Mike Baker's "Card Fact" Exposed: The Secret Data Big Graders WON'T Show You

I think the differentiator with what we're doing is we're adding greater notes or what we call a heat map. The transparency that you're having, why hasn't that been done? And am I just crazy to think that should be the standard? My idea of what's on the card might be a little different than what you have. Bridging that all together, especially at a PSA level, would be interesting. Welcome to the trading cards and collectibles podcast on the Radcast Network. From chasing grails to calling bluffs and going inside the hobby, are you ready to collect? Let's get at it. Here is your host, Ryan Alford. What's up, guys? Welcome to Trading Cards and Collectibles here on the Rad Cast Network. Hey, I got friends in cool places in the hobby, and I consider this guy a friend. I got to know him, he hadn't. I even known him long. But I just like him because I like disruptors and I like people that have momentum combined with credibility, combined with differentiation. And that's what we're going to talk about today. He is NBA. We'll tell you what that means. It's Mike Baker. What's up, Mike? How's it going? Thanks for having me, Ryan. Hey, man, it's going great. And I couldn't be better. We're in the new studio getting things set up. This the next time I have you on because I'm going to force you to be a semi regular or take a nice steak dinner here in G Vegas, but, you know, we're decorating the new studio. But I could talk to Mike Baker, you know, the pioneer of grading. I mean, I mean, that's you. You could probably be that, right? I mean, isn't that kind of what you are? It's kind of crazy sometimes, especially going to the shows now and seeing how everything's grown and everything's so tech and it's amazing. It's. It's kind of cool. I look back at the last 34 years. It's hard to. Hard to quantify that. Used to. Used to be the young guy walking around and seeing the old guys doing it, and now I'm kind of. It's reversed, so. So Mike Baker authenticated. I mean, that just sounds official, man. I mean, you know, you've all growns up, you know, like, you got the big name and you're the first employee and director of grading at PSA from 91 to 01. I got my, my numbers right. Yep. What got you into grading to begin with? I was working with the Coin Division, PSA Assistor Co. PCGS and saw how much the graders were making in the coin department. And it was insane. You know, back in 1989, 1990, it was, you know, they were doing crazy money. But I saw that as an opportunity and saw where the money. I just followed the money, basically. I love sports cards. Always have, you know, like the profile of playing with it when you're a kid and then you kind of forget about it when you're a teenager and go off to college. And, you know, I reconnected with that because of the environment I was in. So it kind of what's tiny is what it really got me into it. And then I kind of focused on trying to identify counterfeits and alterations and kind of made that kind of my, my lane or try to make it as, as important of my lane as possible. Back then we didn't have a half point system tied to the grading system as, as it was, you know, kind of born. So there's a lot of evolution at the beginning and no one wanted it. So there was very little support from the dealers. It's like, who's this kid? And this company coming in and telling me, you know, what I should adhere to? And, you know, it was like the hobby's first kind of quasi regulation and to help, you know, intermediate the buyer and seller to ensure that the, the product was what you're supposed to get. So right place, right time, basically, that's really what. Hey, guys, the NBA playoffs are where you really start to lock in rotations, tighten up, stars are playing big minutes and you know exactly who the ball's going to. That's why I've been on underdog during these games. It's simple. 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When you play your first $5, that's promo code collector. Underdog make picks win money must be 18 +, 19 in Alabama, Nebraska, 19 in Colorado for some games, 21 in Arizona, Massachusetts and Virginia and present in a state where underdog fantasy operates. Terms apply. Concerned with your play? Call 1-800-MY-RESET or 1-800-GAMBLER or visit www.ncpgambling.org Arizona 1-800-Next Step 1-800-639-8783 or text next step to 533-42-NEW YORK. Call the 24.7Hope line at 1-877-8 Hope, New York. That's hop e ny or text h o p e n y 467369 got me into it. I think we need to, you know, pioneers cool and all, but maybe Mike Baker, Godfather of grading. I mean, the adjectives, all that, whatever. There's an old saying, if you worry about who gets the credit, nothing ever gets done. So I'm just trying to get things done. You know, I know I like, I like giving my guests pet names or something. And I think I just came up with one the the OG Godfather of grading, Mike Baker. All right, I might have to redo that intro for you. What was that like? I mean, talk to me about PSA then and now. Like, I know you haven't been there in a while, but it's different. Like, talk to me. Yeah, well, I mean, like in the early days it was, it was, you