PSA Couldn't Detect It + What Else Are They Missing? + PSA's Biggest Weakness?

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Progressive Casualty Insurance Company and Affiliates Price and Coverage Match limited By state law, Michael Jordan Sports Cards is a Lifestyle Sports Cards and we live now Jeremy Lee in the building and every guess that you ever needed Sports Cards after hours. Keep the hobby heated. Updates homie. Talk like you never seen it. Sports Cards Live and I could ever beat it Sports Cards is a lifestyle Sports cards and we live now. Welcome to another episode of Sports Cards Live with your host Jeremy Lee. What is up everybody? Welcome to episode number 314 of Sports Cards Live. It's Saturday night, May 30, 2026. My name is Jeremy Lee. Guys, we got a fun show in store tonight but first a few announcements. We have the fanatics collect weekly auction ending watch party on the channel here tomorrow night. And if you are looking to sell your vintage collection, Leighton Sheldon, who will be joining us later tonight does offer competitive and transparent valuation and payment process. Would love to speak with you leighton@justcollect.com his company Auction Wire AI is also a proud sponsor here of Sports Cards Live. Use promo code SCL for 60 free days of trial. Guys Mint Inc. Wearing their shirt tonight Mint Inc. Delivers the ultimate hobby experience. From live whatnot streams and auctions to grading breaks. Two full retail locations in the Greater Toronto area. They're buying collections seven days a week. Click the link in the description below. Use promo code SCL5 for 5% off your first purchase. You can shop online anytime worldwide. Shipping Mint Inc. Where collecting comes to life Guys, the front row card show is in Portland June 13th and 14th with 480 tables and then there in Phoenix June 27th and 28th with 600 tables. Visit frontrowcard show.com for more show dates and locations and guys grading is expensive when it's available. Ties up your time, your money and your assets. Get it right with Mr. Minty offering a full line of 100% substance free pre grading supplies, preparation and evaluation services, concierge drop off for PSA and Beckett when they are open for business. All designed to help collectors save time and money in that expensive grading process. And you can meet Mr. Minty in person at shows across the world. For more information go to mrminty.com save 25% off products using promo code SCL25. Happy collecting and keep it minty and guys also Chronosio is the AI powered collection assistant that allows boxes and boxes of cards to be scanned, documented and listed for sale online in just minutes. And it works with sports cards, TCG cards, slabs and even raw cardboard. There are two cat cards to cash bundles available on Walmart.com eBay, Amazon, as well as certain hobby shops that not only include a scanner, software and supplies, but also a one on one one hour enablement session at the time of your choosing. Not only does Kronosia work with you to get you up and running, but they also are there. They're always there to help people manage their cards and sell them online. Go to kronosio.com to learn more. Guys Collector Investor Auctions June 2026 auction preview is now up. It runs from June 4th to the 14th. Visit collector investor auctions.com to register and bid in their upcoming monthly auctions. Guys, this episode is also brought to you by Upper Deck, the Sport Card Expo, Inferno Red Technologies, Comp C and Card Ladder with an affiliate link below. And this show is also available on Spotify, Apple, wherever you get your podcasts. Follow for free, leave a rating or review. We do appreciate a huge thank you as always to all of our viewers and listeners. And as always, your comments and your questions are in play tonight. Please help me in welcoming everybody's new favorite hobby content superstar, Mr. David Chase. What's up buddy? How are you? Welcome back. Good Jeremy, thank you. Good to see you my friend. Oh, it's good to see you too. I feel like I was watching you earlier today. I mean you're all over the place. My guy. You're the Midlife Card Chase episode dropped this morning. We're going to talk a bit about that. A great episode by the way. You and Greg on the Sports Card Clubhouse Network. So great job there guys. The hobby spectrum is up and running. You can now add 10 players to your profile. Seven teams, seven sports Star wars and Disney is added as well. And I got word from the developers that they are now starting to crank out this new feature that I'm very excited about. I think we're going to have that ready by the national. Very exciting. I've been adding cards to my my personal collection account on Instagram J Le Cards, having fun with that, and I'm going to blast a few more cards out probably tomorrow onto the account. Oh, and one more thing I want to mention. Miller and Miller Auctions hobby or channel sponsor. We did a show with them just the other day. I got their catalog in the mail. Their auction ends this Sunday, guys. So check out miller and millerauctions.com they got a great array and mix of various things in here, as you can see. If nothing else, go to the website or to the catalog. They will put you on their mailing list. All right, David, we have so, okay, so