Is Gary Vee Moving Markets or Finding Value? + Hobby Prices Keep Surging + What Happens Next?

Michael Jordan Sports cards is a lifestyle Sports cards and we live now Jeremy Lee in the building and every guest that you ever needed Sports cards after hours Keep the hobby heated Updates homie talk like you never seen it Sports cards live one-of-one none could ever beat it Sports cards is a lifestyle Sports cards and we live now. Welcome to another episode of Sports Cards Live with your host Jeremy Lee. Man, I feel like there's so much more we I got a lot of comments that I want to go to but does anyone on the panel have anything they want to talk about, anything we've talked about so far or if not I will run through some comments and some of them will spark some discussion amongst us. Is that, is that okay with you guys or does anyone want to mention anything else? Right now I'm seeing no hands go up so I'm gonna do going to run for through a few com first of all and I mean they're already all but like I want to say hi to Jay Costa Loa who runs the west coast card show jumping in the chat. What is up Jay? Always good to see you Jay. Michael Ham posed this question a while ago said what is your guys outlook on the evaluation of the hobby in the next six months? Are we due for a pullback or will it be when the, when baseball has their strike? So Michael Ham is basically you know opining or supposing that it will be if not sooner when baseball strikes that there will be a pullback in the hobby. What do, what do we think about that? I mean this has been talked about before but not with this mix of, of of people. We'll start with you this time Jeff, if that's okay and I'll just kind of we'll go around the horn that way starting with you thoughts on the ne the six month evaluation where the hobby's at? Yu-Gi-Oh I mean I think in j. I don't like foresee any necessarily like widespread just big dip in the market. But I do think things that have really been hot, you know I think can probably see you cooling off but when you made a good point about baseball it will be interesting to see if, if there is a strike and baseball cools down. We know what happened the last time that happened 30 years ago. 30 plus years ago. So could that have some sort of similar drag down in the market? I think it's definitely possible, you know so I, I, I think, I think it could happen but I don't see anything. I think things are just have too much headwinds and momentum in the hobby's favor to see anything drastic. Thanks for your comments. Chris Ho I think it's all about the capital ecosystem right now. I look around the hobby, I see to the extent that I can, who are the buyers who are claiming the big purchases in particular, I, I have an Yu-Gi-Oh more, more towards the high end and I'm not seeing a lot of new buyers necessarily. I'm seeing the same buyers buying stronger, paying stronger, paying more. But all budgets run out eventually. Nobody has the money tree in the backyard. Even if the budget is tens and tens of millions of dollars, eventually they run out. And when money runs out, then we go, we shift from being a, in a position where new money is constantly making the capital ecosystem larger, presupposing that the seller keeps the money in the ecosystem and doesn't just take it right out. Then we shift from being a growing pool of money to a pool of money that is static and then rotating. And then once people have as much money as they're able to put in or willing to put in in, then it becomes a question of do they just stick with what they have or do they say, you know what? I think some of the stuff I have is mature. I'm going to sell that, I'm going to rotate into these other things. And that's the moment that I'm waiting and watching for. Now some of the buyers at these high end positions are getting capital Illusions because they are benefiting from a genuine influx of new people who are coming into the entry level. So maybe they're people who are who participate at the repack level or they're somehow providing business services that have exploded over the last six months or so. And then they can funnel in, they can continuously sort of funnel in capital as long as new people are coming in and providing their coffers with more liquidity. But the tipping point or the inflection point that I'm looking for is either there will constantly need to be new buyers coming in in order to sustain the growth of prices, or there will be a moment where people run out of capital and they have to start rotating. And then what does that look like? Does that create fear and panic? When a card that like the 97 base metal Jordan PSA10 went up to 45,000 all of a sudden is back down to 15,000, does that make people start panicking and get fearful and start shuffling towards the exit? So this is some of the stuff that I'm looking for. Is, is the who is always the most important question, who are the buyers and what is the limit of their, of their budget and when that limit gets hit, what then? And I think especially the faster prices go up, the quicker the budget gets hit because