know, it was a private company. So they're like the entrepreneurial spirit and the culture, especially coming from what had already been born in 1986 with the coin division. And the coin division kind of disrupted and changed the entire coin industry. And so it was just basically mirroring what I'd already experienced the past couple of years with the coins now transferring to cards. And I saw the potential kind of the established growing order. But in coins they had dealer support. And so it was and everything was submitted through dealers. And so it was a big network that was already tied together and it kind of flip flopped for cards because we had to attack collectors and attract and educate them about why it was important to that what they were buying was signed off by, you know, a third party. And as collector interest grew and more education awareness gap narrowed, that's when the dealer started Coming on board. So there was a number of years where I would go to shows and talk to very little people. You'd have to kind of like force yourself on people to kind of, you know, let them know what you were doing and how you were doing it. And everyone considers, you know, their cars, their babies. So a part of, a big part of it was establishing trust that we were, I was in particular a good babysitter and a good steward of, you know, managing your cards and whatnot. So because a lot of the things in the early days were if I send the card through the mail, how do I know I'm going to get the same card back? And how do I know it's not get damaged? How do I know it's not going to get switched? And all these fears and understandable actually, because it was brand new and disruptive. So. But you keep going to shows, you keep telling the story, you keep shaking hands, kissing babies and sometimes you get lucky and you break through and that's what inevitably happened. And to see PSA now, it's, it's in. It's insane. I mean, I was, I thought we were doing crazy numbers when we were doing 10, 15,000 cards in the early 90s a month. And now to see, you know, PSA doing over a million and a half cards a month on average is just mind boggling. It's crazy. The volume. I mean, I watched, you know, seeing the gym rate or whatever that keeps track of like different things. I'm sure PSA does too and releases it, but the volume of cars getting graded every month, it's just insane. And it's, it's fascinating thinking about you being there and watching it and then, you know, how our perspective kind of changes when you know, you're there and you're like, wow, this probably. Can we get any bigger? Like, and then now, you know, doing your own thing, but watching the whole thing unfold. What's the good and bad and the ugly of it all though? Well, the, the good is that, you know, having been the first to establish a lot of the protocols and kind of the heartbeat of the grading room there, a lot of the guys that I handpicked and trained are still there, still leading it. So like kind of my, the business DNA, so to speak, is still my, the legacy is still there. So I feel like I'm still a big part of what they've been able to do because of the foundation that was built originally. And to see a lot of the guys in the leadership, senior leadership, that are still There, you know, guiding the ship. And they've done, imagine a million and a half cards a month on average is no joke. You know, that's another level of craziness. So if there's a bad part, I would say it's just, you know, ensuring that you try to adhere to all the consistencies, whatever size you are, you know, making sure that you're, you're providing transparency, you're, you know, you're providing decent turn times. And it's challenging when you're doing that kind of volume and trying to keep up the consistencies. And everyone has a platform now. You know, years ago there wasn't, you know, radio podcast everywhere and, you know, all these, you know, platforms to kind of judge what you're doing on a, on an hourly or daily basis, you know, so, you know, everyone's holding their feet to the fire in a big way. And so there's a lot of, a lot of pressure to, you know, stay in your lane, do the right thing, and hopefully it all works out for the best. Yeah, yeah, that's the truth. And I mean, when the volume goes up, like you, you mentioned keeping that standard and everybody adhering to it, it's, it's hard. That's a hard thing to do. I mean, is it do. When you look at what they've done, I mean, do you feel like they're generally keeping up with it? Yes, I think the, their, their innovation and Nat's done a great job. The grading staff's done a great job. Their support, I mean, doing that on a consistent basis and still having the market share that they have is impressive. So it has its tensile strength, you know, so it had good foundational blocks and they've kept, you know, scaling that. And I have nothing but good praise for my former company. So let's turn the page. What made you start? I mean, obviously it was a natural path for you. Maybe it was always the path. But with MBA and Mike Baker authenticated in 2020, I think that's when you started. Was that always the path in your mind when you, you know, headed out