Is GameStop CEO Trolling The Media With eBay Bid?; Examining The State Of The Hobby; Guessing The Best Baseball Rookie Card Class

You're listening to Cards to the Moon, a podcast about trading cards from both a collector and investor perspective. We hope you'll stick around for the ride as we take a deep dive into the state of the hobby, share some hot takes, hopefully some useful advice and fun stories along the way. Hey guys, welcome back to Cards to the Moon. This is episode 367, my name is Clark from 5cardguys.com, you can also find me at 5cardguys on Instagram, YouTube, Facebook, and on TikTok. Co-hosting with me today is Hyung, he's back from Korea to talk sports cards again, and John, he's also with us. So we got the original crew back, I think we've been joking off air that it feels like it's been a year since we were back together, the three of us, but it's always great when we have the original crew back. But first, before we get into it, Hyung, do you have a good time in Korea, are you glad to be back? What's the update? You know what, it's always, as you guys can testify, it's always a good time, but glad to be back. There's nothing better than, you know, the convenience of home, so I'm happy, yeah, I'm definitely happy to be back. And I know Hyung, you and I were talking in your studio last week how it's a little challenging when you're on the other side of the world, and the time zone difference is, it messes you up, you're up when everyone else is asleep, and then you're asleep when everyone else is up, it kind of, you kind of lose that community in a way, because you're not up at the same time, right? But then you're the, you get the D-gens on Facebook groups that are late-night ripping postage cards, so I got my dosage of sports card hobby nonsense. That's true, you could take advantage, they're probably getting tired, but you're like up and ready to go. Hustling and bustling, yeah. Yes, I didn't even think about that, but that is true. Alright, off the top, I just want to quickly get your thoughts on something that seemed to come out of left field, and that is the news that GameStop, that they're trying to acquire eBay for $56 billion. So I don't think a lot of people are taking this too seriously, because GameStop is, I believe, a quarter of the size financially of eBay, and that of course begs the question of where GameStop will get the $56 billion. We do have partial answers, GameStop is reportedly worth $9 billion, apparently TD is willing to put up $20 billion, and so if you do the math, that leaves a shortfall of $25-26 billion, in which Ryan Cohen, the CEO of GameStop, said in an interview, which by many accounts went horribly because of the lack of details he offered, but he said it would be a half cash, half stock offer, and that's become a meme, his half cash, half stock offer. So in a nutshell, if GameStop has more than half the deal lined up in cash, in a 50-50 cash stock deal, that would mean they'd have to pay the remaining amount by giving the rest to eBay shareholders, newly issued stock. So to simplify it even more, if GameStop acquires eBay, the company, the new company will pretty much look like eBay, because it's the larger company right now, but a larger eBay that now has physical stores, i.e. GameStop, but will also be in debt about $25 billion. So before we get into how it could impact the hobby, does this deal make sense to you guys? Like, if you're GameStop, I think the benefits are more obvious, you're pretty much supercharging and growing the company, acquiring eBay, a trusted brand, but also taking on huge debt on one side. But if you're an eBay shareholder, I guess you can get paid out nicely and also have the upside of having more shares in this new company, but I don't know if that's worth it. What do you guys think about this whole deal in general? Wow. Yeah, this is a lot to unpack, because I think what we see on TV is kind of everybody's reaction to it saying it's, it doesn't make sense from that standpoint. But from if you really break it down, it 100% makes sense for Ryan Cohen and what he's been trying to do, like I, like if you followed the GameStop saga, you know, he's always believed that it's it was undervalued. And I think from an ecosystem perspective, we're talking strictly business like, and by no means am I saying this is going to work out, because there's a lot to unpack. But one, obviously, con is, you know, accruing that massive, massive debt, and being leveraged with debt. But at the same time, I think from a business standpoint, it does make sense with based on where GameStop kind of wants to go, because I think they had no direction. Because there was no simple way of getting GameStop out of where they were, but something massive where it was almost like paradigm shifting, a totally change of direction. Because Ryan Cohen is right, he sees the value. He sees where the marketplace is going. There's no denial that, you know, eBay is massive now. And it's the number one trading platform for sports cards, and, you know, obviously other items, but sports card being the main factor. And also, you know, eBay's involvement with TCG Player, you know, there's a lot of crossover in terms of GameStop and what they could provide, as well as their holding of eBay itself. I believe GameStop has a minority share, I think less than 5%, but still a big chunk of eBay. And from that standpoint, it makes a lot of sense from a business standpoint. If I was Ryan Cohen, and I'm a big Ryan Cohen believer, because, you know, what he ultimately stands for is he's against kind of like the big Wall Street. He's been a proven entrepreneur, you know, sold his company for $3.5 billion to PetSmart. So he understands e-commerce before e-commerce blew up. He's one of the most successful e-commerce businessmen. He was the leader in a company called GameStop that nobody believed in, and wiggled his way into, you know, being a master at meme culture, and just in general, a cult following, right? So for me, it's, do I believe in Ryan Cohen? It's not necessarily, do I believe in the vision? It's crazy, and there's a lot of hurdles, but I believe in Ryan Cohen. That's why I like it. In terms of like, does it logistically make sense? Absolutely not right now, because obviously the debt, and would eBay, why would eBay want to sell? They're making tons of profit, right? So it would almost have to be an overpay, and there has to be massive upside for eBay. But yeah, if Cohen could pull this off, absolute genius, and he would literally take GameStop to the moon. Yeah. Wow. I love that perspective, because I feel like anything you see online right now, Ryan Cohen's a joke. So it's good to have that counterbalance. The interview was terrible. Like it was so bad to the point where, yeah, you definitely don't want to rely on that to be his factor. But people who've been around understand what he's about. His resume speaks for itself, for sure. I agree. What do you think, John? So I saw the headline, and that's it. So I'm so glad that Hyung provided some context into who Ryan Cohen is. That kind of helps shape my thought a little bit. And then, Clark, I'm glad you kind of gave a little bit of context on the financial aspect of it. Because when I saw the headline, and by the way, I didn't see the interview, like literally I just saw the headline. And I don't invest in stocks, I mean, besides some of my retirement stuff, but we all know GameStop was in pop culture for a little while. The first thing I just thought was, I had no idea GameStop had that kind of money to buy eBay. That seems absurd. And I'm glad you provided the financial context, because they don't have that kind of money, and they got to make it up somehow. It does seem like a pipe dream. I really don't know, strictly from a casual observation point of view, I don't know what to think. Like, I'm glad Hyung gave some context. It seems like this could be something that could be great for the hobby if Ryan Cohn pulls it off, somebody that is kind of on the side of the hobby and wanting to make it grow further. So I think that seems positive. Outside of that, the thought of, I think going back to a long time, we kind of talked about before GameStop started doing submissions and trading cards and stuff, we talked about it'd be great if eBay kind of had a storefront, you know, and a Walmart or something. And this looks like it could be coming true, like what we kind of talked about, where there's just less and less barriers to folks that want to sell their cards or fork the card market to be a lot more liquid. If we can get to a point where it's kind of like a wealth