Prospecting HOF Players | Dealer POV | Vintage Market Update

Welcome back to the Hobby Chop Podcast. This is the podcast for the people. I am Big Ken. And you can see we have a guest here tonight, why Zip is off to Disney World. This week we have a special guest co host, Steve Loft at on Instagram @sl_.pc_. I get that right, Steve? Sure, Yu-Gi-Oh PC. I'm the first one that comes up, but excellent. I felt like I've been typing that in all day long. Steve, thank you. Thank you for showing up. Thank you for filling in tonight. How are you doing tonight? I'm doing well, thank you. Thanks, Ken. Thanks for having me. It's always good to see you. Yu-Gi-Oh Yu-Gi-Oh of course. So we met what, three, four years ago? We met, I think, Yu-Gi-Oh we met doing a deal or getting a deal done. And since then you've started setting up as a dealer at shows. But you've got kind of a crazy PC, right? Five minute elevator pitch who you are. So people listening in know who you are and we. What you do. Yu-Gi-Oh sure, Yu-Gi-Oh I mean, I collected as a kid, like a lot of us, and took a 28 year hiatus. Came back to the hobby in 2019, right before COVID and you know, so what I'm. I'm entering like year seven now back in the hobby and have. Have gone into all different lanes. But now my, my main PC is, is PSA1s. Most people know me for my crazy PSA1 collection. I've got over like 200 Whatnot, and you know, rare PSA ones of iconic cards and not so iconic cards. Some ironic cards, as I like to say. Yu-Gi-Oh So. And, and I've been setting up the deal for a little over three years now. So I've been behind the table and that's been an education that's been a lot of fun. And, and now I'm creating content also around those experiences behind the table. Like you're your classic dealer POV content and spent a lot of time on Instagram. I've met you at a couple of different shows. We did that deal back when we have some mutual friends and hobby associates like Craig, New York City sports cards and Carmine. Carmine's cards. I met Carmine at the airport in 2024 going to my first national and I had my. We just happened to be on the same connecting flight. Okay, so that was Cleveland, right? Going to Cleveland. Cleveland, Yu-Gi-Oh we were going to Cleveland. I was at. I think it was at LaGuardia and he was connecting and a bunch of collectors going out to the show were on the same flight. But I met Carmine, and we got to know each other right there in the airport showing each other our collections. I was showing them my crazy PSA ones and did all those beautiful, like, patch auto hall of Fame, patch auto Birds and magics, who we'll talk about tonight when we're talking about prospecting hall of Famers. I think they're on the short list. Yes, yes, I bet you they are. But, Yu-Gi-Oh so. So here I am, you know, on the hobby chop with you, filling in for zip. Better him than me being at Disney World. Not. Not my lane. I. I spent a few. A few weeks in Disney down in Florida throughout the years when my kids were younger. The last time I went, believe it or not, I went by myself, so. And it was probably. Even though it's great to go with young kids and all that stuff, but I think that solo trip was probably the. The best trip I had. I got to do what I wanted to do. If I wanted to go on a ride three times, nobody was telling me, I don't want to do that, you know? So, Yu-Gi-Oh it was. It was kind of fun taking a solo trip down there. Yu-Gi-Oh that's great. That's great. But. But getting back to you, I. I just have to ask this question, and I know we've talked and at shows and online and everything else, but I really have to imagine, because I have a PSA3 Mac Jones card. That was just kind of funny that, you know, I. I got that. I sent all these out during COVID I got a whole bunch of tens, and one came back a three, right? And. And it's a pop one. And do you. Would you. I mean, you know how hard it is to get a PSA3 on a card, right? Especially a modern card. I can't imagine how hard it is to get a PSA one on a card. So you just can't set out and look at a card and say, oh, Yu-Gi-Oh this is a PSA one for sure. I'm gonna grade it. I. I mean, you just have to go out and buy all those PSA1 cards, right? Mostly 95 of my collection are PSA ones that I've bought when I've subbed Ken. Like, If I sub 20 cards and I'm going for the ones, it's ridiculous. It's almost like subbing for the tens. I get like a 41 rate. You know, these cards have beat to hell, and I'm getting one and a halfs that are like unicorns get like four or five in a sub I swear PSA is playing pop control on the bottom end of the pop report, just like they play on the top end. It's. It's really insane. I could see, like, I gotta fold this up and overgraded. I like the hunt and I've found most of them in the wild, you know, at shows. The White Plains show this past weekend, the east coast national was awesome for finding a few, you know, more of the traditional PSA ones. And I'll buy an SGC one as well. But I usually find them graded. Grading can be very tricky. It's not as easy. Everyone's like, oh, you could just make a one. It's not that simple. You know, I sold a Michael Jordan PSA1 a couple weeks ago. 1989 hoops. It's the card where he's dribbling the ball and he's got his finger up going up the court. It's calling the play. He's holding up the one. So it's a great PSA one. That's partly why I loved it. Top five, 48,000. Graded higher, right? So it's a needle in a haystack. It's like such a rare grade. I bought it for 12 bucks in February of 2023. Brought it out to a show a couple weeks ago. I had a 175 sticker on it. Everyone's like, oh, that's interesting. One guy thought it was a 10. He's running comps in a 10. I'm like, no, it's a one, right? So I take it home. No interest in this car, in my showcase, right. I put it on a seven day Sunday night. Seven day auction on ebay. Sunday night. What did the Card end at? PSA1. 1989 hoops. Michael Jordan. His. His mark is through the roof. So I was, it was a little game I was playing. I wanted to see, like, can I capitalize on this market with the PSA1? 45. $410. What? Seven day auction, Sunday night to Sunday night. I ended around 10 Eastern. 410. I had to send it through eBay authentication for PSA1. Pop 5. 48, 000. Graded higher. Yu-Gi-Oh Pretty incredible. Was there any other recent sales on that card? No, again, it never comes up. Yu-Gi-Oh and I bought it for 12 ship. 12 ship that in 2023. Just, just while it speaks to Jordan's market, but also speaks to like, you know, collectors, I guess, finding different ways to collect and building those rainbows and all that kind of stuff. But Yu-Gi-Oh pretty wild. I was way off times 10, right? So. So let's get started tonight. You. You started, you started setting up as a dealer. And that was one of the first conversations we had about, you know, just the ups and downs, the, the highs and the lows about being on. I mean, from the dealer's point of view, right? The dealer's pov that, you know, if you're a dealer and you've been there, you know, but if you've never set up as a dealer from the other side of the table, I mean, immediately. And something we, we discussed was, you know, people automatically assume you're crushing it, right? You're, you're making a fortune. You're buying these cards for nothing, and you're making all your money on me, you know, like, like, like people. People. Some, some sometimes, you know, treat you like, you know, you're, you're robbing people when you're behind the table. And the reality of it is, if you're doing the grind, like we do the grind like almost every weekend, you know, we're setting up at shows. If you. And I'm going to start with, if you really broke it down to an hourly rate, what you are paying yourself, I mean, could you even, could you even be on a positive? Could it even be positive, like what you feel you're worth, right? Because I have this conversation with my wife all the time. She's like, my God, you're putting all these hours in. Like, what are getting paid an hour down there, like doing all that stuff. But I mean, it's a hobby, so I love doing this stuff. And I, you know, I could, I could spend eight hours doing this and then finish and be like, not even think twice and go off and do something else. Where if I was at a job and I did eight hours, I'd come home, be like, oh, my God, that was the longest job ever, right? Yu-Gi-Oh Yu-Gi-Oh No, I, I think we do it because we love it, right? We like dealing in cards. So that, that's the first thing, you know, if you think about how much you're making. I'm still operating in the low to mid end. I'd like to get out of the, out of the low end. I'd like to. In