there? Did you think you were going to start your own thing? Yeah, well, no, to be honest, you know, the project kind of was born in the early 2000s and thought, hey, why don't we do like a Mike Baker line? It got shelved, it got kind of re. Taken off the shelf, so to speak, in the late, late teens, I thought we were actually going to start in 19. We had some delays and then we started in August of 2020. And then Covid hit and it was like, oh my gosh, you know, like you can't go to card shows. If it wasn't for the Dallas card show, you know, a lot of the industry would have been in probably a different space because that place was like a mini national every three months or whatever to, you know, have everyone get together and trade. And it was bustling. And you know, we call it the COVID time or whatever because the market was super hot at that point too. So we had a little bit of a pop at that point. But being able to kind of continue the momentum and still going to more shows and trying to, you know, tell everybody that this is what we're doing, this is what we're providing. Because everyone already had their card graded. So like what, why do you need to go and send it off or get a sticker on it to, you know, blah, blah, blah. And time after time you get this and sure enough you would try to articulate why just certain cards are better than their counterparts in the same grade. It's just how it is, you know, and those cards, even raw over the years have always sold a little bit better than their counterpart. So what we've done is basically platform those special cards and bring attention to them and celebrate them. And with that the premiums have grown and everyone now after five years is getting to the point where when you get a silver or gold or a black, you know what you're getting. And it's a special card. And that's why people are willing to step up a little bit more than their non stickered product. Mike, what he does. And he just said it. So you've got, if you have a car PSA graded, is it just PSA that you do? I mean, are you doing any, any, anything? We do sgc, Beckett, cgc and we just started with tag as well. Yeah. So any, any graded card that's worth that, the brand is reputable. It sounds like. Yeah, Mike will add a layer on top of that with his sort of tiered certification stickers. Gold, silver and black. Because not all eights are the same, not all nines are the same, not all tens, etc. Am I phrasing that right, Mike? Exactly. And so because, and then it adds a tier because they're not all equal. And it also. So it adds a differentiation between those numbers and adds a higher value potentially because. Or most certainly should because it's. If it's. Especially if it's in that diamond, black, gold, diamond. I mean you can't, it's all, all the high end stuff in one word, a parallel or whatever you want to call it. Black, gold, diamond. So basically with, with PSA in particular because it doesn't have a 9.5 and it doesn't have a pristine or black label. So it really. And they're obviously the, you know, the market share leader. So we see an inordinate amount of PSA cars relative to their other grading services. But you know, between a 9.0 and a 9.9 there's absolutely some separation. And the differentiator, a silver represents a silver eye or a superior eye pill within the grade. So it's just a better looking card than its normal average 9. And then for a 9.5 or higher would be a gold. And you know there's absolutely 9.5 mint plus cards within a PSA 9. And then for the tens you can get a gold which would be a pristine and then a black which is just a flawless card, you know and those, those blacks don't come around very often. It's definitely less than 1%. Gold's been doing very well. Everyone wants gold. And I think the silver label was misunderstood at the beginning and now it's grabbed some more operational awareness in terms of, you know, what this really means. And it absolutely is a better looking card, a superior IPL characteristics of that card in comparison to their counterparts. So it's all those things have been moving really well especially since I met you at the national and we kind of celebrated our five years roughly right about that time. And for whatever reason it was, it was go time and you know, NBA definitely move some, move the monitor a little bit. Move that needle. Yeah. Hey, it's just meeting me buddy, you know, me talking about it. I'm kidding. Absolutely. Definitely help. I like to take credit. I don't even earn the. No, but you've, you've earned it and that's what's great. You're doing things the right way. And so Mike, I know you're doing full now grading. How would you compare your grading versus the other guys out there and just talk a little bit about that product. Well, we started, we launched the product at the beginning of the year. Immediately there's been some great platforms. The Greg Morris cards on ebay, Brian Drent from Mile High cards have been like the first kind of day one supporters of that product recently. Just recently Heritage opened up. We have product on Heritage in their current auction at TCG Entertainment. Not sports going right now. We're talking with golden tomorrow to