symbol, you can just get on your phone and start trading and you don't have to really worry about shipping or things getting lost. If it was eventually, you know, you could submit, you can drop off your eBay products right at GameStop. They do all the work for you. You pay a little bit of a premium, whatever it is, that would be amazing because you really get rid of the fears of, again, like we're seeing this news every day, PostOffice is losing your cards. And I don't know if you guys saw a post that Roy put up, but, you know, somebody observed that USPS is doing like an auction on like lost or the government, I don't know, that's insane. That's shady. Totally. And when I think about it, I did lose like a big Juan Soto card a long time ago to the mail. And I think it was in the Atlanta because they mentioned the Atlanta area and I think it did stop by Atlanta and that's where it got lost, which made me think, oh man, that all seems really shady. But anyways. Yeah. It's in the USPS auction right now. Yeah. Seriously. But it seems it's a, it seems a bit of a pipe dream obviously still, but. If it were to happen, I think it's a big positive for the hobby. I'm glad you brought that up, John, because I was thinking of the exact same thing where if eBay had a storefront and, you know, that's a place where you can drop off your cards. Yeah. You get rid of all your fears, right? Of like it getting lost because it's really about liability. You don't want to take that on yourself. And you know, at the same time, I was thinking like, are we going back in time? You know, where we cut out the middleman because of technology made a lot of things cheaper. But now we want storefronts again, where, you know, we want the middleman back in, but it's because we don't want to take on that liability. So that's why it makes sense to me now, especially with the hobby. And we'll talk about this later in the hobby headline segment. Like it's becoming more lucrative every day now. Like the cards that we transact are not in the hundreds anymore. It's in the thousands and tens of thousands for a lot of these collectors now. So you want that kind of peace of mind. And I think that's what it does. So that kind of leads to my next thought, which is, it just makes more sense to me that eBay would acquire GameStop and then take on its physical infrastructure. That makes sense to me if eBay wanted to do that rather than the other way around, right? So I think a lot of people will agree with me on that. But the theory that I have, and you kind of hinted at it, Hyung, early on, which is what is going on with GameStop trying to acquire eBay. I think Ryan Cohen is playing a game behind the game right now, meaning I think he knows this acquisition offer is unrealistic. I don't think he thinks it's going to happen. But I think the true intention is really to get the spotlight on GameStop and how they're trying to rebrand as a true collectibles and cards company instead of what I believe people still know them as, a video game retailer. It's hard to shake that off because they've been that way for so many years. Even when I go to GameStop, you still see video games and you're like, okay, I don't buy video games anymore. But I do see more and more cards and collectibles. And I think what Ryan Cohen is trying to do is pivot hard to the collectible space because that's where the money is at right now. So what better way to do it than just create this mass media attention by just throwing out an outlandish acquisition offer to a company that's four or five times bigger than you are. Still no definitive way on how you're going to raise the capital other than issue 2x the number of stocks, which doesn't make sense for a lot of people. But like I said, I think that's not his intention. I think it's just to kind of get the name GameStop out there and say like, hey, we're actually serious about the collectibles business. Even though this isn't going to happen with eBay, I wouldn't be surprised in the near future if there's a smaller announcement that GameStop will acquire something in the collectible space, that market, and because it's just all about rebranding at this point for Ryan Cohen. So that's my theory. That's my thought. I like it. That sounds spot on. That's a great observation. Well, and that's the thing. The thing with Ryan Cohen is it's not every move is so intentional with him because he he believes in the larger picture of things. So, you know, I mean, if he truly believed in GameStop, because he truly believed that it was undervalued, and he was willing to put his own kind of name and money on the line. It's because he believes in something. So whether it's, you know what, I believe in this industry, or I believe in the future of GameStop, that it's not limited to just video games, that it's game culture, it's in sports cards, and TCG, all that is so popular right now that he's like, I need to be relevant and intentional with my move. Nothing has changed to date. This is the reason why I, you know, purchased a majority share of GameStop in the first place is because I believe in the future of GameStop, what that actually looks like nobody knew within the last two years, because nobody could even say that the hobby was going to be where it is today, right with these crazy evaluations. So that's why I think never I this is what I learned, you never bet against the man. You know, I mean, regardless of the the hurdles, they have to go. It's like if you truly believe in the guy driving the ship. And he he's he has a proof of concept already that he's he's been it and he has this grand vision. I would bet on the guy. So regardless, yeah, I think he's whether it's a marketing stunt, or, you know, doing something to push something forward is definitely something that he's he's intentionally doing. All right, hold on. I'm just gonna buy some GameStop stock right now. Hey, there's but usually on mergers, there's a crash before a correction. But here's, I'm gonna close this segment by this observation. I don't know if you saw it, but I this is why I also think Ryan Cohen is definitely smarter than he appears. I feel like he's kind of trolling everyone in the media right now. Because he listed some of his things on eBay. I don't know if you saw that. And he tweeted, quote, I'm selling stuff on eBay to pay for eBay quote, amazing. And he posted his eBay account link. And apparently I just read it this morning. eBay suspended his account. But then when I clicked on the link, it's back up. Okay, so I guess eBay is like, this is this isn't worth our while. Let's put it back up. And and I didn't know this too. Maybe you guys did. But I didn't know Ryan Cohen was Canadian. I is Montreal from Montreal. And I didn't clue in until I saw some of his eBay listings and included a black Guerrero senior, Larry Walker and a Randy Johnson baseball cards all in their Montreal Expos uniform, amazing as well as a 1987. Oh, peachy card of Patrick Wah. That's what you can buy on his eBay, eBay account right now. It's on bids. So if you're, if you're like, I want to own something of Ryan Cohen's. There you go. That's pretty cool. That's pretty cool. So we'll see how the saga plays out. But I think Yeah, I think this this could be a genius play by Ryan Cohen of GameStop. All right, let's move on to hobby headlines. Okay, the whole GameStop thing could have been a hobby segment on this zone. But I got another one for you guys. For today's episode, there was an interesting Sports Illustrated article that came out recently. And it was titled the state of the hobby, booming card sales, grading and wax prices. And the article makes the case that the financial side of the hobby looks stronger than ever. But yes, it's still in a state of flux. Alright, so like we've done in the past, I'll go over some quotes or some key points in the article. And then we can discuss our thoughts on them one at a time. Alright, the first one, I just want to alert you guys to the card sales numbers for March over the past eight years. Alright, so this is March card sales numbers. Starting with 2019 20. There's been 22 million card sales. The year after 2020 went up to 25.79 million 2021. Here we go. We're going the COVID era. One from 25 million to 185 million. So huge jump. 2022. Now we're right in it. 208 million. So that was another all time high. 2023. There's the regression a bit 175 million. Now 2024 was a slight bounce back 225 million. Also breaking a record that year in March 2025. This past year, or sorry, last year, went from 225 million in sales in March to 303 million. So that was a new record. And then 2026. This March, we have all