here's what's going to happen tonight on the show because we have a. We have a. There is so much to talk about right now. I know there's things that aren't even in the title tonight or the description that I want to talk about, but shortly, Howard Citron from Stub Love Ticket Podcast is going to be joining. We're going to talk tickets, and I'm excited about I haven't talked tickets here on the channel in a few years, so I'm excited to dive into the world of ticket collecting. Leighton Sheldon is going to join us. We're going to talk about really what happens when PSA does what they've done. I don't even know what to call. They have not shut down. They have paused certain service levels. But we're going to talk about what that does. Does that really create a liquidity crunch? Have we handcuffed the hobby? Have they handcuffed the hobby? I think the answer to that is yes, they've handcuffed certain parts of the hobby. But we'll get into that, of course. But I want to kick this one off, David, with talking about the subject that you and Greg actually talked about on the episode of the Midlife Car chase that dropped this morning on the Sports Card Clubhouse channel, of which I'm a partner on. Guys, Go subscribe to the Clubhouse if you have. Not yet. So let's talk about that, David. Greg had a listener or a member of Midlife Nation reach out to him and say, hey, there's a card that I see on ebay. It's a 59 tops. Mickey, actually, why don't we just Bring it up. Why don't we just bring that one right up now and have a look at it. So here's what we're going to do. Here we go. Here we go. So here is the episode. Here's the sports card clubhouse. Everybody go give it a sub. You can see this episode right here on. On the left. It says, is PSA grading altered cards? Did they grade an altered card? This is episode three of the Midlife Card Chase. You can see episode two of the Hangover is here on the far right, titled the Jackie Off. And in the middle, we've got extra innings with Jake and Matt. So in any event, we're going to talk about this episode here, which I implore you all to go watch. And in it, as I said, you guys have talked about specific card. It is this one right here. This is a card that ended on ebay. It's a 59, tops. Mickey Mantle was sold in March of this year. $960 with 33 bids. Looks like a nice Mantle, David. And then Greg also presented this card here. This card actually just sold on ebay by a seller called Sports asset management with 6321 feedback. And this card, I believe, did sell for the full $1600. And here it is here. And we're not gonna. You gotta go watch what the. The midlife card chase. But here's the back of the card that sold in March. You can see all sorts of staining. And here's the back of the card that just sold. And you see some light staining. I'm just gonna cut to the chase at the end of the, no pun intended, cutting to the chase. But what ended up happening was, was Greg did a great job of illustrating how these are actually the same two card. This card is. These two cards are the same card. Somebody bought this card on ebay in March for 960. Must have cracked it out, took it to the spa, gave it a rub down, soaked it in the. In the, in the hot tub for a little while, and came out with this card here. And as you can see, as you guys. And you guys pointed this out nicely, David, there's even what may or may not be paper loss, but definitely some. Some surface damage where some of the text you can't even see anymore. Looks like they tried a little bit too hard to clean up the stain on the back of that card. And so this, this brings us to certain issues. I think one of the most important issues for me is, and you guys talked about this, David, how many cards in Our collections were not caught by the grading company, in this case, PSA, who has 90% of the market. So that PSA was not able to catch. And how many of our cards have gone through this with us not knowing? And even if they were, if we do have those cards and we were to be able to figure it out, would we be covered by PSA's guarantee that cards are, you know, unaltered and is this an alteration? So, David, I've gone on for a while. What are your thoughts on that? And I mean, you shared a lot on the show, so we don't have to revisit everything you talked about on the show. But, but give us just your overview and then I have an additional piece of information. Yeah, I mean, there's so many different aspects of that conversation that this goes into, which was first of all was just the shock that it was the same card, but man, it's a brand new grade. This was just graded very, very recently. So you can see that 1, 5, 9 number. I mean, it's probably as that may be one of the newest numbers you've seen on a certified. And what that's telling us is that they, at least in this situation, but I'm assuming it happens a lot more, they cannot tell when a card has had a bath, and that's with today's technology, the newest technology in their grading. So how should we feel about that? Should we feel like we should be annoyed? Does PSA need to fix this or do we need to calm down on our standards? Because so many of our cards are like this. There's just so many different ways you can think about this scenario. But obviously a lot of cards that are in slabs