Hobby Jobs: Why Relationships Beat Product in the Hobby | Garrett Borba, Neighborhood Card Shop

What's going on everybody? Welcome back to another episode of Hobby Jobs here on the Stacking Slabs Network, a special edition of Hobby Jobs you're probably used to at this point. Hobby Jobs hitting your feed on Sundays. Well, that happened and we had a little bit of a scheduling conflict. So we are giving you all a special edition of Hobby Jobs. And if you are new to Hobby Jobs, this is the show where we make the invisible work behind the hobby brands visible so the right customers, candidates, employees and partners understand who are the people building cool businesses in this space. I think it's really fun to try to tell the story of the owner, entrepreneur, operator that is building the infrastructure behind our industry. It is easy to talk about growth from the perspective of sales volume, all time record high sales, number of individuals entering this hobby. But I think there is a greenfield space to share the story of people building cool businesses. And Hobby Jobs is really running part and parcel with passionate profession. So you're going to get more operator content here on Stacking Slabs. It's something I'm interested in. As someone who spent 15 years in tech building businesses and then coming over to sports cards and making this my livelihood, I started to realize that there was a lot of cool stuff happening and a lot of opportunities that were popping up, but there was not many people talking about the behind the scenes and meeting with the people that were quitting their 9 to 5 in corporate America and going all in on the hobby. I'm one of those individuals so I am very, very interested in learning from other individuals doing that. And my goal with this is to just elevate the conversation around the business builder in this space. And I'm very fortunate to talk with so many incredible entrepreneurs on a weekly basis. And as I was having these conversations I thought, you know, these would be cool to share. And so we did drop a brand new edition of hobbyjobs newsletter. So make sure you check that out. Stacking Slab substack. The link is in the show notes. It's free. Would love for you to sign up there. And because this is a special edition, I am not going to run through kind of operator observations that will happen again this Sunday on that edition. But I am going to share a awesome conversation that I had not too long ago with Garrett. And Garrett is a awesome business builder in this space building neighborhood card shop. I got the opportunity to meet him at Columbus Card Fest. We connected Thursday night before the show started. Talking about cards, talking about business, talking about a lot of different things. And I thought, you know what this Would be a really cool conversation to have. And so once the show started, got some time with Garrett and that's the conversation that you will hear today. This week is a big week for the industry. A lot of you will be out at Fanatics Fest, set up, making connections, having conversations. If you are going to be at Fanatics Fest and you hear this and you are someone in this industry building, I would love to chat. You can email me at stackingslabsgmail.com or just send me a DM. That is my goal. I want to meet with as many cool people building cool stuff as possible. There's a lot of fun behind the scenes stuff I am working on that I will share with all of you very, very soon regarding hobby jobs, how you can get involved, just areas of opportunity. But for now we have a really fun conversation with Garrett Neighborhood Card Shop. Can't wait to share it with you. So let's get into it. All right, we are back. We have Garrett Neighborhood Card Shop here. I'm excited we got a chance to meet. Last night. We're doing these recordings at the Columbus Card Fest. The famous Ryan card collector too is putting on the show. We are fortunate to be in this amazing spot where we're looking out at the show. What are your first impressions, Garrett, of what you're seeing here? The show's packed. Look, it's first day. There's all the dealers seem busy. Ryan did an amazing job setting it up. You're not jam packed, right? Like one thing when I go to a show, I want to like be able to like breathe and move and not like feel like I have to squeeze my way through everything. And I feel like the setup is amazing for both the dealers and the buyers. Yeah, it's been cool. I'm excited to get down there and get in the mix and the action. We were having a fun conversation and before we talk about your shop and kind of the makeup and how you think about it, maybe share some, I guess. Has it always been cards? Like have you always worked in cards? Were you working a corporate job before? Yeah, so I was doing medical device sales and I have a family friend, Greg Lambert, who owns teammates, said, hey, you should start, you know, looking into cards. You know, you played college sports and you know you do sales now. I was like, sure. Like I didn't know there was money in that. And like it's, you know, I'm generally always interested in sports and was doing medical device Covid happened. I was buying cards and collecting. Before that I collected like Pokemon Cards as a kid. But Covid happened and being a medical device, I couldn't go into any hospitals, right. And I was still getting paid to sit at home and do nothing. So I said, I am going to put all my efforts into this and focus on it and put every dollar I had into Fernando