the numbers now went from 303 million to guess what number if you haven't seen it already? What would you guess? I would say double. Okay, john. Oh, I was gonna guess in the 400s. It's a bullish. It's a bullish growth, man. I'm telling you that the hobby is hot. The hobby is hot. He's absolutely right. doubled 606 million. This past March exactly double 600 million is a lot. That's, that's a brand new record. Of course. Yeah. So I was gonna ask if that surprised you. But obviously, it does for a lot of us. We've been side by side with this. We've been saying this, you know what I mean? We've been calling play by play on this since 2019. Really, or 2020. Where, you know, we knew that there was going to be a retraction, you know, and, but we still believed in the future of the hobby. And it hasn't even touched kind of like, the surface of what it was, right. So that's why I just going through the years that these are very specific graphs with any bullish market, right? It's like you have that one pull back, and then it's skyrocket from there. And that's what we're witnessing. We're right in the second boom, I say, I say in the car hobby, and it's not necessarily Oh, because the hobby is so hot. It's, there's so much going on. And there's so much activity. And there's so many people in the hobby. And marketing and media becomes our number one way of communicating. Now. It's, it's a marriage that like, you know what, it's the best case scenario for the hobby, in my opinion. And that's what we were kind of harping on. So I'm not too surprised, but I am shocked to actually see it in person. Yeah, for sure. I totally agree. Number, sorry, is that number, the number of car individual cards that have been transacted, or the number of revenues, actions, or revenue, full revenue for the month of March for those those years? Yeah, right. Yeah. Including wax, right? Like break breaking? I guess I would assume break. Yeah, industry humongous component of the of the rise. I would assume so. Yeah, car sales numbers would encompass all that. Right? Yeah, I mean, I, you're kind of so I'm obviously surprised by the number because I was guessing 400. But we're moving into 600. But when you think about it, it makes sense. Like when you think of how crazy 2021 was, when we all of us were kind of getting back into it. When you look at it now, there are so many more collectors in the space, like so many who you it's very clearly evident if you've gone into any of the major shows, if you're in the Toronto Expo, or down in the States, you could probably witness it just going into a show seeing how many more people there are this year than previous years. So that's one and then obviously, for me, like looking at the breaking component that is controlling the market right now in terms of like wax prices like that is just you, you, you know, for a regular collector, you can't even get into wax because of breaking, right? And just so many, aside from collectors, I would think like 50% of the hobby is people that sort of like gambling component, like people just looking to have a good time looking to get into breaks and get into not really caring about, you know, the little singles and the small cards that they get, they're just breaking to try and hit the big chase or whatever it is in that product, right? So I think you have the collectors that the collector space that has clearly grown even since COVID, it's grown, and there's a lot more people but then you have the additional, you know, maybe not collectors, but people just wanting to kind of dip their toes into sports cards and the investment side of sports cards. Yeah. Yeah, no, for sure. And, you know, I'll also add, obviously, a big component to that growth is TCG, huge contributor of that number, for sure. If you look at the card ladder index, every single index is up. It's all in the green, every single one, including Star Wars, basketball, and particularly for sports, basketball is 50% increase year over year. And this might surprise you, guess which sport has seen a 127% increase year over year, and it's not one of the main four. What sport do you think would have seen relatively speaking? No, I mean, you put them in the fourth, fourth, fourth category. What would the fourth be for you? Yeah, I guess it would be it'd be hockey, but yeah, it would be soccer. F1. Good, both good guesses. Both good guesses. It's not soccer. It's not F1. It's tennis. It's a huge increase this past year. Yeah. So and I think we're both in agreement, or all in agreement that we don't see it as a bubble, but it's it's just feels a lot different than 2021. There's a higher base higher floor. So many more collectors like you're saying, John, right now. And, and young, like you're saying, we're that this is why we're still doing the pod. We just believe that even during the regression, this is totally expected didn't come out of left field for us. And we're just waiting for that bounce back, which is what we're witnessing right now. And that's and I hear always like you hear about, oh, they're printing to the moon print runs this. You got to understand, man, it's still supply demand supply demand works the same way. If there's just so much demand, because there's so many people in the hobby, as long as that's a healthy mix, the print runs will play in your favor, because now the really super low print runs you had every chance to get early, you know, and you know, your knowledge now within that there's so much opportunity in the future as well. Because it's like, do you see the hobby regressing at this point? Or are we still in the infant stages of potentially making it even more when we see the billion dollar months? You know, in the in the future? It's like, where are you going to where are you going to position yourself? Are you going to say that, oh, this is meant to crash or the hobby's dead because I can't rip anymore for an affordable price. Those aren't valid reasons why the hobby is not going to move whether you like it or not. And I get it. It's like as a hobbyist, those are the things that you always hear. But realistically, the marketplace doesn't care. And, you know, we used to say, if you think about the numbers, like when when we started back 2019, 2020, you know, the numbers were at $20 million. And now we're talking 600 million, you know, that's 30 times the amount right where we said in a $20 million market, an Otani with 1000 print run, you know, that should equate to a 30,000 print run at the same supply demand gap, right. So for me, it's like, the opportunities are there, especially in a growing market. And that's the way you need to be looking at it right now. If it's like if we would all want to buy what we could buy in a $20 million month market, you know, back in March, if we can, if we all could go back, I guarantee you, every one of us would be like, hey, we're spending based based on a $600 million 2026. Right? 100% Yeah. And just to echo your point, and we'll go to the next next point after this, but if you believe the market is still growing, we're at 606 million. Now, I have no doubt that we're going to hit a billion dollar month at some point in the near future. All that's really needed is we just need to slightly recalibrate, right? Like you can't go wish back that, you know, that we're back in 2020 or 2019. But if you think the market is still growing, in a way, we're still early. And that means there's so many, there's so much more opportunity still to really do well for yourself in the hobby. If you believe the market's going to continue to grow. So I'm just echoing your point exactly. But yeah, I mean, three, four or five years was, I'm pretty sure that we're still going to be doing this podcast. And we're like, guys, can you believe it? We're a billion dollar month, we just hit a billion dollar month in the hobby. So all right. You know what else? What else is also going up? But this point number two, card grading, a year over year, it's up right now by 43%. In April of this year, a new record was set with 3.1 million cards graded. And obviously PSA is number one. CGC is number two, that might not be surprising anymore with the growth of TCG cards. But good old Beckett, you know, the one we love the most on this pod. Well, Hyung and I, at least, but it's at the number three spot with a 70% year over year growth. But SCC is down 70% year over year. So I guess Beckett kind of took over. And then TAG, they're up 27% year over year. So every grading company is on a nice tear except SGC. So my two questions for you guys. First, speaking of SGC, is it RIP for SGC? And two, what do you think of this, you know, just