right now have had a bath and we do. We cannot tell which ones have and which ones have not, and neither can psa. A lot of them have had a bath and probably a lot of them have also gone for the old haircut, the old trim, which I think is another thing that there are obviously trim cards and slabs. Which brings you to what, you know, the security we feel in our cards being slabbed by psa. Is that just. Is it, is it, is it a trick? Is it, is it just not really true? Are we all being fooled? And listen, we have to give credit where credit's due. They don't want this to happen. They're just not good enough at identifying it enough of the time. And yes, we are going to only hear about the mistakes that they make. And, you know, what is that error rate? I don't know. But the fact that we see it over and over and over again does, I think, is. Gives us valid cause for concern. Now I do want to shout something out. I saw on Twitter today Nat Turner, what I guess CEO, president, chairman, whatever, he is at PSA running the company. He actually had a call for action on there today saying, hey, and this has nothing to do with this. It was different. If anyone knows of it, he said, if anyone knows of any counterfeit serial numbered cards on ebay or anywhere else, let me know. So they're out there looking for. I think they want to fix these things as soon as they can. And I think that is great. And I also, I personally don't expect them to be perfect. I don't. I accept, I accept that not all cards in my collection are what I think they are. And that's, you know, I don't know how many there are in my collection that are not as pure as I would like them to be, but there are certainly several. I have to think, is that two and a half percent, is it 10%? Is it 20%? I hope it's closer to under five and more. Closer to one would be nice. If only a couple of my two or 300 slabs had gone to the spa for the treatment. Maybe gone to get a haircut after a little trim job. I hope that it's just, just a couple and not dozens of them. That would be heartbreaking. And then because I probably didn't grade any of them myself, other people paid my insurance premiums. I would take advantage of those and make my claims and, and get paid out current value as if those cards were in that grade. And then I just go buy, you know, other cards, I suppose. So what do you, what do you think of all that, David? And then I'm gonna share one piece more piece of information. Yeah, I mean, I agree with that. I, I actually think it's a lot more than what you, what you think, or at least in mice labs. I think that mostly because I really like high. I appeal low grades. And I have a feeling those cards are probably used the most in these scenarios. I mean, I don't know, maybe sevens are used for that. But I feel like those newer. There's not very many new grades that are a seven. Most of these newer grades are lower grades. They're all ones, twos, threes and fours for newer grades. And those are the ones that I really like. And this is one of those kind of things that's scary to me. It's scary, but like, there's A lot of people that made comments on this video, and I'm just trying to kind of, you know, comprehend everything that's been. That's been said in this situation. And there's a lot of people that bring up the topic. And I'm just saying this as a devil's advocate because it's fun to bring up every side is that let's say it's just water and it's not detectable. Let's say PSA cannot detect water that's being a little bit sprayed on there. I mean, is that something that we really should care about if it's 100% not detectable? I'm not, I'm not agreeing with that. I'm just giving that point that that's been said to me at least four or five different times since that video came out. Should we care if we. It's like what you don't know can hurt you. If a tree falls in a forest, all that. Like, if you don't know, who cares that there's no treatment? I mean, is a spray of water treatment just like a rag is treatment? Leave that to decide for yourself, I suppose. Tough to say. Tough to say. Hard. Yeah. But. But then I think about the whole thing about like, you know, if you don't know, if we don't know our cards have been. Have been soaked, bleached, whatever stains removed. I just don't want some basement card doctor fondling my cards. Call me crazy, I just don't want that to have happened. I don't want no, you know, perverted massage therapist touching my cards, some freak of a hair stylist trimming my cards. I don't want that on my cards. I have the right to not want that. Now, I saw on the video on, on the clubhouse, on the midlife card chase, I saw in the video that there were some comments like, you know, there could. There's all sorts of plausible explanations for what's going on here as far as did. Okay, because for example, let's bring it back up for a moment here. We have sold by Probestein the first time in March, purchased by somebody and now sold by Sports Asset Management. Well, the immediate question that comes into play is, is Sports Asset Management a card doctor? That that's where your head goes. But then you think, well, maybe not. Someone could have bought it from Probe scene, cleaned it, sold it at a card show, sold it in a lot, who knows? And then that person moved it to Sports Asset Management. So I thought to myself, and I don't, I don't know if you guys covered this today, Dave, but I thought to myself, let's go back to the probe scene auction, and let's look at the bids and let's, let's look at the winning bidder on March 25, whatever that code means, with 6321 feedback. Really interesting. Let's go to the, let's go to the seller. 