Hobby Jobs: When Doing the Right Thing Costs Millions with Noah Dock of BCW Supplies

Foreign. Welcome back to Hobby Jobs here on the Stacking Slabs Network. I am Brett, Excited to be here. Excited to continue to share some meaningful conversations that I had with operators building cool things in the sports card industry at the national in the card ladder booth. I'm spending some time this week going back and listening to those chats. I almost don't know what was said because it was all a blur. So much going on having those chats in person. Stimulation overload, people passing the national was quite the event, but the result here for Stacking Slabs is being able to deliver some of these conversations to you. The busy builder or aspiring builder in the sports card industry got a lot of good feedback at the national about the Hobby Job stream. I'm having a blast building this out. I think it's needed, I think it's wanted and I'm going to continue to deliver great operator conversations. You're going to hear one today. Make sure you hit the follow button. Tell a damn friend if you're not already subscribe to Hobby Jobs, the newsletter. New one comes out every Tuesday. Link is in the show notes. It is free. There is a side of the sports card industry that receives most of the attention. The cards, the sales, the record prices, the people building audiences, the activity taking place on the show Fleer Then there's another side. The companies creating the products, systems and services that allow the hobby to function. You do not see much of that work, but you see the result. You place a card in a penny sleeve, you slide it in a top loader, you protect it inside a magnetic holder, you store it in a box. You rarely stop to think about the company that manufactured those products, transported them, stocked them and make sure they were available when you needed them. That is part of what makes my conversation with Noah Doc so useful. Noah is the CFO at BCW Supplies. Noah and I had a chance to get to know each other over the last year. I spent some time at BCW Supplies as hq. BCW is one of those companies that has been part of the collecting experience for so long that collectors tend to view its products as part of the furniture. They're just always there. That familiarity can hide the scale of the operation behind them. BCW employs more than a hundred employees. The company works with manufacturers, distributors, card shops, breakers, dealers, and you. The collector. Noah shares one number during our conversation that helps put the size of the business into context. BCW moves around 2 million 100 count packs of top loaders each month. That is 2 million top loaders every month. That is not a Small hobby business, shipping orders from a Zebra room. It is part of the infrastructure of the sports card industry. Noah joined BCW after working in finance, private equity, financial services and a his family's pond business. He did not spend his career trying to land a job in sports cards. He was looking for the right company and that distinction matters. There are people listening to hobby jobs who want to leave another industry and work in the hobby. Some of them have spent years building experience in finance, sales, marketing, operations, technology or customer service. They look at the energy inside the space and wonder if there's a place for them. There is. But I think people approach this question from the wrong direction. They start with their love of cards. They think the passion should be enough to earn them a role. It's not. Passion can create interest in. It cannot replace the ability to solve a business problem. Noah did not join BCW because he knew more about cards than everyone else. By his own admission, he entered the national feeling like he had less hobby knowledge than most people in the room. BCW hired him because he understood finance, operations and how to help a company scale. He brought skills that the business needed. His connection to collectibles gave those skills more meaning. That is the combination people should be searching for. What have you learned outside the hobby that a company inside the hobby needs? Maybe you understand how to build sales process. Maybe you know how to manage inventory. Maybe you have spent a decade recruiting people. Maybe you know how to improve customer retention. Maybe you have experience running events, leading a team or managing cash flow. Those skills do not lose their value when you enter sports cards. They become your advantage. The hobby does not need more people who are excited around cards. It needs people who can take that excitement and turn it into dependable work. Noah's decision to join BCW was also based on something deeper than the role. He wanted to work for a family owned business. He wanted access to people making decisions. He wanted the chance to help scale a business. He wanted to work with people whose values matched his own. The last point became the center of our conversation. Companies talk about core values all the time. They place them on office walls. They add them to job descriptions. They repeat them during company meetings. Most employees learn how to ignore them. The problem is not the