Passion to Profession: From College Football Cards to Working at Card Collector 2 with Gabe (@gabeycardstacks)

Foreign. What's going on, everybody? Welcome back to Passion to Profession, brought to you by my good friends at ebay here on the Stacking Slabs Network. It is that time of the week where we dig into the entrepreneurial and operational journey of people building cool stuff in the hobby. Today I am excited to be joined by my man Gabe at Gabycard Stacks, new member of the Card Collector 2 team. Gabe and I got a chance to chat in person a month or so ago at the Columbus Card Fest. He is a passionate savant around college football cards. I've appreciated his content from afar. I wanted to talk to him about the story of how he landed a job not only in the hobby, but working for one of the biggest brands in the space. I think you're going to enjoy this conversation. You want to show your support for Stacking Slabs? Hit the follow button, tell a damn friend. Run on over to the Patreon Group, shout out ebay for putting on these conversations. I love doing Passionate Profession each and every week. I hope you enjoy these conversations too. But for now we got Gabe, Gaby Card Stacks coming at you. We are back. Passion of Profession brought to you by my good friends at ebay. Excited for this conversation. It's not often I get a chance to meet in person with the guest before we record one of these. And had the opportunity to meet today's guests in Columbus during Card Collector 2's clothes Columbus Card Fest, which was awesome. There's been a lot of content out from the Stacking Slabs Network. I am joined by one of the newest team members of the Card Collector 2 team. Gabe goes by Gaby Card Stack on all social media. He has been putting out awesome college football content and that he's parlayed that into a career in sports cards. So this is all fresh. There's a lot going on. We're recording this before the national after Fanatics Fest. We're getting the wheels spinning, but without further ado. Gabe, welcome. How are you, man? Yu-Gi-Oh no, thank you for having me. It was great to get connected with you at Columbus Card Fest and Yu-Gi-Oh just been. Been quite a whirlwind. Just, you know, moving states. I'm sure we'll get to all of this, but moving states to, to be here and Yu-Gi-Oh I go. Go through all the chaos of all this. You know, the peak of the card market and all the shows that are happening. So excited to be here, Chad, and discuss everything. Let's start with maybe before we get into the work and the content and college football, maybe just cards and Your, your history with cards, like what were you have cards always been a part of your life? Like what were you doing with cards before you started sharing online? Yu-Gi-Oh so I'd say they were always kind of a part of it. Started very early in Pokemon. I'm the youngest in my family on both sides, so just kind of got, you know, in intertwined with the Pokemon game. You know, started getting into sports cards actually did Yu-Gi-Oh Gi oh as a kid as well. Kind of Tribute that. I would say like I think tops 2007 was probably the last like set that I vividly remember seeing. Probably up until college. I went to the University of Arizona and was friends with a couple of members on the team and I remember like seeing them sign Panini Contenders and all their stickers and all of that. So I had Beckett up a couple of autos. Wasn't like deep in the hobby. I was like, oh, I see, you know, Scooby wright and Paul McGlore were signing and you know, they were promoting it on their Facebook so Beckett up some singles on ebay. And then really wasn't until 2020 where I, I really got back in Phoenix is, is a great market for cards there. Shows every single week. So that really helped just kind of, you know, escalate, you know, the interest and growth in the hobby for me personally. And Yu-Gi-Oh just kind of not looked back ever since. It's really been something that I think about every single day now and you know, has, has led to a full time career in cards. Well, I want to spend a lot of time talking about college football cards, which is your forte. And I've even heard Ryan refer to you as the Mel Kuiper of college cards. So that is, that is awesome. But let's learn a little bit about kind of what you were doing before you joined the Card Collector 2 team. I think so many people listening want to work in cards, but feel like it's impossible and think that there's some like linear career path into cards when there's not. But maybe kind of share your story of, of what you're up to. Yu-Gi-Oh Yu-Gi-Oh So really I think, you know, I was pretty casual I think in the hobby at the beginning in the first year, but it really was Bowman University 2021, which really, I think that's, that's kind of the Genesis of this all. Where I saw the product and I just, I love college football. I just grew up with college football my whole life. My dad had season tickets to Arizona State, so we would go every single week. We would Tailgate So just something that we just always, you know, did together and as a family. So that's really just kind of where the love from for college football came from compared to I guess NFL, but has always been a huge part of our life and just watching it. So when that came out it was finally something where I was like, oh, like this is something that is just cool to me. Wasn't Zebra into the like modern Prizm stuff. I love the old Topps Chrome stuff. Picking up stuff kind of from the gap when I left in 2007 to like the 2015 where it's like hey, the Chris Johnson's and you know, all of those Topps of guys, you know, being able to go back and collect those in their Topps Chrome form. So until then that was like, you know, the big piece for me was, was 2021 Bowman University and just seeing that you're able to one collect college guys, which Arizona didn't have any guys in that product. But I still thought that was cool. It was just something new as a first year of this product and just kind of quickly saw the prospecting side of things and you know, potential for the NFL draft I thought was huge. Where Bryce Young and C.J. stroud were, you know, going to be two big names in the following year's draft. So Yu-Gi-Oh just kind of really started to dive in with that and I think, you know, as nil and you know, all of this plays into the college football world. The product as it continues to grow as well has only become more popular for Bowman University and college cards in general. You're seeing a lot more brands come in. So it's been awesome for, for the college market to see the growth and really from the beginning I've just been buying and selling and eventually, you know, just started posting about it on social media here and there. Started kind of building a small following, started making YouTube videos and those seem to do well. That was mostly, you know, I would say like flipping