I sell now? What platform is best? Should I grade first? Is this the right time to Move this card. Should I keep this and wait? That is where trust lives. That is where being human still matters. The third thing is maybe the most important. Mike talked about times when a major card might be better served somewhere else. Think about how rare that is, because that is the exact moment where a lot of operators expose themselves. The big card comes in, the commission is sitting there, the revenue opportunity is obvious, and the trusted operator says, I appreciate you asking us, but if I were you, I would move this another way. And that's discipline. And to me, that is one of the clearest definitions of an operator in this space. Someone who can say no to revenue. That threatens the relationship. That is not a weakness, that is a strength. That is what long term thinking sounds like when it is applied under pressure. And the last part of Mike's story that matters is competence. This issue says this directly. Trust is not only built through being nice, it is built through knowing what the heck you're talking about. That should be obvious, but in this hobby it gets missed all the time. Collectors do not only want honesty, they want informed honesty. They want someone who understands categories, timing, language, platform fit, when a football card should be moved and when it should be weight. Understands whether the card in front of them needs a different strategy. That is why the best operators usually combine warmth with judgment. Not one or the other, but both. And this brings me to the conversation I had recently with Grant Patterson of Total Sports Cards and Collectibles at the Columbus Card Fest. What makes this conversation relevant to me is not just the fact that Grant owns a shop. It is that Total Sports Cards is a modern hobby business. It is a family run shop founded in 2020 in the physical locations in Ontario. And the business that spans sports cards, Pokemon and other trading card category supplies collectibles and online retail. That means the business sits right in the middle of what a lot of operators are dealing with now. Multiple categories, customer trust, local reputation, online expectations and the pressure to grow without losing what made people come back in the first place. And Columbus Card Fest itself is a good example of where the hobby is headed. The 2026 event was set up as a major Midwest show at the Greater Columbus Convention center with hundreds of dealer tables and a broad mix of sports cards, Pokemon, tcg. And that is not just a meetup. That is live operating environment where reputation, presentation and trust all compressed in a very short time window. So what I want to tell you to listen for in this conversation is very simple. What still needs to feel personal in a modern card shop and what can be systematic and what actually brings people back. So here is Grant. Let's kick it to the conversation. All right. We are here recording at the Columbus Card Fest in a icebox. That's how I'm describing it. But it's a pretty cool view. Trying to paint the picture for everyone out there listening. You can see a lot of space, which is good in a ton of tables. And wanted to jump on the opportunity to talk to some people that were setting up at the show, building real businesses inside the hobby. And I'm excited to be joined by Grant Grant GP Sports Cards on Instagram, Total Sports. First time we're meeting via Ryan Johnson, the Ultimate Connector. So I figured let's talk about what you're doing and let's have some fun. What are your first. I guess, what are your first impressions of Columbus Card Fest? I know we're recording before it started, but what do you think so far? It looks great. The venue is very spacious, a lot of vendors. I'm super excited. One of our. It's our first show for us of the year, so crossing the border and seeing some new faces for the first time. It's always exciting and it looks like a great venue. Really, really big. So excited. Excited for the week. Has it always been working in cards for you? Was there ever a corporate job or a job before doing what you're doing now? Uh, yes and no. I had a slight stunt with fire inspection because I wanted to be a firefighter. This is before sort of the COVID boom and everything went crazy. So I was always a collector growing up. And it was one of those things where I was like, if I could get a job where I could work, you know, part time and then still do my cards on the side and still get to enjoy it. That's always was the goal. So I worked fire inspection for a few months. Uh, that was right before the COVID boom. And so right when that happened, just, you know, shifted focus and it went from firefighter to, wait, hold on, I can do this full time and. And could actually make a career out of it. So it's amazing how many people have a story about COVID and this. My show started during COVID So many people decided to go all in during COVID Yeah, obviously that was like an atypical time and it was exceptional. And it's fun because it kind of lives in hobby folklore. But I also think it was a memor time because there were so many people starting businesses for you. Outside of everyone being online, everyone buying everything at crazy prices. What were signals to you that you were like, this is something that I could be