fact, this is. I'm going out this weekend. This Saturday. I'm doing the North Jersey card show, Shout Out Nick, and the North Jersey card show. I'll be there Saturday from 9 to 3. I'm not bringing a dollar box. You know, every few shows I build a dollar box and bring one out. Now I'M going like, you know, everything's like 20 bucks and up. I want to get to a point where I've got like, everything is, you know, 50 and up, 100 and up. Right. I want to get up to that level. I'll never be operating in the fours and five figures, I don't think. It's not really my thing. But, you know, my average show, if I can gross at a small local show, if I could GROSS A thousand, 1500, that's, that's a pretty good show, right? From going out with some cards that are anywhere from 50 to 200 bucks. And on that, let's say I. Let's say I make that fifteen hundred dollars in sales. What am I making? Ten to twenty percent profit. So, you know, maybe three hundred of that is profit for the day. Now it's the six hours, it's the travel, it's, you know, the setting up for the show. But the one thing I'll say about the show, not only is it fun, we enjoy it. Right. We enjoy going out. We like dealing in cards. I like the negotiation aspect, but it's the only place I know, Ken, without sending a bunch of stuff to auction where you could mass liquidate. And that's why I keep going back. So I'm trying to like, just get my collection down to the cards that I want. I have cards besides PSA ones. Right. But I'm trying to like, partly why I started going out as I was consulting, it was part of my consolidation process. And I don't know any other way to go out and sell cards in mass other than posting lots on Facebook, Marketplace or like I said, sending stuff to auction, which I've done in the past. I've sent like 50 and 60 cards at a time to probe Stein or I know you use PC sports cards. Haven't done that in a while because now I just take that stuff out to the shows and it goes, it goes, it goes. I come home with a lighter case, mission accomplished. Even if I didn't make, you know, a ton of money. But there are shows where, you know, I'll make close to $10,000. Like I did the Hofstra show a couple years ago. It was huge. It was great. I know. I talked to a dealer this weekend that worked at White Plains, made him, you know, a five. It was a five figure show for them. I'm sure there were dealers that did six figures. You know, they're operating at that level. Yu-Gi-Oh the margins can be tight. The, the margin, we're not getting rich you and I are not getting rich setting up the shows. We're just trying to make a few bucks and, and keep hobbying. I mean one of the things, you know, just to break down a little bit of what you said we could send and I've done that. I've sent cards out to consignment and I've realized that I think for me personally for it to make sense, I need to send higher end cards out, you know, in order for it to make sense. And those higher end cards I really don't want to send out, like I really would rather have them at a show and, and also going to the shows, that creates opportunity, right? I know people like zip. My co host talks about like I can, I can, you know, I don't have to go to shows, I can buy and sell online and do all that stuff. And he's 100, right. But I just feel like if I'm out of the show, it just creates opportunities for me to, to, you know, find cards, you know, find deals and you know, it's, it's like if I'm looking for candy, right, If I go to the candy store, I'm, I'm guaranteed to find it, right? But if I go to Walmart, I may have to go up and down a bunch of aisles looking before I could find the candy aisle, right? Yu-Gi-Oh Well, you talked about opportunity. It's a great way to put it, Ken. And you have the opportunity at a show to buy a card and not set a new comp. We're in a copy comp world, right? I, I mean comps are a whole other discussion, but if I buy that card on ebay for a thousand dollars and I try and take it out to the show on Saturday, I'm working with a thousand dollar comp. If I go to the show and I stack three or four or five cars with the dealer who's already priced fair and is willing to give me another 10%, another 15% like I did this past weekend, I got some cards at a good deal. Three iconic cards. I got a Joe Montana PSA 8, 1981 tops rookie. I got the Jim Brown 1958 rookie and a PSA 2. And I got a third card, a Mickey Mantle 1955 Bowman three cards. I got it about 90 comps and it's been a week. One of them popped even higher and I feel the Montana is going to keep going up. I'm probably going to leave it home this weekend. I'll take out the Jim Brown, I'll take out the mantle. Cause I'm already up and I think I'm up a little bit more. But weren't at the show, I Goldin have found that opportunity or that deal to get the card below comps. No one knows what I paid for it. There's not a comp out there. And I'm now probably going to make 20% on each one of those cards. And they're a $500 card and $850 card. So there's arbitrage if you're on the Fleer and you're going to the shows week to week, besides the relationships you can build to get some deals that you wouldn't normal exposed to or have access to. Yu-Gi-Oh Yu-Gi-Oh And that's important too, you know, just the relationships. And for me doing the podcast, meeting people, just being out there to meet people and things like that. So Yu-Gi-Oh let's just say hello to the people. Howard. Welcome in. Bill. What's up, Big Ken? Welcome. Preston Muncie, K7U. What is up? And back to Bill. Bill's Bill just moved to South Carolina. He says shows in South Carolina, it's different from three shows a weekend in Connecticut. Yu-Gi-Oh My guy, military breaker. What up, kid? Appreciate you being in here tonight. Here's another one. Here's another one. I'm just talking to him, you know, he's taken the route. He just bought a scanner, you know, he just bought one of those expensive scanners and he's gonna go the. The route of scanning and putting cards up on ebay, you know. Yu-Gi-Oh And. And probably more similar like what you're doing with the cards you're talking about now. Right. Those. And I think those cards are so easy to buy at shows, especially from people like us. Right. Who are trying to get into the higher end of car, you know, the higher. Like we're always trying to move up. And sometimes whenever I go to a reset or I'm, I'm saying I want to sell everything, I go through the office and I start building the one and three dollars and the five dollar boxes because the stuff's just accumulating in the office. But like I'm the perfect mark for people that are doing stuff like that because really I'm just trying to move these cards Whatnot, I'm not here wasting a whole bunch of time negotiating on one and three dollar and five dollar cards where that's their whole life. Like not their whole life, but maybe that's their livelihood or that's their lane. That's what they're doing. So they go, they find 10, 15, 20 people like me at a show and right. They can clean up, get buying these cards and go home and just start listing them on ebay and, and you know, they're, there's a behind for every seat, right? I mean it's for, for whatever people want to do. Some people say, hey, Yu-Gi-Oh like I want to do that stuff. Other people are like, I just one-of-one I one-of-one move up. I want to be in 50 that you just said I want to be in 50 or, or higher cards. Why? Because there's probably more margin in there, right? I mean there's not a lot of margin in, in cards up to 20, $30. There's, you know, even if you try to do percentages on it, somebody wants to be, I mean you're only talking under a dollar or a dollar something. Is those, some of those percentages. So Yu-Gi-Oh I mean a 15% margin on a 500 card versus a 15 margin on a $50 card, you know, it's, it's just, you know, dollars and cents. Yu-Gi-Oh I'm with you. It's like I'm all, I'm there to liquidate. So if you're finding me, there's a good chance you're going to find a good deal. Especially if I have a box out and I've already sold X amount of cards in that value box. I've, I've done a couple of shows in the last three months where at the end of the show I'm looking for someone to just take the whole box. You know, go ahead, take it. I'll make it a best deal. Yu-Gi-Oh And I was at Bill in South Carolina. Not many shows. Good for you. Less competition. Right. Because sometimes we're setting up in Connecticut or New York or you know, in Jersey and there's multiple shows going on, so it could be hit or miss. It's the other thing of setting up. You never know what, what even, even an established show could have a bad weekend and there's not as many