from card shows like hey, I spent, you know, $80 in the value box. And I think that's how a good portion of my audience came to be. And then I think, you know, probably Bowman 2023 was kind of the big instrumental piece to all of this where just a massive checklist, one of the best checklists in Bowman University has so many big names, so many superstars that I think that's when the product really started becoming mainstream and chasing. I think Shedeur and Travis definitely played a big role in that. But Yu-Gi-Oh just since from then I decided, you know, I'm going all, all in on college football. And, you know, here we are now at Card Collector 2 Studio. So I love this because I think oftentimes when there seems to be a collecting lane that is scarce, people are afraid to jump in, and people are afraid to take initiative because there's a connection and not only take. Start buying the cards, but then creating content around it. I guess when you started in this space, and I've always viewed collegiate collecting collectors as some of the most passionate collectors in the space, but there's really not much infrastructure to support them. They're very isolated. You'll have conversations. They're looking for more people to do what they're doing or to connect with other team collectors who are collecting in a similar way. Like, for you, did you even think about the fact that there wasn't much activity in this space? Were you just drawn to the fact that, like, you love college football and so that it makes sense for you to be the one to start creating content around this space? Like, what was your mindset when you started? Yu-Gi-Oh Yu-Gi-Oh I think it's a mix of both. I think I just love college football, and it's just something that I want to talk about. And then it was kind of like, you know, be the voice that, you know, you. You just like, I would love if we had a bunch of college football creators and just. I just love talking college football. So it's kind of like, well, I don't see anyone else doing it. I might as well be the one to. To try to do it. So, Yu-Gi-Oh it was truly kind of a mix of both, for sure. And, you know, I think just in terms of my content and just the style and just the Topps of videos, it's just always been the stuff that I like. I like going to card shows, going to value bins and showing people what I, what I got. And I like seeing other people's pickups and just their thought process of, like, oh, like, why did you buy, you know, all of these cards? You know, and. And I just like knowing, you know, their thought process, like learning just like, oh, this is a new prospect. You know, it could be Bowman baseball for all I care about. Like, oh, like, I'll keep an Yu-Gi-Oh out next time I'm at that value, Ben. And. And now it's a name to know. So I like the education piece of it as well. And then, Yu-Gi-Oh it was just kind of. You know what I think, you know, at that point, I, I feel like I had some decent momentum where I was like, Okay. I feel like I could be kind of, you know, a mascot of the college football card market, so to speak. When you think about those early days when you started creating content and then individuals in your audience started to respond and then new people came in. Like, how did you think about the content you were creating? Was it more just like, let me just turn on my camera, here's what I'm picking up. Let me do a selfie and talk about what I'm excited about, what I'm buying. Like, did you have any strategy or method to your madness or were you just creating content because you thought that there was like a complete void in the space? Yu-Gi-Oh I think it was definitely just more of the void. And it was just again, I, I just feel like, you know, there wasn't anybody out there talking about college cards and I'm just, again, I like showing, you know, what am I picking up and why? What are other people picking up and why? So it's like, hey, you know, I'm going to buy, you know, all of the, you know, low end Travis Hunter and Shader Sanders and, and see if that's gradable or whatever the case may be. And this is my approach. You know, I was, I feel like I was pretty big on Travis Hunter. I was like, he's kind of like the Shohei Otani of college football going both ways. He was, you know, Colorado is going to be on ESPN every single week that season where it's just, I just feel like it made sense. And so that was, I think, a big boost as well for, for the brand. Just that season going really in. At that point, probably the biggest prospect that I had, I had invested in was Travis Hunter. Just, I figured he was going to be on TV a lot. I saw what they did in year one again, kind of the show, hey, just going to be on ESPN making top 10 plays all season. So just like those Topps of, I guess, strategies or thought process where it's like, all right, this is my mail that I Beckett up and you know, I'd say 90% of all my pickups are always, you know, a college product. So from there, Yu-Gi-Oh I think it just became a place where people who enjoy college football can, you know, express their thoughts in the comments or kind of learn something. So again, I'm just very big on, you know, information sharing, knowledge sharing and just providing value to people and like, oh, I didn't know, you know, this prospect could be a sneaky $5 auto. And so just anything like that that I can create, I'M always for how important has that the messaging been in terms of trying to get a point across about a specific player or card to your audience? Like you just mentioned Hunter and Ohtani and that draws a connection where no matter if the audience has seen the player or not, like you throw out a name like Ohtani, it's going to get their attention. I think I remember you maybe talking about Lenore Sellers and like there was a conversation, the debate was like, is, is Sellers like more like what Anthony Richardson's going to be or is. Or does he have more potential? And I think in college sports, like comparison is something that drives like the media because we're always looking for potential and whether they're drafted, what we can expect during the year. And now like with your content, this is kind of trickling down into cards, which I think is cool. But it's. Do you think about those comparisons a lot in communicating those comparisons to try to convey your point or your opinion or your position about specific players when you're building content? Yu-Gi-Oh I think that's what kind of helps me gain comfort as well. Like I'm not just like spewing just, you know, nonsense. It kind of keeps me grounded and, and have that calm per se for. From a player, a team or like, hey, like this guy's just as productive at half the price, you know, of. Of X player. So I think that always helps for sure. And just having that, that relativity to always compare, you know. And I think if you are in the college prospecting, you