the money doesn't go as far. And I think we're probably in for that moment sooner than later. But it could be offset, it could always be offset by continuously more people pouring in, which Fanatics is doing a pretty nice job of. You're on mute. It's this storm I got going on, guys. I apologize. Joshua Adams, please. As Yogi Berra said, it's tough to make predictions, especially about the future. So I have no idea what's going to happen. If I could predict the future, I, Yu-Gi-Oh have a better card collection. I don't know. Hopefully prices come down to earth. That'd be great because I want to buy more stuff but I think the baseball strike is going to have a, you know, pretty wide ranging effect on collecting. Hopefully we'll see. Joe Perot, I don't have a degree in economics. I appreciate everything my, my illustrious colleagues have said. I, I would sort of say that if the, you know, litmus test was the National, I'm feeling pretty good. I think there's a lot of momentum. I saw a lot of robust, organic, natural interest for me. Like the one thing I will offer that, you know, goes all the way back to House of Jordan, you know, the shout out, you know, the, the namesake of HOJ is the concept of people truly wanting to own a card and hold on to it for, for, you know, multiple years and, and in my peregrinations through the Rosemary. You're what? Paring Grenachians? Never heard of them. Movements and, or your, my journeying through the Rosemont Convention Center, I saw more star cards than I'd ever seen in my life. And I, I've been a star collector for two decades and what's interesting to me about the case of the star card, and particularly the Jordan Star card is I'm not sure ultimately how many people are going to want to own that card. Even though if you run the metrics, you look at the pops, you compare it to the Fleer all that rookie card. This. I think we're over that conversation. But it to me is illustrative of the notion of are people enchanted with the star card because of the value that they see that they might achieve from it or do they really want to own the card? And I, I think for me that's, that's the tipping point is, is if and when there are so many cards that people never really wanted to own in the first place. They just wanted to kind of make some money. They wanted to flip it. Then we could get into a little bit of a free fall and that could lead to a market correction. Yu-Gi-Oh I'm not on mute. Good. Great comments all around the horn here, guys. Seriously. I, I just want to quickly shout out, how about me? I don't get to make a comment. I'm Certified, I'm sorry. I forgot we started. We, I, I forgot we started with Jeff Hart. But. No, I'm kidding. David. Yu-Gi-Oh please. But I just. Because I just want to shout out and David, Upstate sports cards. Thank you for the nice comment, David. Always for your support. Yu-Gi-Oh David Chase, please. Sorry about that. Yu-Gi-Oh so like for me, you know, looking at it on the vintage side, I think it is going to take a pretty significant something for it to really derail what we have right now. I think one is a major recession, which is kind of like what Chris was talking about. Like, I mean a recession where people need to get funds and they're willing to sell cards even when they're dropping in value. And the people that probably will be able to hold out and not need the money I think will do very well if something like that were to happen. And who knows, that could take one year, that could take five years of a recession. But it is cyclical and that definitely you have to prepare yourself for that to possibly happen and hopefully you have other means of cash besides selling your entire collection if and when that does happen. Number two would be if there was a major scandal of like psa. I think that could also derail the hobby if. Let's hope that that doesn't happen. But like some kind of thing. Because I think so much of the hobby is based on PSA and it's kind of sad that that. But if there was like some kind of weird scenario that showed something wrong with the way that PSA is dealing with things, I think that that could also cause a major shift in the hobby too. Thank you for that comment, Greg. Midlife is pretending like he knows what that word means. Just kidding, Greg. Well, Yu-Gi-Oh sports in the house says 23,000 jobs lost last month. What happens when 200k jobs? That's interesting because I. Okay, I've got my notes now and I'll chime in. One of my comments ties into this one here from A. I.H. which is the macro economy. What happens when you look outside the hobby and how that impacts things. I think it's a very valid question to ask, but one that's just kind of beyond what I think we want to get into here because we know that that's going to happen eventually. Like the, the macro economy is going to cycle just like every other, you know, sub economy cycles as well. So that's something to be aware of. We talked about a few, we talked about that a few weeks ago actually on the show. But we, this whole question was, was brought to us by Michael Ham, who asked about, you