Rise of Non-Sports, Wagner Sale, Cleveland & Yordan Triple Crown E399

We the ones still showing up holding hands when time show up for your community with be the people we connect community organizations with the millions of Americans ready to do their part tap to learn more. All right. Good morning, Hobby Verse. It is Saturday morning, 11am Eastern, 8am Pacific, and it's time for another edition of hobby hotline. Episode 399 to be exact. Episode 400 will be next week and Card Ladder is going to give away. Thanks to them, we can give away two pro yearly memberships next week. I haven't, we haven't figured out how we're going to give them away but we, we have the ability to thanks to Card Ladder, Yu-Gi-Oh joining me today. Yu-Gi-Oh man, there's a lot of knowledge I'm not even including myself on the screen today, but Yu-Gi-Oh to the right of me on screen, Yu-Gi-Oh Mr. Uncle Rich Klein. Morning, sir. Good morning, Mr. And as, as I always say morning and as I always say, only Blue Ice on the screen, not, not literally. Dr. James Beckett. Morning, sir. Good morning. All right, let's get, let's get some other mornings out of the way. Mad City brew. Yank me card Steve. Good morning. Frank Gastella. Good morning. Phil Pierce in Oklahoma. Good morning, Pastor Craig. Orlando's in the house. Good morning. Five five file. Five ball. Long time watcher. Always glad to see him. Glad to see everybody. Larry, Kit lean. All right, guys, the first topic I have is, you know, we, we, we're going to talk about it. On today's episode. We see what the, you know, the, the sports card market has done and including an onus, an honest Wagner that almost brought $6 million last night. But it's been gradual. But you know, I think more people are, are taking notice. I'm gonna put up some examples here guys, real quick and then we can get to talking about it. Yu-Gi-Oh one of the most famous, it's not recent, but one of the most famous cards, non sports cards that sold was this. And again, I, I don't know about Magic the Gathering, guys. I don't want to claim to, to know, but this is a, what's called a Black Lotus. Yu-Gi-Oh it's, it's, as you can see, it's graded CGC 10. This wasn't via auction, but reportedly via private sale a couple years ago in 2024, this brought $3 million. Luke Skywalker, what's considered his first appearance or non sports rookie at Heritage In May, a pop nine. This was a gem in ten brought $687,000. And the more recent one, guys, is 1966 Donruss Yes. Donruss existed in the 60s. Little known. This is Spider Man's first appearance on cardboard. And this card recently sold for 175,000. And here's the thing about this particular card, Dr. Jim and Rich, the previous sales were like nowhere near this level. Like this thing just jumped. I think somebody told me like the, the, the, the sale before this one was 10K. So this thing just 7, you know, whatever percentages, 175 times what the one before it brought just to me it's, it's sort of crazy stuff. Do you, do you think is this just related to, you know what the sports car? Is it just a natural reaction to the sports card market? Do you remember when soccer cards exploded? One of the reasons soccer cards exploded was, and I'm going to put this in air quotes, everything was a rookie card. These are very early, you could even consider them rookie cards in many cases of the people and as such that part of the world has translated to non sports. I know our local legend Brian Gray, who spouts a lot of things, but he's usually pretty much dead on. A couple years ago talked about how the world of non sports was remarkably underpriced. And if you really pay attention to Brian, you'll notice he was right about that. He, he's usually right when he spouts off about something. And two years ago he was telling people to buy non sports. I bet you a lot of people wish they had followed his advice now. Yu-Gi-Oh Dr. Jim, I mean do, is this something that interests you? Are you like strictly, you know, baseball? Do you, do you keep an Yu-Gi-Oh on this stuff? And why, why do you think? You know, at the national guys too real quick. Dr. Jim, like there was a 2021, I think it's Star wars masterpiece box. So it's only five years old and those boxes were bringing $28,000 a piece and selling. I mean anyone can mark whatever for whatever box you want or card but they were selling at that price level. So to me it's, you know, I don't know, it's crazy. But go ahead. Dr. Jim well just, it's, you said is this natural? I don't think it's natural, but it's a situation where collectors are out there thinking is certain prices go up of things they want. They think what else is out there that hasn't had a price move yet? Well now the non sport is really moving. These are extremely recognizable icons, you know, that are getting the big prices whether they're superheroes or cartoon figures or TV situations and movies. So. But instantly recognizable and even a non any even somebody is not interested in sports could still get a kick out of having an early card of one of those superheroes. So it's just the price takes my breath away. Yes, I'm an observer, it's not in my lane, but I would say it doesn't affect me. Except that everything affects everything. People are always looking for what should I've got some money, what should I buy some of these sports New record high prices in the millions make non sports stuff look cheap. But now non sports stuff does not look cheap anymore. Yu-Gi-Oh it's crazy. I have go ahead Rich, because I, I'm gonna leave and come back because apparently I'm frozen. One of the other things of non sports is and I'm gonna say this is part of the Fanatics 10x of the world, they have had remarkable success. They've not done a lot of non sports in recent years, but they've been very selective and very good about the products they do. And their products have a lot of the modern twists which really drive up the value of today's cards. And if today's values get driven up, you go back to yesterday and all of a sudden there's now things in yesterday. I remember last year when SpongeBob SquarePants cards came out. It was perfectly tailored to the kids 30 years ago who started watching that show. Perfectly tailored to it. And Those boxes were 5, $600 on contact. All of a sudden, if you're paying that much money for spongebob, you're certainly going to pay that much money, if not more for legends like Mickey Mouse and Spider Man. Yu-Gi-Oh This comment from Larry Gitlin, he's saying as a former comic book collector, the cards, the cards really don't do nothing to comic and guys, I think we all know like the comic books, you know, those are, you know, first series or first issues of many of the the legendary Batman, Spider Man. I don't have to tell you guys or the chat room bring millions of dollars too. You know, Larry saying, hey, as a comic book guy, I don't care about necessarily Spider Man's 1966 Donruss. I might care more about Spider Man's first appearance in a comic book. I, I, I used to do comic books as a kid. I got into them when I had my store in the 90s. We did start stocking some. I remember the Teenage Ninja Turtles at the time were huge. And hiring fast is one thing. Hiring fast and staying compliant across different countries is where things get tricky. And it's exactly the problem pebble solves. If you've ever tried to do it on your own, you know, the paperwork, the approvals, the regulatory blind spots you. It can take months just to get someone started. Pebble makes global hiring simple through embedded compliance and Yu-Gi-Oh driven workflows. Pebble takes the delays and guesswork out of going global so founders and HR leaders can move fast without adding risk. Hire in over 185 countries in minutes, not months. 