In-Depth Review Of Topps Series 2 Baseball (Worth The Buy?); Denzel Clarke's Incredible Catch and Hyung's Connection To The Athletics Rookie Outfielder; John Goes For The Sweep In Over/Under

You're listening to Cards to the Moon, a podcast about trading cards from both a collector and investor perspective. We hope you'll stick around for the ride as we take a deep dive into the state of the hobby, share some hot takes, hopefully some useful advice and fun stories along the way. Hey guys, welcome back to Cards to the Moon. This is episode 297. My name is Clark from 5cardguys.com, you can also find me at 5cardguys on Instagram, Facebook and on YouTube. Co-hosting with me as usual is Hyung, who is at ChoHyung on IG and YouTube as well. And we've got a new co-host with us today, no actually, our OG crew is back for this episode today because John, aka at Trade You at Recess on IG, the prodigal son has returned. So before we begin, John, how's it going and what have you been up to lately? It's good guys. Good to be back. It's been a while. Life has just been so busy. Yeah, I apologize to all the listeners, but I'm sure they could have used a break from my voice. No, no, no. I know our podcast fans missed you, especially Will. He always says it's just not the same without John. Hyung and I aren't, you know, the two of us aren't good for him. So I know you've got your fans for sure. And definitely add, you know, obviously your own perspective to the show. So glad to have you back, John. Thanks man. All right, off the top today, I thought we could start with a cool story that has a personal connection to you, Hyung, and to us in general, being Canadian. And it has to do with athletics. And I'm always want to say Oakland athletics, but I guess they're just calling themselves athletics while they're in Sacramento. They're the McLovin of the MLB. Well, it has to do with athletics rookie outfielder Denzel Clark, who made one of the best catches this season, maybe all time. He's definitely in that discussion when he robbed Nolan Shanuel of a home run by scaling the eight foot wall and left center like he was Spider-Man. And deservedly, Tops made that catch into a Tops Now card, which I ordered five of. So I'm glad to, I'm looking forward to getting that. But anyway, Hyung, you want to share how you know Denzel and what you thought of him as a prospect coming up playing in the minors? For sure. So just, I mean, in the last two weeks, he's made three unbelievable catches. So the third catch you're talking about with the Tops Now card just happens to be the best, I think the best out of the three. But if you haven't seen all three catches, you got to go take a look. That's literally how he broke into, I guess, the big leagues, because he's only been in the big leagues for two weeks now. But I've known Denzel since he was 14 years old. He was probably five foot six, and it was kind of like a quiet kid with big goggle glasses. Just kind of like playing on the turf, warming up, and I'm like, who's this kid? And like a lot of people weren't, I guess, on him at the time in terms of baseball because he was super, super raw. But I just seen a young kid who, one, was such a good kid, just authentically. And then just his athleticism, his potential athleticism is the first thing that caught my eye. And his mom happened to be right there, and we started talking, and Donna is a former Olympian, I find out. So we started the conversations there, and at that time, I was coaching the Toronto Mets, which is an elite travel team here in Toronto for high school players. I was the head coach on that 60 and under team where I brought Denzel in, and I was his head coach. And then fortunate enough to coach him on the junior national team with Team Canada. He's made some spectacular plays with the junior national team. I remember in 2017 in Thunder Bay, and you'll see all his catches are kind of going viral, but he was 17 years old at the time, or 18, and he made a diving catch against Chinese Taipei down the right field line. So that was kind of where you've seen bursts of greatness, but he was so raw. This kid was so raw. And it kind of reminds me because when I got him, he was like 5'6", 5'7", but I've seen a 6'4", 6'5", projectable body. His mom, former Olympian, we've addressed what Denzel needed to do at an early age, which was to stay athletic because that was his best asset. He didn't know baseball at the time, but baseball can be taught through experience, through the right coaching, as well as his journey that he's played now Division I baseball, minor league baseball, and now he's doing that at the major league level is pretty crazy, and it's something that I think is very exciting for Canadians and just people in general. Not only Canadians, I know it's exciting for us anytime we get a player that kind of makes a world statement, almost takes the world by storm, and that's what Denzel did for the first two weeks of his major league debut. And yeah, that's what you're getting out of him. You're getting a top, top premier defender and a guy with potential 30 plus home run power. But again, obviously baseball is not easy. It's very difficult. So it's a process where he's 25 years old, so he's a little older now in terms of the typical young prospects we look for, but that just shows you how development occurs, whether you're a Ronald Acuna or Juan Soto when you're 18, 19 years old, or you're 25 years old and hitting your stride in your late 20s. Everybody's development is different, and Denzel Clark is fortunately enough to take the world by storm in his first two weeks. And yeah, I'm super grateful to have experienced, even in his development in baseball, just because he's such a good kid. His head's on right, he prioritizes, he's one of the hardest workers. There's so many good things that you just root for the kids. So for me, yeah, even the Topps Now card is more than just a card. It's definitely something that is very meaningful, and this is why I do like brands like Topps Now, because they do have that sentimental value to the people that it matters to. For sure, yeah, no, that was well said. I'm glad that more people are noticing Denzel Clark, because I know being around you, Hyung, I knew the name Denzel Clark way before he got called up, and someone like me, I would have known who Denzel Clark was with that kind of personal connection, right? So yeah, glad to see, I don't know if it was on the MLB network, but I sent you guys a link to that interview clip where they're comparing his catch to some of the all-time iconic catches in the history of the game. So that's what we're talking about, if you haven't seen it yet. It's up there. Yeah. Johnny, did you see it? I did. Crazy. Man. That's just pure athleticism. Seriously. But it's so cool to see. I know Hyung's been talking