doing as my full time job. Yeah. So when, before COVID like I was still young, still in university. So it was something that I was juggling on the side and, you know, built. Built the business to a point where I could see it being something even without the COVID boom. I was, I was going to pursue it and just sort of see how, how it goes. Because the collecting aspect as well as being a business side, that's something I always battle is like I'm a true collector at heart. And when, you know, when I make money on cards, I just cycle it back into cards. So that's, that was my problem. And then so sort of came like a point where it's like, okay, you got to take the business side and invest in the future. And so I started to do that just before the COVID I could see myself, you know, pursuing it and building sort of like an inventory for a shop. But then really when that, that Covid boom happened, that was like the time I think everyone, every collector who had like a dream of being a shop owner or being a business owner in this industry sort of got that push during, during COVID So yeah, that was, that was the determining factor for me. So I saw I was going to your content and we're going to get into content and your perspective on it. But you said something there of like kind of the division between being a collector and being a business owner. And I, I sense like it's probably a struggle at times where it's like, you know, the right business decision is to move the cards if there's interest, although you want to keep them maybe in your collection. I saw a video of some guy at some show walking up to your table with two crazy, crazy Crosby patches. And obviously it was a massive deal, I think $80,000. But like, like talk about that example in that moment that happens. And I feel like that's a big moment because you collect him, but you have to make certain business decisions. Like how do you separate collector and business owner in instances like that. Yeah. So that, that's like, those are the type of moments that like, keep me going and super excited for every show because you never know what's going to walk up. Like, you know, we, we do the same do things every single week over and over again. But the thing that's great about a card show when you get out and you're not just surfing the web, is you have a collector that has had that car for 20 years and you never know what's going to walk up to your booth or what you're going to find on the show floor. That's the exciting part for me. And you know, I battle that all the time because I always said in one of my videos is like, I don't have a house, but I got my cards because I bought one of these Gretzky cards for hundreds of thousands of dollars and I haven't bought a house yet. I mean, it's just like I sort of am still living on that like childhood. Like, you know, now we got like, you know, business money where it's like I can factor this into my business as well and do what I love and collect these cards that I've always dreamed and inspired to own. So I battle that all the time. When someone walks up and they make an offer on a card that like I said, oh, this is in my collection, it's like, well, I know for the business is the best choice is to sell this card and invest it. So I typically, the way I like to do it, I still think hockey is such an undervalued smart and market. So I battle that all the time. But I really care about where the card goes and it goes to a good home. A lot of the deals that I do nowadays from these cards from my collection are, are finding guys that have been, you know, asking me for years or they've been wanting that car that's missing in their collection and that's when I typically sell those big pieces. And that's the collector side that I value most. Maybe like, let's spend a minute talking about hockey and obviously like where you're, you're located. It's like prime hockey territory. I look at prices, I try to compare and contrast and obviously like hockey cards are a lot cheaper than, you know, high end basketball. It, it's like a huge difference. Like I collect wrestling, so it's, I collect some football too. I collect football. So it's like I'm always looking at these divisions but like as someone who collects primarily hockey, as someone who's building a business around hockey, like what sort of opportunity do you see in hockey cards that people who maybe aren't collecting hockey cards don't see? Yeah, like I, I've, I've been saying for the last, you know, year or so is, you know, you look at some of these other sports like basketball, football, and their top cards are, are crazy and you could take a fraction of that price. I'm talking 5, 10% of the goats, you know, gretzky is the undisputed goat for for hockey. And like you look at him in comparison to Jordan, you're talking 5% of what Jordan cards go for. And you can get some of the best cards of Gretzky and some of the hockey biggest hockey cards out there. And we've seen a few guys, you know, look the way of hockey and, you know, they're spending in the basketball and football terms of it, you know, might be a case hit equivalent, but you're getting one of the best hockey cards on the market. So as someone who, you know, buys and sells hockey all the time, I think the sport is great and I think it's growing fast and I think that's the biggest impact on the