know, he said, what's the next six months look like? And what happened? Will, will the hobby start to, you know, come down a little bit in the face of an MLB strike? And Chris, actually you mentioned, I think all of you guys touch on this, but there's so much uncertainty with what's going to happen in the future of the hobby. What's going to happen with the strike. But if you think about a strike, I think to myself, you know, and some of, some of the uncertainty is, okay, so you're going to, what are you going to stop collecting? What are you going to stop buying? Only ultra modern baseball cards? That's the only genre market that, that really impacts in the immediate term. And then what happens? Those people are not going to be opening up. They're not going to be doing group breaks on Whatnot. They're not going to be opening boxes of cards at Burbank or Mint Inc. Or wherever. They're not going to be doing all these things anymore. They're not going to be buying those products. But these people might still have the urge to spend their money in the hobby. So are they going to divert those monies to other things? Are they going to start looking backwards into vintage? This is uncertain because everybody's going to do something differently. Well, some people just wait because all they collect is ultra modern baseball. Absolutely. But what segment, what parts of the overall ecosystem are truly going to be impacted by a baseball strike? I don't know. I don't think, I don't think it's going to be as like, Joshua, you said it's going to be very widespread. It might be, but I don't, I don't know. Is it going, is the, is a baseball strike going to have a widespread impact on the whole hobby or just. And, and to Chris's capital allocation discussion from earlier, people are still going to have that capital to spend, whether it's more or less based on the macro economy or just based on this. They're going to have more or less to spend. Are they not going to spend on something? Maybe they'll, they'll discover other things. Maybe they'll go back in time like I said. So there's so much uncertainty there that I don't know if it's. It might just be a blip, it might just be a nothing. I don't think that's the case. I think it will have an impact, but it might not. Josh, please. A baseball strike doesn't just affect the players and the owners. It affects everyone that works at the stadium. It affects everyone that makes money off of each team. That's 30 teams. Does the thousands of people that aren't going to be have money to buy, let alone groceries, make, let alone baseball card. So I think it's going to have a ripple effect and who knows what's going to happen. Strike doesn't. You're getting, you're getting macro in that, which I think is an astute approach because yes, it's going to hurt a lot of people, but all the people like I think you think about the strike, you think about all the, all these, all the hospitality staff in all those major league cities, the hotels, the restaurants, the bars, the pubs, the parking lot attendants, the parking lot owners. What percentage of those people are hobbyists? We uncertain. We don't know. It's impossible to, to assess that. I'm sure someone could figure it out somehow. Maybe Pancake analytics can do that for one of his next really deep analyses that he does. But is it really going to have a huge impact on the hobby, Josh? Like, do you see that? Like, no, because you said it with, you said like, you know, you had. Yu-Gi-Oh like I think it will have some, but I don't, I'm not as convinced as you are that we'll be, that'll be widespread in the hobby. And the other thing is that for people like you, Josh, and other people, the prices may come down which is going to be. Provide more buying opportunities. So who really gets hurt in that case? The flippers, maybe the, the LCS's, the flippers, the card show vendors because their inventory is no longer worth as much now they got to maybe take it off the shelf and, and bring it back later when the, when the values go back up. So there will be an impact. I think, I think there will certainly be an impact. I don't, I think that's kind of the, the common thought on it. But is it really going to have an impact like it did the last time MLB struck when they're, when the hobby was in a much different place and values weren't nearly where they were. So one-of-one that was great. Does anyone want to add anything to all this? Jeff, please. I was just gonna just throw in, I think on topic, we really hadn't talked about much when Chris said, you know, keeping things in the ecosystem, that immediately made me think about Fanatics in their approach to like the no fees and keeping things, you know, in the ecosystem with like the fan cash and like, you know, you could probably go some different directions with that. But I, I think that, you know, it's interesting to see how that unfolds and, and what that does to people's spending habits when they know that they don't have to give up 10% or whatever it is, you know, back to an auction house and then they could re roll that right back