6321 feedback. Great job, Jeremy. You're right. So that tells me, I mean, with, you know, a 1 in maybe 10,000 chance that I'm wrong here, that Sports Asset Management, whoever they are, I'm glad I don't know who they are. I just don't want to know who they are. And if they write, write me and say, hey, I'm you. I'm. Now I say, well, too bad. I mean, so sorry, but this is, this is what I'm seeing. So I'm led to believe with quite certainty that Sports Asset Management is the, is them or their, their associates who work with them are the car doctor. Because they, it does seem like that's the buyer. Right? Right. David, 6001 feedback there. You can't say 100%, but it's a very, very likely. With that kind of a rating that seems quite, to be quite likely to be the case. So, so that, then you think to yourself, well, what else do they sell? And you go to their sellers, other items, and you know what? Honestly, you don't see a lot there. There's one, it's not coming up fast enough. So I'll let people go to that themselves, but there's, there's not a lot there to go on. I don't think there's a lot of other cards in their account now. But you need to watch out for this seller. And I'm not saying that they did it. I can't really say that I don't know for sure. But I, I'm willing for myself to think that, yes, they did it. And I would be very, very careful buying any cards from this seller in the future. And if the seller is listening, watching, or comes across this, reach out and let me know that I, I missed the, that I missed the, the point here and that I'm wrong. I mean, I'm happy, I'm happy to be wrong and retract my comment and issue an apology if that's the case. So I wanted to share that with you. David Chat. We're gonna go to Comments now and we're gonna see. And we haven't done them yet. So there's a bunch. So bear with me, everybody, as we run through and say hi to everybody. David, are you good? You good for me to go through this? I want to say one last thing about that episode that we didn't talk about because it happened after that aired, is that Greg did feel like he wanted to report it and he sent a direct message just from like Twitter, which everybody can. Or X or. Or maybe it was Instagram, whatever these kids use. And they send it to Ryan and Ryan Hogue and to Nat Turner and sent it to both of them. Ryan Hogue did respond back and said, we take this very seriously. Please send me what you have sent it to him. He said, wow, that looks like something. He said, we're bringing that to our department that looks at fraud or different things like that. So. So that happened on Wednesday. So I looked this morning and the certification number still was active, but that should happen on Wednesday. Good on PSA for responding and reacting. They don't want this out there. They don't want us talking about this. They don't want listen. And they need to use this for training. They need to bring this internal. They are growing fast. They can't keep up. Obviously, the more they grow, the harder it's going to be to be consistent. And so, I mean, listen, as the hobby, I want to help them do better. And I. Not, not me specifically, but everybody. So thank you, Greg, for pointing that out. Hopefully they can come up with a way to defend against it because they obviously don't have the technology to do it. A lot of people think they have all sorts of weird technology going on. They. I don't think they do. They had. Gentlemen. They obviously don't use it consistently or they would have caught this. There's obviously no fingerprinting technology or if they have it, it's no good or they would have caught this. So they need to invest some of that 200 million into improving their technology or starting from scratch. Maybe they already have. Who knows? All right, let's say hello to Chris C. In the house. He says all slabs and no raw cards makes Jack a doll collector. Good evening. Kevin Hawthorne, Bill Betts, Jacob Doll Gold, Our Confluence Sports Cards. Hello, Laura. Always good to see you. Yes, Gold, Our rest in peace. CL Claude Lemieux, great hockey player who passed away prematurely here at the age of 60 just the other day. And congratulations to the Carolina Hurricanes and the loss and the Vegas Golden Knights for making the Stanley Cup Final, which does start on Tuesday. And we are in the fourth quarter of the spurs and Thunder, game seven. Very exciting. I'm sure a bunch of you have that on the TV as well. Situational. What's going on? Yankees fan. Good evening. Jayhawker in the house. There's my guy, Jesse. Double O's card guy E105 is with us as well. Hello. Ben Burrows. Collector Charles Piccolina, the cat, Willie T. What's going on? Baseball card curmudgeon, everybody. There is Orlando, there is Rob Star. We got Skeppy here. I'm wearing the mint ink shirt tonight. Mr. Skeppy. John NP. Good evening to you. JT's vintage. I hope you're having a good