idea of core values. The problem is that many companies treat them as statements instead of standards. A value only matters when it changes a decision. It matters when it influences who gets hired, who gets promoted, when to walk away from revenue. It matters when following it. It cost the business something. BCW face one of those decisions during A period of tariffs. The company added a surcharge to its customer orders. It needed the money to continue operating under the increased cost. BCW later received tariff refunds. The company then had a choice. It could keep the money. Its customers had already paid the surcharge. Most of them had moved on. There was no reason to expect that money back. BCW returned millions of dollars to more than 5,000 customers or 4,000 customers. Some received a few hundred dollars. For a large corporation, that amount might disappear in a spreadsheet. For a card shop operating out of a hundred square foot storefront, a few hundred dollars matters. BCW returned the money because its first core value is to do the right thing. That is where the phrase stops being corporate language. The decision has had a cost. The cost gave the value meaning. It also created something no marketing campaign can manufacture, and that's trust. A customer will remember the company that returned the money when it had the option to keep it. They will remember who protected the relationship when no one was forcing them to do it. This matters across the sports card industry because our market runs on trust. Collectors trust sellers to describe cards with accuracy. Customers trust breakers to run their rooms with integrity. Partners trust each other to honor agreements. Employees trust leaders to make decisions that patch auto they've been told. Once the trust breaks, every interaction gets harder. When trust grows, the business gains room to operate. The challenge is making sure those values exist across the company and not only inside the executive team. Noah talks about communication as one of his main responsibilities of leadership. He says the CEO has to become the chief repeating officer. That phrase stuck with me. Leaders often think they have communicated something because they said it. Once they announced a new direction during a company meeting. They wrote the values in an employee handbook. They sent an email. They just assume everyone understands. That is not communication. That's introduction. People understand what a company values after they hear it repeated and see it applied. They see someone promoted because that person lived the values. They see someone corrected because their behavior violated them. They watch a company return money to customers because keeping it would conflict with what the company claims to believe. The repetition gives people the language. The decisions give the language credibility. This is how culture forms. This applies to companies with 100 employees. It also applies to a business or a person building a business alone. If you run a shop, produce content, sell cards, or provide a service, you are making decisions that show people what you value. Your audience is paying attention. They notice how you handle mistakes. They notice whether you keep your word or not. They notice how you treat people when there's no public reward attached. A brand is not what you claim during the easy moments. It is a pattern created by your decisions when something is at stake. This is one of the reasons I wanted to record hobby jobs conversations at the National. The show Fleer displays the visible output of the industry. Behind every booth there are people making decisions about inventory, cash hiring, customer service, partnerships, growth. Those decisions determine whether the company we see today will still be serving collectors years from now. Passion matters in this industry. You can feel it through the conversation with Noah. He was attending his first national, walking the Fleer in a game worn Verne Fleming jersey. Go Pacers. Trying to understand the scale of the hobby, meet the people building it. But passion cannot stand alone. A durable hobby business needs people who know how to operate. It needs values that survive financial pressure. It needs leaders willing to repeat the message until everyone understands needs employees who bring skills from outside the hobby and apply them to problems in front of them. The question is not only whether you love cards enough to work in the industry. The better question is what can you help build? Noah spent his first year at BCW answering that question. Here's our conversation from the national in the card ladder booth. Coming at you. All right, we are back and I'm excited to share this conversation with all of you. Most of our conversations have been private. Been to the BCW headquarters. It's crazy. I got a chance to see you, meet with you over the last several months. You're sponsoring wrestling card takeover, which we're very thankful for. I'm joined by Noah Doc, CFO at BCW Supplies. Noah, you're sitting here in a Vern Fleming Pacers jersey, which is making my childhood heart melt. Don't forget it's a game worn Vern Fleming jersey. I wore this specifically expecting to be on camera