market of hockey. I think there's a lot of opportunity there just for growth in comparison to some of the other sports. Yeah, those moments of where there's growth potential and interest, those are exciting categories and lanes to dive into. When you're thinking about your business, there's a I from my observations, there's a lot going on and a lot of different probably priorities that kind of take up your time and you have to like specialize your time, maybe talk about like your business, how it's broken down, where and where you spend your time. Yeah. So we've expanded. Now we're actually working on a new store for Pokemon and becoming a play store. That's just a whole nother side of the industry that is just grown and expanded. A lot of my time is focused on hockey breaks. We do online breaks three, four days a week. And that's our main revenue source where we're online on YouTube and we're breaking open the boxes. It's just such a great way to reach customers that they don't have to walk in the store. They can just open up their phone and boom, they're in a break. And it's very easy to get the customers the product that way. But also we have the in store side. I'm typically more focused on the brakes and then the store. We have our managers and our employees that sell the boxes out of the store. So sort of just overlooking that as well as running the breaks. I want to talk about just like the operations behind the brakes. But maybe like I don't get a chance to talk to many people in your position about this. And mostly when I do, it's about like relationship with fanatics. I would imagine, like for you, it's relationship with upper deck, especially breaking hockey. Like what's your mindset and how like how do you think about that relationship, like, with Upper Deck and with distribution in order to, like, make sure that you constantly have products so you can get up and do what you're doing on a regular basis? Yeah, that's the, that's the. For anyone that's coming into the industry and, and for those who don't know, that's the most important thing, especially as any shop. I'm sure I've since that. I've had probably 10 conversations since I've been here, and every one of them that's come up. So. So the way, the way hockey works is a little different than Tops and Panini, because in Canada, like, we have a few stores that have exclusive rights with like, Tops and Panini and they have the contracts. But like my store, we don't get any Tops hobby. So we really rely on Upper Deck as our main, you know, product incoming and obviously the Pokemon and the tcg. So the way for Upper Deck in Canada works. There's two distributors in Canada only. So you got to build your relationship with these two distributors. And of course, like any, any distributor in the US as well for Tops or Panini, you got to take the good with the bad. So we're taking a lot of bad product to get our good allocation up. And it's sort of just a cycle. So you have to, you can't just order, you know, five cases of the worst product and ask for 100 cases of good product. So that's what people don't see is when, you know, we're breaking some of these best products, they're like, oh my gosh, how'd they get that many cases? Well, we got 50 cases of the bad stuff that isn't moving as well. So there's give and take there. And that's just the relationship that you build with the distributor. Right? Like, you have to take care of. Of them and they'll scratch your back as well. So it seems like there's a very much a long game approach here with getting in new product, doing breaks. Some of your breaks, I would imagine, like first week of the cup, when that drops or whatever, those are huge moments for you and your business. But then there's some other products that come in that you have to take that you know isn't going to. Aren't going to perform well and you might not make as much or lose money on it. Like, how do as an operator, like, what is your mindset around that, like, long game approach with all the products coming in and not getting too down, if 10 cases of a product that you spent a lot of money on where you lost half your money. Like, how do you think about that? Yeah, so it's, it's a, it's a, a dicey battle because I've actually made the worst decision on that end for the last few years because 21, 22 and 22, 23 for hockey was like really bad rookie crops. Um, so it was one of those things where I, I held most of that product hoping that these rookies would explode and, and go up and the product just continues to go down. So it's like, you know, you're looking there and, and in your inventory system, it's just like, oh, that's discounted 20% this weekend. And a couple of months ago it's like it's 40% now. It's like it just keeps going down on some of the bad rookie years. But then you have a rookie year like celebrity where my mindset changed because I had so much inventory carried over from those previous years. And I was like, I don't want to hold any celebrating year. And that was before he exploded. So we're talking like wax5xing for celebrating year that I move like out the door. I was like, okay, $150 a box. I want as many cases out the door. Blow it out, get rid of it. And then, you know, four or five months later, this guy explodes. And those are $600 boxes. So it's like you never know what, what these rookies hold. And