weekend, sir. Absolutely. David Chase is the hottest person in the hobby. I love it. You know it. You know it. No, he is. Hey, Collector Charles. David, the most fabulous hobbyist on YouTube. Jeff's car journey said great episode on Mid with Midlife today. David. Very well. Bill Betts. Hello. Mookie Chilson is in the house. What up, Mook? Double V Cards is here. Let's go, Jordan. Mookie says Jeremy's clubhouse cross pollination is so good, it's making bumblebees blush. Iowa. Hey, so far I got David and Joe Perota. Thank you for that. And of course the partners over at the clubhouse and the contributors. What a great. What a great platform that is. Loving it. 90s auctions. Josh is here. He'll be on with us later on tonight. Cut to the Chase. Should be another podcast that David is on. Absolutely. Good one right there. West 238 is here. We got Brian. High Pop Professor. If you haven't watched Craig's video with David Chase, you need to. He is right. Michael Raider. What is shaken? Bill Betts. Appreciate the contribution a card. Got a massage. I think I said a lot more than that. Just there. Larry Gitlin is with us. What's up, Larry? What is going on? Rob Star says the fresh grade still doesn't warrant the four with that back issue. That's a good point, David. And you talked about that with Greg. The card is not even a foreigner. They didn't increase the. The technical grade. They decreased it somehow. PSA missed that when they were grading the card. But. But that's. That's what. That's just what it is. Absolutely. Jesse says how could they tell him 30 seconds with the card in hand? Fair question. Collector Charles says this is why I can't trust psa. Dino La Cobo is with us. Absolutely. Skill issue for PSA says Brian. Vintage card collector says a lot of cards having a Bath is a massive overstatement. A lot of. So he doesn't think a lot of cards are having a bath, I guess. Vintage car collector. You think you. You don't think it's. It's a big problem or what? What do you think there? I'm not sure. Mookie says, my favorite part is the seller literally got the same grade again and doubled the list price. And it looks like it sold. Although who knows if that's a real sale. We just don't know. Piccolina the cat says it's better to take a card for a bath and a massage than taking you to the cleaners with some cards. Okay. Oh, you want to. If I fix it, it's an understatement. Maybe that's what he meant, not an overstatement. Skeppy says people often ask how prices get manipulated. Here's one of the ways. Very good point. The Gem Mint D Gen says the tools and technology don't mean it mean a thing if PSA isn't using them or if they're just not good or if the. Or if. Or if the called car doctors are too good. Situational says the paper loss on the back should make the new grade A1. Joe Perot says, oh wow. Hey, look at this tub. Want to take a bath? Let's go. Jordan says, how do you even detect water? Yankees fan says grading at PSA isn't has been broken for years. Jordan, let's go. Jordan says it isn't always water. Michael Raider says only collectors care. Flippers do not. Good point. Really good point by Michael Raider. Flippers don't care. All they care about is the number on the grade. Just the technical grade. That's all they care about. Dave Snyder says David, what do you think the impact of the latest PSA development in the eyes of regulators merges acquisition. Let's we'll table that one for now. I will star that for later. Thank you David Snider for the contribution. Chris says, thank you ladies and gentlemen for coming and have a good night. Thank you very much. Charles says Jay Lee doesn't like card fondlers. Very true. The rate of Rabbi David Spinrad says the tell is when the brightness of the card mismatches the corners and the edges. Good point. Confluences who had Jeremy saying fondle on their sports cards live bingo card tonight? Good question. I certainly didn't. Area 51. What if the card back in 71 was left out in the rain? Good question. Chris says I only fondle action packed. I want the real thing. Mookie is calling me Colombo. Justin Hurst from Rabbit Hole Auctions in the house. What's up Justin? Good to see you. Hello to Nick Chen. Congratulations on your nephew's graduation. It's calling me a mountie for cards. Jesse Walker. Hello. Hello. Situational so that ebay seller has done this 6,000 times? No, I would say. I would say not even close because you look at their inventory, a lot of it is like modern and not even vintage. So I don't think that's the case. Maybe they're just getting into into misleading their customers. My sports card horde says doctoring cards takes time. Can only post one at a time as the next one dries out. Unless you have a bunch going on, you could have a factory. Wow. Lots of great comments here everybody. This is as heated as I've seen. Jay Lee says Charles. Oh Charles, you missed some episodes then brother. You've missed a few. E105 says a majority of high grade pre war were sought were soaked out of scrapbooks that is almost universally accepted in the hobby. Kurt's Juice and Corner Crease tools should be universally rejected. Orlando says I'm glad that Greg reported that card. Absolutely. My sports card horde says looking at those two mantles on the show earlier today I like the pre soaked version