Beckett rising as it is right now? Is it because Collectors Inc now owns Beckett? That begs the question, can we expect upcharges now for BGS in the near future? I want to, you know, we were just at the expo this past week. And our booth was right beside the Beckett booth. And I can tell you, because I witnessed it, the lines for Beckett were huge. Like every single day. If you weren't there first thing in the morning, you're waiting in line for at least two hours. That was kind of the expected waiting time and that's despite the fact that the cost of grading Beckett's Labs have doubled since Collector's Inc took over. So anyway, that's a two-parter. Your thoughts on SGC and Beckett. So Beckett for me, you know, the product was never bad. The product was always superior and good and the marketplace suffered because of the people running it and for me, it's like this was needed regardless of your stance at it because I love Beckett as a product. The problem is accessibility and the willing to want to send a card in because like I said, you're not, the times have been horrendous in terms of turnaround, support, service. It just wasn't there. So for me, I'm not surprised with the move and I think it's just proof that what Collector's is doing with PSA regardless of whether you like PSA or not or their money grab, you know, they're operational at scale and that's the number one thing that is needed in the hobby is can it service the $600 million months, right? That's all we need is because if the product is superior, right, all you have to do is put someone in there that knows what they're doing in terms of operational. Now this is not to say that I agree and, you know, I'm happy that PSA, you know, took over Beckett. I'm just happy that Beckett is back in terms of, hey, I think Beckett slabs are great. I think I like the grading system. I like the black label. I think the black label has its own brand. I'm big old school guy where I used to look at the Beckett price guide. So like the brand itself is super strong. I'm just happy that someone's, you know, providing something whether SGC was kind of like just, you know, floating out there so, you know, it could negotiate this Beckett deal. I think it really doesn't matter at this point, but I would hope that they could still, you know, be relevant because like I said, I see some PS or SGC slabs, SGC 10 slabs for like half the price of PSA. I think there's so much value and I think users will agree that, you know what, I'll take an SGC at 50% of the value at PSA 10 any day of a relevant card. And I think everybody could agree that the value is there. And as long as that mindset still stays, I think SGC could still hold up and still could provide somewhat position in the marketplace. Before you go on, John, I love that point because we used to talk about Beckett slabs exact same way, like so much value in Beckett slabs, that's, you know, compared to BGS 95 compared to a PSA 10, like I'd rather pay 50 or 60% of the PSA 10 value for BGS 95. It's kind of flipped a little bit. Now we're like, you know, SGC 10, like you're saying, I'm like more interested in looking at those and I'm like, this might be a good crossover or like there might be better value in the SGC 10 if it can't be worth 40% of a PSA 10. I think it's crazy how some of these SGC 10 cards are evaluated. But anyway, I thought it was funny that now we're talking about SGC cards in the same way we talked about Beckett a year or two years ago. But yeah, John, what are your thoughts? Bonjour, compadre. It's the Priceline Negotiator. How do I negotiate so many great travel deals? My greatest gadget, the Priceline app. It's got hotel deals, flight deals, rental car deals, all of those deals in a bundle, game day deals, concert trip deals. No one deals more deals than Priceline. Hold your horses. There's more. The app lets you filter hotels by neighborhood, vibe, star level, and amenities like pools and spas and beachfronts and wait, I'm not done. Stop cutting me off. Priceline. Yeah, I'm, I think when you look at it, you're not too surprised at the Beckett number. It's good to hear about the surprising how long the lines were in terms of the Beckett grading submission at the expo, but I'm not going to give Beckett credit yet. I think they are also, again, kind of falling ass backwards on a rebound. And for me, I think it's, when I think about it, it's three things. Number one, TCG is dominating the grading space. And I don't like, Roy knows the prices. I don't really follow the prices, but I have seen snippets of Instagram posts and black label cards, if it, whether it's one piece or star Wars or Pokemon, the price is insane. And I've seen people submitting like 800 cards of Pokemon or one piece or whatever to try and hit one or two black labels, which normally they actually do. And you just make up the cost right there and you can probably resubmit all the rest at PSA. I, so I think TCG is one component of the rebound. I think you, you just, you just talked about it. I think the other component is the fact that for a while now you saw BGS nine, five min gems kind of are floating around the price of PSA nines. And I think enough people caught on and said, yo, that's great value. You can just buy it and crack it, resubmit it, or do whatever you want with it. And now when you look at prices, I don't know about the Pokemon series. I assume it's very similar, but in the sports card space, it's not the same as PSA nine. Like you're now seeing BGS min gems being like a decent, not, you know, we're not talking double or anything, it's, but it's not the same as PSA nine. So if you, if you're submitting to either PSA or whatever, and you know, I think this one is a little off, like it's again, now it's worth it to kind of go to Beckett to try to get that min gem, because you are going to get that ROI. So I think that's another one. And the third one is I think the turnaround times. So PSA have had notable delays in turnaround times. And I think because there's value in BGS and BGS nine fives and, you know, true gem pluses and stuff like that, I think a lot of people are kind of trying to see what's an alternative to get some of their cards graded a lot quicker. And I, to be honest, I'm not sure what the Beckett turnaround times are, but I would think of that. I've seen enough people sound off on Instagram posts and social media, how frustrated they are at the turnaround times at PSA. So I would imagine that is also a component. So I don't think it's something that Beckett really did. I really think they're kind of, you know, kind of falling ass backwards again into a rebound. And that's, that's actually great news, because I think OGs like us want to see Beckett succeed. Like that is a brand that we all grew up with. As much as I hate on Beckett, I do like, I don't, I don't actually mind it. Like I do want to see them succeed. So it's, it's, it's definitely, and, and, you know, you, although PSA now owns them, but you do want to see some competition within the grading space. I don't even know if that makes sense anymore, but yeah, actually, actually, we'll touch upon that very briefly at the very end, but I agree with all your points. Yeah. And it's fair that you, you and others will think that Beckett is just kind of capitalizing just on because of how hot the hobby is right now. But, but I think BGS is also taking a play from the PSA playbook. Obviously it makes sense now because they're owned by the same parent company. Actually at the expo, they had to, they, they had to stop taking orders for same day or, you know, like a end of show turnaround time because they got so busy, you know? So I think, I think there's going to be growing pains for Beckett too now, you know, as they, as they try to scale, just like PSA, they need more people to grade and, and I think, I think we're going to see that, but that's, that, that's the thing where I'm bullish on this is PSA has the infrastructure to scale. So it would, it would be, cause part of the issue with Beckett was they didn't necessarily have the leadership or management or systems in place that allowed them to take on more customers. So a big part of that is, you know, why would PSA acquire someone like Beckett? They know that they have a plug and play solution to kind of make that from if they bought it for a hundred million or whatever it was to a $500 million just on volume and system infrastructure where they could literally plug and play what they're doing at PSA in terms of logistical and operational and use it for Beckett. So that's a thing that I think is going to improve. Like I would, I would assume