that's why I took the risk in 21, 22 and 22, 23. Just when we opened up, we were pushing bigger numbers and you just never know with. With the prospects which one's going to take off and create the buzz. Have those experience changed your approach on each year, new new products? Like, do you have a plan now or is it still kind of wait and see evaluation of your evaluation of rookie class? What could happen? Like, what's changed since you've taken those lumps? Yeah. So learning that now it's, it's more so managing my inventory and getting to a number that I'm happy with, keeping it aside. So Della brain year was a good lesson for me because I sold like every single box that I had. And then I was just sitting there like, oh, the reorder is a little too expensive to. To get in back. So I now I have like a number of cases that I put aside for each product in case that rookie explodes versus, like the first few years where I was like keeping like 75% of my inventory and just hoping that it would go back up and then celebrating a year doing the exact opposite where I sold 100% of my inventory. So now it's like I have a good number where a percentage of the allocation that we get, we put aside. And that's sort of like our investment in that product is the same. True for singles in terms of inventory turn. Like, are you, like, how do you think about if there are interest for certain cards? But in your mind you're like, I, I want to hold this for a little bit, but there's interest right now. Like, how do you think about that? Do you hold certain cards or do you take the cash that's available now knowing that it might go down in the back end? Like, how do you. How do you work with singles? Yeah, so that's, that's a great question because most of the stuff that we deal in, obviously we buy collections and that sort of stuff, so we take a big mix. But I personally myself, for, for cars that I hold, it's always vets, legends. Those are the stable players that you don't see fluctuate from time to time. Like, I can put those cards away for six months and know that they won't go down and they might appreciate in value. The rookies are where, you know, you're pretty much gambling on that player's performance, and those are, are very volatile. So those will try to sell very quick. When we buy like a rookie card, even Celebrini, if I think he's going to do well, you just never know. So anything that's, you know, prospecting on these players, we move it and turn it over fast. And then a lot of the other stuff that's vets, legends, it's sort of like finding the right buyer. So you have to hold those cards for a longer amount of time to find the right buyer to purchase it and then carry that over. So at the same time, I do think there's a lot of investment potential. So when we buy a collection, there might be like the top four or five pieces that I put away for myself that I think, hey, these are going to be going up in value over the next couple of years. What, what's the real job for you when someone comes to you with a collection or you're going and visiting some place? Like, what is the real work that you're doing? So comping out the collection and also, like, you know, just creating a great atmosphere for people when they come into our store or whether we travel to Them, because that's a. That's a big part of, you know, people moving their collections. A lot of people pay out the same rate. Just how you treat people and make them feel, you know, the interaction. That's my favorite side of. Of buying collections. You know, you get to meet new people, you get to see their collecting journey and their collection and then use tacklets where, you know, depending on the collection, typically the way we do it is we break it down for the high end, the mid end, and then the low end. In a big collection where we're creating an excel sheet for them, we break down the sale values and then our payout percentages on that collection. I, you know, you see the videos of people buying collections, and it's, you know, good content, and it seems really easy, but I would imagine it's very challenging because there's emotion involved. There's. The individual owner probably thinks their cards might be worth a certain amount, and you might differ a little bit. You're not just buying one or two cards. You're buying many cards. Like, how do you. How have you gotten good at managing through all of those moments in a deal to make sure that it doesn't, you know, hit a snag and doesn't happen for sure? That's. That's one of the biggest, you know, concerns, especially traveling longer distances for collections. Whether the collector was into the breaks and he spent X amount and this collection is now worth X amount. That's. That's always a hard, you know, conversation that. That you have to have. We try to make sure the seller is sort of serious about moving their collection. We'll typically try to connect on maybe 10 of the bigger pieces in the collection, sort of get a deal done to start and then sort of work on the rest from there. And. And there's emotions there, right? Like, people are also letting go of what they built over the last few years and. And worked really hard on. So that's, again, my favorite part of. Of the collecting journey is seeing those new pieces and the pieces that collectors have spent all this time and effort working