today, so I'm a little disappointed. Yu-Gi-Oh well, you can't one-of-one them all if I guess. This is your first national from what I gather. What do you make of this experience so far? I mean, like talk about drinking from the fire hose and just kind of seeing the hobby like I'm. When I came in, I went straight to the, I flew into, flew into o' Hare this morning, came straight to the BCW booth, Tribute my stuff for the weekend or for the week, however long I'm here, and then just went out to explore, went out to meet people, went out to look at what the space looks like and it's like just really inspiring seeing everybody carrying around their cases, full of slabs, carrying around their cards, seeing the buy, the sell, just, just Seeing how many people are passionate about the, about the space. So I mean, I think what I'm, what I'm really just blown away at is the scale, like the scale of this thing is just, and not just the national in and of itself, but the people, the scale of people that are passionate about the hobby. And it's just, I mean it's inspiring. It's part. One of the reasons why I wanted to talk with you on this is because you are newer to this space as it being a space where you're working in professionally. So you're like observing the craziness and you're trying to figure out what customers want, I guess maybe like set the stage. What were you doing before you worked at vcw? What kind of roles were you in, what kind of companies? So, so I'm actually going to take a, take a little bit of a deeper step back and, and almost like look back to my upbringing a little bit. So you're going to get the longer version here. So I, you know, like, like many guys in their 40s, I collected cards as a kid and loved it and it was, and it was really fun and, but, but you know, a lot of my background and you know, this was, this was actually my college essay for my liberal arts education. I know you can appreciate the liberal arts education, of course. So my family owns a pawn shop and so I got really, I got really connected to seeing people being passionate about things and, and in a pawn shop a lot of the business that we do is taking people's prized possessions and giving them short term loans. And these are, you know, these are intrinsic value things. Like to me as the pawn shop owner, which I, you know, I, I operated as the operating partner for a while later in my career. But you know, to me I look at it and I think about how I can commoditize this and what I can make off of it. No different than, you know, I see a lot of these kids that are running around, I call them kids, but you know, we got people in their teenagers running around here moving and shaking. Yes. And they're buying stuff, they're buying low and selling high. And I, and I love it and I love it and that's what I was doing. But on the other side, which is, I think where you and I have connected so much is the passion behind it. And so in the pond, in the pawn industry you have people, our ideal customer are people that, that need money and they have something of value. And I can quantify it and say that this thing is worth, you know, a thousand dollars or $2,000, but to them it is priceless. So that's where I came up. I was working there when I was in high school. I worked summer jobs there in college after I finished college and you know, winter, long, long about way. I've, I've done the financials there and the bookke since I was in college. So you know, 20 some odd years and then, you know, I, I worked there. I, I was approached by my uncle who was the managing partner and asked to come in and help operate and run the business when he stepped away. And I did that for five or six years and just got, you know, a deep understanding of a lot of, you know, a lot of different fields and a lot of different items. And so that's always been kind of in my space, but ended up, you know, so this is the question that you asked My, my career, that's certainly part of my career, but it's almost consider it predating my career. So when I decided to move away from the business, I went back and I got my MBA and focused in finance and operations and, and when I got done, I, I joined a private equity firm and worked there for a while and I, I kind of spun that and ended up going and working as the director of finance at a financial advisory firm and just, you know, kind of Beckett up traits along the way. And when it was time to move on, I really was focused on finding the right place and the right place that was going to be the next step for my career. And it wasn't so much about. It actually had zero to do with collectibles. It had nothing to do with collectibles. It was about finding the right place with the right core values and the right people and you know, not to take big hits at, you know, these large corporations that are here. Like, I one-of-one name some of the ones that you work with directly, Brett, but, but we'll say like Upper Deck or you know, or tops or, or any of these large companies that are here. I mean those are corporate entities and, and they're going to operate like a corporation as well they should. They one-of-one that to their shareholders. But I really wanted to be in a small