Tatis, which actually ended up paying really dividends for me during that time because he was very popular. And then I, yeah, sold those and did pretty well on them. My wife got pregnant and I said, you know what, I'm going to do this full time. I don't want to go back into medical device and the rest is history. How important is having that professional skill set in being a medical device salesman, which I know is a very lucrative job if you're good at what you do. But it's very complicated from a product perspective. Right. You're going into hospitals, it's a different audience. You're trying to sell to certain people. Like how, how did that experience impact kind of your mindset in getting into cards and building a business there? Yeah, I think if you could sell to doctors who are some of the most strong minded people probably in the world, then I think you could probably sell to anyone. But yeah, I think just having that background, I've been in sales prior to that as well. I think help the transition in the cards. And I'm a people's person, you know, I'm all about relationships. So I think just naturally, like if you're very passionate about like I love cards now, right. Like I eat, sleep, breathe it, right. If you're very passionate about what you do. I just think people generally, if you're a good person, want to do business with you. When you couldn't go into the hospital and you decided to put more of your energy into cards, did you. Was the plan that this is what I'm going to do full time? On the other side of it, I went in with the mindset of I'm going to see what I could do in a year or two because my wife also got pregnant. So I was like, you know, it'll give me time to spend with my, my newborn. It's like we could focus on this, like we can make enough money that, you know, I could support the family. And yeah, just the year into it I was like, yeah, I could definitely do this full time. I enjoyed what I was doing. And I think in life if you enjoy what you're doing, regardless of what you're making, you're just happier. Right. Like if I made ends meet and was just getting by it. I think I, I still would be doing it to this day versus going back to medical device sale, where you can make really good money. Right? And I was making really good money, but I was just. I. I don't think you're as happy as you truly are if you are actually doing something that you love. What were those early opportunities for you that you identified that, you know, because there's so many different things you can do in cards, so many different areas to spit or ways to spend your time. Like, what were those opportunities that you saw that stood out where you're like, I enjoy this, and like, this is a good way to make money. Yeah. I think I played baseball in college, so I, I naturally focused on baseball just because I felt like I, you know, not that I was a scout or anything, but I'm like, oh, this guy has potential. Right. And I, I naturally gravitated towards baseball and got lucky with like, you know, some prospects and stuff like that. And then realize that there's opportunity on, you know, buying early on people you believe in and, and that. But, yeah, I think just if you believe in what you're buying and then you could sell that, that, that helps too, right. To whoever you're selling to. So I think naturally, for me, it was baseball, but then it. You just, you pick up on trends and stuff as well. And I got big into grading during that time, and that was when grading was actually affordable. Right. And. And that was when the boom happened, when you could open a box of 2018. I remember vividly, I opened a box of like 2018 Prism Retail. Right. It was like $85 at the time. Luka rookie year. And then I was sending in, you know, Trey Young bases. Yeah. It's like. And then it comes back and you're like, wow, this Trey young base is $200. What's going on? I paid $6, $7 to grade it, and then the rest is history. And then, yeah, the boom happened. And if you got in before the boom, you naturally were doing good just based off of anything you bought prior to that, you know, was up. So, so the getting. And that's. You're the second person I've talked to today that has made. Said a very similar statement. Did being active in the boom help you make money that you could then take to, to. To start the business? Yeah, absolutely. I, I naturally saw. I mean, I definitely lost big on cards too, during the boom. Right. Because stuff was so, like, it would land in your mailbox and next day was either up or down. Right. Depending on dur. Most of the time it was up during that time. But during that time when I was making money, I also wanted to build relationships with like, a lot of big companies. And I started focusing on building. I was working with distributors like Southern Hobby and other. Other distributors and focus on building like a wholesale type business. Because I had these relationships with these breaking companies and shops. I didn't have a shop at that time myself. And that's kind of where I focused any money I made. Because with distribution, you got to put money in right before you sell allocation. So I was losing a lot of money buying, you know, overpriced product at the time. But I knew it would pay off, you know, in the long run if I just kept. Kept doing that. And then I did that for two or three years of just wholesaling and built a very big business, just wholesaling to a lot of the big. A lot of the big streamers and shops. And that's kind of how I took