people through the door. Yu-Gi-Oh Sometimes you would think like, I think if, like, like for him being there, I think if I went to an area like that immediately I'd be trying to start a show. Right. I'd be looking for the VFW or, or something similar to, to start, you know, once a month or twice a month show just to try to be the first person in there, you know, even though nobody's doing it. And it may only start out with a handful of people each week, but it's Something that, you know, may grow or you would hope that would grow. Yu-Gi-Oh Let's see. Who else did we have here? Sports car, the hobby. Michael, what is up with you? Blue Ice good. That's, that's, that's the other half of Bill and Billy. What's up, MJ? MJ inserts are booming. Says Military Breaker 4296. Yu-Gi-Oh Yu-Gi-Oh that's for sure. Sports. Sports Mic 2. Hello. Oh, and that's just. That must be his scanner, the Fi8170. Yes, you'll have to give us a full report on that. I like the scan tool. Right. In ebay, have you used the Ken, do you sell on ebay? I, I, I've used the scan tool on ebay, like for, for to identify cards. I do that a lot. Like, like if I'm not sure, you know, what the actual, you know, version of that card is. You know, the only down thing, the only down part. I came back from the national and I was using that a lot just to identify what the cards were. When I wanted to comp it, I just found it easier just to take picture, let ebay kick up and I could go through and say, oh Yu-Gi-Oh that's the card, you know, now I can search it easily. Old school, because I'm old. Yu-Gi-Oh No, they have a function where you could scan to sell and I've used that to. Someone just showed it to me a few months ago and I've been using that to scan and list some lowering cards, even like three and four dollar cards that I could put in a plain white envelope. So, so you just take your phone and scan the card. It'll automatically tell you, you know, give you a description and everything. Yu-Gi-Oh it gives you the whole description. It gives you the price and you just hit, you know, list, and it just pulls up the listing. You just take the details and you hit, you know, and you just list it. Yu-Gi-Oh I'll have to give it to you offline. Yu-Gi-Oh Does it give you, does I obviously gives you the option. Does it suggest whether you should do it as an auction or is it a buy it now? It will give, it will give you the option to do both. I'm on my phone here, I'm sure you can see it, but there's my ebay app. Right down here is my ebay. And I open the, my ebay. Can you even see that, Ken? Probably not. In my ebay, you scroll down under selling shortcuts. They've got a shortcuts menu here and it says Scan cards, right? Scan cards. It's not the scan in the menu bar, but there's a scan cards on the shortcuts, and that's where I've been. It opens up the camera, you take the picture, it'll list the card for you, you set the price, and you're on your way. I could list, literally, I could list 10, 10 cards in, you know, 10 minutes. Like a minute of card. Oh, that's a nice tool. I did not know that. And that's, that's my biggest, my biggest downfall. When I'm going to put up, I gotta sit here in the office, set up the staging to take pictures front, back and all that. So. Yu-Gi-Oh that would be fun too. Yu-Gi-Oh Yu-Gi-Oh give it a go. It's great. Yu-Gi-Oh Yu-Gi-Oh But now we're getting into, you know, I'm doing a show every weekend probably for the next two months, right. So I, I one-of-one I one-of-one have anything or hardly anything list listed on, on ebay for sale. So. So again, from our little behind the, behind the. The dealer POV behind the table for sourcing cards, how have you found that? I mean, you've been setting up for a few years now. Are you finding it easier with the relationships you're making? Are you finding harder because margins are so much Shimmer I think, I think the latter. It's. It's hard, you know, the, the margins are slim for a lot of dealers, so you just have to find the right dealer. I, I find I'm sourcing mostly at the shows, so if I'm not working a show, I'm trying to walk a show. If I need inventory right now, I'm pretty well stocked, so I'll go out this Saturday. I'm hoping to sell a bunch. If I sell too much, I might hit a show on Sunday to restock for next weekend, but if I don't, I'm like halfway home. I don't have to do much going into next weekend. Right. I set up for a show usually good for two or three weekends that's set up, but hopefully I have a good show and have to go out and buy more. But mostly in person, you know, at shows. Again, you're buying on ebay, you're setting the comp. It's hard to find that margin. Not really doing Facebook Marketplace these days. I used to buy big lots. Like, I know you bought a lot recently. I haven't done that in a while because I still have a lot of stuff that I need to get through and get out. The grading Shutdown has hurt me a little bit in the sense that I would often, like quarterly, just send in 30, 40, 50 cards, vintage, you know, 90s, 2000s, like, stuff that even in a, you know, eight or a nine, I could. There's some arbitrage. I can make a few bucks, I can make my margin. Can't really do that right now. And I don't know if you saw, they just didn't. PSA announced today that they're pushing their, their, their regular grading. People were using that as bulk grading. I guess now that that's been pushed back, it's the. You know what's really bad about that? It's not only because I did it. I did the crazy stunt. You could check my Instagram for the video where I submitted three cards at the regular submission rate, all for PSA ones. So 80 bucks a card for the PSA one. You know, it's funny, but then I sold the Jordan for 410, right? They're all like, top zero. And there's a Mike Tyson, it's a pop one. But what's really bad about them extending the wait times on the regular means a. There's demand at 80 bucks. So when are they ever gonna bring back value? If I'm running a business, demand at 80 bucks, it's like, that's the most depressing part. Not that I have to, that I paid 80 bucks plus shipping, paid 275 for three cards. So you do the math. Almost 90. Over 90 bucks a card. So now I have to wait, what, three months, four months, five months for that to come back. But it's the demand that's still there at $80 a card. When are we ever going to see value come back? I don't know. Ever. Well, and here's something I know. I just went back and looked. So this card that just came back yesterday to me from psa, I posted up on my Instagram. So this got to PSA June 16th. This card right here got to PSA June 16th. And I just arrived yesterday home, so. And I said it at the regular level. I mean, I'm ecstatic that it's a PSA 10, right? That's awesome. I saw you post that on Instagram. I never expected it. I thought this was going to be an 8, maybe a 9, but because it was, you know, just, just the card that it was with, with all the inscription on it, I just wanted it encased right with my car. I wanted it in case. Then it comes back at 10, and I'm like, all These cards I sent in to get a 10. I can't get a 10. The one I'm like, I don't care what. It comes back. Yep. Well, I have a question. Did you. Did you direct sub or submit through sports cards? No, I direct sub that. And that was a one card sub. Yep. So that's interesting. I mean, you gave them the one card and they said, okay, maybe they give you the benefit of the doubt for the one card sub at the $80 level. Because I still feel grading is. Is subjective in so many ways. Of course it is. So there's that and, and good for you to get it back in two months because it seems like a lot of us at the $80 level, the regular service level, are going to be waiting much longer than we had anticipated. Yu-Gi-Oh Yu-Gi-Oh It's just. It's just wild. Yu-Gi-Oh And the last question I wanted to talk to you about is what, when you're out to show, what are you buying? Like, what is, what is your lane? What are you buying and selling at your table? Yu-Gi-Oh I'm staying in my lane and I'm buying Hall of fame vintage. I don't mind buying a low grade. I like, I bought the Jim Brown and a PSA2. Obviously, that's a car that you get away with in a low grade. I bought the mantle in A one. You know, I collect one. So if I see a nice one, I know there's. There's some money to be made on A one if I get it at a good price, because I really know that market. I'm looking at PSA ones all the time. And it's like, I know half the people that are gonna listen to this be like, PSA ones. How can you make money on that? But, you know, if you're talking about iconic players and iconic cards, there's. There is some arbitrage in