privately held business. I wanted to help scale the business and grow the business. And I wanted to work with people that had really strong core values. And so I went around on kind of a talking circuit and chatted with people and got introduced to folks and that led me, I got introduced to the, to the owners of bcw and it Just so happened that they were looking for someone with my skill set and we really hit it off and it just happened to be in a really awesome, hot growing industry that has just limitless potential. That something that I actually knew something about. But certainly, you know, I would say that I'm probably In the bottom 1% of knowledge here in this room, in this giant national room. So I love the flyby of the, the career. The thing that I've noticed a lot, especially on at the executive level. I have gotten a lot of conversation and questions based on this content from very successful executives in other industries that have kicked ass in other industries for a very long time and are looking at this space, looking at the sports card industry in the hobby, in this moment, they're like, this is insane. Like the infrastructure is forming, like there's opportunities out there. Like, should I leave what I'm doing my comfortable job that I've been successful at and go like plug in and work in a space that I care about deeply and maybe lead a sales team or maybe lead a finance team. Like you're, you are someone who you know is working in an executive level position who maybe that wasn't the plan and you weren't, you didn't have those questions, you just ended up with that, that way. But like, like, what would you say to that individual about like the opportunity like right now to plug into a business in this space that's building products or has services for collectors who are, you know, running around at the national. So I'm going to, I'm going to preface this by saying that you're speaking to a CFO and CFOs are generally speaking, very risk averse. I do a lot of networking, I do a lot of running in traffic and playing in space, so to speak. I love meeting new people, I love having coffee with people, I love just chatting with people and hearing people's stories. And ultimately I would really say that, you know, whether people are taking a leap or anything else, you've got to be happy with where you are. And so if you're happy in your current role, you know me as a risk averse person. You know, I don't know, like in my previous role, like I helped build a company, like I helped scale it. Like we went 3x in 5 or 6 years. I did what I came there to do and I, I was bored. And so in terms of like taking that leap, I think it in my opinion, risk averse. You've got to judge your happiness level. And so you've Got to take, you know, how happy am I today? And so if you think that you can take a large step and add to your happiness, I think you need to take that step. And if you're happy in your job, by the same token, like, you know, as a risk averse person, I don't know, but I mean the space is so fun. Like, there are so many people, there are so many people out here. Like today I'm walking around with one of our sales guys and he is introducing me to salespeople at Upper Deck and CGC and you know, various breakers, big breakers in the industry and like, like, and I'm asking these folks, like, hey, how many people work at your company? And they're like, oh, you know, like a hundred. And I'm like, what? You have that many people? Like, like, I am just blown away at the amount of profit that this industry is generating right now. And I mean, it's inspiring. Ever since you've been in your role for about a year, like, what has surprised you most about working in this space? Has there been any moments where you've just like, you've stopped and been like, man, I can't believe this is happening or there's this much money here? Like, what stands out to you? Honestly, like, when I think about the space, I think about the people. From my business background, like, I learned, I learned to kind of simplify businesses. I come into our business. So bcw, we make supplies. We make supplies for collectors so we can help them build their collection, we can help protect, store and display their items. And that's what we do. And we do it really well. But ultimately I like to, I mean, that's our, that's what it says on our website, that's what's in our, our mission statement. But how I look at our business specifically is I look at what we're really good at. We're good at really doing things at scale. We run through about 2 million top loaders every month. Sorry, we run through 2 million packs of 100 counts of top loaders every month. Not to mention all the other different variants of those top loaders. So we're really good at doing things to scale. And we could pivot into anything and do it at scale and bring in, connect manufacturers and ideas and build products and distribute them and do it really well. And that's what we do. That's what we do well. What I take away from this space is the people. The people are awesome, people are passionate. You and I connected, we've connected now probably like five or six times now. And like, I mean like, the people are real here. They