JT From Triple Crown 24 Joins The Ballcard Show Season 5 Ep 44

Hello and welcome to the ballcard show, the sports podcast for the sports collector. My name is Gary Wilmaster and if you are a long time watcher or listener to the pod, you will notice that my partner in crime is not with me today. Uh, Jason Otero is the other half of the ballcard show and he had some things pop up this week that made him unavailable. So hey, you just get me at least for a few moments. We're going to be joined here in just a little while by JT from triple crown 24, uh, OG content creator in the space has been creating sports card related content for seven or eight years now and uh, it's going to be a really great conversation, uh, and a little bit of a different perspective on the market. Uh, JT is also in this full time between content creation and shows and a few other ways that he, uh, generates revenue within the card space. Uh, so we will get to that in just a little bit, but before we get into that, uh, if you live under a rock, you will not know what I'm about to say, but the rest of you have been buzzing about this for about a week now. By the time this episode drops, collectors who owns PSA, uh, announced earlier this week that they have acquired Beckett grading services, uh, that includes all of the grading, uh, the price guides, uh, the website, all that stuff. And it's definitely generated a lot of conversation within the hobby. Uh, we posted a quick video earlier this week about it, uh, got a lot of reaction, a lot of engagement. I think people feel very strongly for the most part across the board that this is not a good thing for the hobby. Now have there been a few of the, uh, glazers out there, Jeff Wilson, um, who have, you know, tried to, uh, appease the beast that is one of their big sponsors. Of course there have, but at the end of the day, we are seeing the exact same thing that we saw when PSA bought SGC 18 months ago, the exact same verbiage, Hey, we're gonna, we're buying SGC, but there will be no change in their day to day operations. They're going to operate as an independent company. They're going to keep doing their thing. PSA is going to keep doing their thing. It's all going to be hunky dory. Well 18 months later and SGC is a distant fifth in grading. They're a shell of what they once were. PSA has used them as a parts car to help alleviate their own backlog issues or seeing the same thing with Beckett. And what's really, really sad about this, at least to me, is that what was once the flagship name in the hobby, uh, was synonymous with baseball cards, was synonymous with the buying and selling of baseball cards, a brand that many of us grew up loving is unfortunately in all likelihood going to be stripped down for parts and turned into a shell of what it once was so that the behemoth that is PSA can continue to grow at everyone else's expense. And that is not good for any of us. Um, again, people say that we're just conspiracy theorists. We throw these things out there and then lo and behold, within a few weeks, a few months, they start to happen. Um, it happened with buyback offers and all PSA is not going to do a repack. And then it's, well, now they're doing buyback offers, but Hey, it's just for third parties. Well, another very interesting thing happened this week and if you don't pay deep attention, you might have missed this one. One of the third party partners that, uh, is buying cards through PSA's buyback offers is the power packs from GameStop in an interesting turn of events. Power packs is owned and shares a corporate address with collector's universe. Collector's universe is listed in their public filings as the principal. So no, it's not just third parties buying your stuff. Collector's universe who owns PSA is buying your stuff. Now, you can get into all the semantics that you want to about it. Well, it's a separate company, shut up, shut up. I don't want to hear your mental gymnastics while you do backflips through hoops that are on fire to make it seem like PSA is the good guy. PSA is concerned about one thing and one thing only. Collector's universe is concerned about one thing and one thing only. How do we generate as much revenue as humanly possible and how much profit can we squeeze out of that revenue? Notice that nowhere in that conversation, nowhere in that statement that I just made is health of the hobby. Nowhere in that statement is robustness of competition within the hobby. PSA, their parent company, whatever, collectors wouldn't exist if PSA didn't exist, has now purchased over an 18-month period its two main competitors. SGC was starting to be a real thorn in their side so they bought them. Beckett has done nothing but shoot themselves in the foot for the last five years. That's admitted. But there was a world where that might have turned around because PSA has done the same thing recently and Beckett's submissions were starting to move up pretty substantially. Pretty substantially, like 40, 50, 60% numbers month over month. And so what did PSA do? They stepped in and said, no, we can't have that. We've got some bottlenecks still. What's the easiest way to fix that problem? Well, let's just buy another grading company that already has well-trained staff and all the equipment that we need and all the buildings that we need and let's strip it down like a parts car. It's not good for the hobby, folks. All of you PSA guys, listen, I get it. I get that they provide the most liquidity. I get that they have the highest resale value on their slabs. Nobody's arguing any of that. But never in the history of a capitalist society has monopolization been good for the consumer. Ever. Not one single time. And this is not going to be any different. I know that we still have CGC. I know that TAG exists. I know there are a few random companies out there off the top of my head that I know people like. I know people talk about FCG a lot. I've actually graded a few things with them. They do a good job of grading. But guess what? Nobody buys their slabs. Nobody buys them. Those of you who are out there banging that drum, I've said it before. I will absolutely do nothing but stock CGC slabs in my showcase if y'all that come to shows are willing to pay close to PSA prices for them. And if you're not, I can't. It's just that simple. So we've got a situation on our hands in the hobby. I don't know what it's going to look like. I don't know what the answer is. But at some point as consumers, at some point as people who are part of this hobby, we're the ones holding all of this up. As consumers, we kind of have to stand up and go, enough is enough. And I don't know what that looks like. I'm caught in the web of it too. This is how I pay my bills. This is what I do for a living. So I'm stuck in this treadmill that PSA has put us on. I hope that at some point we get an exit ramp from it because it does get exhausting. That's all I'm going to say about that situation. Like I said earlier, JT from Triple Crown is going to join us here in just a couple of minutes. Really good conversation I hope is coming down the pike. I've known JT for a while. He makes really great content. But before that, Uncle Terry has had himself some frustration this week. And I don't blame him one bit. He's going to tell you all about it right now. Thank you to my nephews, Gary and Jason. This is Uncle Terry's Vault. And today I call out every single GameStop employee in America to tell each and every one of you, stop putting us damn sports card people to the back burner with our PSA submissions. I'm waiting damn two, three weeks, maybe a whole month to get my cards processed. And I know why it's happening because those damn video game kids eat the damn sports card trading kids. That's how it goes, but I had damn nephews and damn nieces in the damn 80s and 90s. And that's when the great divide happened. You either chose video games or sports card and never shall the two meet again. Ask a video game kid, he's scared of the cards. Ask the sports card kids, they're scared of the video games. So now we're at the mercy of every single video game kid inside those damn stores. I've offered