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But you know, like, even when non sport. John's Frozen again. Okay, John's Frozen. It's something I do dabble in, but I just tend to collect. Yu-Gi-Oh that's true. I think I'm back. You know, Billy Joe, I know this looks like Sylvester Stallone, but that's actually Billy Joel. This is from 1980 Panini smash rock and pop collection. One of Billy's first appearances. Yu-Gi-Oh PSA 8, Yu-Gi-Oh low pop. So I, I do dabble. Here's an Al Pacino, one of his first appearances. This is a sticker from Peru of all places. So it's a Peruvian release. And then everyone knows this card. Kids, cover your eyes. A little glare there. But it's the, Yu-Gi-Oh C3PO. Happy to see Yu-Gi-Oh Yu-Gi-Oh error card. So I do, I, I collect non sports with like, musicians. I have some Lady Gaga stuff, some Beastie Boy stuff I just collected because these are people I like. Like whether it's actresses or, you know, musicians, that sort of thing. But Yu-Gi-Oh I don't know what's going on with my Internet, I guess it's like I'm back in the AOL days. But do you think, guys, I'll turn it back to you. Do you think this is just, do you think there'll be a correction? Or you think this is just par for the course? Jim, go ahead. Well, it, there's no par. Okay. I mean, I don't think there's no road map that you can clearly see where things are going. You know, when people say, oh, they're just pumping it. People have been pumping things since the beginning of time. There is an art. There's. You got to successfully pump it. And now the tools for pumping are enhanced and people in pumping soccer for, for many, many years. So when the right people pump something, sometimes it catches on along with the fact that other things seem more expensive. It makes these things look cheap. And they're not cheap now. They look expensive. People are going to be thinking, what's next? And already people are saying, if that's what Luke Skywalker goes for, you know, you know, I'm not going to say who it was because what about Princess Leia? What about Darth Vader? And so there's, there's a hierarchy of, of stars and icons in, in every Enterprise. And so if you just get on that bandwagon and see where it's going, it looks like it's gonna, we're gonna be able to ride that for a while. But don't think it's a forever ride. I will also point out when we talk about the Mark Hamill card, Star wars next year is the 50th anniversary. So even if there is a correction that Star wars probably will not correct for a couple years because the hype around the 50th anniversary. I'm not talking about cards. I'm just talking about the general hype with a 50th anniversary will bring back as many people who are still with us who made the Star wars movie. And they'll all get another round of publicity. Mark Hamill's still with us. He'll get another round of publicity. It will goose up. Harrison Ford is still with us. They'll get another round of publicity. George Lucas is still with us. He'll get another round of publicity. All these people will get another round. And that just happened. And by the way, speaking just aesthetically, that's a nice looking card. Forget the grade for a second. That was just a nicely designed, attractive card of Mark Hamill. Skipping anything else about that specific card. Yu-Gi-Oh Dr. Jim, you go ahead. Rich and attractiveness means something in a card. It's why, among other reasons, Topps is a lot in baseball is a lot more popular than Topps. Well, Rich makes an excellent point, but we know from preseason basketball, preseason football, preseason baseball purchases that you want to buy Star wars cards on the 49th year before the 50th anniversary. At the 50th anniversary, yes, there'll be more interest, but the smart people are already getting in now. I think that's part of it on the Star Wars. Yu-Gi-Oh good point too, Rich. With next year being the 50th anniversary, you know, there's going to be, you know, some up arrows, as they say, probably with some of those. And Dr. Jimmy mentioned, you know, some of the other characters from the Star wars franchise. Princess Leia, Darth Vader, Han Solo, Chewbacca. Those cards are, are significant too. It's just the. Luke sort of leads the pack when it comes to, you know, what people are willing to pay for cards out of that series that are, that are high grade. And again, next year being 50 anniversary, there's gonna be a big spotlight on those cards once again. And I'm sure some more will make their way to the auction block, you know, to cash in on that. Go ahead, Dr. Jim. This might be like NFL quarterbacks is that you want to be the highest paid quarterback. Your timing is everything. And so now when, when Mark Hamill, Luke Skywalker has set this, the next one up, if it's Princess Leia or Darth Vader for sure, you know, there's a, there's a new, there's a pecking order and there could be some leapfrogging just because there's a lot more attention to this and you have a baseline. It's like NFL quarterbacks. I want to be the highest paid guy. And so you've got to, you've gotta, you've gotta, you gotta be negotiating your contract at the right time, saying, I want more than the last guy. So you are you. Did I hear you right? You're saying someone might pass, like Darth Vader might pass the Luke Skywalker on the. I'd rather have Darth Vader. I'd rather have Darth Vader in the same condition if it's Darth Vader's rookie. Yu-Gi-Oh he's actually Luke. Yu-Gi-Oh go ahead, Father. I don't want to blow. Spoiler alert. Yu-Gi-Oh I'm gonna. What do you. There's people that will argue like, you can't call these rookie cards because they're not, you know, they're not athletes. They're not, you know, baseball, football, basketball, hockey players even, you know that they're just characters. People don't want it being referred to as rookie cards. I appearance or you know, but other people want it just to be like first appearance. I think it's, you know, it's preference. But like, do you consider that like the first time with that loot card? Would you could call that as rookie card or his first appearance or to you either way, the question is, is it Luke Hamill or is it Luke Sky, I mean Mark Hamill or is it Luke Skywalker and Darth Vader is in a costume and Chewbacca is unrecognizable. And so if you can see the person and it's it, you know, what if Mark Hamill had had some other card? So the first appearance is going to be meaningful. And forget about the naysayers. There's enough people are going to say that's that's a special card. It's the first appearance. First appearances are a big deal in comic books. They're a big deal in sports cards. They're going to be a big deal in non sport. And I mean Spider man, you know, we talked about Spider man earlier. The first appearance of Spider man was a big deal in the comic world in the early in the mid-70s when I was in high school. We knew it was a big deal. It certainly got a. No smaller in 50 years since then. Yu-Gi-Oh I, the