know, game, you can kind of start to see trends where it's like, you know, I feel like a lot of like first round potential wide receivers are in that like $20 to $30 base auto range. And it's like, well, you know, I'm Zebra high on Reed Harris and that's a $9 auto or so, you know, so it's like I'm going to start buying those up. So I think having those Topps of comparisons again, like just along the checklist of college players and just, Yu-Gi-Oh comparing to former teammates or someone within the conference, I think that always gives me, you know, again, just the rationale in the background to, you know, feel comfortable, you know, attaching my name to being like, Yu-Gi-Oh like Reed Harris is a guy that, you know, I believe in and I think could be a great play for the season. So that's always something that I think I always try to lean on as much as possible, for sure. What I love about college football and why I think it's gained a Lot of momentum college football collecting is that you're talking prospecting, essentially, but you're talking like $20 for an auto, $30 for an auto. It's, it's not like NFL where, you know, people are paying 5,000, a thousand, 2,000 for, like, a Jackson Dart when we, when we don't know, like, what his next step really is going to be in the NFL. And so, like, the risk is very low, I think, and. But it's. The upside is very, very high. There's just a lot of fun. Like, everybody on Saturday is glued to their television, even if they're primarily an NFL fan. Everyone who loves the NFL for the most part is paying attention to what's happening in college football. Like, do you think, like, the cost of entry, to participate and to have fun is maybe one of the reasons why the college football market is kind of growing year over year? Yu-Gi-Oh I do definitely think that that is a big part of it because it is such a low risk. And it's like, you know, I get a lot of comments all the time like, oh, you got me in the college football. Like, it's cool to know, like, these guys before they hit the draft. And, you know, there's, you know, I would say, you know, when a team isn't doing. An NFL team isn't doing so well and someone's like, oh, it's mock draft season, like, my team's not making the playoffs, and it's like they're getting a jump start on their prospects. And so, you know, it's cool that, that people are wanting to learn about the prospects. And Yu-Gi-Oh like you said, it is, it is very, you know, a much lower risk for sure, compared to, you know, your Jackson Dart, where it's like, Yu-Gi-Oh you're, you're kind of, you're really projecting out on, on this guy being, you know, the real deal here where, you know, Jackson Dart autos at one time in, in Bowman were, you know, ten twelve dollars, and that was pretty much the norm. No one was really talking much about him. So, Yu-Gi-Oh that's always something that I, I do enjoy as well. And I think you can always look ahead. There's all. I feel like there's so much information with college prospecting. I think of a guy like Reuben Bain two years ago, I guess, you know, he was a freshman sensation, injured his sophomore year, and then his autos were like $5 at that point. And, you know, again, kind of to the, to the comparison piece, it's like, well, if he can stay held, like $5. And this guy's still getting mocked as a first round top 10 pick despite having quote unquote down year with like calf injuries. Like I'm willing to take a chance there. And so to the low risk, you know, high upside, those autos were touching 50, $60 peak market. So you know, anything that, that you know, you can, you can relay just that type of information and provide that value to the community and the followers. I think always kind of help for sure. Ruben Bane is such a fun example. It's like this guy, no matter what has some sort of adversity against him. I'm like, did you watch this guy play college football? I, going into the draft it's like, well his arms are too short, so possibly be a good pro. And I'm like, this is, this is ludicrous. But I don't know that's, it's fun. I've learned that like being interested in kind of your content and college football content, it just, it makes me more interested in just the market in general, I guess. Like for anyone who hasn't collected in this space and is trying to understand the landscape, like you mentioned Bowman, you mentioned Panini. We just talked with Evan Parker from on it. Like, how do you assess the landscape of current offerings for people who want to collect? Like, what's your mindset? Like, what's the hierarchy? Like, how do you think about it? Yu-Gi-Oh I mean I, I love that, you know, you'll look at like a social media post and it's like top 10 wide receivers heading into 20, 26. And I would say there's a good shot that like 9 out of 10 of them have trading cards available, which is awesome because two years ago it'd be like, oh, you get like three out of 10 or four out of 10. So you know, the fact that we are able to see a lot of different products now is great. Bowman University to me is just like the flagship product. I do, I do love just, I don't know something about it. And just the Bowman first I think carries significant weight. When you go to Prizm. The interesting or just Panini in general. The interesting thing is like they've got a lot of the big names and they are exclusive. So. And I think they do a really good job at, at securing the, the top of that checklist for sure. And then love on it. And just the, you know, they've got a bunch of teams and a lot of guys who wouldn't have cards in general. And I know they're, they're going into, you know, they got volleyball and soccer and women's sports. So to be able to have all those teams available on guys who wouldn't have cards. Like Cam Cook right now is a running back in his cards. He's at TCU now. He'll be at West Virginia, but he'll be a top 10 running back, and that's his only card to have. So from a prospecting perspective, you know, it's just. It's always fun to find those Topps of nuggets from other products as well. And you get into Leaf and even Onyx. Onyx has your guy, C.J. carr in there. So it's fun to have that mix of products for sure. And it is always interesting to see. I think there's pulse as well. Who's. I don't think Trinidad Chambliss has autos, but he has base card or parallels of sorts. So, you know, just always having that mix of players and products and, you know, it's. We're getting to a point where, you know, a lot of guys have cards now, and that's just something that we didn't have, you know, two, three years ago. So there's a lot of opportunity, a lot of players to look into and learn and always deep dive in. Very interested in getting a little bit nerdy here, but just trying to figure out, like, from your lens, looking into the college football market, like, the shelf life of these cards. And for anyone who's just thinking about