immediately. And that was kind of their plan to really bring up the value of Beckett because like I said, we go back to the fundamentals of what the valuation of the whole industry is, how many people are grading and as someone running PSA or collectors in general, you're just looking at opportunity. Okay. If there's 600 million people or $600 million of revenue in March in general, how much is that in grading and how can I capitalize it? Just make sure that I'm able to fulfill as many orders as possible. To me, it's a no brainer. It's low hanging fruit. So it's something that I think it's on us to expect collectors to bring Beckett up to the standard it needs to be. Totally agree. And I think it's going to happen. I think what collectors is doing is they're kind of now that they have BGS too, that yeah, there's more different avenues where you could submit your cards and so hopefully they'll alleviate some of the weight or turnaround times wherever you want to submit it to, whether it's PSA or BGS. I think SGC had that function for a while until pretty much PSA seemed to have totally given up on SGC, which is why I'll say the only thing I'll say about SGC is, and we've been saying it for a while on this podcast, just become a pure vintage play. Make it an elite vintage grading service. SGC, go back to your roots. I think at this point you got to give up on the lower tier cards, modern cards. I think that revenue stream is dried up. Don't try to revive it. Save your money there, but just focus on making the vintage slab in some way look nice, more appealing and try to be that part of the market. So I think that's all I'm going to say for SGC. I'm going to skip the third point because Will, Roy and I, we discussed about the availability of wax or seal product at release prices. We know how hard that's been to do. There's EQL, but there's issues with EQL too. You got to be lucky in terms of being one of the buyers to be able to get product. We discussed a number of numerous ways, so if you missed that episode a couple weeks back when Will, Roy and I were discussing it, that's going to be an ongoing thing. We're trying to make the price of wax more affordable, not even more affordable. Topsys actually held their prices in line. That's kind of what the problem is. There's not enough supply to meet the demand at those release prices, right? So I think they got to be a little bit more creative. Some of the ideas we talked about on that episode was if you want to get hobby stores involved, instead of them breaking that product, allocate some of it to the customers and if they want it, they got to rip inside the store. Guess what? That's great content for the hobby store too. So it's kind of a win-win. If you rip inside a store, you get it at retail prices and you give it to a collector because obviously a flipper wouldn't want to do that in store, right? So anyway, that's one idea. But if you guys have any ideas who are listening to the pod, DM us. We'd love to hear your thoughts and then we could maybe air some of your ideas in the future. So let's skip to the last point and I'm going to read the last paragraph of the article and just want to get your final thoughts. You kind of alluded to it or hinted at it, John. More competition would always help. The author agrees on that point. But he says, but given the current landscape, quote, this is what we will all be operating in for the foreseeable future. It has been a fairly safe space to put your money for decades now and barring unforeseen circumstances in the global economy, it doesn't look like a steep drop is on the horizon, end quote. Agree or disagree with that last kind of general sentiment? I agree. I agree for the most part, but I also believe that we also are in a shift of just changing in general as society. Like I think even, you know, we're looking at the oil crisis, you know, it's like, is oil the sustainable energy going forward or in the near future? If not, if so, how is that going to affect the future of the hobby where they go? So it's like, I think we just don't know at this point in time because it's not just reliant on the growth of the hobby. Now if this kind of growth happened 10 years ago, then I would say, yeah, this is such a really bullish market and I love it. But we just don't know because of the landscape of, you know, how the stock market's going to be in the next two, three years, right? So it's like, there's a lot of variables and dependence that we're not necessarily aware of right now. So I don't necessarily agree with that fully in that context that, hey, it's cards to the moon like our podcast. But if all, you know, is good with kind of like the technology and surrounding infrastructures, I think it's a relatively safe community and, you know, it's proven that it's outperforming even, you know, obviously some stocks, but definitely the dollar, you know, it's outperforming the dollar. If you put $100K in sports cards versus $100K in a savings account, most likely if you put it in the right cards, you're definitely going to outperform the dollar. So I think that's what, and remember, that's what we're also doing is we're selling against the dollar. And it's a combination of, you know, it looks like it's all going up, but we could look at it as the dollar is going down big time and there's really no value in the dollar in the first place. So, yeah, that's a whole different story, but yeah, I think there's a lot at play. So that definitely can't be conclusive. Before I ask you, John, the author did say, and I quoted him, barring unforeseen circumstances in the global economy. So I guess that's what you're alluding to. We don't know what that is. Right. But I'm going to push back on that. But I want to hear from John first. What do you think of that last sentence? Yeah, I think, I mean, truthfully, any investment class or collectible Rolex, wine bottles, art, it'll all go to nothing if there's World War III, right? So, I mean, take that with a grain of salt. But on this pod, we joked, you know, like into the 20 COVID era, how this has now become a pretty, you know, like almost like an investment class. And I don't think it's quite, you know, we were all kind of talking out of our butts a bit, but I think it's close. Like, it's not quite there, but just looking at the money movement and some of the big players involved in the high-end space, and looking at Shohei prices, which is insane, and looking at Pokemon prices, and just in general, we're the hobbyists, it's kind of on a bullish run, but it does appear as though people are getting more and more confident putting their money into sports cards. And it's not like sports is going anywhere. Sports is always going to be popular. So it does feel like if you're going to invest. And the great thing about sports cards or Pokemon is for the most, for, I think, for most collectors, I think almost everyone now, in terms of the collecting space, is sort of like this hybrid collector. Like, why not, right? If you can invest in something and it turns money for you, then it's more money to invest in other things, slash some extra money to put into some PC cards that may not be worth much in the future, but that's the whole point of collecting. And I think because you're always going to have sports fans. If you're a Pokemon fan, you're probably always going to love Pokemon. And I think that aspect really bodes well for the hobby. And the more and more people get into it, there's more and more of a baseline. And I think maybe it will never be like a pure asset class, but I mean, it's as close as it's going to get. Yeah, I agree with that too. And you're saying if World War III happens, yeah, everything goes to zero. But hobby hot take, or hot take in general, I think the hobby will be fine during World War III. Someone's going to clip that. Someone's going to clip it and like, Clark, what are you talking about? I want to explain myself. I'm just saying, you know, I'm obviously hyperbolic in that statement, but when the world shut down due to a virus and the dollar just tanked, everything tanked, guess what was doing just fine? Guess actually what went the other way. People needed a break from the devastation that was happening in the world and they started collecting cards. So my point is, what else can happen? What else can happen that will like, you know, if the oil prices tank and we're like, oh, I just bought a gas car and now it's like $4 Canadian to a liter or something. I need to buy cards. I need to get my mind off of this thing that, you know. It's the name of the podcast. It's Cards to the Moon. Cards to the Moon. Listen, if the