problem I have is when you have voice, talent that, that are signing cards and is that a rookie card? When it's. They're voicing a character, they're not the character except they're the voice of the character. So. But if you're really a big fan of that, of that, of that genre, then you're probably going to get that too. Yu-Gi-Oh I gotta put this comment up. It's funny from. I, I agree. Something's going on with my Internet. I don't know if Darth V From wherever. Well, the Death Star's blown up, so I don't know if he's somewhere else, but he's definitely messing up wherever he is. He's messed. He's messing up my Internet. I agree. If we were doing this on May 4th. Yes. I would, I would predict that's a problem. But we're here in August. Yu-Gi-Oh And it's. Here's the thing. Sometimes this happens when it's like Rainier or stormy out, it's sunny out. So I can't blame, I can't Blame the weather today. Hopefully, hopefully it'll clear it up, clear itself up and we one-of-one have any issues. All right, guys, I, I, I know we don't want to talk about non sports for the whole show and we're not going to, but speaking of big, big money cards, this is really fresh off the presses. Tyler reddick here from 2311 Racing, Victory Lane. Yu-Gi-Oh it's even better with TR Chumba by my side. Race to chumbacasino.com let's Chumba. No purchase necessary VTW Group void where prohibited by law CTNCs 21+ sponsored by Chumba Casino. Did you know that driving under the influence of marijuana is illegal? Driving high will get you a dui. And if you're wondering if law enforcement can tell you're driving high, well, everyone else can. Friends, I can tell you drove high. Parents, I can tell when you drive high. Relatives, I can tell you drove here high, didn't you? So what makes you think law enforcement can't. I can tell if you feel different, you drive different. Drive high. Get a dui. Paid for by nhtsa. This ended last night. This is the from Heritage Auctions. And this thing we all know, the carte, it goes almost, you know, like I say, with Dr. Jim, the man who needs no introduction. This is the card that needs no introduction. Although this version's the Piedmont back, guys. And anyone that knows about this card knows that the PED Piedmont back is obviously the rarer version of this card. I, I, if someone wants to correct me, I was told that there's only two Piedmont backs. I don't know if that's true, but this brought 5 million, 800 something thousand dollars last night. Nice. Nice. If you can afford that. I did not. It wasn't me. I don't know if it was, Yu-Gi-Oh rich or Dr. Jim that, Yu-Gi-Oh one-of-one this card or if they'll tell you if they did. But, Yu-Gi-Oh thoughts here and, and I'll go to Dr. Jim first. You know, talk about the, the historical significance of this card, the p, the Piedmont back, you know, for those that don't know that it's rare and that sort of thing. Well, the Most advanced collectors 50 years ago were collecting T206s. The 206 is only a set because Jefferson Burdick said it was so before Jefferson Burdick was out there, people did collect a lot by the backs because they were almost like separate sets. They were separate tobacco cup. But as they, but they were all, you know, the same fronts. And so it's only the most advanced collectors care about the backs and the, and the, and Piedmont, I don't think is that rare of a back, but it's rare on the Wagner. Every Wagner is where. So, Yu-Gi-Oh it's rare. So I, I, I don't think that adds a lot more value. Again, it's the, the club of having a Wagner is so exclusive that. Are you in the inner circle? I don't think so. It's, it's more by grade than by back. Yu-Gi-Oh And these were not, these didn't come out of the, the pack or the, the cigarette packs. They were cut from productions, as Dan points out, which I, I knew and I forgot to mention. So they're all, in a sense, trim. So that's why you see that grade here of authentic and, you know, trim. So, Yu-Gi-Oh didn't stop anybody from bidding almost 6 million just because of the, obviously the rarity of the card. And you know, 20 years ago you, I think half a million would have got you that card. So not a bad if, if you were the person who bought it for half a million or, or, you know, and then you got almost 6 million. That's not a bad ROI for, you know, holding on to it, you know, for, for a little bit and to, um, make some money. I mean, Rich, your, your thoughts here? We see a, you know, almost 6 million bucks on, on one card in last night's Heritage auction. There was other great items, but this one sort of steals the headline. Well, 6 million will usually steal just about any headline in a card world. Not too many cards get past that. One of John, one of Jim and mine's mutual friends here in dfw, was actually the owner of one of the three, three Piedmont Wagners. And Orlando is correct. He pointed out in the thread, in the thread, in the comments that there are three. So I've actually seen one of the three Piedmont Wagner. So now I can say I've seen two of the three, and I think the third one, and I don't know if this is the same one that was auctioned about 1976, just before I started really following the hobby. But I remember it was a big thing on the Trader Speaks, which was the voice of the hobby in those days, how the Wagner got sold for, I think $3,976. Could you imagine if that's the same card? That's, that's a pretty good ROI, I think about from $4,000 to 6 million. Most of us would take that and say thank you very much. And it's, you Know, it's a Wagner, it's legit, it's cool. And it's certainly very difficult of a card. And who's going to complain that the card is trimmed when there's only three known? Yu-Gi-Oh So when we say three known, three graded, or just three total? Three known. Okay. Are they all graded? I think so. Assume so. Yu-Gi-Oh I would. And so we know Dr. Jim has one behind him. So now we just have to figure out who the other two are. And we've, we've started some. You know, I think Phil, in the comments, guys, put like, we're, we've seen some Wagners come to the auction block in recent months. I mean, you know, you can't make more. Obviously what's out there is out there. But you think we're gonna see more people maybe like, turn and burn these. I hate to say that for a card like this, but, like, try, you know, maybe buy it in 20, 26, wait a year and then put it back out there. And, you know, speaking of roi, tried to make money on what they paid and, and you know, for me, if I had one, I would sell, I would sell it and just try to buy. I don't need to pee my back. I just buy a lesser one, if you will, that would cost me lesser and still have one and just make some money. If, if I'm never going to have that problem to worry about, but if I did, that's what I would do. But you think we're going to see sort of these more come into circulation where people just don't keep them like they once did or feels like they once did. John, we're talking. It's not abnormal psychology, but it's not normal people psychology for you have to have a willing seller that's going to put it up and a willing buyer that's going to pay the big bucks. And so when the price keeps going up, it, it, it pulls out from collections. I don't think these are flippers. For the most part. Most of the Wagners are in homes and when they are released, it could be because of personal