into something new. And how will that affect prices overall just because of that ecosystem change? And then also what will maybe if that does have a driving effect on, on some things, what does that do for other auction houses and other different platforms and do they have to change the way that they have operated in the past to maybe adapt if, if something, you know, behavior changes? Well said. Well said. Anybody else? Oh, David. Yes, I have something to say that's not on this topic. Let's go ahead. Is it a whole, is it a whole new topic? Because that's fine too. It is, but we just had a very breaking news right now. Oh, love of the game. Franken Wagner literally just closed this second. Before you look. Are you looking already? I've had it open the whole time, so. Yu-Gi-Oh me too. Okay, so it ended up closing at 1.1141 million114,000 with buyer's premium. That's about 1,336,000. What's your thought on that? It's a lot lower than I thought it could have gone for. I thought that I wouldn't. Like I said, I thought that if you get the right people out there, I thought there was a potential that this could be a statement piece for the art card market, for the restored card market, for that community to say, hey, we're not going away, you know, but they didn't do that. Well, still, 1.3 million is still a ton of money for a restored copy. So, you know. Yu-Gi-Oh I mean it's. I, I'm simply, I, I'm not wowed by it. So here's my question though about it. Do you think that if it sold as the die cut version would, do you think that it would have gone for more or less, which I know is you're Just speculating, but what's your thought on that? I mean, less. I. I think less. I think the silhouetted die cut piece. Yu-Gi-Oh just. Just my thought. I think so too. Which I think brings up a very interesting point where I don't know of another card that has been altered that is going for more than a pre. Altered state card. Right. This could be one of the first that's like that. Right. If you ever had a 52 mantle and. And you had the card pre altered and then you altered it and it got slabbed as altered, wouldn't it always go for a cheaper price? Well, I don't know, man. That was a. That was half a card, you know, like. Yu-Gi-Oh Yu-Gi-Oh it's tough to say. We. We haven't seen many other cases of that except for the half a Wagner, which is more like 70% of a Wagner. So not too sure. But. But Yu-Gi-Oh I mean, a little bit of an underwhelming final result there on that card for my. There were no bids, really. If you actually. Just to take a look at the bid history, there has been no bids since August 1st. So there were no bids on. In the last week on that. On that item, which I think. I think that's. I think that's interesting in itself. Yu-Gi-Oh Okay, I'm gonna go through, guys. We're. We're in overtime and I'm good to go for at least another hour myself because There's. I've got 45 comments that I want to run through here. And so if any of you guys want to take off, just. Just let me know. Just say I'm gonna go, but you're welcome. Everyone's welcome to stay. And I'm gonna read to go through a couple comments here. We'll see which one sparks some discussion. And some of them go back in time in this episode, so that's okay. We're gonna backtrack a little bit. David G. Said, this is silly. If you have issues with the pricing that a dealer has on their cards, just keep walking to the next table. The national has thousands of tables. Hard to disagree with that comment. Brad's vintage said for every Griffey PSA 10 that should be lower, there are a hundred, 109s that should be tens, which on a car. Jeff, you found that. Jeff, you're laughing. What's your. Please, please. It's true. There's. You know, based on how PSA is grading right now, I think that's like. Probably Goldin be more true. You know, I think, you know, What I, I think that, like, I look at a comment like this and I agree with it, but I don't, I don't fault PSA for this. I think this is, this is a game of edge cases. Literally the difference between a 9 and a 10 is very, very narrow. And you're on the edge. Is it, Is it a 10 or should it be a 9? Is it a 9 or should it be a 10? And I think it's a game of these edge cases where they have to just make a decision. Maybe sometimes make it a 10, sometimes. Nope, that's a 9. Maybe it's like it's a, is it really a 10? Yu-Gi-Oh let's let it stay a 10. Even though this might be a 9 on some, in some cases, I think, I think, I don't envy PSA graders when it comes to deciding on a modern card that is mint condition, minter, better. Is this a 9 or a 10? I don't know how they can tell the difference half the time. So it's, it's tough. And guys jump, just put up a finger. If anyone wants to jump in on any of these comments, I want to say hello, you know, almost an hour and a half later to Mike Double V here. Welcome to the show. Mid Atlantic said in my WorldView, there are two Topps of cards, commodity cards and oddball cards. If it's a card I see regularly, it's a commodity card. That's a really interesting way of looking at it because that's not how, because he's