about Denzel, like Clark, you and I know of him because of Hyung, and I think he's come visit your office a couple of times, and I think you guys rip packs together, right? We rip packs together, so we have some old footage of some old bowmen, and we also, I'm trying to get footage, what was really cool, and I was discussing this with Clark and Andy, one of our producers for our media side of things. We have footage of Denzel doing a camp here in Toronto, a winter camp, and I happened to, I bought a lot of his cards for cheap. I had a green sapphire out of 99, which is a cool color match with the athletics. It's not his first bowman chrome, because he doesn't have a first bowman chrome auto, it's just the second year bowman auto, I guess. But we ended up giving that away, Denzel, I basically, I graded it, it was an SGC 10, and I gave it to Denzel to give it to a lucky camp participant, and we got it on film, so we're trying to go into the archives and bring that up, but yeah, just amazing times with him, for sure. Yeah, that's cool. Yeah, we'll definitely need to reconnect with him somehow in the off season. For sure. Yeah, well, I know he's down for a podcast, I was supposed to do, in my podcast that I'm doing, season two, Denzel was supposed to be on it, but timing didn't work out, so he's definitely someone I want to bring on season three later this year. Nice. Yeah. Yeah, awesome. All right, well, with that, let's move on to hobby headlines. All right, you know we mostly like to focus on issues and hot topics within the hobby on our podcast, but occasionally we'll do a review on a product that was just released, and one of those products is always top series one and two every year, because it's just a staple for us baseball card collectors. And so today, with the recent release of top series two baseball, I thought we could just go through what's back in the set, what's new, and discuss whether we think it's cool or not. All right, so let's start with the top flagship rookie cards to chase in this set, and I'll name a few, and you guys tell me who you would be chasing, all right, like who appeals to you. So the names that come up frequently are Roki Sasaki, Haesung Kim, and I don't know if I'm just including him because he's Korean, but Haesung Kim of the Dodgers, Cam Smith, Matt Shaw, and Christian Campbell. And the last three I named, Matt Shaw, Christian Campbell, and Cam Smith are short printed if that makes a difference to you. Any names that appeal to you? I think for me, it's a decent rookie class. I think there's a lot of chase, and I think Roki Sasaki is actually the kicker, as crazy as that might sound, because people are just saying, oh, he's a bust. I'm like, man, let him, this guy's 23 years old, let him kind of settle down. And some very interesting stat I pulled up with collecting in general in Japan, there was like a 2100% increase in the last few years with collectability, with everything around sports with Japan, baseball specifically, and a lot has to do with Otani, a lot has to do with Yamamoto, now Sasaki. So for me, that's what you're in. You're in a whole different marketplace where these guys didn't exist before. So if you have short printed cards, or you have scarce cards in a whole different marketplace that has a massive demand, that's a plus for everybody. I think that's a huge bonus for everybody, because if you're just ripping cards and then you pull, let's just say, a Christian Campbell, for instance, it's still going to be desired, but not at the level of Roki Sasaki. So for me, that's the big kicker in all of this is having key Japanese players, because Japan is the one growing the market at a massive rate as well, especially for fanatics and tops, right? It's almost like a partnership between Japan and fanatics is so important to the future of baseball collectability, and Roki is the chase at the end of the day. And with that, there's a strong rookie class. So for me, I'm happy that year after year, it's not a boring, necessarily. There's always someone to chase, right? And going back to your Series 2, that kind of reminds me of going back, we talked about the bat down to Acuna, right? And that's what kind of made it, I guess, iconic is that it was a short print. And then when you look at tops as a flagship rookie, everybody sees the bat down as his flagship and then he has the mass printed tops update bat up image, right? And then it gets fun with Acuna, because you have parallels of the bat up. That's why there's value on the bat up, because there's no parallels on the short printed bat down, right? So unless it's the Sapphire. Yeah, we're going deep within top series baseball, but it's good for short prints are a thing for sure. How about you, John? Any of those names kind of pop out to you? Well, besides the obvious bias of the Korean guy, like I don't know rookies as well as you guys, but I do like the fact, and I don't know if it's strategic on purpose or it's because they weren't able to get prints in time, but the fact that some of the biggest names in the set are short printed, I like that. As a strategy, I like that. And even as a collector, I think if they going forward, some of the best rookies end up being short printed, I actually really like that. As long as they're adding more to the hits outside of just the rookie cards, I think it gives a little bit, a little lore and a little pizzazz back to collecting rookie cards. And then you have outside hits like veteran autos, you can get like a Ichiro Auto or Barry Bonds. or something like that like if you have outside hits just aside from the rookie cards and then the rookie cards themselves are also short printed i think for for collectors this is this is i don't it feels like a win to me in terms of like collecting yeah no i you know i don't have much to add to that um other than maybe you can get Sasaki for a little bit of a discount because he's struggling this year right but i think we all believe in the talent still and you know he's probably just adjusting to major league baseball um and uh yeah the short prints you know if if any of those rookies hit those short printed cards the values will just skyrocket do we do we know the short print amount because it is it relative short print to print because it can still be a massive amount it's probably a relative short print yeah because super short print is something but short prints is it two thousand five thousand ten thousand yeah similar to how they say downtowns are like case hits and there's like a billion of them i know i you know that's why i started collecting those home field advantage thinking they're case hits but there seems to be millions out there so but uh to your question i don't think they released how much how many um short printed cards there are actually but uh i feel like yeah i feel like