circumstances or health reasons. I don't think the people are doing this. Normally anybody who has that much money to buy that card, they're not in the need to flip it. Yu-Gi-Oh that's true. But when you have that kind of money, Rich, I don't want to, I'm not in that space. But when you have that kind of money, you like money and you like your money to make money. So those, I'm not saying Everyone that buys a Wagner card is flipping it. But you know, people do flip vintage cards. Maybe not a Wagner all the time, but the other cards are buying it with the sole purpose. Like, this isn't PC. This is, this is something I'm going to move. It's just, it's not if it's just when type of deal. Look, I'll give you a hot take. The famed Wagner PSA8 card that we know because it's been admitted in federal court, was trimmed and it's a PSA 8 card. That card had a book written about it. I'll wager that card, if it was went for sale, would go between 25 and $30 million. Because it's still the most attractive example of that card out there. Yu-Gi-Oh it's crazy. It just to me, and maybe I'm wrong. It's just a feeling. It just feels like we started to see more for sale on auction blocks and what have you. Obviously, for obvious reasons, right, they're going to bring serious, serious money. So if you like, like Dr. Jim said, maybe it is a situation where someone's older, they have a health issue or they need, or they need to cash out. You know, maybe they got in, like you said, rich, really cheap. And now's the time to like, hey, I'm in my 60s, 70s, or, or older and like, you know, I'm not gonna leave my family. Really don't care about that as much as the money would help help my family, you know, So I think maybe that's. Maybe it's as simple as that, maybe it's not. I mean, a lot of. As we all know, right, In a lot of these sales, the buyer's not identified the sellers. Drew McIntyre here from WWE. Wielding the Claymore can be a life of chaos. But I'm not dominating in the ring. Chumba Casino is how this warrior takes a Yu-Gi-Oh break. With hundreds of online social gigs and new weekly releases, there's always something fresh to try and those daily boosts, next level. Even my free time feels like Valhalla. So when life feels like a battle, kick up your feet, have some fun and let's Chumba. No purchase necessary VGW Group voidwear prohibited by law CT's and C's 21 plus sponsored by Chumba Casino. Did you know that driving under the influence of marijuana is illegal? Driving high will get you a dui. And if you're wondering if law enforcement can tell you're driving high, well, everyone else can. Friends, I can tell you drove high. Parents, I can tell when you drive high, relatives, I can tell. You drove here high, didn't you? So what makes you think law enforcement can't. I can tell if you feel different, you drive different, drive high, get a DUI paid for by nhtsa. Not identified. So unless someone comes out and says, Yu-Gi-Oh it was me, I'm, you know, and they're serious, we really don't know, you know, unless someone else spills, as they say, here's a question. Maybe Dr. Jim or Rich, I don't know. But Phil asked who owns the most. Is there anyone that has multiple copies of this card? Are you guys aware if that's the case or, or no? Well, Mike Erenstein used to have, has had three. Keith Olbermann used to have three. I think he's got two or one now. But, but these are not common man questions. They're not things that people aspire to. There's a very, very. It's, it's, it's, it's really the original grail in our industry. And it's because it was so tough, because the original grail from 2000 years ago was, was one thing, one thing that actually never was found but, or could be authenticated and found, whatever. But. So this is very, very scarce. It's beyond the means of 99.999 of the people. So to have more than 1, is that the definition of a hoarder? What do you think? Well, listen, I would love to have one, but if I had two, I would only have one because I definitely wouldn't keep two. I would one for sure. And, but Yu-Gi-Oh you know, like Dan pointed out, Dan lynch. There's been four on the auction block this year in the calendar year of 2026. So I don't know if anyone's tracking. That's got to be probably to my knowledge a record for most in. In one calendar year that that hit. Hit the marketplace, if you will. By the way, one thing, and I noticed it was kind of sort of referred to in the chat when I first started in the hob, in the organized hobby, there were three cards considered to be grails. The T206 Wagner, the 33 Gaudi, La Joa, which is released actually in 34, and the 52 mantle. There was a note in the comments that a PSA8 mantle sold last night in the same auction for about 3.1 million. If I remember the post correctly. Lingerie has fallen off the map. So even grails don't last forever. Well, I think the lazy way it's just that there's very few of them and then they don't rarely see the light of day. So I think that, I think it's still a, an iconic card. I just think you just don't see it in the same breath as you see some of the other cards that are considered grails like the 50 mano. And so Yu-Gi-Oh that's great. And 3.1 million Heritage did pretty good last night, I believe. So, you know, kudos to, to them for offering to having those cards, you know, offered. So. And Yu-Gi-Oh you know, Tony agrees with you. You know, Wags, Yu-Gi-Oh Plank, Eddie Plank and and then the Topps, Yu-Gi-Oh manos. You know, here's, here's a question. Dr. Jim, Yu-Gi-Oh yank me card. Steve said dealers with 652 tops mantle in the showcases, are they hoarders if, if they're not for sale? Yu-Gi-Oh if they're for sale at a reasonable price. That's just doing business in the hire in Orlando. That's our friend Levi usually at the national with the 652 mantles. And Levi's a great guy. So please, you know, he, you know, he's, he loves collecting. He loves selling too. And he, he always was very gracious. Anytime he did a show that we walked around, he always, he always wrote down his sales. He always shared all his sales of the shows with us too. So I mean Levi's always been very gracious. He's, he's a longtime friend of both of ours too. So. But you know, I don't consider Levi a hoarder. He's just a big time collector and he sells duplicates and he, he has built quite a good world for himself and I. And now he's, you know, in between Jim and mine's age and basically enjoying semi retirement and God bless him. Yu-Gi-Oh there's a good point here too. By Vintage card collector. 