them money, damn girlfriends, but these video game kids want no part of that. They want power, bud. The power to tell all of us getting our PSA submissions, get to the back of the line. No respect for you. Sounds like uncle Terry has some beef with same people that we do, hopefully, and I can't promise, but hopefully sometime in the next week or two, uncle Terry's going to be with us live and yeah, you can imagine what that might be like. But now it is time for the man of the hour. Let's bring JT from triple crown 24 on to the ball card show. Hope you enjoy the conversation. All right, everybody. Like I said, we're joined today by JT from triple crown 24. JT is a friend of the program, a friend of mine, and we're really glad you're here, JT. Thanks for hanging out for a little while. That's cool to be on the show. I guess I'll not need to listen to this week's show since I'll be on it. So that'll be a little disappointing, but I'll catch you next week then. You don't want to, you don't want to just go back and listen and glaze yourself a little bit. No, no, you might get some people that would want to do that. That's not your style. That doesn't surprise me at all. So if you don't know who JT is, JT has a YouTube channel. He's a fellow creator. The YouTube channel is triple crown 24, correct JT? Yep. Okay. Really great content. He does a lot of a card show walking content and it's a very unique take on it that I hadn't seen before. He does voiceover after the fact, talks about his thought process and you know what he bought, why he bought it, whether it was for the PC, whether it was for resale. I know he does a lot on eBay as well. And then we see each other at shows a lot. That's how I first met JT. You used to buy from me a lot just randomly while walking around and we have a lot of the same taste in cards and I didn't even know you had a YouTube channel till one of my friends reached out. And this was before we did video. One of my friends reached out to me and said, Hey, you're famous this week. And I went, what are you talking about? He goes, you're on triple crown's new video. And I went, who? And so I went and looked and lo and behold, there I was. I don't remember whether it was Eastgate or Xenia, but yeah, so I was like, Oh, I know who that guy is. It took me a minute to put it together. And then since then we've gotten to know each other a lot better and always enjoy talking to you. So let's just jump right into that. Like what, what was your journey in sports cards? How did you get into this world and how did it become a business for you? Oh boy. Well, there's a lot of lore there. I'm one of the few that I would call a lifer. I can't say that I've ever really been like out of action for more than six months at a time. I mean, I've never really taken any, you hear a lot of people, I got out of it this year and then I returned during COVID. That was not me. I've been going strong with it and I've always sold cards because I mean, I opened boxes, I joined breaks, I grew out of things that I didn't want anymore. So selling to me has always been a part of it, but it wasn't until around 2019 ish that I decided to pursue it full time and I didn't know I was pursuing it full time when I did pursue it. Uh, it was one of those things where the universe told me like, Hey, you're, you're going to do this. Uh, there's a, a big show down here in Cincinnati happens twice a year. It's the molar show and it's extremely difficult to get into, but somehow I locked into getting a table. So I started preparing to do that show and I thought it was going to be a one-off and eventually I saw, I thought, you know, maybe I should practice, like go out and like set up before I go to this show. That might be a good idea. And I found a show up in Lansing, Michigan, which is four and a half hours from me. That's an interesting spot to practice, but right. I'm from Michigan. So I'm like, well, you know what? This is a little, uh, I guess an opportunity to go to the Homeland for, for a day. Why not go ahead and try it? I mean, this is, I mean, 2019 ball time. I remember cause I was listening to, I think it was Astros, Yankees, ALCS game on the radio on the drive up. And I set up at the show the next morning. I was not prepared whatsoever. I thought I was, I was not, I still have a picture on my phone of the first setup. And this guy came up and I had a bunch of hops dynasty patch autos that didn't fit into my PC anymore. Nobody who was really that great. I think David Ortiz might've been the only notable name and he wiped me out of all of them. And it was about $500. and I was thinking, Oh my gosh, I'm rich. This is, this is great. I could do this. So I just kept setting up that shows like every weekend I'd be like, all right, well what can I do this weekend? And then when I got to that molar show, that's when I had my first thousand dollars show and I was like, okay, uh, let me, let me just try it. Let's see how far I can go and I'm still going. So we have not answered that question yet. That's awesome. I know that, uh, you talk about going to Michigan for, for your first show. I had a very similar, uh, the very first show that I ever set up at, uh, was six hours away. It was almost to Chicago. Um, and it was the same thing. Like, I think back to that now and it was like three different, four rows and one little showcase and I sold a ton of one and $2 cards and a few showcase things. And you were talking about dynasty and we'll get wiped out on dynasty stuff and people heard $500 and probably a lot of folks that listened to us are folks who are newer to the hobby dynasty. Just so you're aware guys did not used to be a thousand dollars for one card. It didn't used to be that way. I'm guessing when you were opening it, it was what? One 49 a box. No, I wasn't in quite that early. I, okay. All of those, yeah. I had only opened one box of dynasty in my life to that point because it was in it was 2018 dynasty that was on sale. I was at a shop in Arizona. This is spring trading 2019 and I'm like, you know what? Why not? Like, let me just try it one time. Yeah. I did not hit a show. Hey, I got an Alex Bregman and I'm like, ah, I don't really have use for this. But the other ones I had just bought, I was like, oh, I'm going to try it. I'm going to try it. The other ones I had just bought on the secondary market. So, okay. I mean, people here are 500 now. Like it was probably only, I say only, but I mean the case was probably only $1,500 back then. Yeah. I'm sure people are falling out of their chairs to hear that now. It's, it's crazy though because it's same, same story. I think every person who does this for a living has a very similar story to that. Unless they just got bankrolled from the get go. Like you start with what you have and you turn it into a business. You hope that you have some things that people want and you learn as you go what people want and what to buy and what not to buy. Uh, so yeah. Now when did you start, uh, posting your, your stuff to YouTube? How long have you had that channel up? Uh, that's a very common misconception about my channels that it's newer, but it's not. I have been doing the very first time I posted a video and before anybody goes and searches for it, it's no longer up. Hard to burst your bubble. But it was probably back in like 2013, 2014. Okay. But those videos are, they're gone now. So sorry about that. But I then started posting regularly in spring 2018. So I'm going on seven and a half years. That's kind of crazy to think about as a reflect on that. To be frank, you're one of the OG creators that like in this space, like it wasn't really a thing until COVID outside of the guys who were like breaking on YouTube. Oh no. I mean if you, you go back to like early YouTube, like I'm thinking about it now. I mean, even I was a little, people thought I was new school back then because there's guys who are making videos. Um, and I'd say like as early as like 2010 is when you really see like a really strong footprint. I would in the earliest videos that I can remember it was like 2007 cards infinity, uh, bringing the break to YouTube. Uh, and that, that