the low grades in the ones and the twos, because you never see them. And there are collectors that want to get in on an iconic card or a great player at that price point. So, you know, and even at the, in the nines and the tens, the margins are such that, you know, If I'm making 15 to 20% on a 9 or a 10, well, if I can make that on a low grade and card, you know, why not? I like to have that stuff. In my case, I'm looking for vintage. I'm looking for goats like everyone else. I'm looking for hall of famers and fan favorites, anyone in between. But. But I don't do the Mod, the ultra modern, the QB flips. I got burned in the hobby. You know, all of my negatives, all of the cards I'm underwater on are the John Morantz, the Zion Williamson's, you know, the Trey Youngs, you know, all the baseball players I prospected. That just didn't work out for me. I think, I think 99 of 100 don't work out. I know some collectors make money in that they can flip and make money. It didn't work for me. So I kind of go with established stars and hall of Famers when I'm looking for cards. Yu-Gi-Oh it's definitely hot potato. Right. And, and I've done it and I was somewhat successful, you know, when I really went back and I weighed both sides of it. But it's something that I'm, I'm getting out of too, out of that, you know, prospecting. And also with the change from Panini to Tops with the licensing and, and the cards, you know, the, the cards that are coming out and, and how we're purchasing them and what the price is on those cards, immediately the boxes, box prices all went up on stuff that I'd been buying. And then they're consolidating all the players, especially the college, into the pro boxes now. So just a lot of changes in that has really kept me away from, you know, buying, ripping, or even prospecting on, you know, young players. I love ripping too. I grew up ripping, you know, opening packs of cards. Right. When I got back in, in 2019, that's. That was part of my hobby, was ripping. But like you said, it's just so expensive, I can't justify it. I'd rather take that 500 bucks for a hobby box or $1,000 for a hobby box and buy, you know, seven or eight graded cards. A couple for the PC, a couple I could bring out to shows and make 20 or 25% on and just keep it moving that way. Yu-Gi-Oh it's just not economical. I just, I just can't hobby that way right now. All right, well, let's jump into the highlight of the episode tonight. Prospecting hall of Famers. Right. And, and it seems like it's, it's a no brainer, right? Yu-Gi-Oh does seem like that. You know, and you were just asking what I buy at shows. I like stuff that has a Fleer And I feel like if you're prospecting, if you're looking for something that's got some upside, right. Some wild upside, I think it's nice to have that Fleer that, that hall of Fame cards offer and we've seen some of these guys pop, right? I'm going to talk about someone that's popped recently, Peyton Manning. So I had a bunch of for years for, since like 2021, Ken. I was buying Peyton Manning refractors. I had like almost his full career, including his Topps Chrome rookie 1998 Topps Chrome and a BGS 9.5. And from 2021 when I started until 2024 when I, when I finally got out of my Topps Chrome Refractor, it's like a pop 45. At the time it was flat and I was like, I'm done with this card. I was at the 2024 National. I traded it into a Giannis Silver Prizm PSA 10, right. I traded out of it at about three grand. It recently sold for eight grand. So Peyton Manning is a good example of a, of a Hall of Famer that was just sitting there for us. He was flat for years while everyone was chasing the hot QB or the hot NBA prospect or the hot MLB prospect. Here was Peyton Manning, here was, here was Brady up here and here was Manning and everybody commenting on those prices, right? I can't believe Peyton gets no love. Brady got all the love. Peyton doesn't get any love. I mean, we all look, eventually he would close the gap. I just didn't, I didn't hold long enough. Now I still have a couple of the refractors and thankfully I sent them to the PSA vault. I've got about 50 cards there. Otherwise I probably would have flipped them too early because they've now like more than 2x at this point. They're sitting in my vault. I'm still holding them, thinking they're going to keep running up. So who else is out there? Who's the next prospecting hall of Famers? Like who's the next one? And that's what I've kind of turned my attention and we talked about a little bit offline. Yu-Gi-Oh Yu-Gi-Oh You know, I'm going to tell you, I'm going to give you a funny story, right? So I am in a group, you know, we're always a bunch of guys, card guys, and we're taught, you know, no matter what's going on, we're chatting all day. So today it was the, the Tops basketball cards. I can't think of what, what, what particular one it was. But they were going today at noon time, right? I mean at 12 o' clock you could, you could go on and, and, and submit your name to me to be in A lottery to get, you know, to get, to purchase the boxes, right? So a motif. Thank you, Howard. Tops motif. And Howard was in that chat, right? So somebody said, oh, these boxes are fourteen hundred dollars a box. Is it worth it? And a couple of people are like, Yu-Gi-Oh it's worth, you can get them. It's worth it, right? So I just started thinking to myself, like, God, fourteen hundred dollars, right, for, for, you know, for a hobby box and, and what could I pull out of it? Like, am I going to get my money out of it? I mean, I'm obviously, if I'm hitting a Cooper flag or something like that, I'm gonna get my money out of it. So, so I just did a little exercise today. I said, okay, if I had fifteen hundred dollars to spend, right? And I was gonna go spend it right now or I'm sorry, $1400. It ended up being almost 15 because I Goldin round it out correctly. But, but, but this was the list of cards I could come up with with the same amount than buying that, that box, right? So, so one person you and I both agreed on, we talked about was Jerry Rice, right? So a Jerry Rice PSA8 Rookie, you just read my mind. Go ahead. The Jerry Rice PSA 8. Yu-Gi-Oh A Randy Moss, Bowman Chrome PSA 10. A Steve Young PSA 8. Emmett. And these are all rookies and Emmett Smith PSA 9. Brett Favre, the Stadium Club PSA 10, Ray Lewis, Bowman best PSA 9. And, and the cheapest card on the whole thing, TROY AIKMAN SCORE PSA9 brought us to just between 14 and $1500, right? So now here we are pulling out, you know, seven, eight hall of Fame players that you could be prospecting on. Any one of these players, right? I mean, any one of these hall of Fame players that buying those cards now, we can almost guarantee that we're going to see an improvement price that, you know, a rise in price of those cards at some point. It may not be next month, it may not be in six months, it may not be a year or two, but at some point we're, we're gonna see, it's going to catch up. And, and, and my, that so many new people coming into the hobby are getting burned, just like you talk about getting burned with all this new stuff. And, and I think we're seeing such, such a push up now of the, of the hall of Fame type players that people are like, I'm, I'm gonna like. It's a safer, it's a safer bet, like I, I, I, it may not go flying up. It may not be a flippable card. In other words, I may not be able to buy this card today and go to the next show and flip it for making 15 or 20% on the card. But at least if I buy it, I'm not going to lose the money on a prospect that the guy beats up his girlfriend or he's in a car accident or he gets hurt on the field or something and, and all of a sudden, or it just doesn't make it right. And all of a sudden the car, the card is just zero. So I think we're seeing a lot of that in the hobby right now and, and more people like collectors. I mean we talk about flipping all the time and if Zip was here, he'd be the first one yelling. There are way more collectors in the hobby than flippers, right. And, and you know, he's, he's true in that aspect. But I mean we think about flipping those cards. But you know, if you want to buy some cards and just hang on to them like you did your Peyton Manning cards, you, you could see a 2x or a 3x. Yu-Gi-Oh for sure. I think what you get out of like the tops motif, which I'm not very familiar with the product, but any new product, the Topps Chrome basketball, you have that opportunity for the big hit, right? The life changing card or it's just a really valuable card, even like a four figure, five figure card in that box. Whereas you know, the cards you mentioned, it's more of a slow burn, it's a good Fleer you're safe. The cards only gonna go up, but you know, how much is it gonna go up over time. You mentioned the Jerry Rice PSA 8 for that, 1400 for the box. You can get three of the PSA 8, maybe even four if you find a good deal in person. And you'd be much better off in my opinion. I think that's a, that's one card I've zeroed in on is like Jerry, right? The 1986 tops Jerry Rice PSA 8. Think about this sounds a little crazy. The Michael Jordan Fleer PSA 8 recently hit 20,000. I don't know if it's still there. 