it, like, how do you think about the Bowman first of a player and the time to hold? Obviously there's these moments of you've got, you know, the, the season starting, you've got the playoffs starting, you got NFL draft, you've got like, they're on a team. Like, does that mean that people don't want their cards at college cards anymore? Like, I'm sure there's like, very nuanced scenarios for every situation in every card. But, like, how do you think about the kind of what goes in and what goes out in terms of, like, your collection and your inventory? Yu-Gi-Oh Yu-Gi-Oh that's a great question. And I think it's kind of evolved over the years that at the beginning I was always like, oh, I got to be out of it by the draft. And that's just. I don't know why I thought that way. But you know, how I learned that that wasn't probably the best approach was Dorian Thompson. Robinson Dinky are at a ucla. He was one of my, you know, biggest buys in that Bowman 22 product. Love the way that he played at UCLA and went pretty heavy on him and after the draft didn't really sell a whole lot. So I just started auctioning and selling fire selling, discounting. And then he went crazy in the hall of Fame game and you know, autos that I was buying for $13 wearing $120 the next day after the game. So I was okay. I think like you can hold this into the priest. Like preseason is a big thing now. Like that's still their only card. And you know, it was just again, a relatively new product at the time where I was just kind of learning myself. So over the years I've definitely become more lenient on like, hey, you know, I would love to sell by like late July with rookie mini camps and all that stuff. And it's like, well now you got, you know, all this preseason there's always somebody who, who seems to pop off. There were Carson Steele, I think he was in stage autos for Kansas City. He was doing $250. And that was, you know, a easy $1 card before then. So I'm very open to always, you know, hey, let's just wait till preseason, see what happens, see who gets buzz. And that's, you know, always I think just, you know, maybe to a fault sometimes you're like, hey, you know, I think, I think it could, it could go even higher into the preseason. So that, that I think now I'm starting to get a little bit more patient into the preseason. However, Brett, you bring up an interesting point now because now Topps is coming out, you know, with flagship football pretty early now where it's like, hey, now, now you've got the choice of like a Topps paper card or their Bowman first. And so it will be interesting to see what the new dynamic is with that. And are people going to be, you know, leaning more into that first pro paper card? Are they going to wait for Todd's chrome? How much does the Bowman first hold in its value? So I'm very interested to see how that works out. But again, you could look at a lot of different guys like Bijan Robinson. Bowman first still probably holds a pretty significant weight. And then you even get into like the C.J. stroud and, and those Topps of guys who didn't have autos, you know, that was their only tops auto. So I think, you know, they still hold a fair amount of weight, I would say. But I do think Topps now coming out with product early is going to definitely change the landscape a little bit and, and maybe have, have A different approach, but I've definitely gotten more comfortable holding into the preseason just seeing what happens. And it's not so much like a. All right, you know, here's my hard stop. I'm going to fire sale everything now. Just because it hasn't sold now, if it hasn't sold now, you know it one-of-one sell. So I'm definitely more. More willing to hold. So when Bowman you came out, it instantly made sense to me because of the Bowman first of it all, because I instantly thought about that from the perspective of Bowman baseball in the first. And Yu-Gi-Oh in baseball, they're in their professional uniforms, but there's this dynamic where it's like you've got their first card and then it's versus their rookie card. And then it's like it has this whole debate. It's like, which one would you rather have? And I think, especially in these exceptional situations, I know we're talking about college football, but you think about, like, women's basketball and think about Caitlin Clark and think about her cards. Like, having her Bowman first chrome card right now still means an awful lot because of her profile. When you think about just like the first of a. The Bowman first versus like the rookie card, like, how do you measure and stack rank kind of those things together? Like, does the profile of the player matter? Does it not matter? Like, how do you consider those. Yu-Gi-Oh that's. That's a good talking point that I've always kind of wavered on where, you know, it's like. And especially now because one of the big things before where it was like, I was into, you know, some of the. The, like, draft cards before Bowman came out and it was, you know, one thing that I would always say is like, their college, like a juju Smith USC card. Like, he's not changing teams any. Like, you can get. You want the Pittsburgh Steelers card or wherever he goes after that. Right. So there's a lot of options there. But it's like his. His college team doesn't change now with the portal. It always changes. And now to your point, it's like, you know, the profile is so important where, you know, you're starting to see guys like Dante Moore, his Oregon card is outselling his Bowman first now. And that's maybe how people will remember him more. Even Cam Ward, Miami is doing more than his Washington State first. So I think definitely the impact that that player will have at that school. Another one would be Will Howard, Ohio State, now that I'm in Columbus here, over his. His Kansas State jersey. So I think it's, it is kind of the impact that they provide on the school and just, and the fans and then also I think, I guess a common thing would be, you know, the school that they were before and how much they contributed there. Again, Dante Moore maybe started five games at ucla. Not a lot of people would really know that. Cam Ward as well wasn't a huge name until he really hit the portal Bonet. Oregon is kind of a common theme. Theme. Bonix Bowman first and his Auburn in 2021 versus I mean he had two years of Oregon and those I would imagine are selling better. Michael Penix at Washington as well, you know, leading the Washington to the college football playoffs. So Yu-Gi-Oh I think it is kind of case by case and just kind of how big the fan base is and how much of an impact they had. I think that'll always kind of carry that, that amount of weight on the Bowman first and always has the college collector base wanting that card. So you have such a large fan base and then you're kind of opening it up to other people who are like, you know, I believe in the