on and sort of. They want to pass it on and get it to new homes and new collectors. And that's. That's why I'm grateful for working. Working with so many people on that. I want to go back to the breaking, and I think there's this perception around breaking, especially from the audience. Like, oh, you know, we just get on an app, we hop into a room, we buy into our player or team, and then we watch the break. Happening and we get our cards. But I don't think a lot of people dig into like the behind the scenes and how challenging it is to not only streamline, build out efficient operations and make sure that you're not wasting time and making sure people get their cards right. Like how did you get good at building the operations behind your braking company so that you people weren't getting their cards or people weren't having bad experiences or you weren't wasting a bunch of time? Like how did you get good at that? Yes, that, you know, trial and error. But I started off the way we break on YouTube is through our own website. So a lot of the platforms these days are much easier to use. Sort of like the streaming sites where you just, you know, click live and you're ready to go. We're manually creating all of our breaks and our photos and everything's created by our own end. And I started doing it sort of like a one man operation back in the day. You know, it was, it was a lot of sleepless nights where it's like you're up and sorting and then you're sleeving top loading and shipping. So I was a one man operation for, for quite a few years. And then obviously we hired the shipping team and there's always going to be, you know, the odd mistake when you're shipping out thousands of packages. The biggest thing is just taking care of your customers if you do make a mistake, making sure that they're happy. Now we have for the operations side of things we have cameras overhead to help the breaker. So if they make a break mistake on say break number 4800 we have like a note under the camera where that we can go back to that exact moment where that sorter was sorting that team and know exactly where their mistake was. That's, that's a big part of our business that has helped because at the same time, at the end of the day when you're shipping out these cards, you don't know what point the error came. Was it in the mail, was it in the shipping process, packaging? So having camera footage over that whole process really helps it. I think one of the things that I learned from talking with a lot of people building businesses in this hobby is like that inflection point where you realize your time is better served doing another thing. So, and you can't do it all yourself, so you gotta bring in some support. And support isn't free. That costs money. Like obviously I can't imagine running a high volume, profitable breaking company as A in one individual for too long. But maybe talk about like that decision, that decision when you realize I can't do this alone. If I want to scale, I need some support. Like how did you do that? Especially involving money and money outside of your business. For sure. The biggest part on our industry is finding people that you can trust and handle the cards with care because these are such high valued items and very important. So when I was the one man operation, it sort of got to the point where we were expanding our brand and the brakes were going to a point where we were going every other night. So I couldn't keep up with the shipping. And so that's when I started to look for like a friend that you know, could help out with the shipping because someone I wanted to trust and knew I could count on for the shipping side. So that's when I came to the point where our breaks, the demand for our brakes were outgrowing the pace that I could keep up with. So that's when we hired the shipping team and now we have three people working full time on shipping. And that's, that's the biggest part on the back end where people don't see for the breaks is, you know, you see us on camera opening up the packs. But there's hours of, hours of work that go into the packaging and the shipping side of things and you know, making sure that that all runs smoothly. What about hiring and hiring in the hobby? Like are you interested in card domain knowledge, experience, overlap of both? Like how are you being a talent scout, bringing in the right people on the team to make sure that your process continues to run, you know, better than when they, they weren't there before? Yeah, that for me that's, that's the most important part of scaling your business and growing is finding the right, you know, people that are going to help your company and grow your company. From my end, depending on the position. For someone who's like example working our store, I want someone who's in the industry and knows a lot about the products and can tell these like our customers. The best information and knowledge that I can hire is who I want working the storefront. Because I don't want just a yes man and a salesman. Like when people come in and say what's the best box? Like I want my manager to know what the products are, where's the value, steer them in the right direction, not just push, you know, any product that we need to sell. That's, that's a big thing that, you know, I always advocate for is like giving the client the best