20,000 bucks. Now the Jerry Rice tops rookie is not the Michael Jordan Fleer, but it's not, you know, it's not insane to say that it's in the ballpark. You know, it's, it's around. I mean Jerry Rice is the goat wide receiver. That card is, is iconic and in a PSA, you PSA 8, you can get it for 3 to 350. That card's got room to grow. That could be a card that explodes, right? The Montana PSA8, it's more like 500 to 600 still when you look at that versus the Jordan. Yu-Gi-Oh it's never going to be $20,000. It's not the Jordan Fleer. But is there room to. Could it be 2X in a year? Could be, could be a thousand dollar card in a year. The rice could be 2 or 3x in 6 months to a year. So I've been focused in there. Like we've seen, you know, Shaq have a run up. Even some like Tim Duncan cards, Griffey, of course Bonds, all these guys have gone through the moon. So you know who's next. And, and kind of zeroing in on which cards, which great classic rookie cards or even not rookie cards. Just like you know, some of their numbered parallels, some of their more rare cards. What's the best card of a player that hasn't popped yet? And I've kind of been thinking about those cards. But even, even 70s football, I mean we, we haven't even talked about a player in the 70s. But at some point I would have to think that these players too are going to be, this lane is going to be where people are going to want to. I mean we've seen it happen with baseball, right. All along. It's almost, it's almost every year now. Like it's, it's, it goes right, right up to the junk wax era, right? I mean it's that, you know, even like another discussion we had, I, I have that whole bin of cards, they're 1973 to 1979. And I'm looking at some of the values of these cards and what's interesting is a year ago and two years ago they were selling at. Because they don't sell that off on a lot of these cards. And I don't know a lot of the players. So I'm looking at cards that I think Yu-Gi-Oh this, this could grade well. Or, or it looks great or I recognize the name, right? So you know, I'm looking at this card and I'm like, okay, it last sold that $32, right? Or $32, say March or July or August. But then before that it sold for $7 and $8 and $9. So you know, that's not a lot of money. But when you think about it over a two year period, right, it's, it's tripling or 4Xing just, just in that short amount of time for a lot of those players and you're seeing that with baseball. I have to imagine football at some point is going to follow suit. Well, you know the Tony Dorset rookie just set a record in a PSA 10 right. And funny I've got a PSA 2 of that rookie which I really love and I brought it out to my last show and I'm sure it's probably up a little bit and you know I'll make some money on it. I got it cheap and, and but Yu-Gi-Oh I mean 70s football I think there is some opportunity at Roger Starbuck and even years ago I was thinking about buying an LT PSA 10 rookie was at Topps. That's probably tripled since I thought about it. You know the Mario Lemieux Topps. I'm like I gotta get one of these at a couple of grand and it's now like a ten thousand dollar card and that's not recent, that's just been happening over time and that can happen with the right cards and vintage. I'm seeing some of the comments definitely JJ if I could just read this one big Ken, if you don't mind. Definitely less hobby boxes of top tops motif available than a Jerry Rice Rookie PSA 8. But what are you pulling in those hobby boxes? Right? That's the danger of playing that game. You could spend that 1400 and have nothing where you know, if you spend the 350 on the rice rookie and it could 2x at 3x in, in a year or two you at least have that Fleer that car really never going down. Yu-Gi-Oh And I have to say everyone in my group that taught that went in to try to get that to you know, entered that but nobody got selected. Everybody that entered immediately said the same thing. Well if I get it I'm just going to flip it. I'm just going to sell the box. Right. And, and what that, what that tells me is people have no faith that they're going to pull anything out of that box, right. That, that that box is worth way more sealed than opening that box. So really it's just buying the box and try to flip it for I don't know, somebody said 2k, it's a 2k flip here. Somebody in the chat said so. So maybe it is maybe if you're one of the lucky ones that get to the lottery and get Beckett that you can flip that box and make money. But I, I mean I would hope to think I Mean, one of the things I was before, you know, a lot of things changed with the wax. I loved opening cases, Right. I would get a case of, say, the Bowman Chrome U basketball. Right. Just buy the whole case and rip it open. There was so much value in it, especially buying it by the case, because there was case hits and there were so many great cards in there. Right. To open it up. And I really felt like you made a ton of your money back in doing that. I did that with women's soccer. I did that with basketball. We were doing that with football, the Optic football and Donruss football. But I don't think there's any value. The last year we were opening up, we were opening cases, we weren't getting any case hits out of them. And even the cards that were coming out were trying to grade or sell. It was like, oh, my God, I just spent like a thousand dollars on this case, and I've got about $200 worth of value coming out of the box. Yu-Gi-Oh You know, on something like that. And the tops motif, I would ask who's the end collector on that? Right. And when we're looking at the market now, if you want to call it a market or just, let's call it the hobby, and you're looking at these players run up like the Griffey, the Bonds, the Manning, Montana Rice, these guys are collectible. Is Topps motif collectible or are we just in it for the flip? Is it part of this gambling culture that has, you know, entered the hobby? Whereas it's nice to see the, like a Tony Dorset PSA10 go for a record sale because maybe finally the collectors are winning out. You know, the stuff, the cards that we love, the players that we love, we're buying. And that's driving the market. And it's not just about, you know, the big hit and the prospect, which it has been for a long time. And maybe there's, you know, a bit of a shift in the landscape in that sense. But. Yu-Gi-Oh I don't know what you do with the box of tops motif. You know, is that something that's someone building the set and they just love those cards? I don't think so. I think they're just trying to get the big hit, trying to buy the box and flip it, which is fine, too. I mean, if you can make money in this hobby, great. We're trying to make some money in this hobby. Hobby, Yu-Gi-Oh And there's a lane for everybody. Right. We talked about that earlier. So besides who we just mentioned, any other players on Your list that you would, you would think about would be worth looking, looking into. Yu-Gi-Oh I, I think like when I think about football, I think about a guy that it's another one that's right under our nose and he hasn't really exploded yet. Maybe I've seen one or two sales go off, but maybe there's still value in Randy Moss. I mean, Moss is probably the second best wide receiver of all time. Yu-Gi-Oh You know, some of his refractors, Marshall, Fox, probably a top three running back of all time. The first dual threat. I don't think his cards have popped off yet. You know, so think of those guys in football and baseball. Maybe Frank Thomas, I don't know that he's popped off in a way that he could, you know, a little later. Maybe there's still time to get these guys and they're not going to pop yet. But like Pujols and Miguel Cabrera, guys that are peanuts right now, you can buy the refractors for like nothing. Maybe not Pujol's rookie or Cabrera's rookie Refractor, but even, you know, Cabrera's rookies, they're, they're pretty reasonably priced compared to others. But Yu-Gi-Oh like these great, great players that haven't really, that haven't popped off like Kobe and Shaq recently and, and you know, now Manning and of course the goats that have