430. It's hard for anyone or anything to remain relevant for over a hundred years. And Yu-Gi-Oh that's, that's true. I believe that. I know a few people mentioned Ash and legacy cards. One, you know, few people said he had 752 mantles. In this case, Dan said at Strongsville he not had seven. Add six to the seven and he had 13 in his case. That's insane to me and probably the most. But Yu-Gi-Oh that's, that's crazy. So I guess if you, you're looking for 52 mano, Yu-Gi-Oh maybe Ash is your guy. Yu-Gi-Oh the track down, he's got 13 apparently. Or at least that Strongsville he had 13, Yu-Gi-Oh for you to choose from. Yu-Gi-Oh probably, I'm sure all different, Yu-Gi-Oh grade levels for, you know, whatever price you want to get in. There's no cheap 52 mantle. So again, I don't own one. Not going to. But. So, you know, but that, that's where we are. We're seeing, we're seeing a lot more of these iconic Grail cards, whatever you want to call them. It just seems like, and I get it, you know, when they're gonna bring that kind of the dough on the auction block, the temptations there, even if you don't want to sell. Right. The thoughts got. Even if you're a person that's like, I'm never going to sell this. And then you see what these go for. Yu-Gi-Oh I'm sure, you know, that's why we're seeing some of these hit the auction block or, or even privates for that, that match. So history is a great teacher. I always tell the story. When the Topps Mountains sold at 3. $3,100 each at the Willow Grove show in March of 1980 to R B Coins at a public auction, everybody thought they had lost their mind spending $9,000 on those three cards. Well, as I. When I talked about the Trader Speaks earlier, the next issue of the Trader Speaks, which came out after you could put that card for sale or auction in the magazine, there were 1752 tops mantles in that next issue. That was a lot in those days. And so I think some people thought cashing in at that point would be good. But as I pointed out, you're now at a different level where the people who want to cash out don't necessarily need. If you can afford to spend millions on the card, you don't always need to cash out. Lakers owners notwithstanding. No, but actually, it's a leading indicator or an indicator the market has Beckett If we saw 10 wagners this year or 12 being offered for sale, that would be danger, Will Robinson. That would be with something is. We have, we have hit the peak because all these great cards are coming out. There needs to be an equilibrium. Four Wagners means four people thought, you know, I'm, I'm gonna make money. I'm going to take my profits now. I'm gonna, I'm gonna change it. But I said beware. If of all these huge cards come out all at once. Like Rich said 46 years ago, the market plummeted because that equilibrium was lost. So four Wagners in a huge bull market in the highest prices for Everything is. Is not earth shaking to me. It's. It's. It's predictable. I'm worried if there's even more. John, you there? Okay. He's frozen. All right, Jim, let's go to the next topic while John is frozen, which is the IX center in Cleveland being reopened. Oh, I'm back. Okay. All right, well, I was just trying to help you boss this. This gentleman's place in. In your state. I don't want to say your neck of the woods, but, you know, we got Yorda and Alvarez who right now. The season ended today, and, guys, I apologize for him. I don't know what's going on with that, but we're gonna get through it. Drew McIntyre here from WWE. Wielding the Claymore can be a life of chaos. But out of not dominating in the ring, Chumba Casino is how this warrior takes a Yu-Gi-Oh break. With hundreds of online social games and new weekly releases, there's always something fresh to try. And those daily boosts next level. Even my free time feels like Valhalla. So when life feels like a battle, kick up your feet, have some fun, and let's Chumba. No PURCHASE NECESSARY VGW Group Void where prohibited by law. CTS and C's 21+ sponsored by Chumba Casino. Sleep Number's new collections are designed to adapt to the changing nature of your life and your sleep needs. Whether it's the personalized comfort of the Comfort Mode mattress, the targeted pressure relief of the Comfort Next mattress, or the climate collection that actively cools or warms to help you fall asleep and stay asleep. And now all beds are on sale during our biggest sale of the year. Save 25% on the new Comfort Next Luxe for a limited time only at a Sleep number store or sleepnumber.com. you know, Jordan, if the season ended today, Jordan Alrest will be your triple crown winner. Would be the first since Miguel Cabrera. And Miguel Cabrera did it, and it was 20 years since the last one before him, you know, it's. It's not common, obviously. That's why it's called the Triple Crown. You know, Jordan Alvarez, he's not like new to the scene. Like, he's had some good years, not triple crown years. He doesn't get a ton of hobby love when we compare him to some other current players, you know, like Bobby Witt Jr. But you can. You can make an argument, you know, he's. He's a better player, at least in the moment. You know what would be if. If he winds up winning the Triple Crown guys like, big deal. I mean, it is a big deal, but is it going to be a big hobby deal? Better to ask that. I don't want him to one-of-one it because if he wins it, that means the Astros one-of-one the, one-of-one that one-of-one the division. You know, I, I, I, I want the Rangers to, to pull up and pass up the Astros. And Jordan Alvarez is a problem. So not that he has to go on a cold streak, but it's, he's got people nipping at him in every category. So he had a bigger lead a few a month ago. It's a long season. That's why it's so tough. It's so tough. And he was in the other league. He, he wouldn't even be leading some of the categories. First, Phil's comment about Downtown Gwynn in 318, I will point out in 1972, a gentleman by the name of Rodney Klein Carew hit.318 to best out Dick Allen for the Triple Crown. Dick Allen was second with a.308 average that year. So.318 can one-of-one a batting title depending on the year. So, and I grew up in Astro. I was a Yankees and Astros fan growing up and now living in the Dallas area. I'm kind of conflic since the Astros and Rangers are in the same same division. So it does make it hard. So part of me is rooting just on historical level for him to one-of-one the Triple Crown. And as Jim says, part of me is like thinking, geez, the Rangers. But on the other hand, I looked at the standings this morning. We still have a legitimate shot of the AL west champion winning the division with a sub.500 record. So, you know, there's that to root for too. You know, that's just a different thing. I mean, in 1994, before the strikes, before the famed strike, which really hurt a lot of things, the Rangers were leading the division with a 52 and 62 record. So at least we're not that low yet. So having said all that, I do notice that, you know, using the Beckon OPG and going through my cards, there are plus arrows on the OPG of just about every Yordan Alvarez card. And I'm sure he's getting some more interest. And so as such, I think he doesn't really have one card to really, you know, get the interest around for that one card. But there's enough rookie cards of him out there where you can still buy them reasonably priced, and I think that'll help too. You know, Miguel Cabrera, really his Best card was the 2000 tops traded autograph card which is his rookie card year. I don't know if Jordan has any cards like that either. And that, that does depress the market a little. Yu-Gi-Oh And you know, I've, listen, I'm a huge Tony Gwynn fan. He's one, arguably the best, greatest hitter to play the game. Didn't strike out. You know, I watch a baseball game now, whether it be minor league here in Syracuse or watching major league games, whether it be in person or on tv. These guys are striking out at an incredible clip. And I think, you know, we, we're, we're sort of bagging on your Yordon for leading the league with just a.318 average. I think that's really where we're at. I think the days of like guys like Don Manley and Tony Gwynn and George