experience and the best possible result from the boxes that they're looking for and what they come in for the store and from the back end for the shipping side. You know, the way I typically do it is I want them to have a knowledge of sports, obviously the way they sort the way they handle the cards. But they don't have to be in the industry, they don't have to know that card is worth X amount because there's steps in processes where our full time manager for shipping, they know the value so they know which ones to track and that sort of stuff. But yeah, depending on the position is where I make the judgment. How do you feel about your current operation? Like are you happy with where it's at from like a people process efficiency perspective? Are you constantly evaluating saying like there are areas where we can fine tune some things. Like you've been building this since COVID like where are you at as kind of the individual in charge and running the business? How do you feel? Yeah, I think we're, we're at a very interesting point. I think we're, we're expanding and we're definitely looking to add a few more members to the team. Just again looking for the right people. Especially going in the new store, becoming a play store for tcg. It's sort of a realm that I'm not familiar with. Soon it's sort of a new territory for me where it's more so the business side versus you know, just to be in the collector and something that I love and have a passion for. Now I'm going into more so a field where it is strictly business and we're trying to hire the right people that are experts in that field to take over that side of things. So right now that's the biggest thing that we're focusing on and, and I'm looking for somebody who's like really knowledgeable in that side of the field and we'll sort of take over our TCG side. What's up everybody? I will be at Fanatics Fest this week and I'm very excited. It'll be my first Fanatics Fest. I'm excited for the cards, the experience, all the things, but I'm really going for the people. Hobby jobs exist to support the builders of the sports card industry. The shop owners, breakers, marketplace teams, content operations, tech companies, brand builders and professionals trying to turn passion into something durable. If you are going to be there and you're building something in this space, I'd love to meet with you. I Want to hear what you're working on, what you're trying to solve, what you are learning and where you think the industry is headed. That's the point of hobby jobs, to bring the operator stories into the open. If you're not going to fanatics fest, I'd still love to hear from you. Email me stackingslabsmail.com hit me up on Instagram @StackingsLabs. I am building out some really cool packages for operators, entrepreneurs, companies in this industry to start getting involved in the hobby jobs platform. Would love to hear from you. Thanks for listening. Back to the episode. I want to close out talking about content, a little content inception. As we record content, you know, you go to your page, your IG page. First thing I did was look you up when I got connected with you and saw just like reels of deals, content around hockey cards, being at shows, really good stuff. Like, I felt like I had an idea of who you were, what you do and what you're looking. Who are you're looking to help just by looking at your IG page. Like, how do you think about content in terms of your business? Like, what role does it play? And yeah, just jump in there. Yeah, for sure. Content is, is such a good avenue and, and it can change businesses nowadays. It's, it's one of the most important things for our younger generation as well. We just consume so much content, especially in this industry. It can be impactful. And from my end, it's always like a fine balance where I just want to put out as much content as I can to grow the hockey side of things. I don't think we have enough content as a hockey community for cards. I think there's a lot of growth and potential there. And now upper decks starting to do some really good things with the NHL players as well. Topps does a great job on that with baseball and football. You see those players very interactive with the sport and that just creates a whole bunch of new fans. They, you know, kids watch that and suddenly they want to pack and they want to go to their local shop. So that's a big factor in the industry now. And from my end, you know, as an investor and sort of a content creator as well, putting out the content just to, you know, educate people and make people aware that, you know, hey, hockey cars, we have some, some big cards as well and we, we have some big, big things to chase after. So just trying to grow the hockey market as a whole with that mindset and approach of like, I want to do content to Educate to grow the hockey market. Like, what signals have you seen from your repetition on, you know, producing content regularly? Like, what signals have you seen that indicate to you? Like, this should be an area where I continue to invest my time? Yeah, it's, it's been great. Like I've had a lot of people again from the basketball realm and some of the bigger sports that have, you know, turned an eye on to hockey and from one of my videos they might reach out for, for a card or be like, hey, can I get your opinion on this? I have a