popped off like Brady and, and guys like that. What about players like Elway, Marino, you know, like some of those other quarterbacks, they just, it just, it, it's crazy like just to sit back and think that's, you know, their value. Like you're looking at their cards that you could get for next to nothing compared to all the other, all the other players. Yu-Gi-Oh I think you just have to buy the right cards. I think you have to use your, your data tools to look at some of the price charts to make sure they haven't popped already. And you're buying at the peak, especially in this market. Some cards have Beckett and we haven't even heard about it. But if you feel like the line is still maybe ticked up a little bit and there's still some Runway and you can look at other graphs to see the car, the cards that have popped, the players that have popped. Right. And oh, this guy I think is just as good as that guy, but it hasn't popped yet. Well, you know, maybe that's a guy that you want to get into. Stockton comes to mind for me. Dwyane Wade, I don't think Dwyane Wade's popped yet. I mean, he's right there with, he was like right there with LeBron for a while. Obviously LeBron is, you know, in the goat conversation, but like a top player in the league. Give me one second, Ken. I got a plug in my lap. Okay. Battery is dying. Yu-Gi-Oh I didn't realize it wasn't plugged in. Military Break. Yu-Gi-Oh Military Breaker says he Roberto Clemente underrated card. And I know he said earlier that he, he needed one of those in a PSA one. This is, this is interesting. I'm glad Military Breaker said this. Wade would have popped after his HOF induction. And this is what we're talking about. Military Breaker. And I'm sorry, sorry if we haven't articulated it. Shaq would have popped after his induction. Irish. And you know, like all these guys that have popped recently, Manning, they popped at a certain point in time, for whatever reason, the market came to them, right? So if you look at a list of top 10, top 20 players in each sport, whichever sport you collect, you're gonna find some guys in that top 10 or 20 that haven't popped. Like, some of these other guys that haven't. Their cards have not gone up or had that moment. And Wade is maybe one of them. It's not just that he would have gone up after his HOF induction. We're saying maybe in the next 6, 12, 18, 24 months, he could be the next guy that goes from a, you know, a Refractor to a $20,000 Refractor. Right? Yep. That's what we're saying. And prospecting, right? I mean, when I think of prospecting, right, I'm always, it's always short term because the first few years I got burned on prospecting. So I always said I, I. Football was my lane. I would buy the football cards, right? But the rookie cards. But I'm selling them all before the season starts. Like, even if they're projected to be the best player ever, I'm selling all the cards because I don't know what's going to happen, right? And most of those guys I prospected on and we can go back and look at the 20, 21, 20, 22, 23, right? All, all those rookies and those quarterbacks that, that came out of there, they were, you know, they ended up, most of them being garbage, right? That and, and don't even have starting positions, you know, on their teams out there. So. But now we're talking about prospecting hall of Famers. It's a longer term hold, right? I mean, and especially like for somebody like me that grew up, I was, you know, I remember a lot of these guys in the 70s and the 80s, so I, I have great memories of these. So I don't mind buying these cards and say I have a bunch of Brett Favre cards here in the office, you know, that I, I, they're worth, you know, next to nothing. But again, I used to love to watch the guy play. So I, I don't mind, you know, buying those cards. Yu-Gi-Oh Brett Farbs on my list too. I mean, you just want to find the best cards that you could find of a guy like that. He's got some great Topps Chrome Refractor, right? Yep. He could have a run up at some point in time. We don't know when. I mean you can't predict these things. But the good thing about, you know, we're calling it prospecting on hall of Famers speculating because, you know, prospecting, you think young guy that's just coming into the league. But, but I mean I, I love that title. But if you're speculating on a guy like Farve and you have the right cards, you don't know exactly when it's going to pop. But, but it likely will pop at some point and it has a nice Fleer and even if it doesn't go up like exponentially like some cards have in this market, it could go up, it will likely go up to some extent. Yu-Gi-Oh Favorite sport for you to, I, I, I should, I should word that differently when you go out and look, would you I, and it sounds like you'd rather buy into basketball over baseball and football or baseball over basketball. I think basketball is the most liquid when I'm thinking about show inventory. But I'm always drawn to baseball and that's the sport I know best. So I'd say baseball. I always come home at the end of the show. I'm like, shit, I got 80% baseball again. You know, I'm just like naturally drawn to it. And I'm like, but my plan was to get basketball and football on the showcase. And I'm like buying all this baseball, I generally follow my heart. I'm like, if I like it, someone else is going to like it. And I want to think that the card has upside and I want to know big thing in vintage Ken, you know, you're getting into it now. I appeal is important. So it took me a while to learn what makes a nice looking card in any grade. And I know I'm going to get the right Collectors are going to pay a little bit more of a premium for it. Yep. Yu-Gi-Oh this is a nice segue into you, into the. Give us. Give us the vintage market update. Vintage is strong, man. You saw it at White Plains. You know, you just saw those. Those dealers were moving cards where maybe those guys were sitting around, you know, during the last uptick. I felt they were selling a lot. There was a lot of vintage being sold. I went there on Sunday and I just fell and. And I went there really just to, you know, more for me just to go look at different cards that I'm thinking like I'd like. To. Certain players I'd like to buy into. Right. So now I'm going there and I'm saying, you know what? I want to start looking and I want to see like, is it noticeable the difference between a PSA 2 or a 3 or a 5 or. Or. Or things like that on cards and look at different prices. I did see cards moving. I, I did feel. And you can, you can. You were there too at that show. Did you feel that a lot of that vintage was really. The prices were. Were way over comps or were high or did you feel that the prices were appropriate to the, you know, the, the. The Yu-Gi-Oh appeal of the cards? This is, this is where going out more frequently is helpful. And you touched on it earlier. It's knowing which dealers to go to. I will now walk past dealers at the White Plain Show. I see a lot of the same dealers. Right. Especially if you're regional. I know it's dealers to walk past because I know they're overpriced and it's never going to change that are just way that. There's this one deal there. I one-of-one mention his name. He's got a lot of raw cards, doesn't have a lot of graded, but he sells at graded prices. So he's grading in his mind and he's got out a raw car that, you know, you could probably get for 10 or 15 bucks or it's maybe a $20 card of a hall of Famer and he's got it at a PSA 7 or PSA 8 prices. That's what he thinks it is, right? That's just insane. I'm not going to go to that guy. Well, I don't waste my time. I go right past them and I find some dealers that I know that are fair and they're not just going to give me a deal because I know them, but they're just price fair for everyone. And you stack A few cards and you know, maybe they're a little bit below comps or at comps and you could get them below that number. And they're just pricing cards to move. Whereas some of these guys are pricing cards and they're not pricing to move. I don't know how they're moving cards because they're at every show so they must be moving to someone, but they're not moving to me because I know who they are, what their prices are and I just walk right past. So what, what vintage cards and you talk about players or sport or years. Do you think that part of the market is, is is on the rise or it's surging versus other parts of the vintage market that you think is kind of flat right now? Yu-Gi-Oh I'd say you, you, you mentioned 70s football. I've been looking there a little bit. There's some stars there, some big stars like Tony Dorsett's like the