better. It's all about color. I agree David. The original color on the front was way more vibrant than the than the bleach soaked out hot tub soaked card for sure Skeppy David, I replied to you and Greg's question back to me. Did that make sense? Maybe elaborate it maybe later we will Greg A day hello to Texas. Hello hello. Welcome to the show. Jim Sholey this is why pinholes are cool. They are what they are. Absolutely. Carl is with us from Oz. What up Carl? Jimmy Kirby. Thank you for being here. Eric Pugh what are hottest names this month? Jackie's Always Hot Eric Always Hot JT Hope everyone saw David Chase kill it as our umpire on pre war card clash. Check out that episode on JT's vintage card room. Everybody bring in SGC guys for vintage says let's go Jordan. Anthony Nelson says there is a difficult tension in the hobby between the I appeal movement and wanting beautiful cards but then thinking people will not try to profit or on that desire by the spa juicing. Good point Wemby. What's the score in the game now? I'm going to look at my phone here. Oh boy. Well, there's still time but the Spurs I hope. Hey spoiler alert. Plug your ears. 7 minutes. 7 minutes 40 seconds left in the fourth quarter. Spurs up by eight. Wemby and the young guys looking good. James Fertitta. David Chase is the Hobby Champ because he's full of joy and positivity. Not like everyone looking for conspiracy theories or with no fat. Yeah, David Chase is a breath of fresh air. Let's be real. Luke Browning says PSA grading has proven to be broken since their very first card, the Wagner, which wasn't the first card graded. It just got the first serial number. Hobby Champ says if a card isn't trimmed or recolored, I couldn't care less if foreign things that aren't supposed to be on it are removed. There's no such thing as the sanctity of card damage. The only thing about that, Hobby Champs, I think we're entitled to our own decisions on that. How you. What you accept for your cards is on you. And it might not be the same with everybody, but I think that's okay. Professor, good evening to you and welcome on spot. Hello. Oh, I'm glad you're here. Welcome. Oh, sorry. On card sports. Welcome to the show. Good to see you. Hey, guys, Mike Petty is here. What's up, Mr. Petty? Two cards for every two certs for every card. He says situational. Wemby got his fifth foul. Oh, Chris C. Loves his Knicks. But Wemby, what can I say? Okay, we're at the bottom of the comments. I think they're looking a little bit weird to me, actually. I think we're at the bottom of the comments now. So. David. Lots there. Guys, we are going to now shift things over. We're gonna bring on Howard. We're gonna talk some tickets for a little while, and then Leighton's gonna come on. We're gonna. David's sticking around. Howard's gonna come on. Layton's gonna join in about half an hour so, maybe 45. And then we're going to keep on. Then we're going to keep on going. But I would like everybody. Howard, give me a thumbs up if you're ready. He's ready, guys. Howard, I don't know if I'm going to butcher your last name, but here we go. Please, everybody, welcome Howard Citron. Welcome, Howard. How are you? You didn't butcher it at all, man. It was great. How are you, Jeremy? I'm thrilled to be on. It's good to have you. Howard. Please say hello to David Chase. David Chase, I gotta tell you, man, I've been watching your content. You are fire hot. I enjoy the content. Just so good. I told Jeremy, this morning. Unbelievable. Unbelievable. You are the man. I knew I liked you, Howard. Thank you. No, thank you so much. I really appreciate that. That's so nice to say. That's a very kind of you, Howard. And, you know, interestingly, usually in this for, for the featured guests, or often I would just be you and me. But, Howard, I know that you really enjoy David. You. You wanted to have him on with us, and I'm happy to do that. We got a lot to talk about, so I'm going to kick off this conversation with you by asking you, Howard, what do you love? And we're going to get into more, so just bear with me in this order. What do you love about tickets and ticket collecting? And let's start with that. So, Jeremy, I got to tell you, you know, ticket collecting is. It really brings you so close to the game, so close to the concert, so close to the event. And, and these tickets, you know, they're representatives of, you know, pieces of history. So you go ahead and, you know, you're collecting debut tickets. So people's first games, first appearances, maybe their last games, last appearances, first concerts, last concerts, presidential inaugurations. I mean, the list goes on and on. So these are really small tokens of history, and they tell a story. And, you know, look, we're sitting here talking about cards and memorabilia. It's all about the stories. And collecting tickets really brings that story to life. So that's why I'm so passionate about it. I appreciate, I appreciate the nice, succinct answer there. Now, cards, you're not exclusively tickets. You're also a card guy, I believe. How long have you been in the hobby? Tell us a little bit about your card collecting history. Yeah, so I've been in cards. I'm 52 years old. I've been collecting cards since I'm, you know, probably six, seven years old. The first time I