you could i don't know maybe it's not super short print yeah maybe it's not super short print but just short printed okay uh while we're talking about players uh we finally get one soto in a match uniform big deal for you or not really like uh in terms of the card yeah i guess series two is the first one soto i think collectability long term there's always going to be a demand for like oh this is his first card with that team just in that niche hobby but i don't think it's something that and it's it all depends because something like otani and la dodger's uniform i would say would hit different and then if soto won a world series with the mets and then he won like three mvps in the next five years and then yeah i could see like that chase being a thing but you gotta be doing something you gotta be doing you gotta be doing more than what soto is doing right now for for that to be even a thought right now at this point because the way modern collectability is is such an emotional roller coaster i guess because it all depends on what's happening now and who's the hottest uh fad right like otani so for for me it's not that collectible but i do think there is collectability in it long term if you're into that right so it all depends on what what uh what i guess hits that appetite that's fair yeah john yeah i don't i don't think it has the um you know collectability versus either the yankees or dodgers and apologies to mets fans but it's it's just sort of like a fact i think outs outside of if you're living in new york you know i'm sure that that that comment might upset you but outside of new york for people living in toronto or not in new york like it's a given when a big name player goes either the dodgers or the yankees um it kind of like you know bumps up their the value of the card whether it's like otani in a in a dodgers uniform or you know when when soto was on a yankees uniform like we can even talk like luca in a lakers uniform there's just something about the the historic team within the sport and the mets i don't think it's going to hit like that for the mets but i mean he's got the monster contract this is probably going to be his home for pretty much the rest of his career so if he continues down that sort of like ted williams trajectory you know maybe that you know like uh brett brett um deep value investor he's where he's he's not really into like collecting the the first team card and i think this is outside of yankees and dodgers this is a perfect example where i don't think that first card in a mets uniform is really going to be a big deal even long term but this is just going to be you know he's going to be in a mess you know for the next 10 years or whatever and he's going to build out the rest of his hall of fame career and it's going to be awesome hopefully for everybody and soto fans but yeah i don't think the first mess car is really going to be that big of a deal here unfortunately yeah all good points um maybe my opinion is more biased because uh he shunned the jays so forget one soto in a mets uniform who cares all right let's move on but you know but that being said i've forgiven otani i figured i've forgiven otani completely now you know it's you just can't deny greatness sometimes right so um that's why i'm looking for otani in a dodgers uniform so maybe a year from now i'll feel the same way about one soto in a mets uniform and look at the mets they're they're world series bound they're doing great you know what i was just gonna say that i'm telling you when it's all said and done soto's probably gonna hit 300 with 35 to 40 bombs and mvp candidate so he's on fire every year yeah and then you have pete alonzo lindor like guys that are just like pete alonzo too just mashing this year so the mets shout out to the mets i know we dog them but uh and you get overshadowed by the yankees a bit always but there's love for you they have a really good team that i think is going to go deep uh this year for sure i agree i agree all right um let's quickly go over some of the inserts that are back in series 2 so they were in previous years and coming back is the golden mirror image variations um remember those it's kind of the uh the alt cards right of each player all 350 base cards will have a golden mirror image variations for the second straight year do you like those do you like golden mirror you're still on them or yeah for for me i i'm all for that because like i said i i addressed this in previous pods too i am not a fan of the experience in paper products in general because there's there's really boring parallels uh there you're going through a lot of base cards so for me anytime you spice things up with short prints or even more not necessarily more inserts maybe more rare inserts i would be looking for uh more a game within the game in in paper product so for me anytime they expand the lineup in that sense i think the user experience increases because we all know we've ripped a lot of paper product and it is so boring so it's like that's why i'd rather rip chrome less cards to rip your gear you're looking for the autos but in paper products you're not necessarily looking for autos like hobby boxes are maybe you get an auto or maybe you get a napkin patch and most likely you get a napkin patch so it's like that sucks like that it's boring and that's what i hated about paper product and then but what i loved about paper product at the same time was the paper parallels and i think those are where tops needs to really focus on and make paper parallels a thing again because there's no love for paper parallels right except the platinum yeah well the platinum yes that's a different topic yeah yeah they should make it out of platinum it's 101 what does it cost like a thousand bucks to make that just do it there you go tops another great idea from our podcast uh johnny you still like the golden mirror image i like it i'm all about you know really solid hits within a box like the more you can provide even if it kind of gets gimmicky it's okay like i think that's what collectors you know you're getting young folks involved into the hobby like you don't want to be spending 250 150 and you don't even get an auto like i think autos should be given like there should be one auto per box or if it's going to be like a game used you know fanatic start flexing your muscle now and give like a big jumbo patch of a game used no more napkin patches if you're going to do one per box like make these boxes make the value give some value back to these these customers instead of just over printing like crazy so 350 base cards golden mirror variations the more hits on top of hits on top of hits that are that you can potentially get in a hobby box i'm all for it yeah me too uh you know like i i i it's a given for me when i rip top series one or two that i'm going