the next step from there. I want to, like, dig into that because there is relationship building that I'm sure from your previous professional life you used in this line of work. There is. Obviously you have to get access to the product. Like, how did. How did you think about, like, building relationships with people like Rian Johnson? Like, how, like, what was your approach? What was your mindset? Yeah, I think. I think the show that really kind of put it all together for me was. I want to say it was in Vegas and it was a show that like Southern put on or something after. I can't remember the exact show it was, but that's where I met a lot of people, like in person, you know, got their numbers, just started chatting with and just building relationship from there. And then, you know, if you're a good person, then you're doing good business. You know, people are going to refer you as well. And then I just started getting a bunch of business that way through just doing things the right way. Right. I would ship overnight, wouldn't charge people. And then people are like, wow, thank you. Not a lot of people do this. I was just doing things that I knew, yeah, it cost me extra money, but I knew it paid dividends down the road, like from getting referral business. And then, yeah, the rest is history. Just like a lot of breakers that you work with if. If they like you, sometimes they don't want to give out who they work with. Right. Because they wanted to get all the product themselves. But yeah, at that time, you know, I had, I, I, I was working with backyard breaks. I was working with all the biggest breakers in the world and a lot of the biggest shops in the world. And that time, a lot of, you know, it was just crazy. Everyone was opening personals way more than you would see today, right. Because cards were just during COVID insane. Everyone was at home bored. So I, I built, yeah, Like, I just felt like I built a very good wholesale business through just the relationship aspect and a lot of referral business, which is, is key in this, in this business, right? Like if you want good deals, if you want good business, like just having those relationships and people to rely on is I think the biggest component. I always find it interesting because referrals are always like the, the number one lead source for individuals, especially in this space. But it's not like you can just say, all right, I'm going to go start my referral engine. I'm going to go start this. Because everyone else is talking about it. It takes a lot of like intangible skills, good communication, doing things other people aren't doing. Like, how do you, how do, how did you think about like the referral business, like when you were at that point and even now, like, how do you think about it? Yeah, I think anytime you do business with someone first time, that first impression is key, right? Like if you're slow to communicate or you're slow to ship or whatever, that means you're slow to pay. Like, that's just gonna leave that impression on them. Like, I don't really want to do business, but if you just like over deliver and over promise, then like, of course they're going to want to do more business with you and then they're going to refer you out. And I felt like when I was doing the wholesale, like I said, I was doing things that other people weren't, like shipping overnight, you know, on the house, which is very expensive. Right. But I felt like things like that is what kind of separate you. And if you want to stand out and do things to, to stand out, you have to kind of think outside the box and be willing to, you know, take a little less on certain products or, or spend a little more on shipping. Just do things that kind of like make people remember. So when did you get serious about opening a shop or did you ever get serious or did it just happen? Like, what was the plan? So me and my business partner, Anthony, Weird, like I said, we grew the wholesale business to pretty significant number. And we were like, we just knew the writing was on the Wall with fanatics taking over and Topps taking over and just wanting to kind of cut out that middleman. And I said, we have to either open a brick and mortar or we have to go do something different, you know, or just enjoy the hobby and buy singles and flip singles. But we saw the riding on the wall with them taking over that we would have to have a brick and mortar if we wanted to stay in this game because they were trying to eliminate the middleman. They don't want. They don't want you buying product from them and just moving it sideways right to another shop or to breaker. So we opened up the. We opened up neighborhood card shop. Yeah. About three years ago now. And yeah, the rest is history. So your instinct said if we want to continue doing what we're doing, as all of these undeniable changes are happening across the industry, we needed to open a shop. And it's usually people have the shop, which is interesting. What was. Did anything change for you? Yeah, I mean, I've never owned a brick and mortar. I've never had to deal with employees. I was, you know, it was just me and my partner doing our own thing. So, you know, there was a lot of change for us. There was a lot of. A lot of logistics that we had to figure out. And you could get advice, like, from every other card shop and things not to do and what to do. But I think until you're in it, like, truly in it, that's when you really find out what works for you and, you know, your business partner