opened the door for a lot of things. But back then it was just people like taking their smartphone, aiming it down and showing like, Hey, here's my carts. And that, that was it. That's all you, that's all you did. It wasn't any of the fancy production that you see today. Uh, but I upped my, I kind of have evolved. So I started off by showing my collection in the beginning. And then as I went full time, I started sharing stories about that. And I, I was getting some traction on it. I think my channel grew to about 15 to 1700 subscribers. It wasn't small potatoes. Uh, but I wasn't as big as I am now. And I'm still not that large. My channel's tripled in size since then. But the turning point for me was when I started blogging and I had, I had seen people doing blogs and I thought I could do that. I mean, that, that's really simple. So I asked my fiance, she thought I was crazy, but I asked for a GoPro for Christmas and I'm like, just watch. And she likes to take a lot of credit for it. I give her that credit because she sees like the ad revenue that I get and stuff. And she's like, okay, okay. Like, yeah, I was responsible for that. I'm like, yeah, you got me the GoPro. You got me the, the chest mount that I wear and it opened a lot of doors for me that I never thought it would open. Um, being able to go around and like people recognizing me at shows, even though I don't really show my face all that much, it was really, it was surreal. It still is like, it's wild. Yeah. I'm sure you experienced it too. Like when people come up talking about the pod and all that, it's wild. You don't, I'm sure you were allowed to say, well, Jason and I didn't get into this to like have people recognize us. Uh, we got into this because we love cards and we thought there was kind of a, a gap in what was being portrayed. And we wanted to be people who shot straight and didn't paint a rosy picture when there wasn't one. And, and told people the truth about things when it was good, what's good, when it's bad, it's bad. Um, and going, you know, launching the YouTube this year and going to video this year has been a little bit wild. I get exactly what you're saying. Um, so you posted a new episode yesterday. It had been a little while since you had posted. I know you don't have a super like regular posting schedule. Like we drop an episode every Friday. You drop stuff when you have it and that works. Uh, but you dropped an episode yesterday that I was glued to. Like first thing that caught my eye was the cover, uh, the, the thumbnail because it's a card that you sent me a picture of as soon as you bought it. Uh, cause you knew I would love it. We have very similar tastes in cards and I saw it and I went, Oh, this is going to be a fun episode. And I turned it on and I was, I could not stop watching it because you went into a philosophy that you've talked to me a little bit about. You've talked to Jason a little bit about, but you really kind of dove into it. Um, now if you're watching this episode, I really want you to go watch that. Don't do it till after you finish watching this one though. Uh, but then go watch JT's episode because it's really, really good. Um, over the last year or so I've watched as your showcases have kind of morphed and then for you to really kind of verbalize it like you did in that episode, tell people kind of what that philosophy shift has been for you, why you made that shift and do you feel like it's working? Uh, I think it's working right now. And the thing is, is that I'm always trying to pivot. I'm always trying to stay on top of whatever is new. And we've had, we've had plenty of conversations where I just come up to your table and pick your brain about certain things and just out of curiosity. And I like to do that. Sometimes I just like to see how other people are approaching things to see if maybe I can fine tune it. I don't want to be a copycat. I mean we're kind of in a copycat industry in some sense. Um, but I'm not going to just, I just want to see what works and see if it would work for me as well. The idea of what I talked about is, is that we are in a very competitive buying space and it's kind of counterintuitive to what you would normally think because we are buying and selling pieces of cardboard. I mean, and it's simplified safe. That's what we are doing, right? Yes. They have no real value. And we have gotten to the point now where the market is, it is just completely bizarre to me that people value their cash, not as much as they value their cards. And I understand that to some extent. I mean, I've talked about this, a very good friend of mine once put it this way, is that a rich person talking to a rich person, like I have a million dollars. Okay. I also have a million dollars, but what they might not have is a Mike Trout first Bowman orange auto, right? There's only 25 of those. So there's more than 25 people that have a million dollars. So I can understand it in that extent. But the level of protection over cards is, I mean we're talking about like retail parallels and stuff that people are getting very defensive over and this, I see it on Tik Tok all the time where people are like, Oh, well, any vendor that's offering you 80%, you know, they're, they're a scammer or anything like, let me, let me clarify something. That is not a scam. I mean, people like to use that cause it's a hot buzzword. That is not a scam. You say it all the time. If two people are agreeing upon something, and I'll tell you what, there's a lot of cards that I would love to sell that 80% of the last sale, but I can't because I can't find anyone to buy them. Exactly. So with how competitive the space has become, especially with the repackers, I am not going to play the game where I pay up and I give some credit to you guys as well, because listening, I mean, you did your whole buying series and that kind of challenged me to say like, okay, should I really be paying this strong on things because I don't want to, I especially don't want to, to scrape by with a few percentage points and deal with the aggravation. I usually deal with, with repackers. I told myself this summer, something has to change either. I need to, I don't know what I need to do. So I've played around with it and I've gotten to the point now where I say, screw it, I'll buy what I want and I treat it the same way that I treat the stock market. I am looking to get great cards at a good price and a good price is very subjective. That doesn't mean a specific percentage. That means a price that works for me where I have a target exit price that I think is realistic. I know where I'm going to sell that card. I have an idea of what the buyer of that card looks like or know the exact buyer. And I have a timeline to get that done for myself. And that's kind of where I've pivoted to just because that's what the market has kind of told me. This is what you got to do to stand out. That's, that was going to be kind of my followup question because I have a, I have a similar philosophy on about half of my showcase. And then the other half is stuff that I know I can turn really fast and generate consistent revenue with. When you start focusing, I don't want to say exclusively, but heavily on the type of stuff that you're talking about. Like one of the cards you talked about in your video yesterday that was a very interesting case study to me was the 2018 independence day. Mike trout and a PSA eight. You said you paid damn near the last PSA nine sale for that card. And then when you sold it, you ended up selling it for a couple hundred bucks more than that PSA nine sale. Am I remembering that right? Yep. Yeah. So for those of you out there listening that are so tied in this kind of mentality, like being a slave comp, just a slave to the comps, your brain's probably exploding and you're correct when you're talking about things like retail parallels, like a Jane Daniels green mosaic. Nobody's paying, you know, 40% more for that than the last 10 sales because there's 10 million of them. But that might trout there's 76 of, and I'm guessing, I know how tough that set was to grade. My guess is that there aren't too many graded