Bowman first long term and I never, I guess have any, I don't know what the word is, any complaint like, oh, Bowman University needs to be, you know, on the same scale as Bowman baseball. Like a lot of refractors you can get from Bowman u for under two or $3, maybe a big name does five or six and you know, you look at Bowman baseball and some of Those can do $60 on a Bowman first Refractor. But I'm sure there are some people who are like, man, I believe in the college game and the Bowman first and it being a big piece of, you know, the history of cards and, and everything that goes into it and you know, the significance of somebody's first card. You know, we'll see how that goes down the line. But I definitely see that angle. For sure. You can tell Gabe has a lot of thoughts and perspectives and is well versed on all things college collecting. You'd been sharing your content out, you know, on social and I know there reached a point where you decided, okay, well I'm pouring all of this energy and passion into creating like I'm gonna open up Patreon group and I'm gonna put out more content in the Patreon group. Like, what was your mindset there? And like how did you decide, like what goes in the Patreon group? What gets put out publicly? Like how did you organize kind of your, your content design across like free and paid. Yu-Gi-Oh Yu-Gi-Oh Yu-Gi-Oh that's a good question. And honestly, you know, to answer kind of the first part of the question, I don't think I've really told a whole lot of people, like, what made me do it, but I was just scrolling on Twitter and I think there was just discourse on like, who's winning in the card space and like how to grow and what's like the most sustainable way to. And I was reading the replies and there were a couple of, I guess, strings of replies where it was like, you know, people who have like a paid membership group, a Patreon, like, you know, I think. Let's talk wax, I think, is a big one for Bowman Baseball. And it's people like that who have a hardcore community, you know, on. On a subscription basis where you provide the value. That's kind of probably not a bad way to go in terms of the monetization piece of things. And I kind of thought about it on the end, you know what, Like, I might as well try it and then see. And I really didn't have much of a plan. I think I created it like in a couple days and just launched it in a way. I'm just going to make videos, you know, talking college football. And for. For the content that I put there, I think it is a lot more of a deeper. It was a great video to start with. I think one of my first videos was, it was like the top 150 players in college football by CBS. And I went through all 150 names. Hey, we're gonna Google search every single one, make sure like, hey, does this guy have an on auto or a stage auto that I just missed? And then it's just kind of, again, kind of going back to the comparisons where it's like, hey, like Caleb Downs, I think that was his year where it's like this guy's projected. Been projected a number one pick since he was a freshman. Like this guy, number one safety, he's gonna start as a true freshman at Alabama. And he used to all the benchmarks along the way. He lived up to the hype, truly, all along the way. And it's like, I don't think his base auto should be like $15 where they've talked about him for this long. So I think, you know, it's kind of just the deep dives of that. Any sort of information that we receive just from the off season or, you know, I think the off season is a little bit more of a grind just because you don't have the actual season to talk about once you're in the season, it's talking recaps and big performances and, hey, Mark Fletcher just went crazy. His Bowman autos are $30 now and that was, you know, a $5 auto a week ago. So just providing those Topps of insights and such, you know, is usually what I'll provide to the Patreon and as long as well as, like, any deep dives. Like, hey, this is a sneaky auto. Reed Harris is a guy that I really like and this is why. So those are the Topps of things that I'll do. And then in terms of, you know, public just depends. Like, I think, I guess it. It kind of honestly, like, depends on my mood or, you know, how much I'm picking up in the mail or if I buy a huge lot at a show or something and then I'll kind of, you know, throw some nuggets here and there. But I think, like, the deeper analysis and like my deep thought process and, and research and kind of my comps along the way with prices and players, that will all go on the Patreon. Did you find that your Patreon starting it up and giving obviously yourself a place to chair more and people coming in to consume more, did you find that something as simple as a Patreon group started to kind of build and develop like a space in a community for those individuals that I referenced earlier who have been collecting college cards and that's their primary lane, but they just have never really had anywhere to turn to. Like, did you get a sense that this was something that college collectors had been looking for? Yu-Gi-Oh I think so. And, and I think it does go back to, like, there isn't to my knowledge, like, anyone else who, who does it or, you know, there's always Facebook groups and such and, and group chats here and there, I'm sure. But I do have a discord channel for all those members as well. And they're just, you know, always it's people who are just as passionate as me and just what do we think of, you know, this, how are we handling a mod hardy situation right now? And, um, you know, just things like that where it's just like they just want to bounce ideas off of each other and talk and, you know, they just. They just love college football and that's it. College football is just such a huge, loyal, passionate fan base where, you know, it's just, you know, still so early in the product or there. I don't think there were a ton of creators or places to talk about it and you know, luckily just consistency and putting the work in over the time has definitely built it to what it is now. Okay, so I didn't prep you at all on this, but I just, I think this would be fun just in talking through this and giving the audience some sort of mindset on like what is possible with buying into a specific player's card at a specific point. In all your years of covering college football cards and seeing the highs and lows and seeing kind of rocket ships on put up be on someone's back and then being like someone no one's even talking about to, then all of a sudden being like someone who's just like a constant part of the conversation. Is there a specific player in card that has been like one of the biggest stories just in your coverage like gone from like very little attention to all of a sudden it's like the headline or he's the guy everyone's talking about. Is there a specific player you can think of? So I think there's