apocalypse was happening and your house is burning down, you're going to grab your wife, you're going to grab your kids and you're damn sure going to grab the Shoei Super Fractor and put it in your pocket as you run out of the house. For sure. 100%. Yeah, I'm telling you, like we've seen a lot of disasters and I'm not making light of the disasters, but it's almost therapeutic in a way. The cards can be therapeutic in a way. And I'm just making the point that I feel like cards are, yeah, it's just unbelievable what this market has been doing over the past several years, despite things going on in the world. But yeah, I'm pretty bullish. I'm obviously biased now that I do this full time, but I definitely feel that cards can definitely go to the moon still. All right. I'll say one more thing, Clark, with that. I think there's different ways to invest in the hobby other than just financially. And you take it, like even this podcast that we started, it's like the time that you're putting in, that's all little investments that you make and you create something that can be more sustainable in the future. So there's so many different avenues where you can invest, not only financially, because if it's a growing industry, and it's not necessarily all about money, but it's building something that is sustainable and long lasting, right? So for me, if you're a listener and it's like, man, I can't afford the hobby anymore, there's other ways to be relevant in the hobby where you could invest strategically and net out pretty positive results. Absolutely. Great way to end this segment, for sure. Okay, let's move on to Quiz Show. Actually, John had to hop off because he had a call, so that's okay. He gave us his pick one right before he left off. So I'm gonna play that clip of his pick one at the very end. And then you guys, the listeners, can decide which one you would pick. And then we'll choose right after as well. But before we do that, let's do Quiz Show. I just read another article on Yahoo Sports and it listed the top five rookie card classes in baseball card history. So these are baseball cards, and we could go through this relatively quickly. And it's good, I guess, better that you're on instead of John, because you're more knowledgeable about baseball cards than John is. But all right, let's start with 1989 and we're gonna go backwards. Because after 1989, it's all vintage, okay? So obviously the 1989 rookie card class, top rookie cards, they listed five. Griffey's number one, of course. Yeah. $5,000 for a PSA 10 now. Which is crazy. $5,000 for a PSA 10 now. Which is crazy, yeah. I remember we were buying it at 600. We were saying, these will go to the moon. And they did. We should have bought more, yeah. We should have bought more. You don't have to name the rest, but yeah, do you remember anyone else from that 1989? 89, who is 89? Was Tom Glavin? He might have been, but he's not on the list. Another braised pitcher, his fellow braised pitcher. John Smoltz. John Smoltz, 89th Fleer. 89 Fleer. Who else was 89? 89, 89. Another tall lefty pitcher. Oh, Randy Johnson Fleer. Yep, and upper deck as well. Upper deck. Randy Johnson. 89, that was second year Roberto Almar. I guess Almar was 88, right? I think so, yes. Okay. Yeah. And the last two, I'll give you clues, because his son played on the Blue Jays before. Cecil Fielder. No, his son played for the Jays. I don't think. His son played for the Jays. Houston Astros. Oh, Biggio. Craig Biggio. Oh, yeah. Yeah, yeah. 89 tops. That's right. And then the other one on this list was he had a very unique batting stance. Waved his bat a lot. Back and forth. Home run hitter. Waved his bat. Like waved his bat back and forth, you know? Very active with his like stance. Oh, oh, Gary Sheffield. Gary Sheffield. Yes, yes, yes. 89 tops. Oh, man. Yeah. What a class. What a class. Okay, now this gets interesting. 1955. Oh, boy. What are the rookie cards? Yeah. Sorry, I don't know. Horizontal, think horizontal. 55. Iconic horizontal cards, yeah. 55, 55. We'll start things off. Yep. Tragic accident. Like he died tragically on a plane. I believe on a plane. His PSA fives are going for 5,700. But his 1955 tops. This is a rookie card. I should know this. Pittsburgh Pirates. Oh, Roberto Clement. Clemente, yeah. That's one of them. Another classic horizontal card. What am I thinking of? LA Dodgers. Pitcher. Sandy Koufax. Sandy Koufax, yeah. Those are the 1955 tops cards. And then there's Harman Killebrew. Harman Killebrew. These are names I honestly haven't heard since the 80s. Seriously. Hardcore baseball card collectors. Okay, let's go to 54. That might be a little easier. Iconic 1954 rookie card of bright orange background. Sorry, I'm a vintage. The years just don't play. Yeah, it gets all mixed up. But you would know it if you saw it. Hank Aaron, 1954 tops. The 54 tops, Aaron. Makes sense. Yeah. Ernie Banks also makes that list. That's right. And you wouldn't guess this, but Tommy Lasorda, who we know better as a manager. How are his prices going? Like people are buying? PSA 5, I don't know why it gives the PSA 5 values, but I guess 280 for PSA 5. Probably the most common. I guess it's hard to define PSA. Yeah, yeah. Hard to define in high grades, right? Right. All right, 1951. So you got your Bowman Mantle, right? Yes, that's number one. You got- Who else do you have that's often neglected? Willie Mays. Because of Mickey Man. Willie Mays, 1951 Bowman. PSA 5 for Mantle. 1951 Bowman's going for 33,000 versus 20,000 for Willie Mays, PSA 5. Wow. I think both cards are kind of underrated. Those are the two best, for sure. And then you got to round off the top four in this category, Whitey Ford, 1951 Bowman. And then Monte Irvin. I don't know if I know him, but yeah. Okay, 1948. The rookie card class was finished number one on this top five list. 1948 Leaf, my grail that I will attain one day. Do you know what I'm talking about? 1948 Leaf, Jackie Robinson. Jackie Robinson. Yeah, the Jackie. That's like a Picasso, I would say. I want it so bad. I mean, you know, I was thinking, I talked to DC about this on a previous pod, but if I sell my Trout or my Luca, I'm going to reinvest it into it with trying to get that Jackie Robinson 48 Leaf. What grade can you get with that? PSA one, probably. PSA one. If I want to do straight card for card, but PSA two is going for about 15,000. Is the play to constantly try to upgrade that vintage, or do you do the upgrading with the modern cards to build more value, and then you just cash out in a higher grade? I think the latter is the play, yeah. Yes, I agree. But right now, PSA two would be my goal. Nice PSA two, good. Great, yes. Until a PSA three pops up. I got to draw the line somewhere, but yeah, anyway, I'll finish off the segment. Also, 1948 Leaf was Satchel Paige. Oh, yeah. Stan Musial. Musial, yeah. 1948 Bowman, you got Yogi Berra. Right. Again, 1948 Leaf, you got Bob Feller, Warren Spahn. Wow. Larry Doby. Big names. And yeah, big names. Yeah, I apologize. I haven't touched vintage in the longest time, but it was almost, if you played baseball, you have to know all these legends before, because we didn't grow up in the internet era. You had Beckett, you had stories, that's it. You had maybe newsprint, if that, right? So that's all you had. That's true, absolutely. But for our vintage collectors who listen to the pod, probably knew all of these right away. They're like screaming. They're like, how could you not know? Yeah, but that's for you guys. All right, let's finish this episode with our regular weekly segment we call Pick One. All right, like I said, I'm going to play John's clip right at the very end, but yeah, Hyung, do you want to start this for us today? Yeah, and we're going straight to the Shouhei market. Yes, sir. Reassess, because I've seen some pretty crazy sales over the last, I would say, month or so, and I've talked to you personally about it. I think just the Otani market is crazy. And those that think that ripping doesn't pay off, I remember I was ripping 2018, and the boxes, even they were expensive. We're talking $300 hobby boxes, which was absurd at the time. But the amount of cards I've gotten or created with Otani is crazy. Because if you see the market, even base cards are going for 100 plus in PSA 10. So it's like, if you were ripping between 2018 and 2022, I guarantee you, you could cash out on some Otani that you probably never thought you would have cashed out on. And they are gold right now. So there's that. The market is crazy with Otani. And it's bled through all his Otani cards, not just the high end, right? So, but I'm obviously gonna go with the staple Otanis because