to get a napkin patch okay i accepted that that's you know that's but so it's good to have that potential chase of all these other short printed cards whether the golden mirror image or even when we're talking about short printed rookie cards so um and i think the last time i checked it's actually 90 us on the tops website but i know us canadians we get the markup so we're more used to paying more closer to 150 bucks but um it is a more affordable cheap rip if you get it at actual retail price um so speaking of gimmicky i know you just mentioned uh mentioned that uh john signature tunes insert dual auto returns this is when you got the autograph of the baseball player with the musician who um has their walk-up song right so uh you know mike towers and ronald acuna there's a dual auto uh otani's in this one with lupe fiasco that's a name that's interesting and then you'll never see an otani's fiasco dual auto card anywhere else and uh david ortiz they're going back to you know retired players and big sean um anyway signature tunes insert dual auto cards cool gimmicky still or it's a it's another take back on i can't go back on my word a second ago even if gimmicky i'm down for it so i'm down for this too no question i think some of the the the weird pairings will be okay obviously shohei will be like collectible because shohei yes but i think there will be you know in the future if there's ones that are very sentimental that connect together for collectors um whether it's a big name artist in the city with the player or like for example like haesung kim or hasung kim whichever you want to choose and it's like their walk-up song is black pink and like a like a you know famous korean pop group like if there is sort of like this connection sentimental value between the two uh artists and player i think that'll be cool and it'll it'll obviously happen amongst all of these pairings there will be a couple that are but where both are big names or both have some sort of like sentimental collectibility so um yeah i think it's great yeah i'm all for it yeah i i i want to like it i want to like it but i don't know if i like it but i'm okay with it because if i pulled yeah a card like that i'd be like okay someone wants it right and if they're famous yeah like for me if that it's it's a great way as someone who's not necessarily so big on pop culture i guess like i wouldn't like autographs and pop pop pop culture doesn't make sense to me it does because i understand their their impact on society but for me i'm not i would never ever collect i think in in that sense so it's obviously biased but at the same time as someone who's ripping and i pull one of these am i gonna complain no like i would sell yeah i would sell those and i'd be happy with it and if you extrapolate it from a non i guess biased perspective i see how it could work with fanatics because like i said awareness is attention attention is the new currency so if they're collabing otani and lupe for instance that's some serious power in terms of like branding uh awareness attention right so for me it's it goes back to the framework that we've talked about many times on this episode about the marketing side of things so from that perspective it's it makes sense it's i would try it out i would do more collabs uh more engagement and it shows because at the end of the day the the the dollar value is growing within what fanatics is doing in the marketplace so it's obviously working so the marketing is why they're doing it yep i love the creativity and i when i got back into the hobby i i love collecting allen and ginter and they all they've always had those like non-sports celebrity auto autograph cards so this is like right down my alley so i love it it's definitely gimmicky for sure but um i love it as a chase and uh yeah if if i got the otani fiasco that'll be amazing right so i'll probably just keep it and and you know on the on that front you know first pitch cards we don't have to talk about this because it's kind of on the same vein of what we're just discussing but first pitch cards also it's a way to get non-sports celebrities on uh in the set essentially right so um you know i think was the top series one this past year larry david has one yeah you know i i actually want that card but there are you know there are hardcore larry david fans out there i've learned because they're all going for thousands of dollars i can't get one for cheap so yeah at least i'm i'm assuming it's very short printed uh yeah even the base i believe is short printed because it's autograph but um there are base or an autograph there are lower number parallel autograph cards too which are going for yeah even more right so nice so yeah yeah i mean you'll have stars you'll have you know popular celebrity types in these sets that are definitely worth the chase okay let's end off this segment with a couple of new things you can look forward to in top series two i don't know if you guys remember all aces that's not new where it features some of the the best pitchers in the league and it's in the kind of uh looks like the deck of cards yeah and that's the ace they have kings in this year's set and it only features the top batters. What do you think? Interesting. Very interesting. Are they rare? Like are these are these short prints? Yeah. Yeah. Are they short or it's just kind of like... I don't think so because I pulled a few all aces. Yeah, the aces weren't that... I guess they would be short printed because they are technically inserts so they're not going to be mass-produced but they are, I would say, like a softer hit, like type hit and with the right player, right? I think, I don't mind it. Like I said, I like that about collectability. I just don't want all base cards. You know, that's that's what, like Upper Deck, that's Upper Deck's problem. It's like you rip Upper Deck. You just base, base, base, base, base, base, base and then it's like a French base that you don't even know it's a hit and then you're like my box is a dud, right? So it's like that's what paper was and so for me, everything you're listing, it's like yes, I want more of the experience but I would like to see even more. It's like what about a chase of a fan experience with Lupe Fiasco or whatever it may be, right? Like make bigger deals that fanatics can leverage but yeah, going back to the Kings, like it's not gonna sell me on it but I'm okay. This is what I like. Yeah, I mean it is what it is now. Common inserts is not speaking to the masses anymore. It's for the people who are sort of set collecting and it's their little sort of side quest within the set collecting. So in terms of like how it looks and stuff, yeah, that's great but I mean this is not really a big, I think a big news story or anything for sort of your average collector. Definitely, yeah. The