higher than that PSA eight, which gives you a lot of leverage in the marketplace for actual end user collectors. You don't always have to sell to people trying to flip and make money off of the work you did. Oh, absolutely. And that's in a market downturn. You guys talked about that on your show a few weeks ago. What can you do to kind of insulate yourself against that? The people that will still be there when things turn sour are the collectors. I mean, look at how many people, I mean, you tell me if you've known people who were into sports cards that are now doing the one piece of Pokemon thing. Can you think of a few right off the top? Absolutely. And they, and they, before this, before the sports cards, it was sneakers. And before that it was records. They moved to whatever the easiest thing to flip at that moment is. The nice thing about the way the sports card market works is you said something about the stock market earlier, and it's very similar in thinking, we're going to have ups and downs, but almost every down is higher than the previous down. And with as, as waves come in, new people come into the hobby. And when it gets hard, maybe 80% of those new people leave, but we keep 20%. And so that floor of, of number of collectors is still rising with each movement in the market. Yeah, for sure. There, I mean, there is a ton of people who will come in and even they start thinking that they're going to flip and then they just, they fall in love with it, which is what I genuinely hope happens is that I get, I get people who ask me, like, do you have any tips on how to be a good sports card seller? And I tell them the first step is to become a good sports card collector. Cause a lot of what I talk about, the reason that I'm able to find these opportunities like that trout is from my own experiences and it doesn't always work. I made that clear in the video too. Like I am wrong. I, I'm trying to think of my head of a card I have right now. Um, I have a, for example, a 2022 tops, Allen and Ginter Chrome Babe Roof X-Fractor the X-Fractors on the surface. You say, okay, big deal. Well, they were case hits and Ginter Chrome when it was a standalone product. Yeah. It has a print run of around 14 and I see something like that. It's the right player. I mean, it's Babe Roof. There's Babe Roof collectors out there. If there's not, then I'm doing, I'm doing this wrong. Uh, and I bet that there's someone out there who is either a fan of that set because Ginter very popular for set builders or a Babe Roof fan that would want it. And I've posted it on eBay and I've gotten zero bites. It's been up for several. months now. That was one of those that was a swing and a miss. I paid pretty much, there was two sales of the card ever. I paid exactly what the previous sale was. That's what the sticker price was. And I just said, I'll take it because I thought that I could get closer to what that first sale was. And so far I've been wrong. Maybe while we're recording this, someone smashes the buy it now and I'm proven wrong there. But for now I've been wrong, but I I'm not wrong as many times as I'm right. And that's, that's the really the key in all this. Well, and that's what sets aside a professional from somebody who's trying to just kind of figure this out. And there's nothing wrong with getting into this and just trying to figure it out. We were all in that spot at one point. But as you learn more, you're going to lose fewer times. But if, if you do this for any period of time and somebody walks up to you and tells you that they've never taken an L, they either have been doing it for five minutes or they're lying. You talk about that Babe Ruth X Factor. I've got a card sitting in my showcase right now that I think I'm going on month six of having. Now it's an awesome card. And if I never sell it, I'm happy that I own it. That's kind of my, my barometer for when I'm going to buy something that's a little bricky, but it's a 2009 upper deck black. That was when they were a redemption and it's a Tom Landry cut auto number to 26 months on that already. Yeah. It's a really cool card and it's just sitting there and a lot of people look at it and a lot of people like it and nobody buys it. And it, I'm okay because I bought it at a price that I felt very comfortable with. And if it don't sell it, it's a really cool piece to have. Right. It, uh, that's kind of my barometer when I buy things like that. I know you bought that Barry Sanders and in your mind it was kind of the same thing. Like if you never sell that card, you're not going to be angry. Would you like to sell it and get what the market seems to think it's probably worth? Absolutely. But if you don't, you're not going to be upset. No. And that's the beauty of being able to buy things that you like. And you and I both know that when you're doing it full time, you don't always get to buy the things that you necessarily want to buy. There was a time I have to sometimes, right? There was a time, I think it was right before one of the ship Shawana shows where I went to a local show and there was these two uptowns and I put them in my stack and I basically got them at 70% of value. And that's the only time I've bought uptowns in my life. But if you're going to give them to me at that number, then I won't say no at that, at that point, like sure. But they, I like the downtown significantly more. I'm not a fan of those uptowns at all, but it's something that fell into my lap. And sometimes there's things that I get as part of bulk buys or I buy a collection and I don't love all of it, but I do make sure that I love some of the pieces. And if I get stuck with it, so be it. And what's kind of funny is that I find that a lot of my best card purchasing decisions have been made more collector mindsets. My favorite card, well, one it's tough. It's like choosing between children, right? One of my favorite cards of my collection is a Calvin Johnson exquisite true RPA, number two 99. And it's a PSA seven. It's a PSA seven looks nicer in my eyes, but it's one of those that it doesn't pop up for sale too often. And the story of how I got it is actually the same mindset as what I'm using right now. A friend of mine had bought it and I kind of, I was in a position where I'm like, I can't spend this much on a PC card right now. I just can't do it. And I, he was going to buy it to resell and I'm said, it's all yours, but please let me have the first crack at it. Yeah. So time goes by and he ends up consigning a large part of his collect or his inventory with me. So I was consigning it and we, I had made a massive deal. Um, this was, this was a five figure deal and I was going to get a cut as the commission for it. And I was looking at the sales of the Calvin Johnson, the highest ever sale had just happened. And it was Ryan card collector too, who bought his cause he was doing that set. I think it was like 1600 or something. Uh, and I was thinking, look, I told him this is that I'm willing. This is what my offer is to you. Like I'd like this much in commission. And then this card you're, I know what you're into it for. This saves you a little bit of money. And I ended up getting the card roughly for 1900 value, which is the all time high on that card. Am I crazy for doing that? No, because the next time it sold was over a year later, it was a PSA nine. Would you like to guess what it was? You said the seven did 16. You got into yours at 19. Uh, well the, the one that had sold, I think was, it was either raw or it was a nine mine and mine is the seven. Okay. Um, and then a nine sold. What year did it sell? Was it before or after the hall of fame induction? That's going to help me put my brain to the, to the number. It was this year. Um, I would say like August or September of this year, probably 35 48. Okay. All right. There you go. Yeah. That's that point. It's a card that doesn't come up available. And when those cards don't come up available very often, that's a card. And you've heard me say it. You've heard Jason say it. That's a card that a flipper ain't buying. That's going to a Calvin Johnson collector like you. And when it goes into the PC, that