two. One of them would be Jackson Darth. I do think like Nottle, I actually faded Jackson Dart originally. So in 2022 he was in Bowman University. And then they brought in Spencer Sanders, transfer from Oklahoma State. And the way that Jackson Dart had ended the season, I didn't love it. And I'm like, well, I don't think Lane Kiffin would bring in another quarterback, you know, if he didn't have the intention to start him over Dart. I just, I was a little over or underwhelmed by Dart. And I really like Spencer Sanders. I'm like, okay, I'm going to buy some Spencer Sanders. Little did I know that's just kind of how Lane Kiffin operates in the portal. And he's just going to somehow he just convinces all these guys like he'll get five starting running backs from across the country. And it's like, Yu-Gi-Oh this is a loaded running back room and he only plays like two or three of them. But so I was kind of out on Jackson Dart and then he had a really good season and still nobody really cared. I think they played Penn State in their bowl game. I was like, man, just something about, you know, the Lane Kiffin system price, you know, Autos were about $10. They were down in the dumps, like just not a lot of people really cared. So I really did ride the Jackson Dart train for quite some time. Just something that I bought into believing. I like the price again, probably comparing to other quarterbacks in that class just felt right to me. But the big one and not even like a kind of a sleeper name. So maybe it doesn't answer your question, but your guy, Jeremiah Love was a guy that I just. There were a lot of, again, comparisons that made sense to me. Cam Scatterboo coming off the college ball playoff run was like 120, Bowman first. Ashton Genty was around $140, and he was the sensation of that year. But Jeremiah Love, I was like, $40. And I'm like, I like. It just doesn't make sense to me. Like, I think this guy's equally as good. He didn't have Bowman Best autos, which I thought was very important. Like, if you want a Jeremiah Love autograph, you're. You have to buy a Bowman first. It's not like a lot of guys who are in Bowman University and a Bowman Best, so I really like that appeal as well. And I just kept buying them up, buying them up, buying them up. And then I would say he's been one of the, gosh, maybe top seven most expensive guys in the product, if not one of the top three with just some of his sales. And, you know, there were times where, you know, I, I had a PSA 10 green auto. I think I got an offer at like 400. I'm like, yes, this is like, cool. And that's probably, you know, up a couple hundred since then. So definitely Jeremiah Love was just one. That talent just looked unreal. And when you see Scatter, Boo and Genti in the, in the year before at those prices, it just didn't make sense. So felt really good about the room there. And then, of course, you add, you know, notary, one thing that I really didn't factor a whole lot was like just the Notre Dame fan base compared to an Arizona State and Boise State as well. It was strictly like talent to price, not even factoring in, you know, all the Notre Dame fans who would passionately buy his cards as well. So that was one that, like, I just, I felt really strongly about where he was priced in the market. I'm like, I just, I don't think that this is right. So that was, I think, definitely one of my big ones, for sure. You mentioned Notre Dame. I think about Ohio State, I think about Texas, Michigan, like these blue bloods, like, massive fan base across the country. Like, you alluded to the fact that with, like, Jeremiah Love, not only was he just an insane player and he continued to elevate the price of his cards, but when a player is doing that on one of these historic college football programs, like even probably non collectors are going to want to jump in just to get a piece of those cards to support the university and support their players. Like how do you think about those tier one programs? And when I'm, I'm not necessarily classifying tier one as like the winningest, but like tier one from like a fan base and demand perspective. Like how do you think about that during kind of thinking about prices, evaluation, where things might go? Yu-Gi-Oh Yu-Gi-Oh I think, I think that helps give me like some comfort for sure. Where it's like there's you know, a lot of eyeballs on this specific team and you know, it's, it's a team that historically would probably sell pretty well. And one, there's two guys actually that, that kind of make me think that way. Nebraska, there's Jacori Barney and Naziah Hunter. They were both in 2025 Bowman University. And two guys that I think are elite dynamic playmakers and their Bowman first are under $10. I mean I feel like there's some pretty good upside there. Probably not in like the, the first round, maybe not even top 50 conversation, but some hype around Nebraska. It is a power program. They've had all these consecutive sellouts for decades and decades. Think that's something that makes me maybe a little bit more bullish on, on guys like that where it's like, hey, anything under $10 I'll probably scoop up and you know, I'll stash it. So Yu-Gi-Oh I think that always gives me comfort compared to a guy like I would say Jaden Virgin Morgan. He's a defensive end at Boise State. I love him as a player. I think he's Zebra productive. Boise State is passionate, but probably not like the huge numbers that, you know, all these big powers would have. I think that does give me a little bit more hesitation compared to buying a Mateo Uyongole out of Oregon where it's like, okay, Mateo's got first round grades, he's Beckett by Oregon fans. Like I feel a lot better about that. Even though it is a $15 auto compared to Jaden Virgin Morgan at, you know, seven or eight dollars. Still buying Jaden Virgin Morgan just because I like him as a player and I think it's a fun start throw lottery ticket that, you know, I'd love, I'd love to play. But Yu-Gi-Oh I'll always kind of now a consideration for sure and I think gives me that comfort, you know, when I'm trying to make a play. I was at the Notre Dame Boise State game last year and I Was actually very impressed by the turnout from Boise State Nation. I was like, all right. Like, they're traveling in. There's actually a lot of blue, blue and orange jerseys in the crowd. Like, respect. So I think your breakdown and just the way you look at things is certainly helpful and undeniably like, you're. You're sharing a deep level of intelligence, a deep level of passion when it comes to a specific lane and category. And I want to get into, like, how you and Ryan connected and how you met and how this became an opportunity. Obviously, anyone, which most everyone knows who Ryan is and knows the Card Collector 2 brand, and everyone knows Ryan is like a passionate, deeply passionate Ohio State fan just by following his content. I