get the product. You know on onboarded there as well. So in nine months, we were also listed on VCP Vintage, Card Pricer and Card Ladder. So in the last nine, 10 months, we've really moved the needle in that category. I think the differentiator with what we're doing is we're adding grader notes or what we call a heat map. So when a card gets graded, I highlight the areas of concern, you get the card back, you can go look at the report card, basically, and it'll be highlighted upper right. You can put the little magnifying lens over that area and kind of identify what kind of kept the car from going into a higher grade. We're also gated right now by. By dealers, basically. We have a couple of dealers. Greg Morris soon will be onboarded to take submissions from the public. We're doing, you know, more business to. Business is where we're sitting currently. Ideally, we'll get to a point where we scale and we'll be open to the public. That will happen in the future. But right now we're trying to do it right, not take on more than we can chew and we can walk and chew bubblegum at the same type. Type thing, but we want to, you know, I don't want to be an Internet meme about seeing we can, you know, bring it on and we get busting at the seams or whatever, and we become part of the problem, you know, so slow and steady is kind of the role right now. Here's what I love. This was my biggest, you know, coming back into it, into the hobby and getting, you know, into the business. And it's not different than when I was younger, but it's just. I'm more aware now and keen the, you know, psa. And I look, I like Nat, I like. I have no problem with psa. I love psa. But the fact that you don't know why you got a certain grade never made sense to me. And that's what I love about what you do. Like you said, doing the whole heat map, you get to understand, you get educated on what the flaws were, what, what drove the grading. If you don't become the market leader in the next 10 years, I'll be surprised. I mean, I'm just. I know that sounds probably impossible to you, but what you're doing, though, the transparency that you're having, why hasn't that been done? And am I just crazy to think that should be the standard? Well, it's cost inefficiency, you know, I mean, have. You want to have. You want to make sure that the consistency in terms of what's being called out is. Is my idea of what's on the card might be a little different than what you have. So kind of bringing bridging that all together, especially at a PSA level would be interesting. I mean it can be done. They do offer it for a fee and I understand why you have to charge for that because it slows the process down and at that level that it's a machine and anything that goes into that process is going to add time. I'm doing it. And part of kind of the ethos of why we did it was to ensure the transparency because it's appreciated. Number one, two, it'll save more time with customer service answering those questions. I would rather have it be on doing more business than talking about business has already been done. So if we can narrow that gap, make you more educated about how things are graded, what's going on, that's going to make you a more educated buyer. You're going to spend more money, probably do a little bit more business with us in the day. So that's, that's kind of the, the thought hard facts. Yeah. Card facts. Yeah, Card facts report transparency. And I had a color blast. Caleb Williams, that Mike was so gracious to let me experience that process. We'll have those screens up, we'll have images on the site showing you what that card facts looks like. I did get a silver diamond 9.5. So I was. We had a. I knew it had a little bit of softness on one of the corners. So Mike did me right, because he was. He does what he does. He's legitimate, he's fair. But it was, it, it was a great experience. I just loved being able to see, you know, like the on screen, the serial number. It just felt very professional. Yeah. What's tied to it too is the population report too. So once you enter your cert number, you scroll down a little bit and you can see the pop data for that too. Mobile or. Or PC or whatever. But yeah. And the silver, the silver diamond superior eye pill sticker on that card. So your card was mint plus 9.5 had a little touch, but yet every other attribute of the card was nails. So if it wasn't for that little touch, you're talking 10 or better. Basically. Yeah. So with that silver diamond represents on our product is that. That is. Absolutely. Has superior eye appeal characteristics within that grade for that 9.5. Yeah. And it may or may not be for sale soon. So I don't know. I Might keep it just for memo's sake. What's happening now, man? I mean I heard you snuck it in there a little bit. Golden meeting with golden. But like where, where are we headed with everything? I think right now we're doing kind of an Admin 2.0 to get ready for scaling. Actually we've been working on that for a little bit, tightening up our systems type. You know, everything gets image front and back, both for the diamond. You know, third party cards that get, get a sticker and for every card that comes in, it's shot