shit ain't coming back out. It's just there. And now there's, there's 97 of them left on the market or whatever that number is. Um, yeah, yeah. That's, I mean, that's awesome though. Those, we, we say that there's the three D's of why those cards come back out. It's death, divorce and debt. Yeah. And it's all very three things that you don't really want. Those are usually the reasons that those types of cards come up. And I always use this term. You only get so many bites at the Apple. If there's something out there that is really special, you don't know when the next time you're going to see it is. I have a colleague of mine that was looking for a specific Albert pools card. And I woke up one morning to a text showing me that he found one finally listed after four years of searching. And I saw it at sold. And I, my first text on was please tell me that you got it. And he told me, yes. And I was thrilled for him because who knows when the next one will pop up. I mean, yeah, it's people think that these cards are readily available. And I say that this card is numbered to 99. Well out of 99 back in 2007, it means a lot different than today. Yeah. So we have that conversation with folks all the time. Like the, the example I always use is the 1991, um, of 10,000, uh, elite series out of Donruss. Like those are still super sought after. And it was way harder to pull one of those than it was to pull an orange to 25 today. Like it really was. Um, the, the Frank Thomas in that set still does crazy money in high grade. So let's transition that into, you know, kind of this new philosophy you're, you're using, which is, is working. It makes sense to me. Some people listen to this are like, that's crazy. I, it may not be for you, but what do you see? And you're, one of the things I admire the most about you and the way you approach this is you're very, um, you're very data oriented. You're very process oriented and you actually study what you're thinking about doing before you jump in and do it. So looking at the market right now and over the next six months, the next 12 months, the next 18 months, what do you see happening? What do you see being the drivers of what's going to cause change? Because the one thing we know about this space is there's always going to be change. Yeah. It's funny. Cause I, I was doing an interview not that long ago and I talked about how I feel like PSA is probably aligning the stars to do something with repacks. And then the next week the floodgates open and the PSA offers come out and we hear that there's the PSA certified repacks. And I'm like, okay, well I wasn't expecting it to happen that quickly, but I think that you will see, we're already seeing it, but you'll continue to see a consolidation of the market. And there's some red flags. I say red flags and that kind of indicates that something bad is happening. And I, consolidation is scary. Monopolies can be scary. I'm not always a fan of them, but it doesn't necessarily mean it's a bad thing. And what do I mean by that is that there is a lot of hands in the pot right now. I think that the repack game is so broken that it feels like we could do it and anybody can make money on it. And usually when it gets to that point, it doesn't last like that much longer. I think back, we go back five years ago, the project 2020 saga, when people, you could buy these cards from tops. And by the time that you got them mailed to you, they would be five X what you paid. It was a broken system. And eventually enough people got into it where it came crashing down. I think that we might be reaching that critical mass because there can only be so many people doing it because you need, in order to sustain a repack group, for example, or even just a regular group breaker, you need a vast sea of customers. And really what you need is a few whales to help you out. The tricky part about whales is that sometimes their attention spans can be very short or they flame out very quickly. Big body, tiny brain. And I've seen that happen. I've seen some guys who they just go ham for a long time and then they just drop out. And unless you have a will to take their place, especially in these smaller rooms, you're done. You cannot keep doing it. Especially if these guys are going to work on such tight margins, there is such minimal room for error that you're walking a really fine line. If one of these people is not around anymore. And that's honestly what I could see happening is that whether they transitioned into Pokemon repacks or one piece repacks or just some other form of gambling, whatever it may be that catches their interest, I definitely could see them kind of transitioning out. And that would be a massive hit to the repack game. I think we're seeing it on the breaking side of things with tops. I mean, there's a story about them cutting out some of the smaller breakers. We've seen it on the grading side of things where ESA seems to be just, you know, they're Pac-Man and they're gobbling up all the ghosts that are going around in the machine. It's happening in pretty much every segment where you're seeing this consolidation. I don't know what that really looks like at the end, but I would say that what things look like today will look vastly different in 18 months from now. I know it's kind of ambiguous, but there's no other way around it. So let's talk about the singles market specifically, because that's the pool that we both play in the most. Jason and I are on the record as saying that we see a, people tell us we're doom and gloom. We're not. We've just been around a long time and you have to, and you've seen the cycles and they're pretty consistent. We had a little lag in the cycle this last time around because COVID just pause buttoned everything and supercharged stuff. But the sports card hobby in general has three to five year cycles of ups and downs, and they're pretty consistent over time. We feel like we're heading into a correction period, probably a 20 to 30% correction period before we start climbing back out of that. Do you see it the same way or do you think that we're going to kind of continue on this seemingly parabolic curve? I don't know anymore because I feel that there's been several times where I'm like, okay, this is where it's going to happen. And I think what you're seeing that's different this time around compared to previous times is that people have become much more stubborn. They are dug in a lot more. I'll pose a question to you. All of the Trey Lance and Zach Wilson and name your favorite bust quarterback from the last few years. Yep. Those cards were all over showcases a couple of years ago. Where are they right now in your opinion? Oh, they're just in people's closets. Right. Yeah. And so they would rather keep them there rather than just move off from them and go on about their business. And that's what I see a lot of now is where people will just, they will ride things until it becomes profitable again, which if you're not doing it as a significant portion of your income, okay. But I don't know. I've never operated on that. If I had something that was a sinking ship, I kind of like, I'd rather get off the ship right now than sink with it. Especially if it can be salvaged. I'm the exact same way. We talk about the velocity of money all the time. I would much rather move something if it's on its way down, even if I take a small loss and get my money back so that I can put it into something else than just ride that into the ground. But that brings up an interesting dilemma within the hobby. Less and less, in my opinion, I do not have one single solitary ounce of data that isn't just from personal experience. So I may be completely wrong here. You may actually have the data knowing you. It feels like there is much, much, much less individual wax being ripped. The wax that's being ripped in large quantities is breakers. And that is the people participating in those large scale breaks are a small section of the hobby. The wax that's being opened by the majority of people who are collectors in the hobby is retail wax. The price on hobby wax continues to move upwards. The value that we get out