or your company. So, yeah, how do. So how did you think about the fact that, like, you've got a lease you got to pay for, you've got employees you got to pay for and those. That's money you would just get put back in a product that you knew you get a margin on. Like, what was that mindset shift? That. That's the game and that's what you had to do. Yeah. I mean, we live in a small town, Lodi. Like, it was like, you know, very small town. I was like, I don't even know people are going to come. I don't even know if people even collect cards in my town. You know what I mean? So that's the other. That's the other component. You know, we're going to build this. Worst case scenario. We're streaming online. We could still sell boxes and, you know, we break and. And we're going to grow that. And we. I think we started with five employees. Right. And. And we're closed Tuesdays, we're just figuring things out, you know, and. And. And we're super thankful for. For the LOI community because they did support the shop, and. And it was a very good outcome for us. And we did zero marketing. We did it. We didn't do anything. Like, we didn't really promote the shop that much. Just. Just online, on social media. But other than that, yeah, just kind of naturally took off for us. And I think, again, it goes back to the relationships, like, people that I knew came and supported the shop just based off of, like, doing business with me in the past. So I thought that was very awesome. My first exposure to Neighborhood was, I was telling you last night, you know, Topps, Chrome, WWE came out and I was like, you know what? I don't buy into a ton of breaks, but for me, for wrestling, especially when it comes out, it makes a lot of sense to me. And, you know, I'm just, like, going through the app and just looking at everyone. I land on Neighborhood and I look and, you know, running good breaks, and it's like, okay, cool. This is a cool shop. And then I'm going through Instagram and everything else. And that was like, my first exposure, which I would imagine, like your first customer exposure is probably less people coming to your storefront and more people coming to your digital front. So. Absolutely. Is. Is that, like, digital side and like the breaking streaming, is that, like, the primary driver of your business right now? I think in order to have a successful brand shop, whatever it is, you kind of have to do everything in today's world, right? Like being a brick and mortar. If you're not doing TCG and Pokemon, which is very popular right now, if you're not breaking online and if you're not buying and selling in shop, then it makes it very difficult if you're relying on, you know, just what the foot traffic that walks in. I think it's. It's difficult in today's market with the prices of wax, right? Like, you know, there's. There's not lines out the door of people walking in and saying, oh, give me that $5,000 box. I want to rip it today, right? Like. Like, we're realistic and know that a lot of that is being broken and. And it gives people a chance that do want to be in, buy into those box prices at a chance at an affordable price with breaking. So I think we. We kind of divide our business into all three of those. With tcg, Pokemon, breaking online, and then our store. But relying on one, I think would be very Difficult in today's market. How do you think about the on air personality? The person that's an extension of your brand, the person that's selling your product like that is I think one of the most important positions in sports cards right now or Pokemon or whatever. Like how do you think about the traits that that person has to have? Yeah, I mean they're on the big stage, right? They're, they're the ones that are essentially representing your brand and business. Right. So you not, we're not like training them at like athletes, right. And have PR training and stuff like that. But obviously you hope that what they're saying, you know, kind of represents your brand and maybe we should do that. Right. So that way because nowadays all it takes is you, for you to get clipped or say something wrong and you know, and you'll be all over the Internet and it could have a definitely negative impact on your business and your brand. But I think just in general, if you're doing your due diligence hiring and, and you know, whoever you're hiring for that online breaking position or you know, you've done your due diligence, hopefully that you trust them and that they'll represent your brand to, to what you want it to be. When you think about like differentiation, there are, you know, you mentioned like you got a shop in a small city in California. But like being online changes everything, right? The exposure and just opportunities. Like how do you think about like differentiation? Like you open up apps and you can buy into breaks for to. There's a hundred thousands of companies that are doing what you're doing. But like how do you think about standing out? Yeah, I think it's difficult. I think we try to do a good job representing kind of every sport as well. Right. Like for you example, you found us because of WWE and nature, who's very passionate about wwe. That's like his thing that he loves to rip the most. So if you put people that are passionate behind whatever sport they're ripping, I think that's what kind of gravitates towards the collector, right. Like you might only want to join with him now because you like his personality. You like, you know, you know we're feeling breaks