few people who are, are constantly asking for my guidance on where they think they should invest and, and that sort of thing. And that's, that's exciting for me. It's, it's, you know, getting new people focused on hockeys. The eyeball is sort of shifting over and excited to see. As we create the content, more and more people get interested in it. All right, I want to close out with this. We have talked about a lot of different disciplines inside of your business. We've talked about, you know, allocation, relationship management there. We've talked about operations on air personality as a breaker streamer. We've talked about content a whole lot, subject matter, expertise. There's a lot that goes into running a hobby business that I don't think many people from the outside realize. Like all the different context, switching all the different roles, like when you made the decision to, you know, leave your job and do this full time, like, was this what you were looking for? Did you understand that it was going to be this complex and I guess, like, how have you grown professionally during this experience? Yeah, for sure. I didn't think it was going to be this challenging. I, I thought it was going to be a lot easier than it looked. Just from, you know, running a one man operation out of my bedroom, I was like, oh, okay, I'll just expand these breaks and just, you know, sell the odd item in the store. And obviously a lot more than that, a lot more responsibilities. But I love it. Every single day I wake up and it doesn't feel like work. And that's the biggest thing for me is I still feel like a kid when I come to these shows and it just keeps me, keeps me excited and there's, there hasn't been a bad, a bad day. When you go to a show, it's, it's always great and it's always fun and from the operations side there's a lot to manage. But again, when you're doing what you love, it's, it doesn't feel like a job and we are at a show so I will let you get back to the table doing what you do best. But really appreciate the time. Thanks Brad. Appreciate it. I love that conversation with Grant. His hockey card inventory and collection is insane. Make sure you check him out I want to close hobby jobs by talking about hobby jobs and I want to talk about two roles from this week that I think tell us where the industry is going, not just jobs signals. The first is an operations analyst for the Pokemon vertical at Swish Breaks and the reason I like this role is that it kills a lot of hobby fantasy in a productive way. A lot of people say they want to work in the hobby. What they usually mean is they want to be around cards. This role says something different. Can you turn passion into process? Because the job is not about having opinions. Online is about managing inventory, coordinating logistics, improving fulfillment, reading the market, building reports, and helping leadership create better systems in a playbook. As the business grows, this is where a lot of value is going to get created in the next phase of this hobby. Not just by talking louder, but reducing friction, by making operations cleaner, by making fulfillment more reliable, by making inventory more accurate, by making decisions off dashboards instead of good vibes. So if you are someone who understands cards but also like systems, process excel, workflows and finding the leak and how things move, pay attention to roles like that. This is how passion becomes leverage. The second one is a web developer role at Steel City Collectibles and I love this one because it highlights something people still underrate in the hobby digital trust. Steel City describes this role around production, applications, performance, usability, security, API stability, and maintenance of system customers rely on every day. In other words, trust is not only built by the person behind the table or the person answering the dm. It is also built whether the tech works when the customer needs it to work. If the site is confusing, trust drops. If checkout is clunky, trust drops. If inventory is wrong, trust drops. This is why I keep saying the hobby is becoming more professional. Because now the edge is not just access but execution. And what these two jobs have in common is that they sit underneath the visible brand. They are not glamorous from the outside, but they are exactly the kinds of roles that make repeat business more likely. They make the business more dependable. They make the customer feel more confident. They make growth more sustainable. That is the lesson everyone wants to be seen in this hobby. Very few people want to operate. But if you build something that lasts, operations is where trust gets protected and trust is what makes the next transaction easier than the last one. Appreciate everyone for tuning in to Hobby Jobs. I am having a blast sharing my mindset perspective on the industry side. This has been reinvigorating for me as someone who has been an operator for 15 years in the tech industry. Applying some of that thinking, the infrastructure building, the go to market strategy, the messaging, the mindset into a show like this. This fills me up. Appreciate all of you following along. Make sure you subscribe to Hobby Jobs. New edition comes out every Tuesday on the stacking slab Stub stack link is in the show notes. Happy building. Take care. Talk to you soon. Sam.