raw, it's shot post, it gets, it's shot with these stickers. So every, there's a big provenance of, of cards. One of the things we're kind of doing uniquely too is any crossover that comes, we're taking the images, the front and back of that third party grade service and tying it to the cert number. So let's say you, that card that you had came from a previous third party service. It would show that image once you did the cert check online. So there'll be a nice provenance or legacy attachment so that you can see that hey, I had it in a PSA SGC holder. I wanted the heat map, I wanted the MBA experience, whatever it may be. You can see what you had it in before cracked out in the NBA holder. So it's all nice and packaged. So I think that's kind of another differentiator first to market type deal too. That's cool. Let me make sure, yeah, let me make sure I understand that and our listeners understand that. So yeah, if I send you, I'm just going to stick with the PSA lines instead of the leader. I send you a PSA 8 card and I, and I want Mike Bakers and his team to grade it. You're going to show. Okay, you take pictures so that when I go to my card facts, I see that exactly as it was sent to you, PSA slabbed. And then wherever you end up grading, you see the, the after and in your case that's correct. Okay. And you'll have to go up or down, right? Yeah, I think it's kind of the best of both worlds too. I mean it, it, it gives us, you know, people are, you know, like how are they grading all these great cards and you know, whatever the, the, the thought processes on the Internet and whatnot. We're trying to, you know, hey, you know, go, go do a cert lookup and you'll be able to see that card went to this previous folder so, you know, trying to, you know, and obviously that's not for every card. It's for crossovers and whatnot. But figured when. When we can do it, we will do it. To add that another layer of transparency to what we're doing, how we're doing it. Well, that's pretty cool, because then you can say, you know, my card graded, okay, this card is an 8 PSA, an 8.5, Mike Baker, whatever. Or, yeah, you could. You kind of, like, you said that provenance of having multiple grades and double. I mean, multiple standards. Yeah, it's. It's tying it to what we do with the diamond certification currently. Because if you submit a PSA card and it's a 9 and I gold it, it's. We're saying it's 9.5. Yeah. You know, and if it's a 10 and I gold it, we're saying it's pristine. So that gives you the awareness that if that card were to come in, it's not guaranteed, obviously, until it goes through its process going into that level, but it's a likelihood that that card will transfer into that next grade. So it's kind of the building blocks. Not today, not tomorrow, but as our awareness gap narrows, more people will understand that when you have a PSA 10, you know, whatever, and it's got a gold on it, that has an opportunity to go pristine. NBA. Yeah. That's cool. Talking with Mike Baker. He is the godfather of grading, because I call him that. He's not calling himself that, but I'm gonna call him that. You can't nickname yourself, that's for sure. But I. I like. I know you're not that old either. You're probably like, I'm not old enough to be a godfather, but. Yeah, you are. You know, you got the glasses. You know, you can rock it. There we go. Is what cards are we grading, man? I want to be specific for everybody listening as you guys flip on more of the, you know, you know, retail or send in stuff, or it gets more access. You start growing, doing new, old, all sports, Pokemon. Like, what are we grading? We're. We're doing it all, actually. Granted having. Being gated right now, it's more selective in terms of kind of what we get, who we're dealing with, and the type of clientele those guys are dealing with. Yep. So. But we just got a number of Pokemon cards in. I went to my first Magicon in Atlanta a few weeks ago. That's another thing. Our show schedule since the national has been a full court press I'm literally going anywhere and everywhere. We're going to be on site grading in Toronto in two weeks. So that'll be our first foray on site. It'll be interesting. Fingers crossed. Nothing breaks. But yeah, it's. But to your point about cars, primarily right now it's been vintage. And I say vintage, I'm talking like 50s and 60s type thing. But, you know, vintage technically is 80s now and 70s, so we get a lot of that. Don't say that. But yeah, but yeah, I know that that's where you're like, vintage. What are you talking about? But that seems to be our mainstay and our sales data actually from VCP has been pretty impressive. We're, we're running, you know, neck and neck a little bit better than SGC in a lot of areas and a little under. I'd say we're like SGC plus in certain areas in PSA light. But being at the time that we've been on the market less than a year, it's been pretty impressive to see those numbers and the support. And I think there's just kind of a little bit of a groundswell with the network and the outreach that we've done where people are kind of pulling for us. You know, I saw an episode on Sportscar dad with Justin and Rick Probstein yesterday, and