and you're, you're a wrestler that you enjoy buying is available. And you know, I think that's, that's the biggest component is you're, you're putting people that are passionate behind whatever they're selling and they actually know the product. Right. It's easy just to sell a product that's Hot. But if you're actually passionate about it and know the product inside out, know all the wrestlers, know what you're chasing and could actually like explain to you as the buyer what you could potentially hit, then it makes you feel more comfortable buying maybe in that, in that setting. So what I hear there is like just having passion. And I think one thing I preach all the time is just like the importance of like education. Yep. Not being transactional, playing for the long game. Like when you think about like content, when you think about like educating, getting the right personalities in who are going to kind of inform people. Like, that's like a long game approach. So like, how do you kind of think about like these moments where you buy a bunch of product and you lose money on it versus, like, you know, you buy a product and you, you make money off of it. Like, but this is a very, very long, it has a long trajectory and a long game. Like, how do you, how do you like, stay even? Not get down too much or not get high too much. Yeah. I think in this business you realize that collectors and buyers are going to buy the products that they enjoy at whatever price point that they feel comfortable with. And there's going to be some product that I know you'd mentioned last night, like WWE Delight. You, you felt like there was a lot of value in that and that product went up a lot and was a lot harder to get than maybe hobby and stuff. So we know that there's going to be products that aren't as desired and they're going to be tougher to move and are going to take longer to fill, so we'll have to discount. And that's where I think we have to do a good job at taking care of the people that support us as well. Right. Like if you bought into multiple of our breaks, it's like, hey, I'm willing to give you a deal on this and it's not about the money. I know he's your favorite wrestler. So like, you know, yeah, maybe this isn't the most popular product, but if you want to, you know, take a stab at it, like, we're at least willing to like, you know, give you a very good deal. Like you chase your favorite wrestler. We're not making much on this, but we, unfortunately there's times we have to move product that isn't as desired. Right. As a company, we get, we get solicited all the product and you know, we are kind of, we're kind of graded in a sense on how much product we take. Of and if we skip out on certain products, it could negative negatively impact us as a company as well. So unfortunately we take everything and there's certain things that aren't as popular as others. How, like how do you think about those moments where you're evaluating the performance of a specific product and you're looking and you've got cases like stacked up. Like when do you make the decision of like this needs to be discounted versus like or how do you. This needs to be discounted verse when you put this in a mixer with a new product that's out. Like I see that all the time and like I'm watching the market and what they're doing. I'm just fascinated by the decision making. Like how do you think about that? Yeah, I think it's difficult. Right. Like I would say based on the speed of we're filling the breaks, the popularity of the product, how easily accessible it is because there's certain products that's very difficult to get right. Like we'll bring up the light again like after that first wave is very. Everyone wanted it so tops realizes it, you know, and they make it a little more difficult to get where some things are, I would say more accessible. So I think yeah, you have to get creative as a company when product is stale or not as popular and throw it in with a product that's very popular. Or you have to think about it like we'll use royalty as an example. Since you're a WWE guy. You know, there's not a lot of cards in that. So if you're buying into those breaks, you would miss a lot if it's only royalty. Right. But if we threw in some WWE Chrome hobby where there's a lot more chances to actually hit, hit your card, you mix those two together, you have an expensive product and not as expensive product and now at least you have a better chance to at least get something right. So I think that's how we think of it as a company is we always want people to feel like they're getting something when they're joining a break. Yes. There's going to be times you miss in general. Right. Like breaking is. It's. It's gambling essentially. Right. Like the odds are are usually not in your favor, but if you hit then, you know, sometimes you get big. But yeah, just in general, we want to make sure that, you know, people that are buying it are having a good experience and not just getting no hit packs or whatever it may be the whole time. I'm just so I'm Most recently, part of it for me has been like, I'm. I'm. I have never been much of a guy who buys into breaks. Although, like, I'm very curious and I have done it. But like this last run with WWE product, I bought into more breaks than I ever before. And I'm just, I'm amazed, like, cross platform. I'm just amazed at how easy it is, like from a user perspective, which is. It's. It's just so easy. Just a swipe. There you go. But I'm. You talked about distribution