Brett, where they're batting in the 350s and three 60s, I think those days are over. We don't have those kind of hitters at least currently anymore. I think the three 20s, 330 would be remarkable in, in today's game. Whether it's pitchers throwing harder, if that's the issue and why the, the contact rate is, is went down. I'm getting all like, you know, technical jargon, but I just, I think 318, that's that. I think a lot of players would take that and, and I think 300. Around 300 will put you in the mix for a batting title whether you one-of-one it or, or close, you know, so I think that's, that's where we are in, in the major league. Worse than that. It's worse than that. You one-of-one batting titles and you're still expendable. Look at, Yu-Gi-Oh he's on his third or fourth team and he's winning a battle. He's winning a batting title. But the, but the powers that be have determined that it does not contribute as much to winning as hitting home runs and hitting for power and a strikeout. At least you didn't hit into a double play. Yu-Gi-Oh In other words, three true outcomes. And they consider three true outcomes. Home runs, strikeouts and walks. Everything else is almost irrelevant nowadays. That is part of what happened with the. And again, air quote Moneyball effect. And by the way, there's a good point. Pitchers are throwing harder today too. It's harder to hit a 98 mile an hour fastball than it is a 92 or 93 mile an hour fast. One other thing to remember, batters nowadays see far more pitchers in their career than they used to. And I do not remember the exact numbers, so please do not quote these numbers. So I'm going to do this in a generalization. Lou Gehrig faced 325 pitchers in his career. Granted, he only played in the American League. Andrew McCutcheon faced 1325 pitchers in his career. You have a familiarity when you face a pitcher a lot. You don't have that same familiarity when they just keep throwing arms at you because you have to know which you know. Every pitcher has subtle little differences and don't think that that's not an important difference for people with batting average and all that. Yu-Gi-Oh and it's, it's a couple of comments from, from the chat room too. Is, is pitchers aren't pitching, you know, complete games. That's a rarity in today's game. A complete game that, that would lead like Sports center for pitcher through a complete game. In one game it's all specialists, right? Get me five innings and then we'll get into our middle relief and then if we're winning and it's close, we'll get in the closer and so guys aren't facing batters maybe more than twice. Starting pitchers aren't facing hitters more than twice in the same game. So like you said Rich, they're just seeing a plethora of pitchers. Probably more so in today's game than and years. You know, I remember knowing Ryan would pitch 11 innings if the game went into extra innings. Like a guy didn't really come out. He'd have upwards to, to 150, 160 pitches thrown. Those days are, are obviously over. And so again that's why I think we're seeing and guys like you said, guys throw harder. I remember even as a player when I was in high school throwing 80, that was like, you know, 90 was a big deal. Now 90, like you only throw 90 now you're almost not considered like a prospect for, for the major leagues. You got to throw hard or if you don't throw a hundred, you better have a bunch of, of great off speed pitches, sweepers, curves, sliders, that sort of thing to keep hitters off balance. So it's a different, it's a different game. Someone else pointed out we may have seen our last 300 game winner for who knows if, if ever again. That's crazy when you think about it. And then so you know pitchers are gonna, pitchers are going to make the hall of Fame, right? But most of them will not have that 300 one-of-one accolade next to their, their name. So just going to be on, on their career. Maybe they one-of-one 200 something games and get in. Bo, I was at that game. There you go. That's like 1906. Rich was there. He was, he was working. But Yu-Gi-Oh look, look at this, man. That's, that's crazy. Larry Gitlin points out Bob Gibson at 29 games, not in his career, but in 1968 alone that we one-of-one see. It would take the major leagues, probably major leagues as a whole 10 years now to get 29 complete games as a, as a league. So that's just, some of these stats are just, you know, it's, it's, it's crazy when you think about it. So, you know, we talk about Tony Gwynn not striking out much. Here's Joe Sewell, you know, not striking out much. It's again, it's a different game, different athletes, different training regimens. 300. Listen, you hit.300 today. In my opinion, that's a good average and it's probably going to put you in the mix for a batting title. But like Dr. Jim pointed out, batting title, $3 in a batting title will get you a Coke. Right. It doesn't guarantee that you one-of-one be moved three or four times in a five year period like Lewis arise and great hitter, great hitter. So I don't know if there's something maybe in the locker room with him that he just can't stay on one team very long, but you know, as a Mets fan. Yu-Gi-Oh go ahead. He's not that valuable. Just getting a hit every three out of 32 times out of 100 instead of 29 times out of 100. It's, it's not enough difference without, without the slugging. And for pitchers, they've got the same metrics, but 50 years ago, if you led the league in ERA, okay, so you don't give up a lot of runs. You led the league in strikeouts. Yu-Gi-Oh You struck out a lot of people. You had to lead the league in wins. And that's what, and the same thing with, with, for Cy Young and for MVP leading the league in batting. Not anymore. RBIs maybe. Coupled with the big power. Yu-Gi-Oh probably. So it's, it's more Robin. Chicks dig the love. Chicks dig the long ball. Dr. Jim, Tony says Robin Roberts had 28 straight complete games between the 52 and 53 season. Yu-Gi-Oh those guys were workhorses. Walter Johnson, I mean the list goes on from that ERA and even before, you know, like I said, guys pitching double headers like, you know, there was no, back in the day, there wasn't a five man or six man pitching rotation. A lot of times it was just two or three guys and they just, you know, you know, fed them the ball and those guys pitched to their arm fell off and in many cases their arms didn't fall off. It's just, it's mindboggling to me when you look at some of those, those yesteryear stats and, and accolades and compare them to today. Bob. Bob Boozo. I like to take credit for the chick digs, the long ball, but I wasn't, I wasn't the originator of, of that, but I like to take credit. But Yu-Gi-Oh it's, it's a different game. I will say this as a show dealer, I have quite a bit of, of Yordons, Yu-Gi-Oh in my inventory. Yu-Gi-Oh he sells a little bit, but not like you would think. And, and again, if he wins a Triple Crown, I'm sure that there'll be more demand for his stuff. That's what happened with Miggy years ago when he one-of-one it. And he was a great player before he one-of-one the Triple Crown. But when you one-of-one when you do something like that, obviously people take more notice. There'll be more, you know, there'll be more demand, Yu-Gi-Oh for stuff. So if someone on a selfish point of view, as someone that has a lot of Yorin on stuff, I'm hoping