value isn't there either. All Aces cards aren't worth that much so I'm guessing all Kings kind of will be the same and I'm glad you brought up the point about set collecting. It could be fun for some collectors that collect that way so that's always a good chase for them but one insert card and this is the last one I have on the list that might be valuable is the K-Zone insert. I don't know if you saw these but it's a die-cut card, right? And there's in the shape of a K and it's for pitchers obviously, strikeout pitchers, but there's also a backwards K die-cut card which are more rare. So people are saying the Paul Skeen's backward K's are gonna go for a thousand. You know like it's the value is already there. Do you like die-cuts in general? Do you like this K? I'm not a die-cut guy. I'm not a die-cut guy. It's a lot of corners on a K. Yeah exactly. Impossible to get a PSA 10. Yeah I don't know why maybe it's basketball I'm just used to like the select die-cuts and just like or like you know just and here's the thing I used to think die-cut cards were the coolest thing in the 90s like I thought they were like this is like this is patches and die-cuts are like amazing but now anytime I get a die-cut I'm like waste of a hit that's that's what I always had the mindset of like I like for instance would you rather have like a like a Luka true color parallel or a Luka die-cut you know I mean you're like oh man I wish I didn't hit the die-cut I wish this was like a true color so it always had that I guess for modern collecting side and maybe it changes maybe it's like I'm like man these die-cuts are the best thing ever but most likely I'm yeah I don't like backwards K that's cool cool concept because backwards K in baseball is like you strike out looking right versus so on the scorecard so on the scorecard people would put K but a backwards K would say you struck him out looking right so there's that kind of dual play on it I I guess yeah but yeah I don't mind it I don't mind it I don't mind all of these but I don't I'm not I'm not I'm not buying serious yeah yeah I'm with you I'm not really into die-cuts at all but I will say backwards K pretty creative if you're talking about die-cuts and I mean you know like as much like I've we've said it before as much as you can complain about all these different hits and how gimmicky they are and stuff like I will 100 out of 100 times take this over like donut circle parallels and you know flower power parallel like I'll take anything creative outside of like adding multiple parallels on top like keep the OG's black independence a whatever keep those but outside of adding all these extra parallels I will take all of these different creative ideas all day long celeb autos backward K's all day I'll take that instead agreed the OG parallels I am glad you brought that up because I forgot to mention top series one didn't left out the black parallels number 210 and then there was an uproar there was an uproar people were pissed off right it's like how can you get rid of one of the most traditional parallels you've ruined my set collection you know I'm trying to go for black pearls over here but top series to they announced that black parallels are back and they're also inserting black parallels from top series one into top series two oh interesting I was I was gonna ask so they changed the number formatting officially like so is is black because black and chrome is out of ten right black in parallels were you know 66 in 2017 67 in 2018 all right increased increased and that was part of what I believe was great about black parallels is that they were rare but not like out of ten rare so there was always a marketplace in a demand that had a market whereas out of ten if they're switching black pair which is sad because they should have never taken out the black parallel because the black parallel in paper is one of the best I think desired parallel if you go back to 2011 pops update trouts those black parallels you know are massive massive cards you go back in the past with any relevant rookie black parallels have always been kind of a chase so yeah parallels need some work with paper product so you're saying the black parallel papers now out of ten no so I just looked at that because I was confused that was a good point to bring up it's numbered to 74 okay 74 so it's it's still the parallel paper parallel so that that's what I was I didn't want tops to do is change a paper parallel to go with chromes kind of just yeah in everything so like for instance camo and paper is out of 25 I don't know if it's the same father's and mother's days out of 50 you know and then independence days 76 blacks increasing every year and then vintage is 99 right and that's all your paper parallels and then you have your golds your rainbow foils that's it that should only be it stop making let's get rid of the rest get rid of the rest and do other other better like short prints yeah like reverse case like like reverse case reverse elves there you go we're always coming with great ideas for tops did they leave out black like was it on purpose they left out black I bet you they didn't I bet you they made a mistake and then they just hiding it under the intern the intern oops we've got to print it like oh yeah let's just pretend like we did on purpose I knew we forgot a color hopefully no one notices we have image sorry sorry can we see an image can you pull up an image or I'll look but I just want to see these parallels if because if it's if they did a crappy job on the Independence Day and the black pair I I didn't look it up but those are the last number of years has been brutal so it's lost so much of his luster like well here's a black yeah that looks nice it pops I like that that doesn't look like a base card and independence yeah let me let me see these parallels and a paper black has always been great yeah I don't love it it's all right they use the dark race reviews that's nice yeah I don't want to use for the independence it's way better than in the last you gotta use a brighter red you gotta let it make it pop a little bit more yeah but the black has always been such a strong rainbow how about how about gold foil or sorry not gold foil gold gold out of 2025 flat gold dirt yeah I love classic classic classic card I know it's the it's not the right gold but it's still classic to me it should be it should be called brown that's not gold yeah exactly oh they did your favorite see they'd spiced it up a bit they they listen to us it's not platinum it's not yeah they're sick of us calling it platinum yeah it's just platinum yeah nice there you go not this one yeah you can see some shine now yeah the pair of pillows are way better in general than previous years but yeah I would like to see that them making a bit bit more of an effort on making parallels