basically calling any serially numbered card an oddball. And maybe that's a fair, you know, definition for, for his, through his lens and experience. I, I think oddball has a different definition, so I don't see it that way. But I appreciate the comment. Again, Josh, if you want to jump in, just put up your hand. You know, you're welcome to jump in anytime. And that goes for everybody. But when, if I see a reaction out of one of you, I might, I might call you out. Please, Josh. Oddball refers to like, you know, regional or, or unique sets that were not made in national produced products. So oddball's got a specific definition in the hobby. So number card wouldn't be an oddball card. Same page, Same page. Vintage card collector said we need the J. Lee assessment of the Griffey Upper Deck hologram like the Gretzky oil drop. You know, it's funny because I appreciate that, that, that, you know, sign of support there and encouragement. Vintage card collector who got to, got to see again at the National. But the problem there, I'm just not nearly as interested in that, that little to me it's like similar to error cards. I have no interest in error cards. Just me. Just me. They don't interest me. I don't find them enticing whatsoever. So a different. The way the hologram was printed, if it was a little bit off that day, the hologram stamping machine was just maybe, you know, had a few bubblies earlier in the day. The machine or the machine operator, I find that to be of zero interest. So, so I, I appreciate it, but you're not going to get that out of me because I don't care about it. The copy with Cage says, did you guys hear that Mike Baker refuses to give any hockey cards a sticker because hockey has no Yu-Gi-Oh appeal and actually no appeal at all. That's Cage's stick. Cage's. Cage told me this is my stick. It's my stick. It's okay, Cage. We, we, we still appreciate it. Colin Murray. What's up buddy? Dave Marone, who is the, who's the man behind the sports cards, live shirts and hats? Thank you. David Marone. He was, he's a football vendor at the national and the Expo. He did a great job on the hats and the shirts. Brad's vintage said Leighton was very generous to have his 100 an hour giveaway. So every hour at the Just Collect booth, Layton by random draw gave away a hundred dollars to an Whatnot Brad one-of-one one of them, was very thankful for the opportunity to put it towards a nice card. Isn't that wonderful? When we were talking about the Mickey Mouse and Superman cards earlier, Brian goes non sports cards are a lifestyle which is a. An astute comment. Foul ball had a nice comment about Leighton said a good dealer like Leighton buys collections, maintains inventory, knows the hobby, takes the risk of holding cards and gives collectors a place to find what they're looking for. His follow up comment, which I didn't star I should have was the opposite sort of sentiment towards flippers. Brad said, congrats, Jeremy. Love seeing your excitement for these cards on the the Mickey Mouse finding that, that grail. I it's so much fun to identify with a grail for yourself and then the hunt for it, the search for it and then the acquisition. So much fun. Mookie here said Mickey Mouse is the Babe Ruth of non sport and neither of them really existed if you ask pca. What's pca, Josh? All right. That's the Cubs outfielder Pete Crow Armstrong. Oh, I heard that I heard Yu-Gi-Oh he's messing about Babe Ruth but you know Pico Armstrong's not going to one-of-one MVP this year so that's okay. Yu-Gi-Oh Yu-Gi-Oh I heard him say he is that his legit take that the, the Babe Ruth never existed? No, I don't know what I didn't listen to the whole thing. I just. It was. I saw a clip of it somewhere and I, I kept scrolling but that's what he's referring to. Michael Raider said many non sport sets are catching on. They are rapidly increasing in value. You know this is a similar like when I read this comment I think to myself like Yu-Gi-Oh people are looking for other things to collect. We collect cardboard. Like I people always say to me what, what did you find at the National? Any. Any. Did you buy any hockey cards? Can you find any hockey. I wasn't looking for really for hockey cards. I was looking for like I was. That's not my main, my main pursuit. I think that you know once because I haven't bought a vintage hockey card about 1 a 53 Maurice Richard at an at the Expo a couple years ago but I'm not, I'm. I'm looking for other things to collect and I think a lot of people are looking for other things to collect and I think that's maybe why non sports sets are catching on partially one-of-one Arthur said the number 92 Walt and Mickey in a PSA 6 from REA sold the other day as well. That's the other card that David bought the the second appearance of Walt in the 35 set. Thank you Arthur. Hello to There's Becca again saying hello. Earlier we had Eric from those back pages joining us. Mid Atlantic said Mickey Mouse is just the tip of the iceberg. Many sleeping giants in in non sports. Yu-Gi-Oh I think that's possibly. Terp says I don't care what people say about the National. I've