Starbucks, like maybe a Terry Bradshaw where you could get high grade cards still for cheap. You know what I saw at the show the other day, I saw a top 15 player, 20 player for sure, NBA all time, a Moses Malone rookie, 1975 tops and a PSA nine. I almost made a move on it, but I was maxed out. I was there that morning, I had like spent all my cash and I was like this is one more card. I probably would have held that card for a while. But like I see upside like a 75, 70s basketball, high grade. Right. I like to collect the low grade. But when you're talking about cards that maybe have upside down, that haven't quite, that still have room and are still feel reasonable compared to other stuff that's out there, I'd say 70s high grade basketball and football, you know, you can still get a Kareem Abdul Jabbar. His first Lakers card I think is a Topps in a PSA 8 for four or five hundred bucks. Like a nicely centered one, you know, PSA 9 reasonably, somewhat reasonably priced, probably four figures at this point. I'd say those. I'm always looking for low grade 50s and 60s like Kofax, Mantle. I think there's still, they're still just going up and going up, but still not crazy. If you get him in the lower grade with decent Yu-Gi-Oh appeal. And we talked about pre junk wax. Like I feel like early 80s finally has some value. I know you got a lot with some 70s, 60s and 70s in it. I think even now like 82, you know, early 80s like Nolan Ryan's Ricky Henderson's that were just, were worthless two and three years ago now have value and maybe still have some room to grow. 1985 and back. So we talk about like Roger Clemens rookie year, Dwight Good and rookie year, then Topps. You got Mattingly, 83, you got Boggs, Sandberg, Gwynn, and then going back all the hall of Famers in those sets. I think there's some, there's some value or upside there. I just Beckett up the complete 1984 set in a Pandora Every car, every card, the whole complete set in a Pandora And every card looks great. It looks like somebody took it out and they slid them into, you know, so it's hard, it's hard to grade them, right because those are, you know, if they come back a nine at the, I mean you can't even grade them with PSA at this point. So. Fanatics fest. I bought an 84 Ricky Henderson in a PSA 10, right, for like 350 bucks. I'm like, this is the car. I'm just gonna hold for a minute. This card will go up. It's not going to go down. It's only going to go up. It's already over 400 bucks, you know, a month later. So if you could get those. I think there's some. We. Me and my buddy, I'm in a group chat, me and my buddies are buying like 80s PSA 10s five years ago. You know, like third George Brett, like an Topps and Topps George Brett or a Nolan Ryan. And those things have gone through the roof as well. Still get them at a decent price. But Yu-Gi-Oh and I think you're seeing a lot of this stuff come up now. I think a lot of, you know, it's sad to say, I think a lot of these people are dying. A lot of the kids are finding these binders and stuff, you know, at their parents house or things like that. And I just think, I think a lot of that stuff is becoming more and more available now even for me. Even for a guy who doesn't do, you know, like baseball. I don't, I've never done baseball at all. Oh, Connie was the, it was the most baseball I did, right. So. So Yu-Gi-Oh it's, it's interesting for somebody like me who's ending up with all this baseball and, and when, and when I'm finding the football, the 70s or the 80s football, I'm just, I'm just buying it up now. I'm just, you know, those guys too, right? I mean, you Grew up, you know, watching those guys and collecting those guys maybe when you were younger. So I, I think that is a good way to go. And you'll find it, you'll be able to move those cards. And it's, it's, it's like I keep saying, it's. There's a Fleer there that, that I think is. Gives me comfort as a dealer and as a collector. When the junk Wax started, what, 1989. Is that when? Yu-Gi-Oh I'd say most people would say, Yu-Gi-Oh late 80s. Yu-Gi-Oh late 80s. Like 87 was overprinted too. Maybe someone said, I always think like now 85 and earlier it's kind of, it's kind of non junk wax. And then so I, for me, it's like 86 and up is kind of junk. But some people point to like 86. Donruss started the overprinting, maybe 89, Upper Deck. There's a million Griffeys, but it doesn't seem to matter. His PSA10 still like a four or five thousand dollar card and it's a pop. Five thousand. Yu-Gi-Oh that's right. Interesting enough when I go, you know, I tell people what I do and they're always like, oh, I got all, I got all these cards. They're worth a fortune here, come, come with me. Come look at them. And they open the closet and it's like, you know, it's the 91, the 92, and it's the complete set boxes. I mean, these things are not even open. They're in pristine condition. And I'm like, oh, Yu-Gi-Oh no, that's nice. Nice, nice. Yu-Gi-Oh Yu-Gi-Oh Yu-Gi-Oh Late 80s and early 90s. It's like, Yu-Gi-Oh all bets are off. I had a friend tell me, he's like, I'm going back to Texas where my childhood cards. I'm gonna send you some pictures. He's like, I got this Daryl Strawberry. I'm looking on ebay. I think it's valuable. It's like a 1991 Upper Deck. I'm like, no, I'm sorry, but that's not where it's at. Oh, that's funny. Oh, did we, did we hit all our topics tonight? We got the pre junk wax behind the table. The vintage market. Yu-Gi-Oh Yu-Gi-Oh I think, I think we did. You got some comments here. I don't know if you want to address them, but Yu-Gi-Oh I'm gonna jump back up now. We're almost out of time. Yu-Gi-Oh no, not at all. Somebody wants to know if. Oh, did he said. Did Steve say Griffey? Did you say Griffey. I did say Griffey. His market kind of popped. Yu-Gi-Oh Recently. Senior. Junior. Junior. Of course, there's still time if you want to get it on. Senior. Well, I'm telling you, I'm pulling. I see the seniors cards in these, in these 70s cards I'm going through. Bill says Ken is going vintage after the National. Yu-Gi-Oh well, I'm making a change. A lot of 90s inserts of all the big players. Yu-Gi-Oh Bill says 1980s cards are going, going up because Gen X has money to live their childhood. And I always think that about, you know, I. You think that especially like in vintage cards. Right. So people are like, oh, if we're in the 19, you know, I'm collecting the 52 sets and then the 53. And then you start seeing the prices going up because people, they're more in demand. And then people are moving back to the 59 and then 60 and then. Right. And I think what happens is when a certain, you know, certain cards just become hit a certain price, people just fall back. Let's. Let's see what's affordable, let's see what's more affordable. And all of a sudden those start running up too. Right. And I think we saw that a lot with Jordan. Right. Everybody wanted the big push on the 90s inserts. You know, where those were selling for like they. A couple bucks a card right now they're, you know, they're skyrocketing just because it's in demand. Everybody's trying to buy them. Right? Absolutely. And that's why we're. We talked about, like, you get priced out of Jordan, so where's the neck? Where's the money going to go next? That's going to drive up. And, you know, there's opportunities out there to find some of these guys. I'm Talking like top 10, 15 players in each sport. You know that you look at that list, you're like, oh, Yu-Gi-Oh his cards are affordable and they're probably going to some point in time, you know, go up. JG says Marino always has a strong market. Yu-Gi-Oh He was like, you know, what's that from Game of Thrones? The, the. Not the prince that was promised, but the one that never got the throne. Right. Never one-of-one never one-of-one the ring. But I see sports mike2 says Nolan Ryan should be much higher. I can tell you as someone who's watched Nolan Ryan's market closely, his like, early 80s, even late 70s have. Have gone way up. I bought a 19. I bought two. 1979 tops. Nolan Ryan PSA nine about 350. I bought them 10 and, and they are now 750, 800. I sold one. Way too soon. I probably sold it, you know, in the fours. I was just trying to get out of it because again, it was just flat for like two years and now it's finally doubled. I'm holding the other. In fact, I'll have it my showcase this week and I'm finally bringing it out. But Yu-Gi-Oh so he's already had somewhat of a run up, but there's probably still some opportunity there. Yu-Gi-Oh And some cards that I'm going through, like the Nolan Ryan card, I say I want to send that out to grading. Right. Like it's okay if it comes back a nine, right. Or