kind of like more desirable like they were like I said if you're new to collecting go check out 2018 tops 2019 tops and that's it agreed and yeah I'll end off with this I'm going to fanatics fest next week so they are also I think for top series two there's fanatics fest exclusive remember young there was a I think it's tops chrome last time right yeah fanatics fest exclusive and in those boxes they have parallels the Big Apple refractor parallels and the swinging for the stars that are only found in those fanatics fest boxes those return for top series two and I think they're going for 300 bucks so triple no regular hobby box but I felt like it's really easy to flip those yeah this is so exclusive this is this is I was thinking about that when when we did last year and the thought process is this it's like oh definitely we go early wait in line oh the lineups not that bad I'll buy the max two boxes I'll rip one and maybe sell one and then you realize these aren't gonna like no point in ripping because people are overpaying for this and then it's becomes a flip you double up on the money and you talk about how great fanatics fest was that's it worked this is exactly what happened pay for part of your trip that's gonna be the same review I guess this after I go next week but but they're doing it differently you know how we used to line up but had to line up early and then you know get the box they're using EQL this time so you actually line up online for the next six days better and they choose the people that can buy it at random but you have to pick it up in person if you don't then it gets allocated to someone else oh interesting nice yeah so pros and cons but I think it's better that way so you don't have to spend yeah a couple you know we spend a couple hours lining up but then we got to speak to other hobbyists so that was a side right yeah so there's pros and cons but just a heads up if you're gonna fanatics fest that's how they're doing it this year for those exclusive boxes okay let's move on to our next segment we're bringing back over under all right so this is where I give you a number and then I'm gonna give you a list of four or five cards and then you tell me what the last sold price was if it went over or under the $10,000 mark in this in this case all right so first one 2001 SP authentic golf Tiger Woods you know the card rookie autograph number to 900 of course but graded BGS 9 Auto 10 over under 10,000 Wow I would say it should be over 10,000 if it's under that's a great deal I think yeah I think I think that's a buy if it's under and BGS 9 is a really good grade in that card to be honest so I don't see it falling off too much under 10 so I'm gonna say over over okay saying feel like it's the obvious answer is over so the reason why Clark created this question is the kind of catch-off guard so I'm gonna say under John is on point right yeah so I'm gonna say John has been waiting for this John's been ready for this over and over the last two months waiting waiting for him to come back on the show Johnny you're right $8,988 I think Johnny's gonna sweep this over under yeah all right next one 2023 24 spectra panini spectra there's a color blast card of Victor web and Yama it's an SSP and it's his rookie card BGS 9.5 over under 10,000 I'm gonna say the the Wembley market has softened a lot in general I'm gonna say under okay well this is John's gonna be right no I mean markets soft but man some sometimes on like some of the Instagram posts you see some big one because still going for like monster money so it's crazy I think I'm assuming this is his only colored last right I don't even know I'm gonna say over 10 I think that's crazy money but there's better use for $10,000 but I'm gonna say over 10 the correct answer is over 13,500 Johnny's gonna sweep this I can feel it all right next one I like to kind of do a check every once in a while on some of the more iconic cards so the 2000 Bowman Tom Brady rookie right 2000 Bowman Tom Brady rookie not the chrome but the Bowman paper PSA 10 where do you think it sits now over under 10,000 Man, this is tough because I don't know where they were before, but I'll give you, okay, this is a kind of a guess then. So last year, they were going for about 6k. Oh, 6k. I'm going to say, I'm going to say, oh, this is hard. He is more relevant in the hobby. So I don't know if that has a play on it or not, but we always said Bowman was 6k last year. Which is weird to say, because there hasn't been really anything about Tom Brady, except the card vault. Yeah, except him just being the hobby. And we always say how Bowman, it's the Bowman chrome you want. So I'm going to say, I'm going to say it's under. It's 10k, right? You were saying under 10k? Yeah, I could see it going up, like maybe to eight, but 10, see here again, this could be Clark just tricking us really bad. But this one seems too obvious. Like I got to go under. And John, 8,100 under. Just spot on, eh? John is like even guessing the right numbers, you know? All right, okay, two more quickly. I had to choose a hockey card because I knew John was going to be on. So 2023 upper deck, the cup of Conor Bedard, his rookie logo patch auto. Okay. And I don't know if you know the cup, they're releasing their newer, the cup RPAs in their own slabs, right? So they come in their own slabs. So that's one of those cards that's numbered to 99. Conor Bedard, over or under 10? Yeah. Yes. I'm going to say it's under. Okay. I'm going under. The cup rookie auto patch at a 90 Conor Bedard, like that is, see, it's funny, I'm going to get the hockey one wrong. Watch. But this one has to be over 10. That does, I don't know. See like Victor Wampanyama, which one I'm spending money, like, I mean, maybe I'm a little biased on hockey, but this is like, holy grail, Conor McDavid, like, yeah, this is over 10. I'm buying that over Victor Wampanyama. You're right. The cup RPA is definitely the card to get for most hockey players, right? So for 10,390 over, there you go. Is that a high for that card? I don't know. It has to be a low, right? Or it has. Yeah. But somewhere in between. Yeah. It's regressed, Bedard markets regressed. That had to have been a massive, massive card, like when it released. On release. Yes, I think so. I'll check it later. Okay. This was the hardest one because it's the closest to the 10k mark. Either way. Okay. MJ 1986 Fleer rookie card BGS 8.5 BGS 8.5 MJ. I'm going to say these, these are always on a increase. So I don't know. Sorry. What did you mention before this? It's the closest to the 10k mark. Oh boy. So this is a legit coin flip. Yeah. Yes. It's whether it broke. It happened. I haven't. Yeah. I haven't checked. I haven't checked Jordan's card. I remember the PSA 9 was kind of like in the 17, 18 realm, right? This is a BGS like a P like a PSA eight and