want to have real conversations, you know. You know, I'm walking around with our sales guy and he's meeting all these guys, all these people that he hasn't seen in a year. He just had a little girl about eight months ago. And like, and just seeing how people care about each other, there's real passion here that, you know, in the financial services industry, in the private equity world, you know, it's very much, I'm not going to say it's dog eat dog or anything, but like it's, it's more clear cut. It's like we're here to make money. We're going to make money, we're going to move on. And I know that in this room there are plenty of people here that are here to make money by. No, and that's not a knock on them. But like, I mean, if I had to, like, if I'm looking around at the people that are walking around in this room right now, like, if I had to say anything about them, it's like they're all passionate about stuff. I, on my way over here, I chatted with the guy who, who had like a vintage clothing stand and he had all these sweaters from like the 1920s and 30s and like wool football jerseys. And I'm like, man, I, I haven't seen that many things like this. And he's like, well, you know why? It's because it took me two days to set this exhibit up. And that's because I'm passionate about it and I love it. And you know, you mentioned that you're able to make decisions quickly and scale. Like those decisions, like, what is it about what is in place at BCW that affords you the opportunity to be able to do that? So we're, I mean, we're a lean company. We're, we're family run. We're family run. We're on our second second generation of owners at our company right now. They are passionate about the hobby. But you know, there are plenty of businesses out there that are first, second, third, fourth generation and they're passionate about their businesses. But. And they're lean too. We make quick decisions because we've, we've really invested. We are our owners. They invest in the infrastructure, they invest in the hobby. We just, we actually just gave back millions of dollars to our customers in tariff refunds. We actually haven't even like published this really. So first to hear right here. There we go. But we we had charged during the tariffs last year. We charged. We charged our customers a tariff surcharge because we needed to, you know, really remain solvent and operational. And. And we applied for tariff refunds when they. When they were ruled unconstitutional. And we gave that money back. We give that money back to all our customers because it was the right thing to do. How does a decision like that get made internally? 100% on core values. 100%. We believe in doing the right thing, and we got that money back. We got that money back from the government, and. And the right thing to do is to give it all right back to our customers. What do you think that moment means for the customer and the relationship? When they get the call or the email or the check from bcw, that is just money that they thought they'd given up. Like, what does that do for the brand? I wish that I could say that we called them all, but we gave it back to 4,000 customers. Okay, so. So. So it was an email. It was an email. But, I mean, we've gotten just crazy. I mean, we've gotten people that have reached out to us, and I mean, they got back 200 bucks, 300 bucks. And these are small businesses. These are little tiny businesses that have, you know, 800 square feet and on Main street and, you know, whatever town, usa. And like, they're like, you guys gave that, like, it means the world to these folks. And. And I mean, we. It wasn't a hard decision. It was an easy decision. Like, it. We look at our core values, and that's our number one core value. And, you know, a lot of companies write their core values on the wall, and that's all it is. I know you're a corporate guy. Yep. Background. And like. And like, I've. I've been a corporate guy. And like, they write it up there and they, you know, they. They preach it all at the company meetings, but, you know, it's not really real unless it costs you something. Yu-Gi-Oh So at a company I work for, a big core value company. And it was literally, I had the GM of my business unit come up to me one day. He. He lift that lived out of town came by, stopped by my desk. He said, brett, you're doing a good job. And I said, you know, I met. I was junior. My career, it meant a lot to me. And he said, if you embrace just one of our core values and you live by it, and you make every decision off of it, every day you're going, the sky's the limit for me. For you I remember thinking about that, and the core value was think like an owner. That was the one I took. Take ownership of your decisions. And it sounds kind of cheesy and stuff, but, you know, it was on the website, all this stuff. But, like, I think back on that time and then I think about just like running a business, and it's like, I'm not sure. Without embracing a core value in a corporate setting, I would really be serious about what I'm doing today. So, like, I say all that to say like, core values. They might seem cheesy and corporate jargon, but, like, what are the positive ramifications that take place when