been six years in a row now and I wouldn't miss it for the world seeing old friends every year. I one-of-one miss it either if I can help it. Mon said this is about Gary Vee says he's pumping fiction because that's what V Friends is. I just wonder does Gary Vee truly love fiction and is he. Did he create a Josh says no Gary Vee doesn't truly love vintage or did he create a V friend set because he actually likes fictional characters Want to create his own because he's in a position to do it? I don't know. He seems to be pretty passionate about it. I do I. I Love it. Why Goldin he? Maybe he truly does. But anytime you have influence and a big followership and you express your love for anything, you're automatically a pumper. That's just the way the Internet works. Arthur said, go ahead. Yu-Gi-Oh I just have a question for you. He also mentioned that he, he has recently purchased 5048 Leaf Jackie Robinson cards. Didn't say recently. I think he said over the past 10 years or something like that. Oh, has it been over the last 10 years? Yu-Gi-Oh Do you have any kind of thought on that? On. Is that, is that negative? Is that positive? Do you care? Do you not care? What, what's your thought ON Somebody owning 50 Leaf 48 Leaf Jackies? Obviously it's an investment. That. That is. It's like I said to David in private the other day, you know, I'm not out there buying multiple copies of my Mickey Mouse cards because I, I only need one as a collector if. And then I realized I said this out loud to David. I think we're on the phone and it made a lot of sense to me. Interested? What? You guys, you can just nod if this makes sense to you or shake your head if it doesn't. But to me, and, and there is an exception, and Josh Adams is the exception to this with your 90 leaf Frank Thomases, and there's other exceptions like that. But to me, I only need one copy of a card as a collector if it's. They're all identical patch cards. You know, variations can be a little bit different. But the moment that I buy this, a second copy of a card, to me now I'm moving from collecting that. That second copy is no longer for me as much of a collectible. It becomes an investment. And I don't. I would rather continue to collect cards before I invest in them because there's other cards I want to own before I want multiples. So that's where. That's where I'm at. Why are you shaking your head, David? I just, I, I agree that's right for you, but I actually don't do that. Right. I was just shaking my head because there are certain cards and I know that there's at least one other person on the panel that, like, for me, I believe in Jackie Robinson card so much that there are. If I can find a perfectly centered low grade Topps. Jackie can't. I can't do this with leaf cards. But you know, I'll buy a second copy. Right. Because I just feel like I'm tucking it away and I am Keeping it as an investment. Now, that kind of makes me the devil with a lot of people, but I do. I do invest in very specific kind of cards. Now, I don't have the cash to buy 50 Leaf cards, but if I did, I understand it because I love the hobby so much, and I believe in the hobby so much that I understand investing in that way, even though I think it turns a lot of people off to hear things like that. I agree with. Go ahead, Joe. I mean, I have two Duke Kahanamakus. I have two Sport Kings, Jim Thorpes. They're cards that I just. I love so much. And each of the copies are. Are unique, right? Like, they're not. They're not spectacular copies. They're. They're. They're. They have character, so to speak. And I appreciate them each. And I love the issue so much that owning two, it doesn't feel like investment. I mean, unless you say everything's an investment. I mean, that's. That's equally true, but I. I prefer owning another issue of those two cards. I got a second T206 green cob. I don't know if I'll keep it, but it's a card that I appreciate enough to have two in my collection. You know what, Joe? When. When Dave and I were talking about this the other night, we brought up your. Your new Cobb. I think David made the mention, and I was able to find an exception as well there, because I know you. You know, I. So I was talking about more for me, like, if I'm buying that second card, and I think maybe I didn't word it that way, so I apologize, because I think I did say there's an exception, like what Josh does with the night with the Leaf, where it's more of, like, a gimmicky thing for him, but I certainly think there's an exception for what you're doing as well. And they're 90 leaf cards. He buys them for 10, 20 bucks. Right. So it's a fun thing, but for yu-gi-oh, and I think others, too. Yu-Gi-Oh Like, there's people who want the, you know, a copy of the card and all the different conditions. I don't know that that's investing as much as it's collecting cards in different conditions. You are a very discerning collector, though, Joe, when it comes to, like. Like, important vintage. And so I. And because I know you, it's. I don't think that you're doing that. You're buying it. I think you understand that you are