a half would be a nice, that's a nice card. A BGS nine. I'm guessing, guessing a BGS nine is over, you know, 10 to 13. So BGS 8.5. Yeah. I'd say under. Yeah. This is like the, you said this is the closest it's going to be like 9, 8, 7, 5 or something like that. Like this is going to be under. All right. Did Johnny go five for five? The answer is under 9,900. Oh my goodness. Welcome back, John. Welcome back to the, to the pod. It was destiny. In a big way. I know you guys usually bat maybe 500 in these kinds of, I'm batting like a hundred in these in these quiz shows. All right. Well done. So we're going to start off our show with our regular weekly segment we call pick one. And as usual, do you want to start things off for us? Yes. And I told you, I'm going to stick with Aaron judge until he becomes underpriced or overpriced. I still think he's underpriced. So I'm going to go every week until, because he's, like I said, he's not stopping. I don't think he's going to stop anytime soon. And we talked about it on the show tops paper parallels. So underrated, I'll give you an example. So we have $2,500 budget. All right. We're going to go into the tops, his flagship image of him jumping. So we know that with the tops Chrome, but this is tops paper. So a BGS nine Memorial day camel. So out of 25, okay. A BGS nine sold for 2,200 bucks. Okay. Which I think is ridiculous. That's cheap. In my opinion, like a camo out of 25, like you don't even see these paper parallels. Like you don't see these exist. Would you spend 2,200, which I think whoever bought that great deal or the same date or a day apart for 2,500 bucks, a black parallel raw at a 66 sold. So a black, raw 25, 200 bucks more, 300 bucks more than the camera. Yeah. Then a BGS nine camo out of 25. So we talked about how desirable the black parallel is, right. And then like, as we see here, it's inflated compared to out of 25 camo, which is not desirable. It is obviously desirable, but not as much as I would say, like a black parallel and the price reflects that. Ooh, that's a good one. That's a good one. But 2,500, regardless, if I'm spending 2,500, I purchase either of those. I'm pretty happy. Yeah. I'll go first. I'm looking at the card right now. 2017 tops was one of those years where you couldn't tell the parallel. Yes, I agree. It wasn't as distinct. Same with Chrome. It's like the corner of the card, you see the difference, but the rest of one is like a full bleed card, right? Not the greatest at the borders, not the greatest. So the black kind of looks regular to me to tell you the truth. If I didn't see a number to 66 anywhere on that card, I wouldn't know it was a black. It doesn't stick out. And the Camel, obviously it's more distinct, but not as much. But it is numbered to 25. It is graded. I feel like the black, unless that corner is perfect, and there might be a reason why it's sold raw, I'm going to expect a PSA 7 or 8. So with that, I'm going to go with the Camel because it's numbered to 25. You can actually tell it's a Camel and it's a BGS 9. That's a good point about the grading. You're kind of guaranteed. Okay, before John, you say your answer, I just want to put a disclaimer out there. In past, having owned both Camel and Black Parallel, it is so much easier to sell a Black Parallel. I'm just throwing it out there. Camels, you're going to get low-balled because there's never going to be a comp. Do we know what a BGS 9 Black would go for? We probably don't know, right? What's the upside in the grading? Anyways, okay. Good luck. Okay, let's leave that part out. I think, dude, I think I'm going Black. I think moving forward, even for us when we got back into the hobby, Black and Independence Day were kind of, they were par. Actually, you could argue maybe Independence Day was even better. But Independence Day is dependent on the look of the card of the year, whereas Black is not really. Black is rock solid. It is a part of top's paper. Everyone desires it. No matter how the card looks, it's just like, oh, that's the Black out of 67 or 66 or whatever. That's the best parallel chase with a lot of comps. So it kind of transacts really well. It's very liquid. So I think going forward, it's going to be the same thing regardless of the look. It's not look dependent. It's not, it doesn't matter about IPL. So for me, it's the Black. I think as, you know, whoever the player is and their prices pop off like an Otani, some of the biggest, biggest, most desirable parallels are the ones that are going to first like really pop off in terms of price. So for me, it's the Black. It has the potential. It has the history. It has everything. Everyone, everyone likes it, you know, liquidity, et cetera, et cetera. Black for me. Before Hyung answers, and I think I know where he's going to go anyway, but I did find a BGS9 comp of a Black, but it was sold, it was sold October 2024. So this is before he's doing what he's doing now, 1650. Crazy. Whoa. That's what I'm saying. 1650. I'm telling you. That's the deal of the year. We've been shouting it. It's like Aaron Judge paper parallels. There's a lot of players out there, even Otani paper parallels, super undervalued from a long-term perspective. But this one, 2,500 bucks, I think is, if I have that money and I purchased either one, I would be happy regardless. And if I had to pick one, through experience, I would normally pick the Black. But with this particular card, I think I'm going to go with the Camo. Like I just, yeah, I would lock in the good, great, I think a BGS9 and at a 25 of Aaron Judge, someone who's going to be probably one of the best New York Yankee ever, right? Like this is big, big time, like flagship parallel, right? And Black is too. Like John was saying, I don't remember, I always recall Topps update Trout Black being like a massive, massive card. And that history always repeats itself. So there's that side of this. The only kicker is an overpriced Raw, almost. If you're paying overpriced Raw as opposed to undervalued, like guaranteed a BGS9, I'm happy with it. So in this case, I'm going to go Camo, although I would say it'd be way tougher to sell the BGS9 in the future. Right. Right. I feel like you haven't just pulled a John. I did. I totally thought you were going to go Black. It's his presence. It's his aura. Everything's just rubbing off on me now. This is a John-themed show today. So all right, I'll go next because it has Aaron Judge and then we could close off with John at the end. But Aaron Judge, and I feel like this is going to go quickly. His orange refractor, I'm going $50,000. But they both sold for $50K, these two cards I'm going to name. First one, Aaron Judge, his first Bowman Chrome, 2013. Orange number 25, BGS9.5, Auto 10. On the other side, you got the 2011 Bowman Chrome prospect, orange, number 25, rookie auto of, prospect