prices are getting absurd. The Topps Chrome X-Fractor, so the pitching, number 700, image, sorry, I think the Topps Chrome number is different, it's the white jersey X-Fractor, recently sold for $6,300, PSA 10. So there's a pop count of 530 bucks. And it's been sustaining this price for the past month and a bit. So X-Fractors, I told you off air too, I think it's one of the hottest cards just because of the liquidity plus the scarcity. There's a kind of balance of both. So the price is up to six and a half K. Would you rather get that card, pay 6,500 US for that card, or would you go into a 2019, so the year after, his second year, there was a Topps Chrome 1984 kind of design. It's kind of like an insert auto. It was numbered to 20. okay okay number 220 and I'll show I'll kind of pass the link that sold for 6,500 last month so within the last 30 days sold for 6,500 and that's a PSA 9 but that's an auto which one would you purchase because those are those are two similar cards that here I'll send it to the group chat right now just so that you have an image I personally love this card I think out of 20 is crazy but I think the just the 1984 design I think it's it's such an eye-appealing card to me that's nice but looks like it's all on card auto too right it's on card auto is old auto but here's the thing I find these are very tricky to comp because like I said the previous buyer or seller didn't have any comps to go off of and it's just what do you think it's worth so would you go into more liquid card where there's a sustainable marketplace where hey when I need to exit I know that there's gonna be a buyer whereas this auto you're gonna be like okay when I want to exit on this card we don't know what it's gonna get because the marketplace isn't as I guess liquid in in the auto market which one would you take this is a really tough one because I love autographed cards especially if they're on cards it's old auto so that's got it going for it and then you know off air we're also talking how insert cards are the play even on air we're saying that on a previous pod and so it checks all the boxes but to your point the liquidity of the 2018 the rookie card and x-factor and a relatively low pop count like I think I would naturally if I'm spending 6k plus I'm not you know that much of a risk taker or I am a little bit but at that amount I'm like I think I prefer the liquidity although it goes for my PC I go for the 2019 we're back on silver prisms but the way I mean the way the market is yeah I think if it comes down whatever it does if it does you would still be able to get rid of the the x-factor rookie right and and the other what you know for the other card you might be holding on for a bit for a lot longer actually so but if you're looking to do a quick flip I don't know maybe I might take the gamble with the the auto so I guess it's your timeline and what you want to do with the card so for me I don't know when I'll be able to flip or if you know I like to hold on to cars that I acquire for a little while just enjoy it for a bit until I have a definitive plan if I wanted to flip I usually like to reinvest into another card so I think the way the tiny markets going I think it's more likely that you'll see a steady increase in that rookie x-factor card whereas you got to be a little bit lucky with the 2019 to find that right buyer that's willing to pay a bit more than the last comp which might be difficult to do so I'm going with the x-factor interesting and it's funny because you know over the years the the answer changes and you know and that's that's important because I think people take it for granted of how important liquidity is they they don't take into consideration liquidity and our emotional collectors bias always likes the rarity and we always talk about this we're buying low-numbered autos a year ago we would have said we'd buy any otani auto right but then and that's the interesting part about this market places you know liquidity I think is very important and it there's no in no way that my logical mind would say I would buy the x-factor over an otani auto is especially over the last year and a half but I I agree with you in terms of that I'm I'm re-realizing how important liquidity is and if you want it the liquidity is just as important as as the purchase right because if it's not sellable or you can't cash out it becomes tough to see it as more of an investment piece right so but with that said I just want to throw that out there because it's obviously on people's minds still because they either accidentally don't know that they're buying a higher pop card for a same amount of price or they're very aware and they like the liquidity and the demand for that particular x-factor right so I see both sides but I think at this point I'm still bullish on otani autos and you know I would I thought that specific auto is a steal at 6,500 long-term I'm thinking based on where otani autos are are valued at and yeah I just think it's gonna be just very tough to buy otani autos in general and it already has and we're talking about 6,500 is a steal before it was like 6,500 I don't know man it's a lot for for a piece of cardboard but now it's like you know our mindsets a little different so I I'm still under that context that otani autos are still the play but there's no doubt in my mind that the liquidity is just as important and I get why someone would pay 6,500 because next week it could be 9,000 and cash out 9,000 no problem too right so I'm gonna go with the otani auto yeah no that's excellent points and maybe I think my bias a little bit is I was just at a booth like I just had a booth at the sport card Expo and I have big cards and those are not as easy to move obviously right so for me it's like all you need is one buyer but you have to also be patient so so you know when you're at a booth when you you almost want liquidity because you want to cash out on a lot of these right items so maybe that kind of if I didn't have the booth I might have just gone otani auto obviously but I think that's that played a factor in my decision just just I experienced having a booth and having to vend and and the whole idea of liquidity being that important so excellent point I agree with you all right my pick one very quickly again otani and we're talking kind of on the lines of how insert cards are kind of the play so I'm gonna give you a couple insert cards really or not regular cards so one of them is I didn't know about this card until recently tops chrome black in 2026 has the home-field subset and everyone knows on the pot I love home-field advantage I think they just calling it a home-field not home-field advantage but home-field but the same kind of look almost panini downtown ish right but in the tops chrome black set the home-field I guess it's not even based but the regular cards are numbered to 50 they're actually numbered to 50 okay and now Tony has one there's one on bids right now that is that 4100 last time I saw I think there's a couple days left but I'm gonna assume or guess that I might finish at 5,000 6,000 somewhere in there I could be totally wrong you could go even higher but let's take that 5,500 comp otani home-field insert card numbered to 50 okay raw because it just came out versus the otani tops 2025 tops now orange opal chrome and it's great a PSA authentic that's numbered to 25 so if you had to pick this one of these insert type cards which one would you choose can you can you send me I'll show you a picture yeah of each because it's gonna come down to kind of like okay which one do I think 2025 yeah I will do that the 2025 tops now is also the one of his I have the base version of this card which is the 10k 3 home run game remember that against right in the in the playoffs last year the NLCS right but yes I'll show you that right now I believe that sold for 5,500 recently here's that okay yeah there you go I I 50 I don't okay here's the thing I hate that logo that home-field logo I think it looks so cheap I don't like it either the font it's the font and I but I like the card itself mm-hmm if that makes sense but I don't love tops chrome black so I like the card better than the tops now I feel like tops now still it's not something about it the IAP I don't know I like the eye appeal of the home field better than the tops now card so I'm gonna go the tops chrome black but there are things that I don't love about it but it because it's out of 50 I really like it I like Oh Tony in a Dodgers uniform anything numbered inserts like I said I'm bullish on inserts I think long-term a numbered insert is is such a great play I think it's