went to The national was 1989, and I've missed a few here and there, but I go to the national every year. I love collecting cards. You know, I was at the Strongsville show looking for tickets, but I came home with cards. I came home with one ticket, but I came home with some cards. So I love card collecting. I think cards pair so well with tickets and tickets pair well with cards. I mean, what would be better than to have Michael Jordan's 86 FLIR rookie card or star basketball card and a debut ticket to his first game ever? Really tells a phenomenal story and really is super collectible. So, yeah, I love it all. I love Autographs. I love memorabilia, I love cards. But I'm really, you know, kind of, I don't know, addicted to tickets right now. David, what about you? Do you, I know you're obviously a card guy, David, and me too, but do you have a ticket collection that you're proud of? Do you, do you, do you keep your stubs from games and concerts you've been to? I mean, I've never purchased a ticket of a show I did not go to or a game that I didn't go to, but I have books of my concert tickets and sports tickets, literally multiple books of them. Credible and that. And I've been to a lot of concerts and a lot of sporting events. And so for me it's a, it's a memory that I love. And I sometimes put little like post it notes on them of like, if something special happened a lot of times something special in my life or if it was a game that had something special also. So, yeah, I love tickets. I just haven't gone the route yet of purchasing ones that I haven't been to. But I mean, I want to talk about that. So Howard, how does it, how do you feel seeing David showing his ticket collection right there? And I mean, I'll. I've got mine ready to go as well that I've dug out of the basement and put in some semi ridges. What is, what is it like for a ticket guy to see these two card guys with their tickets handy? I got to tell you guys, the crossover that we are seeing in the ticket world from card collectors moving into tickets has been massive. Just massive. You know, I don't think any card collectors are going to give up cards for tickets. That's not what it's all about. But I think a lot of card collectors are saying, well, tickets are really hot right now. I still think probably ground floor, first floor, second floor. But if they could go ahead and spend some money on tickets, they're doing it. You know, cards are so expensive right now. They're. They're just climbing. They're fire hot. And some, I think people are priced out of some of the things that they want. So instead of going out and getting maybe the Star Jordan card, they're going ahead and buying, you know, some kind of collection of maybe Michael Jordan tickets, a slam dunk contest, an all star game, some memorable moment from Michael's career, and they're going and purchasing those. So we're seeing a big crossover of card collectors moving into the ticket space. Let's talk a bit about the difference between collecting tickets from events, concerts, shows that you were at versus those that you were not at. I have, I personally have a bit of a connection to these tickets. These were my tickets. These were my, I was at these events. How do you, how do you approach that distinction, that polarity? So I'm completely over the idea that you can't collect tickets to things that you didn't go to. You know, I mean, look, David, you're a humongous, a 48 Leaf card fan, right? Did you see any of those players play those games? No, no. They're so passionate about Joe DiMaggio and those leaf cards. And Jeremy, you're collecting Joe Jackson cards and, you know, going ahead and giving up most of, you know, your entire collection to get one of the greatest cracker jack cards of all time. You never saw these guys play. Well, you know, I may not have seen Jackie Robinson break the color barrier in 1947 for the Brooklyn Dodgers, but I gotta tell you, that's a hell of a historical moment that if I could have that ticket, that's a piece of history, that's a piece of Americana and I want on that. And it doesn't matter that I was there or I wasn't there. Kirk Gibson's World Series home run, where, you know, the place goes crazy. Joe Carter's walk off home run. Famous goals, famous moments in sports. I may not have been there. I watched him on tv, Joe Montana, the catch to Dwight Clark. I wasn't there. But heck, I'd love a ticket from it or, or a program from it or something that's momentous. That brings me back to that day. So the whole idea that I didn't go to these games doesn't matter at all. The ticket collectors and I, I kind of think it's just kind of a benign issue. Sometimes people say, well, I wasn't at the event. I said, yeah, but so what? And I think that's what it is. So what? You know, that's. I like the response. And in a way, in a way, ticket collecting has the advantage that a lot of people have, have tickets or have had tickets and have dropped them on the floor on their way out of the, out of the venue after the event was over. Not thinking twice about it. And that's, you know, a sort of, a little bit sad, I suppose, but it really just sort of is what it is. That's the way, that's just the way it goes. Right? You didn't really keep the, like here. The vintage card room says, wish