upfront, like what you were doing before. Now you're working, you own a business and you're probably trying to figure out like, how do I continue to manage the relationship with tops and fanatics the right way to make sure I, I continue to get the right distribution allocation when I need it. Like, how has your maybe previous experience on the. Working with like Southern and some of them how, like you use that to like manage or set the stage to manage the relationship with tops and fanatics? Yeah, I think it's very similar. Right. It's all about relationships. It's all about doing the right thing, paying your bills on time and, and taking risks that you've feel like you could take and, and communicating that, you know, you're. If there's something you truly believe in ahead of time that, you know, hey, I'd like more of this product, I'm willing to pay even more for it. It's. It's a product that we do really well with, we have an audience for. So I think just like setting the expectations and communicating is the biggest thing, whether that's with, you know, Tops or whoever it is, whichever distribution company. But I think just being transparent and honest and letting them know that, you know, you're willing to take a big position if you believe in it and, and sometimes you swing a miss. Right. Like you might think products going to perform way better than it does, and it just, it doesn't. So then that could be a big loser for you as a company. So you do have to strategically be careful about, you know, taking the big stabs at the things you believe in as well. How do you specialize your time now? Like, you're. There's a lot going on, a lot of opportunities. Business is trying to grow the business. Like, where do you spend your time? How do you make those decisions? Yeah. So thankfully I have a partner, Anthony, who helps out a tremendous ton on the back end and, and managing the schedules and breaking and payroll and stuff like that. What Which I manage more of a lot of the storefront, like managing the singles, selling, grading, all of that. So I would say I'm more managing the shop, what goes the day to day of the shop and then we sell a ton through fanatics, collect. It's a big business part of our business as well. So I manage a lot of that and I manage all of the PSA for us. So it's a lot. And just, just those, it doesn't sound like a lot but those three things, you know, takes up a lot of time just. But yeah, I think in general if you are doing this all by yourself, I don't know how someone could do it if I didn't have a business partner. Yeah, I don't know, I don't know how. I mean I don't think I'd be married and have kids. I think my wife would leave me because she'd be like, yeah, all you do is work. And I feel like all I do is work now. Right. So like I, I get in the shop at 7 and I don't leave till 7 or 8, you know. Yeah. I think people on social media sometimes think that, you know, this is so easy, right. And you know, oh man, everyone's making so much money in cards but they don't actually see the work that's behind it. You know, I was, when we first opened, I was working 70, 80 hours a week and you know, was there every day, 12 hour days. And yeah, it's, it, it, it takes a toll on you but I think, you know, it goes back to the passion and if you actually love what you do, it doesn't feel like work. My wife will tell me that I definitely work too much. Right. But to me, I don't feel like I, I'm working that much. Even though I'm putting in long days. I want to maybe close this out with talking some observations I've made across other industries. It's like you think about like professional growth and that's always a talk track. It's like what do you, what's your professional growth? Like what, what are you doing to move up the ladder? And I never really like this, this is such a big, like I consider this a big industry now, but it's like still forming. Sure. And it's, it's, it's not maybe as mature as a tech or financial services if you are working in there. But like I can see this space getting to that point based on all the signals. But this like this career infrastructure, like people working in this space you're very entrepreneurial. But then there's people that are just like, they want to get plugged in. They want to work for a company like what, D.C. sports 87? Sure. They want to work at a shop, like neighborhood card shop. But I don't know. Like, I think about professional growth a lot. Like, how do you, how have you grown professionally? And like, how do you think about professional growth in. In the hobby since you've kind of left your job in medical sales, device device sales, and moved into sports cards? Yeah, Like, I always think about it like this, right? Like, if the shop was to close down, God forbid, right. And we shut down shop tomorrow, have I done enough to prove that whatever I was good at at the shop, whatever I present to the next company, you know, my resume will they want to hire me? Like, I always tell people my goal should never be like, I need to be hired. Right. Like, if I, if the shop closed down and I put, hey, you know, shops closing down, I'm looking for work. I should have people calling me, wanting me to work for them. If, if that's the case, then I know I did my job at my. Whatever I was doing, right. So I tell our team that all the time is like, you know, God forbid it never worked out here. You should always want people that want to call you, not that you are having to submit resume after resume or