the whole business rallies around it? I mean, we're, we're still implementing all this stuff. It's new. It's, it's. I mean, I was brought in because of my experience implementing a lot of this stuff, but, I mean, we drive every single one of our decisions off of it. Every single business decision can be based on a core value, whether that's hiring, firing, you know, who you're working with. From a, from a customer standpoint, from a vendor standpoint, you can fire customers just like you can fire a vendor. And a lot of the time, and I mean, obviously, just like you could, you could, you know, hire or fire an employee. And 100% of the time that needs to be driven off of core values. If you can't see Yu-Gi-Oh to Yu-Gi-Oh with people on the basic, the very basic, simple core stuff, then, like, there's, there's nothing there. And, and honestly, I mean, that's why, I really think that's why one of the reasons you and I get along so well is, is because I, you know, speaking nothing about core values, we have, we never talked about it, but just like, I mean, and that's the thing about this industry is that so many people are living off of stuff that they believe in. You asked about transitioning jobs based off of belief, which I know is something that you have done. You believed in yourself, so you went out and did it and like, like, what better thing is there to do, right? I want to get nerdy on core values and the implementation. And this is going to be like, for the people listening that are building a business that are hiring right now, that are. Have core values, are thinking about core values. This is going to be gold. I just already know it. The implementation of core values, like, you are new to, newer to the business, like, one of your objectives is the implementation of these core values across all employees. This is not easy work. This is really Hard work. It involves communication. It involves like strategy with it. Like, you can't just say it once and expect it to stick. Like, what's the game plan? Like, what's your playbook for making sure that something like core values is not just looked at as some cheesy corporate jargon, but like, the employees, the inside, they feel like they believe in what you're doing, and then they, they implement it in their day to day. I mean, so I'm gonna get. So if I'm, if I'm reading you right here, if I'm reading you right now, we're gonna talk about the ground level. Yu-Gi-Oh we're talking about the worker bees, not. Not us lazy executives up at the Topps, you know, one of the things that I, that I learned, that I learned in my education, that I, that I've struggled with honestly, like throughout my career is communication. And it's something like, that's been the theme, the theme of Noah since I, since I started at bcw is like, communication. And I want to, like, I want to over communicate. I want to over communicate everything. One of the things, one of the things that, you know, I'm, I'm the CFO here. I work really closely with the CEO and I, and I feel like he and I really, we communicate well and we talk about things. But one of the things that I've, you know, I hate to say that I'm coaching him on is like, I tell him he needs to be the chief repeating officer and he needs to say these things and he needs to say the core values. Any chance that he gets in front of people, he needs to repeat them again and again and again and again until people are like, literally rolling their eyes at them and they're like, Yu-Gi-Oh we get it. Do the right thing. I know, I understand. But like, you know, it's almost like my grandpa long departed, you know, rest in peace. He was an alum of Yu-Gi-Oh and one of the tenets of Yu-Gi-Oh is kind of like, fake it till you make it. And, you know, core values are no different. They're no different than that. And that you just come in and you need to keep repeating them and saying them again and again and looking at yourself in the mirror. And honestly, when I sit down with my direct reports and I talk to them, when I do reviews, when I do anything in the business, really, that's, you know, outside of using Yu-Gi-Oh which is, which is something to circle back to later because you asked how I'm able to make quick decisions. And it's and it's Yu-Gi-Oh it's Claude, your personal assistant. This podcast is brought to you by Claude and all the data centers. But, but honestly it's just, it's just doing it. It's doing it again and again and again and again and again and again and repeating it and telling people why you're doing it. And this is why we're doing it and this is why you're being written up and this is why you're being promoted. Our promotions, our hires, every new hire. Here's our core values. Here's our core value speech. The things that are important to us. And like, you know, if you're going to succeed at our company, it's going to be because of core values. It's not going to be because you're smart or a hard worker or anything else. It's going to be because of core values. I think you could say bcws anywhere here. And people will probably think of like penny sleeves, think of top loaders, like everyone knows the brand, but it doesn't, it feels like a brand that people just have an