he wins the Triple Crown. So maybe I have less yard on stuff that's available in my, in my show inventories. And again, I know we've mentioned this ed rule back two shutouts in a doubleheader in 1906. And Rich, if you have any questions about what happened there, Rich will, will fill you in. I was there. And by the way, Jim pointed out a very good thing about Louise Luis on her eyes is that one of the reasons the Phillies, who are in comp. In contention for at least the playoff spot this year, why they actually traded for him from the Giants, who are going nowhere this year, is his defense is considered much, much improved this year. Ron Washington worked with him all year. Ron Washington, in his 70s, is still the master of fixing infielders and teaching them how to play the infield. He is we. And I don't think he'll get in in any way. But to me he's one of these type of people. Hall of Fame contributors. What he has done for so many teams over his career, he in fact he finally got the World Series ring he should have had with the Rangers when He was an infield coach for the Braves the year they one-of-one the World Series. He has made Arias a much better fielder and that has actually increased interest in Arias. And Jim was right. Arias is just a singles hitter, a little bit of power. You know, he's getting, he doesn't walk aloud, gets on base. When he gets on base, adding a better defensive ending, a better defender to the mix makes it a lot better. Yu-Gi-Oh And Ron Washington, you know, obviously played too. He's probably known more for his managerial and coaching prowess. He had some off the field stuff many know about. We don't have to go into the gory details. That's probably not going to help his case. Whether that's fair or not can be debated. But Yu-Gi-Oh I think he's, you know, he, he knows the game and, and I was watching the broadcast the other day and they, they actually talked about Ron Washington and his effect on infielders that he's, he's coached and made a difference in this career. How to have fun anytime, anywhere. Step 1 Go to chumbacasino.com chumbacasino.com Got it. Step 2 Collect your welcome bonus. Come to papa. Welcome bonus. Step 3 Play hundreds of casino style games for free. That's a lot of games, all for free. Step 4 Unleash your excitement. Yu-Gi-Oh hoo. Chumba Chumba Casino has been delivering thrills for over a decade. So claim your free welcome bonus now and live the chumba life. Visit chumbacasino.com no purchase necessary vgw group void where prohibited by law 21 terms and conditions apply. Sleep number's new collections are designed to adapt to the changing nature of your life and your sleep needs. Whether it's the personalized comfort of the Comfort Mode mattress, the targeted pressure relief of the Comfort Next mattress, or the climate collection that actively cools or warms to help you fall asleep and stay asleep. And now all beds are on sale during our biggest sale of the year. Save 25% on the new Comfort Next luxe for a limited time only at a Sleep number store or sleepnumber.com all right, Rich, you alluded to it. We'll go to our last topic here and that's Walmart is not getting the Cleveland IX center. It's, it's staying Jimmy Haslam, who, for those that don't know, he's the owner of the Cleveland Browns. He, Yu-Gi-Oh reached agreement to. I don't know if he's leasing it, I don't know if he bought it, but it's I think like A three or five year deal. Yu-Gi-Oh they're going to do some improvements Yu-Gi-Oh to this place if you've been there. I actually liked it a few years ago. First off, it's drivable for, for me here in Syracuse. I always like drivable Nationals. But the one thing I liked about the IX center, guys, it was really. It's just a exact rectangle. So everything's in. Unlike Chicago where there's rooms off of rooms. This is just one big rectangle. The problem with this area, as most note, is not hotels around. So you gotta like either have a car or Uber a lot. Traffic was not good getting in and out to the point where they were charging for parking. But it was, it was causing so much delay. They just waved charging for parking and just let people in and it still was still slow getting in there. I, I remember it. I just made a point like I gotta leave early and just get there early and loiter around to avoid sort of that traffic. I had my own vehicle because like I said, Cleveland's in. In driving distance but lack of hotels in the immediate vicinity. Traffic. There's no restaurants really in the immediate facility. So this was say if you want to call it save from Walmart, where it still now can be an Expo center and hold shows and different things. Is, is the, is the national ever coming back or is it it. Is it a mute point? It's not coming back. If it comes back, then that is not a good sign. That means we Beckett in 2026 or 2027. Now it. The IX center was demonstrated at our event to not be a sufficient place for a big B2C kind of a show. The insides were great, but the, the infrastructure, the logistics of having a huge crowd, it one-of-one work. And so unless we're projecting to have 50,000 people instead of 150,000 people in 2029, the IX center is. Is not going to be. But it. But the. But it could be an interesting case for a. Not an east coast national because that, that moniker. So you're saying you're not kidding. You could have another show there, but it one-of-one be the national. Would you agree? I think Jim's onto something and I think he's right. I, I am not a big fan of the Cleveland national compared to Chicago National. It's and the. And it's not the show itself. The show's going to be good wherever it is. I don't. The show is good. The show would be good and the show as a show is good in Atlantic City, which I really, to me is like the worst place that I know of that we've had a show recently. And it's be good in Chicago, it'll be good in Detroit, it'd be good in Cleveland. The show Fleer itself is fine. It's everything else that surrounds it which is the problem. And that's the biggest problem with Cleveland is that you have to know, like, for example, anytime I would go to Cleveland, I'd always say, just put me across the street from a mall or a strip mall, so at least I could go somewhere. You know, I could walk somewhere at night, just even if I wanted to go there. I remember one year there was Perkins across the street that was perfectly fine for me to go to dinner at Perkins. They had really good desserts too. And Chicago has such a good infrastructure. You know, a place like Anaheim had really good infrastructure for us, but for a national, St. Louis, Baltimore, they had really good infrastructure around the whole area. And that to me, the national needs to be an experience. The show itself is great, but you need more than that. And I would like to see the Strongsville show move to the ixn. There's certainly enough vintage people that would go to that show and then they could, like they did at the last place they used, put, you know, set up a different area for the TCG people or the modern people and really have kind of a fun show where, you know, hey, this area is going to be vintage, this area is going to be tcg, this area is going to be more modern and there'll be some crossover. But I think that would be a really cool idea for the show. I kind of like that Rich may have the, the vintage