I kept all My tickets to the 200 plus concert I went to over the years don't have a single one. Ugh. Like, he's feeling it. JT's feeling it right now, and I feel for him because I wish I had all the ones that I didn't keep. Luckily, I did keep some, but I didn't keep all of them, and I kind of wish that I did. So I think that's an interesting perspective. That's a question that I've had for a long time asking a guy who's really focused on them. I think that if I. If I were to be a big ticket collector, the. The tickets that I was at events I was at would have a. A special meaning. A different. You know what? Let me rephrase it. A different story. A Jeremy story versus a story of the game and the event. So how about you, David? Do you see yourself ever getting into collecting tickets from events you weren't at? Like, Howard just gave a pretty compelling reason for it. Do you see yourself ever moving that direction without knowing the prices of these tickets? Because, man, I feel like that would be pretty expensive to get Jackie Robinson breaking the color barrier. But it is intriguing. Yes. I think that would be very cool to have those special moment tickets. I mean, man, I'm just trying to think of like some of those. Right, or like the Babe Ruth Called Shot game. Right. Or the Miracle on Ice, right? Like just all these amazing pieces of history. I could see myself getting into them now. I feel like, I mean, are those hundreds of thousands of dollars for a ticket like that? How much? I have no idea. Like, I literally. I don't know the market. David, you brought two of the best. You really did, you know. Two of the best. The Called Shot is one of the most collectible tickets out there. I mean, it's. It's Babe Ruth's. One of the finest, most memorable moments in World Series history. So it's actually, it's not a really rare ticket, but it's incredibly popular because everyone wants it. And it's also the perfect entry level ticket. So it sells for. If it's a stub, not a full ticket. So one that actually been used to go into the game and it's in average a PSA1, maybe a PSA2. It probably sells for around $10,000. That miracle on Ice ticket, I'd say it's probably a $5,000 ticket. So you brought up two that are incredibly popular and incredibly collectible. And the other thing, I'd say, Jeremy briefly, because that comment I think was spot on. Tickets were not meant to be collected. They were not meant to be saved. They were meant to be discarded. So the fact that people were smart enough or savvy enough or had such a connection to the game to keep those tickets, that's what makes them so rare and so scarce. They are much, much rarer than, than sports cards. They really are. Yeah, I think that goes without saying. Sports cards are printed in volume and they're not printed for 15, 000 people going to an event or 60 at a, at a football game. They are printed for, for mass distribution across nations. So it's a whole, it's a totally different product. And we are not here to compare them against each other. At least I'm not here to compare them. No one's ever going to change my love for sports cards. Regardless of the fact that I wasn't at, I didn't see many of these players play. I like to collect the history of it through cards. That's my choice. That's what I like to collect. And I'm certainly not against tickets. That said, I, I don't want to compare them, but I want to draw analogies and similarities between the two of them, the two different collectible types. Before we do that, you have a podcast, it's called Stub Love. How long has that been going? Where can people find it? So it's actually called Stublov Live. I went ahead and it was an Instagram channel. Loved it on Instagram. And people said, well, stop doing it on Instagram because YouTube's so much more user friendly. So it's stublov live on YouTube but I still run it on Instagram on my channel there. Stub Love. L U V and the love is luv. So it's Stublov live on, on YouTube or Stub Love on IG. Awesome. Thank you for that. Now also, you are starting up an auction company called Front Row Auctions. And this auction company, so I'm clear, is tickets exclusive? Is it only for tickets? Right now it is, yes. It's ticket centric. It's ticket focused. Ticket only. Right now. We're really excited. Our first auction is September 17th. It's going to run through October 14th. Get all your consignments in. We want your tickets. Reach out to me. We want your good stuff, we want your middle of the road stuff and we'll even take your not so good stuff. We want anything that we can get our hands on and it's been great. Overwhelming response. People are so excited. So we're very pleased. First auction runs when September 17th through October. There you go. So check guys, you can check that out. You can see Howard's new auction auction house, which is focusing on tickets. I think it's a really cool niche for you to get into, Howard, so wish you all the best with that venture. And I think you're going to be bringing a great service to your to the ticket community. So kudos and congratulations on that. Thanks for tuning in and being a part of the sports cards live community. Don't forget to like subscribe and most of all, keep collecting more great content to come. Sports cards is a lifestyle.