he said in the deal, like, people are pulling for him. You know, so I reached out to him and I said, I'm pulling for you too. And I kind of feel that same way. There's a lot of, you know, street kind of cred of people that are, like, wanting to see something different. And the pie is so big now that even if we got, you know, 10, 15,000 cards a month, it's not going to put a dent in anyone else's submission run. So, you know, I think that that's. And there's a lot of opportunity with that, and I'm confident with the experience that we have with my partners and team, that our innovations are, are gonna definitely change and be disruptive in the coming, coming weeks and months. I know you're fond of psa. There's nothing, no one's trying to get dirt thrown around here. But, like, yeah, it does bring up the competition thing with okay, sgc. You know, like, everyone said this was gonna. Everyone goes, well, they're gonna buy SGC and they're gonna. You're gonna watch them fall fast and. Yeah, sorry, that's what's happened. So, like, they bought their, you know, closest competitor, I guess I Don't know. I mean, you could argue that. And then they've just sort of eaten them and the numbers are getting eaten as well. So, I mean, what's your thoughts on that? Well, you know, like you said, you follow the gym rate numbers. I mean, it's the data. You just follow the data. You know, I mean, ultimately there's a lot of water cooler talk about what's going to happen. And a lot of people have been invested in SGC for, you know, for decades. And those guys are great. Know them well. I think they do a great job. I can see why PSA bought them definitely for their vintage expertise for sure. But I think that when the market starts to determine its own perception of things, sometimes that perception can be the reality or start to be become that part of reality. And you know, Peter stepping down prior to the national. I know. Added a log to that fire, you know, and so on and so forth. I don't know what the plans are. I know I've heard the same rumors that I'm sure everybody else has heard. But, you know, ultimately, whatever happens is going to happen. And I can just tell you from an MBA perspective, we're, we're there to, you know, pick up whatever slack is, you know, or offer another option to customers and whatnot. So that's, that's kind of our focus. So, yeah, I mean, I'm sad for the kind of SGC crowd, but I'm happy for the opportunity that it opens up for my friend Mike Baker, because I do think it is opportunity for you even more. I mean, not that there's not plenty to go around. Like we don't have to be. There's a lot. Collaboration is, would go a long way in this industry, you know, and there's enough to go around and Yep, nobody's taking PSA's lunch tomorrow. And they're a great company. Yeah. But at the same time, hey, opportunity knocks sometimes. Well, an opportunity knocks also with. For graders as well, because as we scale the best of the best, I will be personally targeting, you know, I want to what makes a good grader? Like, that'd be interesting. That's. Tell me what makes a good grader. You know, patience and temperance, you know, not thinking that you know everything because there's always somebody out there that knows probably a little bit more than you. Um, I've been on podcasts in the past where people have asked my experience in certain areas and I'm like, hey, I rely on some of great collaborate collaborators, partners, consultants that help me, you know, with making sure I'm staying at the forefront of what's going on, and I welcome that. So, you know, you got to love your job too, because it's monotonous. Yeah, I'll bring, you know, I've worked with people in the past and said, hey, you know, sit down here and look at a thousand cards in an eight hour day and see if you can push, you know. And so most people, their eyes are getting tired, the fatigue, you know, it's mental fatigue too, because you're, you're. And not everything's a 10. If that was easy, you can just be a button pusher and, you know, who cares? But when you're, when you're running the gamut from vintage to, you know, to modern shiny cards, all that stuff and trying to adhere to a standard and, you know, the calculations are, are big, you know, which is why I see how AI can definitely be a thing coming in the not too distant future. I know for some it's already here. I haven't seen anything yet that can pick off alterations and, you know, be consistent. And ultimately AI is taught by humans. So as good as the AI is, has to come from the human component to make that AI what it is in terms of its base foundation. So would you ever be willing to do an episode with us and grade a card on like live like with a camera? Oh, absolutely. Yeah, I think we should do that on the next get together, like have the camera and then everybody watch the process. I think that would be fascinating. And you kind of talk through like what you're doing, what you're seeing. Back In, I think 2000, ESPN came in with Lisa Salters and the Tiger woods card was a big thing at that time. And the ESPN crew came in at psa. They did the whole spiel and it went to the actual national, I think it was in Cleveland, where the card ended up selling with the father and son, the whole bit, it was pretty cool. But they documented it, the whole thing. I think it would be absolutely. Be open to that. Show you some of the new tech things that we use and how it's integrated into our software and you know, it's a, it's a good deal. I'll send you that Honus Wagner I have in the safe that nobody knows about. Sure. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I love it. I want to see it. I printed it in my backyard. No, I'm kidding. I'll. We'll let you choose what you feel like would be good fodder for that. We'll do that next Time, I think that'd be fascinating. Yeah, yeah, absolutely. Yeah. So what, what shows are coming up, Mike? Anything else like of note that people should be aware of where you'll be? Yeah, basically our Instagram channel at NBA Diamonds has the show schedule that we're pretty active socially with that. Going to Miami to do a private collection next week for four days. I'm headed to Toronto on site November 6th through the 9th. Thereafter going to Chicago Sports Spectacular in November, closing out with San Antonio Collecticon and the Philadelphia show in December. And then from there it's go time. I'm booked. We're booked 13 shows for the first half of the year. So it's, it's aggressive. But right now the momentum's there and we need to seize it and I want to narrow that awareness gap as much as possible to tell people what we're doing and how we're it. Hey, and somewhere in there, stop through old G Vegas and there we go. And coming into this territory. South Carolina. Yeah, exactly. Love it. Chicago, La G Vegas. We're getting them all in. Mike, give everybody the website details, social media, any of the handles, things like that. Yeah, website's www.NBA diamond and Instagram is at NBA Diamonds plural on Instagram. So very active on Instagram. We have banners, we have specials, we do a lot of promos. Our digital review service is, you know, really popular. You can submit a previously graded card. It can help determine whether or not it's worth sending in. If it is, it's MBA candidate. If it doesn't get it, it'll. I'll tell you greater notes why. Top to bottom, centering left to right, upper left corner tip. Whatever it may be that that money that you spend to get that result, then credits to your account. So when you do get a sticker, that money will go to the sticker. So it's kind of a no brainer to give it a shot. It's easy use. It's 10 bucks in the low tier to get the information you need. It's really popular. I mean we started it last November and since the national in particular, it's probably grown tenfold. That's awesome, man. That's a great service to have and just to not waste, you know, at least as close as you can with not knowing where what you're holding without having to send it down or do anything. Yeah. Especially as valuable as cards are now and the kind of friction that you know, everyone has wanting to or having to send it off and then having to get a no. So really it, it helps vet to kind of filter out what, what not to send. Yeah, no brainer. Good for you, Good for them. Yeah. Love it, man. Really love what you're doing. And I, I've been rooting for you, so I'm going to keep rooting. I appreciate that. That's awesome. You have the, that's one thing great about the industry and hobby. There's some great people out there. Yeah. You know, well, you're one of them. And I appreciate your brother for coming on. Ditto. Appreciate it, Ryan. Hey guys, you want to find us Collectibles Show? We'll have links to Mike's site, their social media and everything they're doing. And we'll have images up from the experience I had with my card, which was first class, just like NBA. We appreciate you. You can find me at Ryan Alford on all the social media platforms. Drop me a line, tell me what you're enjoying, what you want to hear, who you want to see other than Mike Baker, and we'll make it happen. We'll see you next time. I'm trading cards and collectibles. Collectibles show is where you'll find all of the channels and learn more about what we're doing. And ultimately, hey, we want to hear from you. You do case hits at Collectibles Show. I want you to send in your favorite pulls of the week. And here's the difference. This isn't about just value. Hey, we want to see some ten thousand dollar hits. Had a couple of those myself a few months back. But it's not just about the value. It's about what you're collecting, what means something to you. Share a story, share a video of you holding up the card that you hit last week that was your favorite player and you nailed it. So case hits, Collectibles show, send in those videos. I want to know the stories. We're going to bring them to life here on the show. We're going to do a segment each week once we get rolling and get some videos in where we share that on the show with us. We want to feature you on Collectibles Show. Thanks for tuning in to the show. Don't forget to follow us on your favorite podcast platform and don't miss the full video version on YouTube. You can find us at www.collectibles.show or follow Ryan on Instagram at ryanolford. Now get out there and collect yours.