even an eight on some of those. So on some of those cards and getting that news today about psa, I was like, I was putting a stack together of cards that I was even at the 80 price point. Yu-Gi-Oh Yu-Gi-Oh I mean, I mean, why wouldn't I send this at that price point, Right? Yu-Gi-Oh You know, you know, it was interesting at. I was at Fanatics Fest and I saw. Was it cgc? What's the Fanatics grading companies at? CSG or csg? Cs. Csg. Csg. I saw some of their slabs with some vintage cards, thought they looked nice. They look nice enough. I wonder if that's something that. I know some collectors are going to start experimenting there or dealers. I've heard like Mike Baker grading. Some, some dealers and collectors are sending cards there because they're getting them back and it's like it's something. Can you trust the authenticity though, versus, you know, like, like a PSA or a BGS or sgc. I mean, I would feel, especially on vintage and things like that I would feel more comfortable knowing how many fakes there are out there and how many fakes got through psa. Right? Yu-Gi-Oh Yu-Gi-Oh I think though, if you talk about like 70s, you know, Nolan Ryan cards, there's not a lot of fakes out there, right? Yu-Gi-Oh And C and Mike Baker, they've got somewhat of a reputation and especially csg, you know, Fanatics behind it. I. There's money there. I'm sure if something comes back fake, they're gonna make it, right? Yu-Gi-Oh Yu-Gi-Oh But we're not talking about 52 mantles, you know, we're talking about some 70s hall of Famers that maybe have some value in this lab. Might be worth at some point even for me, you know, to send in 20 cards to CS. You see if they move in the showcase. Maybe I'll go with 10 and see if that works and then ramp it up from there. But we need. We need an alternative. So. Yu-Gi-Oh 100 and sports card. The hobby says Mike Baker. Yu-Gi-Oh he used to work for psa, Sepia. Yu-Gi-Oh Yu-Gi-Oh What are you going. When are you going out again, Ken? Where are you going to be and when are you going. Where are you setting up next? So, actually, this weekend, Sunday, I am. I'm sharing a table with my guy Howard here. We're doing the Norwalk show on Sunday and then Mohegan show, Labor Day Weekend, September. Oh, August 30th. My guy Rich, his widowbug cards, his Hamden card show, and then doing Mohegan Sun, Labor Day weekend, September 5th 6th. A weekend off. And then I'm doing Causeway show and then the Philly show. You doing the Philly show? I'm not. I'm doing a local show. I can't do that whole weekend, unfortunately. I want to do the next one. I'm trying to get into the Dallas show in New Jersey in late October. I think I might. That might be the next big one I do, but I'm doing a bunch of locals in the meantime. Yu-Gi-Oh I think that, that I was that, like. Was that the weekend of the. The. The 12th or the 10th? October 31st and the 1st. It might be Halloween. Oh, okay. Yu-Gi-Oh My show in North Haven is October 10th, the Columbus Day weekend. Gotcha. I've got it on my radar. There's a possibility we'll. We'll talk offline. I might be able to do that. Yu-Gi-Oh Yu-Gi-Oh And I think I'm doing Northeast Expo. I may just do Saturday only on September 12th. Yu-Gi-Oh I'm away that weekend, so I one-of-one I one-of-one Yu-Gi-Oh I did pretty well there last time. It was a good show for me. I remember seeing you there. Yu-Gi-Oh Yu-Gi-Oh Yu-Gi-Oh I had a big deal at the end that really made the show for me. So you set up at the local show is what, Long island in New York? Yu-Gi-Oh Long Island, New. Yu-Gi-Oh New York City. Out. Jersey. I'm going to Jersey this weekend. I'll be at the North North Jersey card show on Saturday. And I come out. I did the Enfield show. I'll do Connecticut. I've done, you know, Northeast and Stanford. Tri State. Mostly Tri State. But I want to start branching out. Yu-Gi-Oh I've got four little ones at home, so it makes it a little more difficult to disappear for the whole weekend. But it, but it's. It's in the offing. It'll happen at Some point in time. Yu-Gi-Oh you're gonna. You're gonna get to a point where you'll be like, okay, I'm gonna give up those shows, and then I'm just gonna go away one week in a month. I'm gonna go to Dallas or I'm gonna go to Chicago or Atlanta or. Yu-Gi-Oh Yu-Gi-Oh I'm not there yet, but Yu-Gi-Oh you know. Yu-Gi-Oh Baby steps. Basketball card guy says too many shows these days. Yu-Gi-Oh What do you think about. What do you think of that? Do you think there are too many shows? Like, Bill's here in South Carolina, he can't find a show to go to. And. And here. Here we. We're like a tag sale, you know, Go. You know, I remember people used to get ready to go to tag sale. Right. And used to draw it on the map everywhere you were stopping. And that feels like what the card shows are now, right? That. That you've got six stops on a Saturday because everybody's running a show. Yu-Gi-Oh Yu-Gi-Oh If I'm behind the table, I do. I will complain about too many shows, but if I want to go out and buy and walk a show, I'm like, look at all these options I have. But, Yu-Gi-Oh there's definitely. Definitely a lot of shows, but that just tells me the market's strong and there's opportunity at every show. As you mentioned earlier, you can make a deal at any show at any time, and it can be a game changer for you. Even if it's a small shift in your. In your landscape, Every little bit kind of helps. And counts sports cars the hobby. Considering hosting a show in the East End of Long Island. Is there room on Long island for one more show? The East End? Maybe. I don't know of any shows that are that far east that could be interesting. It'd be a pain in the ass to get out there. Just don't do it in the summer when people are going out to the Hamptons, you got to make sure it's in between. It's off season September to, like, May, and you should be fine out there. Yu-Gi-Oh I love those. I love those Jersey shows. There's a lot of shows in New Jersey that I really, really like. But it just from where I am, I can get up early and get there, you know, pretty easily. But getting home, it's. You know, it. Sometimes it takes me three or four hours to get home just because of traffic. It's just. Yu-Gi-Oh Especially on a weekend. Right. It just becomes insane. Yu-Gi-Oh Even for me, living in New York City, I do a Jersey show. I do a Connecticut show. Coming back into Brooklyn, it's like, Jesus Christ. You know, the morning's one thing, but coming home in the afternoon, basketball cards. The guy says he's gonna do his own show and he's going to take all 40 tables himself. One show, 40 tables, all him, me. A lot of running around. You need somebody to run the door. I'll take one of the tables. Basketball card guy. Just let me know. That'll take another. So now you only got to do 38. Yu-Gi-Oh see, now, now, now he's already down to 36 because we've already taken. I've taken two more. So that's how, that's how this happens, right? Another show is born. There you go. Steve, tell everybody where they can reach out to you if they have any questions. They want to say hello, talk to you, ask you anything. Absolutely. As you know, Ken, I'm on Instagram pretty much every day. I'm either posting content or I'm posting a new card that showed up in the mail. So you can find me on Instagram at SLPC or SL Underscore, PC Underscore. You can also email me and my old handle, throwback sportscards, gmail.com if you want to take it to email. But I'm around and I'm at the shows. I'm always posting my next show as well in my bio on Instagram. So you come out and say hi if you're, you know, in the area. Love to see you. Well, I appreciate you jumping on and, and filling in for, for Zip. My Pulsar Hopefully we'll, we'll get you back on here again. Thanks for having me, Ken. I appreciate it. Zip, hope you're having a good time in Disney World. And Ken, hope to see you soon at the show. Yu-Gi-Oh absolutely. So like I said, I'm gonna be Stanford show. I'm at Stanford Norwalk show on Sunday and I'll be back with a new episode. Sunday. Zip will be back next weekend, we'll be. Or next week we'll be back with another live episode. I don't think. I think we have one more week of preseason before we have to start changing. We have to change from Thursday night to Wednesday night so we don't have to, you know, we don't have to steal all the fans away from Thursday Night Football to do the halftime show. Like a 20 minute edition. Yu-Gi-Oh Yu-Gi-Oh Look, I want to thank everyone for watching, thank everyone for listening. Please, like, if you haven't subscribed, please subscribe and we'll be back next week. Take care. Thanks again. You got it. Ken. Take care of your luck this weekend.