of that hobby wax continues to go downwards. We saw it with a product like Transcendent this year. The value in Transcendent was cut by 65% and the price was cut by 40%. So we see that happening, yet we also see the singles market stagnating to a point. I don't think we're necessarily dropping, dropping at this point, but we're definitely stagnating a little bit, especially on the readily available stuff. And there's a little bit less of it available to buy because it's not being opened as much. Is there a time bomb ticking here? It's tough. I think what you just said is the reason why repacks are so prominent. Do people lose when they get in the repacks? Sure, but they don't lose as bad. You're always going to have something to show for it. It depends on how the repack works because I know some of them do it with team breaks and all that. But generally speaking, you at least have something to show for it or your expected ROI is better. I look at it and I've seen some data about it, but in most places, the average person who comes into a hobby shop, and I don't know how frequently they're visiting, but the average trip to a hobby shop is probably going to be anywhere from $150 to $250. And I would say 80% of the people who come in are spending $350 or less. That may vary depending on what region you're in and how much money is in the area. When you think about that, baseball, you can get a decent hobby box for $350. How many decent basketball or football hobby boxes can you buy for $350? Can't. No. Doesn't exist. It doesn't make any sense for people to do it because they just get crushed. The ones who are opening it, do you think that they really care about selling those cards that they got out of their $700 box of Absolute? Probably not. If it's a $50 card, it probably just goes in a closet because $50, I'm going to guess, is not a lot of money to them. They don't care. Yeah. So that's a problem too, is that if people, because the lifeblood of the hobby is opening up packs or single sellers, we don't exist if people are not getting these cards out of those packs. Yes. Absolutely. That's the point I was making. If people aren't opening products, seven steps down, it's turtles all the way down, seven steps down, your local shows don't exist anymore. It's really tough. I mean, the other part of it, it's nice with, I mean, the online breaking platforms is nice to have because you and I are privileged in a sense that we live in very population dense areas where there is a, it's your choice what shop you want to go to. There's people who don't have a card store within a hundred miles of their house. And I think that's something that Fanatics is working on, just kind of conversations I've had. They want to be able to support hobby shops that want to open in these areas where there just simply is nothing. They want that. But finding someone to be able to do that is a bit of a challenge, especially in lower income areas. I mean, you had, he did the interview of New Art Cards, he sent himself a hundred thousand to get started. I mean, there's just not a lot of people willing to take that risk in a business model that is really, you got to really love it to want to do it. I'll just say that. I'm not trying to say it's a bad model, but it's not the best model out there by any means. No. And I think that I will say, and I know you're plugged into a lot of these conversations. When I hear you say that Fanatics wants that to happen, I feel the same way about that as I did when I heard Upper Deck's president give his diatribe about the price of wax. Well, let's see you do something about it. It tops you, Fanatics, you want to put a hobby shop in the middle of Iowa somewhere? Here's a crazy idea. Don't ask the proprietor to have to spend a quarter million dollars a month on wax to be able to be open. Like let people buy five hobby boxes, not three cases or nothing. There's a certain amount of that talk of what we want to do that comes across very condescending and hypocritical when I know a lot of how the back end of it works. Yes. It sounds great on paper. It truly does. Part of it, I mean, we as consumers can speak with our wallets. I don't want people to stop opening wax because I want to be able to buy their singles. But I also don't want wax prices to be what they are. I would like to open a product myself. It's fun. Everybody likes doing it. It's good to get those cards out there and get them so that people can go out and chase whatever it is that they're chasing. But there are so many people where they're just getting crushed. It makes less and less sense. I hear more and more people who gravitate towards repacks or they only do singles because they have been priced out of opening this product. A lot of it is getting open in a lot of these break rooms and stuff. I don't know where it all is going. I have a feeling there's a lot of people with a lot of white boxes in their closet. They get their bubble mailer in and they take out the good card and they just throw it in a pile somewhere. I don't know what it looks like. These are largely nameless, faceless people. Maybe they just don't care. Especially if it's, like I said earlier, if it's someone who's spending $700 on a hobby box, I'd be willing to bet they don't really care that much about a $50 card for the most part. They're out there chasing the big hit. But there's a lot of people who do care about that $50 card, whatever it may be. But you just have to have the right people willing to open the product and then sell or trade their cards, whether it be to people like us or they go and get a table at a show themselves. But it's just not happening. So I am slightly concerned about that. The good news for you and I is that we like a lot of older stuff and a lot of that stuff is already out of packs. But for people who want to deal in the ultra modern, it definitely creates some problems. Yeah. And I think that that's a really good point. I get more joy out of going and digging through a box that hasn't been touched in 20 years and seeing what I can find than I do ripping a $3,000 box of new wax. If I was going to spend $4,000 on a hobby box of something, I would find somebody that had a hobby box of 2003, 2004 Topscrum basketball. I'd much rather rip that for $4,000 than new NT football. It's not even close. And beyond that, I'd much rather find, I've got a friend, I told you about this shop in Circleville. Shout out, Bill. I know you're watching this. I have offered Bill more times than I can count. We've been friends for 35 years. I've offered Bill more times than I can count. I'll give you a grand. Let me pick one four row box on your back wall. You haven't looked at it in 10 years at least. I have no idea what's in it. I'll give you a grand. Let me pick a random one. I would much rather do that than spend a grand on a new hobby box, but I'm a weirdo. So I would, I would probably be in the same, but I would like to go to town on that. But I think for shops, I mean, you mentioned shops too, is that the way that a lot of people will see what top sells the products for on their website and they think that shops are getting it below that at a ridiculous markup on panini products. Yeah, that's still happening. But as they get phased out, I can tell you right now that that is not happening. And there's also your rebuys and all that. The margin that tops has brick and mortars working off of now is not like the panini days. It's probably better for them to buy singles. The other, the other side of that coin too, is that now people expect more for those singles. You talk about how 50% was the standard that shows, I mean, there's a lot of shops that still operate that way and people will walk in and they'll be insulted. And I'll see that I go, that's just, that's straight up criminal and all that. Like, okay, then we won't have shops anymore if you, and I can almost guarantee you that people don't want that to happen more than they want the shops to either pay up or, or get out. I would like to have those places. Well, what the problem is, is that very few people are able to think further than about six inches in front of their