mean, it's Ohio State or nothing. So knowing Ryan and knowing just how much he loves his school and loves collecting those cards, like, when did that intersection between what you were doing and Ryan noticing what you were doing, like, when did that take place? Thinking about it, I'm trying to remember the year, but I'm pretty sure it was Bowman University 2023. So, like I said, I think that was just. It was such a massive class. And I remember when the checklist was being Tribute it's like, Yu-Gi-Oh Carson Beck, Michael Pennix, Caleb Williams, J.J. mcCarthy, Bo Nicks. Like, the Colorado guys in there, like, that was a massive checklist. Boxes have doubled in price. And that was just, I think, a big attention grab for a lot of people. Like, Yu-Gi-Oh this Bowman University in college football, it has a lot of legs in the card space. And so I had always, ever since I joined the hobby or rejoined, had been a fan of Ryan. But it really wasn't until I think it was like, December 2023, and I got a notification that Card Collector 2 had mentioned me in a tweet, and it was a shout out. And it was like, you know, been following Gaby card stacks for a while, and I am very impressed with his college football knowledge and commitment to grinding cards. You know, as a college collector, I appreciate and just want to give him a shout out. Like, Yu-Gi-Oh Like, I didn't even know, like, he knew me. And, you know, just. It was really, really special to kind of see that. And then I think Bowman Best had just come out and he had DM me and he was like, man, Bowman Best. This is an awesome product. And then we just kind of exchanged numbers from there and started talking and was pretty casual, just in conversation, like, oh, like, what do you think about this guy? Or he'd be at a show and like, oh, like, Is this guy any good or, you know, what's your thought here? And then I guess, gosh, I guess over the last like year or so, I'd say we got pretty close. You know, I think the time difference, Phoenix to Ohio helped. You know, when he's leaving the office late, I'm like getting started in cards. I had a full time corporate job, so he would just call me on his drive home and just be like, oh, like, you know, we talk about college football games that week. Oh, who do you like this week? Just talking college football and just talking cards. And we just developed that relationship over the last few years, which has been awesome and Yu-Gi-Oh ultimately led here, which I'm sure we're about to dive deep into. Yu-Gi-Oh So like mutual interest turned into regular communication turned into friendship. And this happens all of the time. Like very rare does this turn into career opportunity. And not only a career opportunity, but like a career opportunity in a space that you've been creating around. So when did this start becoming a reality around? There might be a job opportunity here. This might be a opportunity for me to move my family from one side of the country to the other. Like, take us into kind of these moments when this opportunity was emerging and you were in like the consideration phase for like, do I leave my corporate job and go do this? Yu-Gi-Oh Yu-Gi-Oh So I'd say probably over like the last two years or so we had kind of been just in, in communication. Just like as some of it joking like, oh like wish, wish you could just price all these cars for like, or like, you know, go through all these cards and like tell me who to pick out and all this stuff. And he'd, you know, show me the piles of cards on his Disco like, dude, that looks like so much fun. I would do that in a heartbeat. So it was just like joking like that. And you know, eventually I would help kind of price some of his stuff. So I would work for him I guess occasionally on the side, whether that's Tom C. Or sending him list of like, hey, who to grade, who does who to hold, sell all that. So we had kind of had that kind of dynamic again, just always joking like, oh, like, you know, hey, I'll fly you out right now if you want to organize my desk and all my college. That would sound amazing right now. I love organization and just cleaning and just, you know, sorting piles of cards and stuff. So that was always a conversation and then I would say things got probably most or started to get really get serious along the lines of this last Bowman drop, and he's like, hey, we'd love to, like, have you out for Bowman University release week. And, like, we could do a lot of content on it. You could help with breaks and like, just talk college and, you know, we could just also hang out as friends. So I think I ended up going like a week or two after release and we had kind of talked about it. I'm like, Yu-Gi-Oh like, I don't know if I would ever move to Columbus realistically. And my wife and all that, like, she's never been. That was my first time in Ohio and it was still kind of in the back of both of our minds, I would say, leading up to this year. But I think honestly, what. What honestly kind of really helped push me and my wife over the edge was the birth of our second son. So we have a six month old and that really changed our perspective just over the last five months leading up to, you know, us getting really serious about this and, you know, just changes your perspective. You know, I'm working a corporate job. She's working some odd shifts. She works in the, the medical field. So just, you know, when your kids are that young and, you know, time is precious and such and, you know, just those Topps of considerations. Our house, you know, where, hey, we're kind of outgrowing our starter home that we had. And there's a lot of things that go into, into, you know, the thought of, coincidentally, I was on 10 weeks of paid parental leave with my corporate job, and Ryan had called me on my first day back and he was like, hey, you know, how was your first day back? Like, was it stressful? How'd you feel? He's like, oh, don't you wish you were in Grove City? And I was like, Yu-Gi-Oh kind of. And honestly, like, the next day, like, it just kind of turned into job offer of like, Yu-Gi-Oh like, what would this look like? And, you know, he's like, well, how soon do you think you could come out? And it just happened really quick from that week on. And again, I think just our second son just really kind of changed our perspective of, you know, it'd be something fun new. My job. I love my job. I was a campus recruiter for a consulting firm. So I would travel to the colleges and find interns and consultants. But I always knew in the back of my mind, like, I would never leave my job at that point for another recruiting job. Like, I liked where I was. There were, there was no complaints. But I knew my next job wouldn't be in recruiting. I knew it would be something else, a career change of sorts. I had already done a career change. I was in accounting when I first left college, then did campus recruiting. So