deploying your capital and you do care about the value of your cards, I think. But Yu-Gi-Oh I can, I can carve out an exception for you there as well and I'm sure many other people so you can see how. Yu-Gi-Oh there's lot, lots of nuance potential nuance there for sure. Yu-Gi-Oh Okay. I'll go to another comment here. A man. Sorry Becca was saying hi to you Jeff. Very nice Becca. Always good to see Becca. Arthur Beckett up the Superman Lex Luthor at the national in a PSA8. That's a Zebra high grade pop seven one higher. The Superman Lex Luthor is, you know, Lex Luthor is a little guy in the card but it is the first appearance of Lex. I tried to find a copy at the National. I Goldin find one for myself. It's still on my want list. Bob Boozle says will Hart choose what's behind the door on the left or the door on the right. That's you, Jeff Hart. This copy. When you first joined the show, Bob Boozle wondered because if you just look at your screen it's kind of you got two doors behind you. It's just, just a funny comment. Becca said, so much psychology and influence these days. I love talking about the psychology. Influence is a part of a part of society now. But I love the psychology discussion. I know it's one of the things that Hoag and and and and Joe bring immense amounts to this panel which is why we love having them here. Bob Boozle says Jeremy's now the president of the Mickey Mouse Club. Sandine said, jeremy, I'm shooting off Roman candles in My House to celebrate your recent purchase. Very happy that I've identified the Mickey's as as grails for myself. Ace of Grade said I'm priced out of many 90s and early 2000 grails. NBA grails. Grabbing a baseball or football player of those same grail sets gives you the chance to enjoy something that's otherwise out of reach. Comes back to substitutes. I'm. I don't know about you guys but I'm priced out of MJ credentials and rubies and pmg. So you look at maybe other players in those sets to still own a piece of what is what are again iconic sets like that. Eric says, yes, Christina was the real mvp. Molo got to meet Moloko at the show. Good evening to you. Orlando says cards more than money. Some rare cars are only available once. Buy it when you see it. I love the buy it when you see it mantra. E105 to my wife's chagrin. I also love cards more than money. Steve Lane said a 20. This, this was a really interesting comment from Steve Lane earlier. A twenty thousand dollar Mantle card will increase in value whereas twenty thousand in cash will decrease in value over time due to inflation. It's an interesting thing, right? If you've got a savings account in the bank and it's not earning like it's not like in a money market or something like that, you might be earning, you know, 0.2% interest type of thing and over time that money is getting weaker and weaker. But certain cards over time have done better. Now this, this comment does assume that this will always be the case. I think he's. Well, it seems like he means even moving forward. But I, I shouldn't put that, that intention in his mouth. He may just be looking backwards, but we still don't know. Say history is an indication of the future and history will repeat itself. I think a lot of us believe that. But is that always going to be the case? I just don't know. I just don't know. Flint hall agreed with you. Josh. He said. I agree with Josh. None of this is healthy. The state of the hobby. But and I took a note when I saw that like healthy of what? Health? Healthy in what way? Why isn't. This is not me arguing. This is me devil's advocate. Why isn't this healthy? Because when a card, I'll give an example like that, like that Jordan in a base 10 is, goes up such an exponentially exponential amount in a very short period of time, it's going to come back down. But no one seems to believe in gravity here, which is like wild to me. Like the hobby's been around for a very long time. Stuff's going to come down. Like I'll give you an example. This, your Mickey Mouse card is a hundred years old, been around for 100 years. All of a sudden, all of a sudden it's shooting up. The only reason it's shooting up is because Gary Vee talked about it. Right? Gary Vee doesn't mention a thing. You can find more of them. It's not healthy. That's pumping but why isn't it healthy? Because it's not a natural progression. It's someone else in making an influence and putting their finger on the scale, it's going to come back down. That's not, that's, that is just the same as not insider trading but market, it's market manipulation is what it is. So that's not a natural market. So it's Unhealthy for whom? The guy spending $48,000 on a PSA 10 Jordan base card. Right. But is it, is that if that's unhealthy for that person, isn't it very healthy for the person who sold it and therefore you have a zero sum game? Well, it's predatory. So it's. I don't know if it's. I don't know if it's healthy. Neither of this healthy. I mean, you can make excuse for either side, but it's, it's bad for both sides. So is it predatory if I bought my Mickey mouse card for $1,000 but now after Gary Vee