nose and, and it's unfortunate, but it's true. You can't run a business on 10% margins. And when you talk about fanatics and the margins they've got people operating on, people would be shocked. And they're, they're not even real margins either. Like you might have a 20% margin on a product, but you're being forced to buy five products that you can't give away. You know, you're being forced to buy t-shirts and card stands and everything else. By the time it's all said and done, you're probably operating on more like an eight to 10% margin on wax. And it's why I'm a firm believer that a successful card shop over the next four or five years is not going to be the shop, you know, it's not going to be the Tom Brady's card vaults. They're going to be fine. The Midwest cards are going to be fine because they've got sweetheart deals and cool. Good for them. But your average LCS is going to have to be a place that gives collectors an opportunity to buy cool singles, creates a community that people feel comfortable hanging out in, coming to the shop and digging for six, seven hours, having a good time. Those are the shops that are going to survive. The guys who are trying to survive and play in a, in a game where they're competing with the Midwest and the card vaults, you're not winning that. That's not a game. You're not going to compete with David Adams and win. Like it just isn't how it works. No, I think that we experienced it too, as dealers at shows to kind of like, I don't want to get us, I don't want to just totally ignore what you just said, but as a, as a as you were speaking there, what can you do to stand out? I think is what every shop has to answer. And that's also kind of what I think we as dealers answer as well. Both of us have, you know, we have the tablecloth, we have a sign and anybody can get a tablecloth and a sign. I mean, it's not, it's not all that hard, but I think that that professional presentation goes a long way. I'll have people tell me, Oh, it's my first show I'm setting up. What are some advice that you may have? I tell them, here's two things that you can do. Have a organized display that looks nice. And number two, have your stuff priced. Yes. If you do those two things, you will already be ahead of 50% of the room and you will be shocked how many sales that you will make over someone else who does not have those two things. Yes. It is. It is just, it's that simple and people don't believe it. It is. Think about it in any other environment. If you walk into a retail store and it's cluttered and you can't figure out how much anything is, how long do you stay and how much do you buy? You don't. And I also think it's really important that, you know, folks like you, me and Jason, I wish more people with platforms were honest about this. Let's not pretend that some of the opportunities that we get aren't thanks to the platforms that we have. Now, have we worked for that? Have we worked hard to create that? And do I feel like we've earned those things? Yes. But the fact of the matter is, is I'm not going to pretend like some of these guys do that, oh gee, golly willikers, somebody gave me a great deal on something just because they felt like it. A lot of times we get opportunities at things because of the platform that we have. And right, wrong, or indifferent, I think it's important to be honest about that too. So. Sure. The big example that I see a lot, I'll throw the name out there, Ryan Card Collector 2. If you go to Ship Shawana or Grove City Card Fest when he's there, there are people literally lined up to sell to him. And a lot of times I think that really large content creators, I don't think it really happens with us. I mean, you can disagree with me here if you see differently, but there is a bit of jealousy. They see that like, well, why aren't they lining up at my table to come sell me cards? It's because he built them. I mean, he puts in the work. A lot of these large content creators, they get these opportunities because they have put themselves in a position to succeed. Sometimes it is. Through a lot of work. Yeah. It is sometimes dumb luck. I have had some dumb luck before. There was a time that I walked in, it was the very first Midwest Monster. Someone had a run of the first three or four years of Patrick Mahomes Silver Prisms. All PSA 9s, all priced the same. One problem. 2018 Silvers are SSPs because the only way to get them is in hobby and they were one per hobby box. So I bought that card for 60 bucks and I came home and I sold it for $1,100. That is dumb luck. I learned about that. I knew that that was a thing in that set. So you could say in a sense that I put myself in a position to succeed there, but I've had deals walk up to me where someone was like, hey, they said that you're a good guy to deal with. And I'm like, well, I really appreciate that. And I've had those opportunities walk up to me before because of that too. But that's because I was able to differentiate myself. There's a lot of people out there who, you know, if you want, you say it all, I don't know if you say it all the time, but you do say it where if you want to get 100% of the value for your cards, you better be willing to do 100% of the work. And some of that requires patience. Some of that requires luck, but also you have to earn that. You have to build yourself up to that. There are no shortcuts aside from, you know, every now and then, yeah, you will have a shortcut that pops up and it's nice. But to be sustainable, it's a lot of grinding it out. Yeah, you do the work on one or the other. Yeah, it's like, and you brought up Ryan and I'll even like a guy like Jeff and you listen to the pod, anybody who listens to the pod knows exactly how I feel about Jeff Wilson. But I can't say the dude hasn't worked hard. I can't say that because I know what goes into the content that we make and he makes five times as much. Like, so I know that he's working. Do I have much respect for him? No, but do I respect the fact that he works? Yeah, I'll give that. What I wish more people were willing to do is own what you just said. Yes, we worked hard to get here. Ryan worked hard to build his following to the point where there's people in line. He worked hard so that, you know, the very first year that Topps decided to put influencers in the space on cards, he had one of them in big league. He worked hard for that. I'd love to hear him say, yeah, I do get deals at 60% a lot of times because of that work. That's where I wish there was a little more transparency and honesty across the board, not just those people, which is why I try really hard to give it when there's context to do it. Because one thing I can't stand, Jason will tell you more than anything else. We're all hypocrites at some point. The question is what you do with it when you're confronted with it. I try really hard not to be one. And when I find out I have the one, I try to own it. So I don't ever want anybody to be able to say, oh, Gary said this, but he did this. No, not if I can help it. It's a bruise to the ego when it happens. And I mean, just because you said something one time doesn't mean that you're locked into it forever. There's been times where I thought about things a certain way and I'm sorry, my dog's going crazy in the background. That's okay. I'm surprised mine haven't already. There are times, I'm sorry, I lost track of what I'm saying. No, you're okay. You were saying there are times where you've had a thought about something, you felt about something a certain way, you maybe said something strongly about it and then had time to reconsider. Yeah, I will get different opinions on it and I say, you know what? Okay, I can at least look at this differently. I'm not gonna say that I'm gonna completely change my mind and my stance on it, but I'll at least consider what you have to say or whatever the circumstance may be. And I don't have a specific case in the top of my head. But there's also, I mean, there's a lot of times when you're making content and all that, where people will, I'm trying to think of how to put this. They'll try to take words and spin them, I guess, or think that it's a