auto of Bryce Harper, PSA 10, also sold for $50K within the last month. Which one are you going for, Bryce or Judge? Bryce is PSA 10, Judge is BGS9.5. It's not even close for me. They're asking me to choose the player and for me, it's like Judge. Doesn't matter. Like for me, something like that card, that is massive. That is a big time Judge card. And same with the Bryce Harper, don't get me wrong, but like we're talking Aaron Judge and Aaron Judge is Shohei Otani type like player right now. So yeah, I got to go Judge. You guys know how I kind of felt about Judge in the past, right? Like he's sort of like this up and down player. One year he hit 60, one year he's not as great, one year he's amazing, one year he's not great in the playoffs. And there are believers, but there's also skeptics, but I think this year he's finally kind of cementing his floor in terms of investment. I think he's kind of solidifying his spot in the baseball universe. And like Hyung said, this guy at this point in his trajectory, he could go down as one of the Yankee greats, like right up there with the best of the best. So for me, being sort of like a Judge skeptic in the past, I'm on the Judge train. I'm with Hyung, I think this is an easy one. Bryce Harper is great. He's got big time fans, he's a big time player, he's well on his way to the Hall of Fame career I think everybody predicted he would have. But Judge is kind of, it looks like he's on a different level in terms of where he'll finish in his career if he continues down this path for the next, whatever remaining years he has of his peak. So I don't know, for me, for that kind of money, I think Judge is an easy pick. You know what? I can't believe the disrespect on Bryce Harper you guys are giving. Bryce Harper is an amazing player, but you know where I'm going with this, I'm going with Aaron Judge as well. It's the Aaron Judge tweet. He's exactly what you just said John. I was always up and down too, like oh he's going to get injured, but this year I'm kind of all in as well, just for all the reasons you just mentioned. So I knew that would be a quick one. especially after Hyung's pick one. So Aaron Judge, we're all on the Aaron Judge train right now. So there you go. Okay, John, last one goes to you. Yeah, so I'm actually going to go NBA. And I feel like you guys... The Lamello draft class here used to be a two-headed monster with Lamello and Anthony Edwards. But I think that's changed. There's a different two-headed monster now. And we're looking at Tyrese Halliburton from that same draft class. So we're going Tyrese Halliburton, Silver Prism, PSA 10, rookie year 2020. It's topping out kind of around the $400 mark. Like a nice round number. Anthony Edwards versus Anthony Edwards, same year, Silver Prism. The next MJ, some people say. We're looking at topping out right now about $700. For Silver? For Silver, yeah. So Anthony Edwards at $700, PSA 10 versus Tyrese Halliburton at $400, PSA 10. I'm paying... I'll go first, Clark. This is an easy one for me. I'm going... Me too. I'm going Anthony Edwards 100%. I would do that in a heartbeat. I would overpay for Anthony Edwards compared to Halliburton. Not saying that... Well, one, Silver Prisms, that's probably one of the worst cards you could pick because they're mass-produced at that time. Wow, how times have changed. We all know. We all know. We all know. We all were in the trap until liquidity proved us wrong because they weren't as liquid. And we called it though. We said it was way too many Silvers for it to keep that demand. So one, that $400 to $700 marker, yes, it's a big variance in terms of buying high versus buying the good deal. But in this case, I'm going with the player. I believe Anthony Edwards is going to continue to do crazy stuff. He's still young. This guy's 24 years old and he's the exciting player. He's the marketing, marketable player. So for me, it's a no-brainer because I could make my money way quicker, the $700 way quicker on Anthony Edwards. Yeah. So Hyung would choose Antman in a heartbeat. I would choose Antman in half a heartbeat. Okay. This is really easy. I think the upside play, kind of what Hyung was mentioning, the upside play is just too great to not pay the $700 premium on Antman. And I think Tyrese Halliburton, I think he's proving a lot of people wrong, but I also believe right now at least in the $400 market, it's kind of recency bias too, right? The Pacers could win the championship. They're up 2-1 as we record. So that might even go above $400. But I think the upside mid to long-term is still with Antman because I think the Timberwolves are still a good team. And if they win, that card's going to be greater than $700. So Antman for me. Man, Pacers are on a generational playoff run. I don't know, what was it? Three or four 20-point comebacks or whatever the stat was. This is something we've never seen before. And if they end up winning, I mean, Halliburton is going to be on that Reggie Miller clutch. He's on that trajectory. So we could be, again, underestimating Halliburton. At $400, it's gone up. You could have scored Tyrese Halliburton a month and a half ago for $150. So whoever had it, was holding on it, you guys did well. With that being said, I thought this was going to be a better debate, but I think you guys also talked me into Anthony Edwards. I was going to pick Halliburton, but Anthony Edwards- Halliburton at $150 is different. For sure. That was a steal. That was really underrated. But I think Halliburton has a chance to win. He hasn't won anything yet. So if he wins, he's on a certain status. He has an ability to win multiple. I think so does Anthony Edwards. And Anthony Edwards, I don't know. When he's on, he's like KD. He's a scoring machine, unstoppable. And I think he's got championships written on his name. So yeah, I'm with you guys. I'm buying the buy low for Anthony Edwards over the buy high on Halliburton. Good one. The correct answer actually is what Hyung likes to do, give a third option is SGA. Okay. If it's market tanks because of this, give me SGA. With the Canadian bias. Or fourth option, stay away from silvers. That's Hyung's answer actually. Stay away from silvers. All right. Another great show guys. John, glad to have you back. And yeah, hope you guys enjoyed this episode. If you did, we appreciate a five-star rating and a good comment. That helps us out a lot. So yeah, we'll see you again next week for a brand new show. Talk to you then. Bye. Hey, thanks for listening to Cards to the Moon. We'd really appreciate you subscribing to our podcast wherever you listen to your podcasts. And you can also connect with each of us on Instagram at 5cardguys. Or you can follow Hyung at Integrity Sports Cards or John at TradeUatRecess. You can also check us out at 5cardguys.com. Thanks again and hope to connect soon.