over time it's gonna age really well I think inserts have great eye appeal in terms of collectors desirability so I'm gonna go with the tops chrome black okay the tops now orange is numbered at 25 I believe I know it it's numbered 25 but it's not like it's little stuff like it it's a opal like whatever oh it's not like true orange or it's not chrome refractor where I'm just like oh like I'm excited it's just like another parallel right this is so funny you say that cuz like you're saying with the other cards you know we we tend to change our minds over time and then I remember in episodes in the past few years ago we're like orange true orange orange shimmer what's okay that's number 25 opal opal to 25 that doesn't look like an orange refractor is totally different shimmers okay sure shimmers and waves those are like wow those are like the station's but not like just pull that's how you draw the line opal shimmer gets a pass but opal doesn't shimmer does shimmer and waves get a pass see I mean as anyway our tastes change over the years they do it's very emotional it's what it's what you're feeling but I'm still going tops chrome black I I think I think there's just an easier sell a liquid like as we talked about it's new and hot as well so I think you could probably potentially make money obviously go both ways but yeah the only thing I don't like about the card is just the font which I don't think everybody shares the same sentiment so I don't think it's gonna be an issue so I'm gonna go with the the tops from black yeah I'm totally in agreement I don't like the font I like the old the better the font what it was before with a regular home field advantage in the previous years so I'm with you but and then before I tell you what I decide at the show we're talking I was talking with one of the someone that dropped by the booth and you know they listen to a pod and they're talking about how even tops now the brand kind of flipped you know when it first came out we're like oh this is awful who's gonna buy this and then they made it better they made it more exclusive for some of these chases they're coming out with more often so there's a lot of people bought the tops now card my glad he bought but bad flip yeah sold in the first couple days yeah you know like especially in the Toronto market which was easy that's George Springer Roy gave me a couple of his George Springer that home run that in the Seattle game right sold quickly I love the brand yeah no tops now brown we've we've always believed in it yeah don't you don't you think they should make the hits chrome refractors then yes 100% that'll be it was so much better right instead of foil yeah instead of foil like nobody wants foil nobody let's be real nobody wants oil no one wants platinum yeah yeah so that being said I like tops now better much better now but I'm with you I'm just a home field guy the design I think that's gonna be people love downtown's for a reason you know and and I think people are gonna love home field advantage home field whatever you want to call it now and I like the fact that it's numbered like the yeah that one thing I mentioned when I talked to a lot of people about my Bobby what super I think that was the only year that tops chrome issued a super fracture of the home field advantage I don't know why they didn't bring it back last year I don't know if they're gonna bring it back this year or not we don't know how they're gonna roll that out in 2026 set but for some reason 2024 was the first year they first went from issuing a chrome product of home field advantage and included one super fried and there's no other refractor like there's no red or orange or anything like that so but now they have tops chrome black this year I don't know why they put in tops chrome black they're probably trying to sell the tops chrome black set because you know it's the same plate with tops chrome update let's put MLB debut patches there so we can sell the product same play they're like okay now people are gonna buy tops chrome black I looked into it I'm gonna I'm not gonna lie I looked I'm like 300 bucks I might be expensive to chase I might just buy the card but smart move that's why yeah I mean it's working doing that yeah I mean panini's been doing that too with you know some of their you know downtown's and kabooms they where they insert in random sets where if there would be no value in that set had it had it not been like that type of chase so it makes sense you know they did it with tops chrome update with the debut patches but they don't necessarily need to load these demanded cards they could spread it over a whole years and then now they're more healthier in terms of distribution and people wanting to rip rip the product right so it makes total sense it's smart I mean I would do it if I was running the company look for the next big chase in tops fire next year okay that's that's where we got to drop the line but that's why it's like Oh Tony's breaking all the rules He's making every card cool again. Yeah, you can only get this Otani Super Super Fracture in Tops Fire and then everyone's gonna buy it. You know what I mean? Exactly. Everyone's gonna chase it. But I'm going with the Home Field as well. And just because we're running long on time, I'm gonna play the clip of John's pick one that he mentioned to us. It's Hockey. And I'm gonna put a poll up for him to see what other people say. And I'll vote on there. I already have my choice, but this is a special for you guys, for you listeners. Listen to his clip and then tell us what you would go for. Go to my at five card guys Instagram. I'll put a poll out there once this episode airs. All right. Thanks for listening. Appreciate you guys. And we'll have a brand new episode for you guys next week. Talk to you then. Bye. If you want my pick one, just in case, if you guys want to play around with it, I chose Austin Matthews, Young Guns. Obviously he's really taken a dip and he's two years removed from his 69 goals. I think this year he got, he didn't even get point per game pace this year. Like he was brutal. But his Young Guns is finally, I mean, what was once like a thousand fifteen hundred dollar USD card is now sub 600. So I think you can pick it up for around 550 PSA, 10 PSA, 10. And also Leaf fans are kind of turning on Austin Matthews. So I don't know if it's at a buy now or we're going to turn on, turn around now that we got the first overall. I don't know. And I'm going to put that up against your boy Kuchera. He's finally getting that respect. His PSA Young Guns, PSA Young Guns always floated around 400, maybe 500 on a playoff run. He had another big year and he, I mean, I think it's going to come down off of now that they got eliminated, but it's floating around a thousand dollars. So I would assume kind of post, you know, playoff knockout, he'll probably come back down to eight, seven, you know, something around there, but they should be kind of similar to each other. The Matthews is kind of on a buy low. The Kuchera is a bit of a buy high, but yeah, that's my, that's my one of you one. Quickly. What's your pick? Kuchera. Yeah. I think the, for me, I think Matthews is a buy low. I think he's going to have a chance. I think he can rebound and I think the Leafs are in a different place enough for him to kind of be energized, but I'm not. The big component of the Matthews pricing is just how many Leaf fans are behind that pricing. And if Leaf fans are not quite behind Matthews anymore, I know many Leaf fans, including myself, are okay with trading him to get a bunch of assets. You know, we're in that, we're in that place now. So I think, yeah, I think because the Leaf fans behind, it's kind of like the Yankees and the Dodgers, right? If the, if those big markets are not behind the player anymore, I don't know if the support for the pricing could be quite there. So yeah, Kuchera, he gets, he gets the love. I'm going to say Kuchera. I always put kind of Datsuk as my number one Russian all-time, but I think now he's, he's snuck up. I think Kuchera for me is the all-time greatest Russian born player and, and that might be a hot take against all these OB fans, but I think Kuchera is the best Russian of all time. Wow. Okay. He's, he's there for me. Yeah. Okay. Cool. Hey, thanks for listening to Cards to the Moon. We'd really appreciate you subscribing to our podcast, wherever you listen to your podcasts, and you can also connect with each of us on Instagram at 5cardguys, or you can follow Hyung at Integrity Sports Cards or John at TradeUatRecess. You can also check us out at 5cardguys.com. Thanks again and hope to connect soon. Bye.