always knew something would be calling. I just didn't know when that would happen. But, Yu-Gi-Oh it happened all in about a week. My wife and I talked about it. We felt pretty okay with it. Called our realtor. I was like, hey, how fast could we sell a house? Because again, just the timing of it all, the interns. Our internship started like June 18th or 19th. These are kids that I recruited for the past fall. And. But then we also had Columbus Card Fest the following week. We had Fanatics Fest. We have the national coming up. We've got Ship Shawana two weeks after that. And I just felt like, you know, originally me and my wife, like, Yu-Gi-Oh like we'd go out and visit in. No, in October, November, when my busy season is. Is slow. My busy season from. For my corporate job would have been like June to October or so. So it'd be like, Ryan, let's, you know, fly out there. We can check it out. But Yu-Gi-Oh my wife just said, Yu-Gi-Oh let's do it sight unseen for her. I'd been out to Columbus. That was twice. But it was just kind of a quick move. And I think it just. Me and my wife were just. Yu-Gi-Oh In a space where, you know what, it makes sense. Let's just try this out. Yu-Gi-Oh I think we should just hear it out, try it out. And we just don't want to regret the opportunity or turning down the opportunity and wondering, oh, should we have or what if we did this and move? So my wife is awesome and Zebra supportive of all of that. And again, just a lot of different factors just kind of went into it, but made it a quick decision. A sad one for. For me to leave home. For sure. That's. I've lived in Arizona my entire life. But again, I think just the comfort that I had and the friendship with Ryan really made a lot of sense and just something that, you know, again, just our second son really kind of changed our perspective for sure. How important was the number one trust that had been developed between you and Ryan through your relationship, paired with the current state of the industry side of sports cards where, I mean, we're. We're bursting at the seams. It seems like the infrastructure still forming, the money is coming in. Like, how did you take those into consideration when kind of making the jump? Yu-Gi-Oh for sure. I think, you know, I just had an immense amount of trust in Ryan. I know you know, it's, it's a big decision for him also to say, hey, move your family across the country and, you know, trust in me and, you know, Yu-Gi-Oh I just had that trust in him, I think. I mean, we've, we've worked a lot. You know, we've had Stockwatch, which is our college football podcast. And so, you know, we've worked closely together and you know, Yu-Gi-Oh we just become Zebra close where I like, you know what, I feel good about this and with the market and the industry and everything that changes, you know, so quickly, you know, something as like PSA shutting down, you know, could significantly change, you know, a business and something just outside of his control or anything. So, Yu-Gi-Oh I just feel like I've always had that trust in him from the beginning. We worked Zebra closely together and, you know, I think we've really started to, to both see the opportunity in the, in the college football market specifically as well, where that's where I'll be spending a lot of my time on content creation and such. So, Yu-Gi-Oh I just feel like everything kind of lined up. It was, there weren't really a lot of nerves, to be honest, in making the move and I think maybe that's just a sign that it feels like it's the right move. But I just, I feel like we're both on the same page with, with where we want to be and what we want to do. That I think it was just worth the shot. You started at a awesome time. Feet to the fire, all the shows, everything going on. I'm thinking about just like the, your story and where it started and where it's at now. And I guess maybe as we're kind of rounding the corner on this conversation, would you say, like, the reason you are where you're at right now was because one day you decided, you know what? I really like college football. I like college football cards. And I'm going to start creating content around it. Yu-Gi-Oh no, definitely. Cards changed my life. I, I would have never have guessed even two months ago that we would have been in Columbus, Ohio and, and moving and you know, having a full time job in, in trading cards. So, Yu-Gi-Oh I think it is interesting just to kind of look back on it and just the connection that I made, the relationship that I've built with Ryan and again, I think just the amount of trust we have in each other that it's led to this and it's. Yu-Gi-Oh it's Zebra fun and just something that again, I don't think I ever would have, would have Imagined, you know, I just remember making a Twitter account one day when, when the world was shut down and you know, just discovering, you know, card Twitter and you know, Yu-Gi-Oh it is, it is just insane to think about kind of the progression and where we are and where we want to go. All right, as we close this out, there are a lot of people listening that are working their nine to five corporate jobs, want to be working in sports cards, trying to figure it out. Like, what piece of advice would you give to anyone out there who wants to be doing what you're doing or have a similar path but doesn't really know how to get started? Yu-Gi-Oh for sure. I think first off just finding your passion what, what you're passionate about. It doesn't have to be something specific within, you know, a type of card like college football. It could be about anything. But I think finding that passion of, of what you enjoy talking about the most and just I think feeling comfortable. I think a lot of people, you know, what, what holds them back for that barrier is like, oh, they're uncomfortable, you know, on, on camera or whatever the case may be. It doesn't have to be content either. You know, maybe it's just in graphic design or something or editing. So finding that passion and just following it all along the way, trusting yourself, I just, I can't emphasize it enough. You can follow him at Gaby card stacks. Check out Card Collector 2's channel. There you'll find Gabe appear and a lot of the new content. Gabe, man, it was great doing this. Hopefully get some time at the national. Yes, of course. Thanks for having me. I think it's so important sometimes to run to opportunities that we love, even though sometimes they don't feel like there's a ton of people focused around them. And I think that's what Gabe did. And I think Gabe's passion for college football cards and collecting caught the attention of Ryan and that attention led to a relationship, that relationship led, led to a full time job. A lot of cool stories like this. Can't wait to share more. Shout out ebay for sponsoring passion profession. There will be more next week. You all take care. Talk to you soon.