expectation. Like they, it's I put my cards in their sleeves or this and that. I feel like you probably have gone through this big understanding of like what our brand represents to our customers and our stakeholders through your like, evaluation of onboarding on your role. Like, what do you think exists at BCW that you know by working there that you feel like you should, like you want to be at the top of the mountaintops and scream it and you want more of the hobby to understand who you are and what you do. Like, what do you think that is? Like, what is something that people just don't know about what, what the business does? I mean, boy, that's a, that's a great question. I hate to like hit back on all of, on like all of these things, but it's like, I mean we're, we have a hundred plus employees now. I think we have 107 employees right now. And they are, you know, bringing, bringing in the product, manufacturing product, boxing it, making it. We're a family owned business. We've scaled a lot. I mean just like many of these companies that are here at national today, I mean a lot of these places have scaled because the hobby has grown so much. But I mean, you know, I hit on our, on the tariff refund that we did to our customers. But like, you know, we, we believe in things and we do things and we're going to do them the right way. And if we don't do them the right way, we're going to fix it and we're going to make it right. And so, you know, we're a hobby supplies company. You know, we're not sexy. We're not sexy. I was just joking with a couple of people around here that like, Yu-Gi-Oh you know, supplies companies are kind of like the toilet paper in this industry. We're not your one out of one logo man cards and things like that. But I did just, see, I did just get a text here that this doesn't mean much to me but it probably will to you. But the one out of one Ohtani car, dual gold logo man has been found. And guess what? It was put in. The first piece that it was put in was a BCW magnetic. Let's go. So, you know, and so you asked like, you know, we're just kind of on the sideline. Logan Paul published something the other day or when I say the other day, I mean like maybe a month or so ago and he was, he was ripping apart some Pokemon card that me as a, as a non collector, a non collector of cards didn't really understand. But he pulled apart this, you know, $500,000 card that was a 10, rated a 10 by, you know, that was graded a 10. And he ripped it out and guess what? He put it in a BCW magnetic. And so like, I mean that's what, that's what we want to want people to know that we're there for. If you're going to be in the collector space, like you need to put your stuff into something, you're not just going to put it into your underwear drawer. Like it needs to go into something, it needs to go into the penny sleeve, the top loader, the magnetic. You know, we've got a bunch of really high end graded card catalogs that are really Zebra neat, honestly. But like we're here, we're, we're doing things the right way, you know, for anybody listening if, if things aren't done the right way with bcw, you reach out to our, our customer service team and we will make it right. If as we close this out, a lot of people listening are, you know, working in this space or want to work in this space, like you've been in here for about a year. Like what's maybe one piece of advice you'd offer to any, any operator who's considering kind of working full time in the hobby looking to break into the space. Yep, man, just like whatever you're doing, just like do it at a hundred percent. Like don't half ass anything. Go with your passion. Go with what you love. Go with what you believe in. Like, I believe. I think you believe. But the reason this space is doing so well right now is because, like, people are passionate about it. And so, like, when people follow that passion, like, I'm not saying that good things are going to happen. Like, I feel like I am the luckiest guy in the world right now. Like, I've got a, I've got a healthy family. I've got a, I've got an awesome job. Like, you know, I'm running around, I'm getting paid to be up here running around talking to people today wearing my, wearing my 199394 let's Go jersey. And, and like, just, just if you're gonna do something, do it right. Like, don't just, don't just mail it in. No. Doc. VCW supplies. Thanks, Noah. Appreciate it. Thanks, man. I love the conversation about culture. We'll be talking a lot about culture in the coming weeks here on Hobby Jobs. Very, very important. I have worked in companies with great culture. I have worked in companies with shitty cultures. There is a massive, massive difference. It is very, very early here at Stacking Slabs in terms of where we're going, what we want to do. But I am constantly thinking about the culture we are building here for future employees at Stacking Slabs. For the broader audience listening, I appreciate you supporting Hobby Jobs. I appreciate you supporting Stacking Slabs. We'll continue to put out more content for you, the builder in the sports card industry or the aspiring builder. I'm looking forward to more of these conversations ahead. Happy building. Talk to you soon.