applicant after applicant to. To show that you're looking for jobs that people should want to seek out because they believed in you and they knew you did a good job at whatever you were doing. When working for yourself in cards is a very interesting and special and hard and satisfying and all of these feelings emot position to be in. Do you, do you think you could go back into like the corporate or you or just cards? Has it sunk its teeth in you? I think that. I don't think I could ever go back to the corporate world. I think that I've built enough relationships in this space that God forbid, it didn't work out for me or other friends in this space that we could go do something together and I'd rather pursue something with friends and, and, and other business partners than go back into the corporate world. Just me personally. Yeah. I guess as we close this out, maybe biggest opportunity ahead, like for you, for the business. Like, you're looking at the industry. We're staring out at all this action right now. Like, where's your mindset in terms of like, where we're going in the future and where you want to be? Yeah, I think Just like from a business perspective and shop perspective, like, I always think, like, where do people always want to go shop, right? Like what, what names are always brought up when they talk about like shops to visit. And for me it's Burbank. Like always everyone wants to visit Burbank, which they do amazing job, right? They have that, that, oh, I want to visit Burbank when I'm la. So me running the shop, I want that perspective for like Northern California. Like, oh, I want to go visit neighborhood hard shops. So like I'm putting all my efforts into how can we make that a destination for like anyone that flies into Sacramento or San Francisco to willing to make that drive to, to Lodi, right? A small town. So that's, that's how I think. And then obviously on the online side is like, anytime there's a new release, I want people to feel like, oh, I could go break it at neighborhood or I have an opportunity there because I know they're going to get the product. So I feel like from a business perspective, that's the mindset I want like our consumers to have and people that have never visited a shop to be like, oh, I want to go visit the shop and I want to build that reputation of like, they're fair, they're honest, you know, they're easy to work with, type thing. I lied one more before I let you get out of here. What advice do you have for anyone who is listening to this and has been thinking about it? You know, gets to their cubicle and like halfway through the day, they're just like on ebay, like looking at cards and making deals on Instagram and they're like, I want to do this full time. Like, what advice do you have for anyone out there listening? I would say the hours that you're not working at your job, put in as many as you can on what you are actually passionate about, if this is truly what you're passionate about. And then take, if you have sick leave, take a full week off and don't go on vacation and just do this full time and see if this is something that truly resonates with you and you're willing to like put in the work. Because it's not just like, oh, I'm going to quit my job and I'm going to work a couple hours a day and make as much money as I did. It's like I put in a full, full 12 hour day of the grind of what you think it would be. And then if you, after that week, if you're like, wow, I could see myself doing it. Then go for it, right? And, and take the leap of faith. There's always going to be, there's always going to be work for you on the corporate side if it didn't work out for you. This was Garrett Neighborhood Card Shop. Happy Columbus Card Fest. Appreciate the time, man. Yeah, thanks bro. Appreciate your time. It is like a interweb of connections that I find interesting in this space. You meet one person, you build the relationship, you become friends and that individual introduces you to someone else and then you learn about their business, what they're building, their mindset. And that has been how I have been making these connections and it is a lot of fun and that is how I met Garrett. So I hopefully you got some good insight and information and maybe some inspiration just on his story. And that's the goal of hobby jobs. Just to continue to elevate the conversation of the individual in the sports card industry. Building businesses, creating the infrastructure to keep this space sustainable, keep it exciting, keep it interesting. I have so much time and energy for individuals who are going all in on building businesses in this space. This is the most satisfying job I've ever had in my career and want to continue to see this space thrive, grow. And it is going to happen through innovation, is going to happen through new technology, is going to happen through companies being built. But most importantly, it is going to happen from the ideas and the passion of individuals who are leaving their jobs and going all in and building in the hobby. Happy collecting, happy building. Safe travels. If you are getting out there this week at Fanatics Fest, we are in a very, very fun stretch here in the industry. There's a lot to be excited about, a lot to be motivated by and appreciate all of you for tuning in this week. We will have another episode on Sunday at the regular time but it was a good opportunity, opportunity to jump in here and share this conversation with Garrett. You all take care, we'll talk to you soon.