blanket statement that applies. And I've seen that too. Like one of the things that I see some content creators, there was one on TikTok the other day where it was someone who was set up at a show and someone asked, what percentage do you buy it? I think that's a pretty straightforward question. And he told them 80%. Well, this really set someone off. Someone in the comments goes, well, are you willing to sell at 80% or is it just a one-way street? This is a vendor. This is a person walking around a show. Yeah, it is not one in the same. It is not a trade night. It's not a brick and mortar. This is a card show with a card vendor. So that's one of the feedback that I have gotten on my videos before too, is that when those types of interactions come up, and that's one of the reasons I wanted to get my GoPro going was because I have had a lot of those interactions off camera and I'm like, man, I wish I could actually show this rather than just tell stories about it. Because number one, it's really entertaining sometimes. I mean, I have some cult status memes on my channel that people, if they migrate over here and watch this, they'll probably litter them in the comments section from some interactions that have happened before. And every once in a while, they'll drop them in on a video. But I like showing when things don't go well too, because it is, I hope that someone out there sees it who might be going through the same thing. Like, yeah, I deal with that too. That is super annoying. I hate when that happens to me. So I hope that that reaches those people or someone else kind of sees it and says, like, oh, I'm doing that. Like, maybe that's not such a good look. Yeah, and I know that for me, it's Jason is very good. I think he almost relishes it of when he thinks I'm being too aggressive with a thought or too black and white with something. He really relishes throwing the flag on me. But he's also seen that that's kind of actually how I am. Like, I'm the guy who, if my max on a card is X, unless it's something I'm 100% sure I'm never gonna see again, I will lose that deal over a penny. I just will. And I've done it. And he laughs at me for it. But it's how I have to do things. Because if I don't, one day, all of a sudden, I find myself and my margins have changed by 8% because I broke my own rules so many times. So I'm with you there. I think that not having the opportunity where it gets us a lot of times is so much of our following follows us on short form. Our YouTube following is what it is. We love and appreciate all of you. Wish you were more of you. But our short form content gets a lot of activity, but you lose a lot of context. So we'll get a lot of like, I can't believe you said this. And it's like, go watch the whole episode. You caught this 35 seconds and you didn't catch the minute before it and the minute after it that makes it all make sense. So that's one of the pitfalls. Yeah, but anyhow, we've been rambling for almost an hour. I appreciate you coming on today. It was short notice and I really enjoyed it. Floor is yours. Tell everybody if they don't know where they can find you, how they can interact with you and your content, all that good stuff. Oh, I appreciate you having me on. I love listening to the show. I kind of like to, this isn't to, I don't know how to say this without being, I can't even think of the word, but I like iron sharpens iron kind of content where I can have something that's really going to challenge my thinking at the very least, or it's gonna force me to consider something and think critically about something, which is why I think that your content meshes well with my interests. And I'm glad that I got to be a part of it today. So I appreciate you extending the olive branch to me to come on the pod. My channel, Triple Crown 24 on YouTube. My TikTok game is pretty weak. I'm working on it, but it's Triple Crown, ITS and Triple Crown over on TikTok, or Triple Crown 24, you can find me there. Same thing on Instagram as well. I'm most active on Instagram and YouTube. We're working on the TikTok. Slowly but surely we're working on it. We'll get there. But those are the places that you can usually find me or at a local show. I may even be at the ball card show table. If you catch me at an E-Skate or a Xenia, there's a chance that I'll be there at some point in time in the show. So you can go check me out there. And then if people wanna buy cards from you, what's outside of a show, what's the best way for them to buy cards from you? Because I know you have a lot of really cool stuff that people might be interested in. Right, so I have some of my inventory on eBay. I don't have all of it. So I do have a, what I call a shareable sheet. So I have my own sheet that I use on Google Sheets for my own bookkeeping, but I have a public one. It usually just takes me a couple minutes to update it really quickly. And it will have what I'm asking for a card. It will show you when I last priced it. It's all sorted alphabetically. I have it where you can categorize it by sport if you're looking for something specific. So if you're ever looking for that, you can always reach out on Instagram, preferably. It's again, it's Triple Crown. Be happy to share that link, or you can check out my eBay store. It's Triple Crown for a sampling of what I have to offer inventory-wise. And if any of you watching are big Barry Sanders fans, he has one of the most badass Barry Sanders cards that you're ever gonna see from the 90s that if you're lucky, you might be able to pry out of his hands. It'll be easy. JT, thank you again so much for being with us. We appreciate it. You guys, make sure you go follow him on every platform he just mentioned. Go check out his content. If you like our stuff, I think you'll really enjoy his too. Make sure you go check it out. Thanks again, JT. Thanks, Gary. That was awesome. I really appreciate JT coming and hanging out with me for a little while, kind of filling Jason's shoes somewhat and diving into a little bit different perspective on things. If you haven't yet, go and follow him on his socials. He's already got a really nice YouTube following. Dwarfs are YouTube following, to be perfectly frank. But go give him a follow on TikTok. Give him a follow on IG. If you see him at a show, go up and say hi. Really great dude has some really awesome cards and a really great mind for the business of the hobby. And hopefully you got to see some of that in action there. And there's some things you took away from that conversation that you can apply as a dealer or a hobbyist yourself. Before I go today, just a few reminders. First, if you're watching this on Friday the 19th, tomorrow I will be at Eastgate down in Cincinnati. And then it's Christmas. It will be the weekend after Christmas. Two days after Christmas, we'll be at Chillicothe at the Southern Ohio Sports Card Spectacular. Then the first weekend of January is Xenia. The second weekend of January, I don't know off the top of my head, but then we'll be at Eastgate again. And then it's time for the crazy end of the month run where we have the big greenie show at the Ohio State Fairgrounds at the Kasich Center, the Ohio State Sports Card Show. And then the very next day on February 1st, Super Bowl Sunday, Grove City Card Fest. Be there or be square. All great shows. Hopefully we'll see you guys there. Do not forget, Sundays at 4.30 Eastern time, Jason and I are live on Whatnot, bringing you cool stuff, having some fun. Hopefully it feels like about two more hours of the podcast every week with some cool cards that you can buy if you want to. Come and hang out. We also run a solo show or two every week just on our own. I'm doing a series of 90s and 2000s shows with just some really cool inserts from that period of time. Jason's also doing some shows, pop-up shows here and there. So make sure you bookmark those. As always, we appreciate every single one of you. Like, follow, subscribe, all the click, click, click things. Do that. It helps us out a ton. We hope to see you at a show soon. Thanks again. This has been the Ball Card Show, the sports podcast for The Sports Collector. Peace. ♪♪♪