talked about it, more people want it, so now it's worth $5,000 and I go sell that for $5,000? No. Because is that predatory of me to go sell it now that it's gone up in value? No, but you're ignoring one half of the situ. One half of the equation. Which is. Which is that another. A third party. It's only up 5,000. Because a third party who has been known. Right. In the past to pump cars up that he has significant positions in to mention, oh, there's a great buy. So everyone goes running to it. He did this before in 2021, 2022. People have a short memory. So it's on. So what. So what you're saying is, is it is unhealthy financially for the people who are paying these amounts because they're going to eventually sell them at a loss and that's unhealthy. Yes, absolutely. And then they're going to be out of the mar. Out of the hobby because they're going to get killed on this. And they're not going to, like we just talked about putting money back in the hobby. They'll be like, this is dumb. I'm getting murdered. I'm going to do something else. I'll go back to stocks. So it's. If you want to keep someone in the hobby and as a collector, this is not the way to do it. Go ahead, David. I just, I want to ask Josh, like. But can't sometimes something go on the radar maybe over a pumping scenario and it's still not to go down after that happens. For an example, how about like The Gretzky, Gretzky McNall Wagner that I think went on a lot of people's radar at that time? I don't think it's gone down since. Right. Like as that card ended up getting some artificial information. Right. That came out of nowhere to be able To. So, like, does it have to come down? I'm not laughing at you. No, it doesn't. But then also, that Gretzky, that car is a very unique. Right. One of a kind in its own realm. But I understand what you're saying, and you're 100% right. Yes, absolutely. Could see. I. I just think, like, the Mickey Mouse case is interesting because I. I can't believe that they were as cheap as they've been for so long. So to me, it's like this card is. Is due for some appreciation. Same with the Superman. The Superman cards. I don't know anybody who is pumping Superman, but I hear people telling me that you could have bought these cards for 500 bucks or 60 bucks even for years and years. All of a sudden, people realized, and including myself, I was like, wait a second. This doesn't make sense, how cheap these things are. This card is way under. It's. It. It's potential has not yet been realized, was my thought. And I felt the same way about Mickey Mouse three months before I ever heard Gary Vee say anything about it, even one time. I clued into it before Gary clued into it, or. No, no, no. I clued into it before I knew Barry even. Gary Barry. I clued into it before I knew Gary even knew about it. So, you know, I think that, yes, it's been around for 100 years, but the hobby's growing. People are. I'm. I'm done collecting vintage hockey. I want to find something new. I found that, like, I. I only discovered the existence of that card. Josh? Yu-Gi-Oh This year. And I've been in the hobby 46 years, and I only discovered it now. So it could have been around for 500 years, and I wouldn't have known about it. Jeff, what do you want to jump in with? Yu-Gi-Oh so I. I completely agree with that. I think. I think, you know, just people have been in the hobby for 30, 40 years, and, you know, the reason why I think the market is in where it's now is because there's a lot of new people that are in the hobby, and they're just, you know, getting their feet wet. And so if there are people that have a microphone and. And they, you know, make people aware of something they just didn't know is there. That is. Is maybe, you know, uncovering rocks, basically gaming more demand to a market. Right. And if that demand ends up sticking because someone actually falls in love with something or they like it, I think that could be a turning point for whatever Carter item that is, you know, once more people discover it or aware of its importance. Thank you, Jeff. Joe. One thing that stood out to me, and I'm not raising this question because I even think I know the answer, but Josh, when you use the word like, natural, like, that's not a natural progression of the market, or maybe some people would use the word organic, right? I think that's an interesting question. Like, what is, what is a natural movement of the market or fluctuation of the market? What, what would we, you know, how would we characterize that versus something unnatural? Look at 33 Gaudy Ruths. They were like a thousand dollars for 25 years. And honestly, the past, what, eight, nine years, they kind of slowly crept up. No one's like, no one's getting on, on a YouTube channel and telling, hey, man, buy as many 33 go as you can. But those, you know, I mean, they're abundant, right? There's a lot of them, but it's Babe Ruth and it's, you know, it's a accessible card and people are going towards it. And I think that's a, that'd be an example of like a natural progression. 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