show at Cleveland, but again, you can still have the same. Gonna still have the same issues. Dan says, hey there, let's have our non sports convention there. So there's two ideas, right? The vintage and the non sports part of the show. Apparently I froze, but at this point I'm not gonna leave or come back. You can still hear me, but, you know, so I, I guess you guys are saying there's zero percent chance that the national will ever return to Cleveland. If the national goes back to Cleveland, John, that's a bad sign. It means the, the national really, really Beckett And how the IX center could be voted in. With the current structure of how the national locations are chosen, I actually think Atlantic City would, would come way ahead of the IX Center. And I think both of those are non starters. You know, we'll see what happens in Detroit. Not this year. But the next year. But Chicago is, is the horse to beat and they are. They're doing better every year. I think they're hitting their limits. But it's not, it'd be a, it'd be a backward step for the hobby to go to, to go to the Ajax Center. You know, I remember, I know it's a few years ago, like we've all talked about the area around that IX Center. There's not a lot there. It seems like there's room where. If they wanted to build some hotels and break ground on some hotels and restaurants. I don't think it's impossible. You, you see that as a possibility. If, if, you know, if, if the powers that be want to invest some, some money into infrastructure or it doesn't, that's too late. It doesn't work. That's not the way real estate developers think. There already are plenty of hotels there, but they're not great because the nature of the conventions that have been there have been more technical aerospace or you know, other heavy equipment kinds of things where you're not looking for a five star hotel. So, so it's. The draw is the IX center and they were, and, and that was almost put out, that was almost demolished because it, that part of it wasn't working. So it's not a financially good position. It's, it's, you know, it's, it's a problem, John. It's a problem. And it's, and it's, it's, it's, it's not going to come back. It's not good. Yu-Gi-Oh it's such a huge, well constructed building. It'd probably be really expensive to tear it down. It's the, the walls are so thick and there's basement on basement and, and all these kinds of things. It's, it's, it's, it's going to be something. In the past it, it was there. There were a couple of great nationals there, but not the last one. Yu-Gi-Oh good point here by Chris. He says it's next to an airport. So you have to be careful building anything of height significance. I'm sure there's rules, you know, with that. And so maybe that, maybe that's why we don't see a hotel unless you build some. Maybe you have to build some long hotels rather than tall hotels. So have just two floors. But they have, that's what they have. Just saying worked to a degree and it still works for a B2B type of A convention. But when you have a hundred thousand people coming in, a hundred Thousand cars. That's, that's, that's, that's just, that's agony. That was so miserable to be stuck in line to be to. You could have walked a lot faster than, than drive it than driving. Orlando's politicking for a Orlando National. I'd be for that. And Phil from Oklahoma is asking you guys, could Dallas, could Dallas hold one? Is, is the infrastructure there for Dallas National? The K. Bailey Hutchinson Convention center is big enough to have a national. Having said that, and we talked about hotels, the hotel and restaurant infrastructure near the K. Bailey Hutchinson is not really conducive to hosting a national. It's okay, but it's not close enough to the Hope. They are building hotels where you can walk across the street like in Rosemont, you know, without, you know. So they are improving that. And here in Plano they built a wonderful little building called the Plano Center. And a friend of mine was involved in it and kept pushing, says you're building this, you got space across the street. Build a hotel with a walkway. They all said that's too much money. Well, the Plano center is not doing great for the simple reason that people don't want to have conventions there. Because you have to drive 15 minutes from any hotel. You know, in other words, he, he just said, hey, you're gonna need, you're gonna need this. And that's something to think about when you build a convention center is make sure you have the infrastructure close enough to where the center is to have people stay there. And Bo pointed out, and rightly so, you have a successful place in Rosemont. Don't screw it up. You've got the best place. And I know Bo's prejudice. He's a two hour drive to the, to the minute from where he is in Madison, Wisconsin. But still he's right. It's the perfect infrastructure for a national. And I love the airport too. Yu-Gi-Oh I like this. I like the national. Chicago too. I have to fly there. I'm not trying to have a pity party. I gotta run, run a car. So it's a little cost inducing to me. But you know, I still managed to get there. I save up the over the course of the year knowing that it might cost me more than one. That's drivable. I like this comment from vintage card collector guys.433 says I don't buy the excuse. Dealers one-of-one travel to the national. If you move it, they will come. I agree with that. I think, I think a major. I don't want to paint with A broad. I think a majority of dealers, if they can get tables at the national, wherever it is, they're going to make, make it there. And here's the deal. Like if, if some don't want to go, there's going to be two or three people lined up behind them to take, take their tables from them if they're not making the trip. So the national is always going to sell out almost no matter where it is. So I, you know, I know they're trying to be fair to the dealers who've been with them from, for the long haul, and that's why they have the vote. I understand that. But there's never going to be a national where there's tables available. They're always going to sell out dealer tables because for dealers that don't come or don't want to make the trip, there'll be a line to take their table from them. So we're in overtime so that it's been a fun chat, but thank you chat, by the way. That's been great. Yu-Gi-Oh All right, guys, again, I apologize for the Internet issues, but we made it through there somehow, some way, hopefully I can figure out what's going on. I don't know what's going on, but we'll work on that. Guys. Next week, episode 400 of, Yu-Gi-Oh Hobby Hotline, we're gonna give away a couple, Yu-Gi-Oh yearly pro memberships to Card Ladder, maybe something else, Yu-Gi-Oh as well. So, Yu-Gi-Oh stay, stay tuned for that. What do you got there, Rich? Oh, I remember those. Bill asked me to Phil, Phil asked me. Since you usually ask about what we've got coming up. Well, the show I run for my synagogue is coming up in two weeks and we were blessed by somebody whose husband passed away and she kept reading my emails and we've been chatting and she donated us. He had a hundred of these Tops magazine number ones which we will be giving away to anybody who gives us the suggested donation. And we'll make sure our vendors get copies too. With 20 tables, I'm not. Don't have that many vendors who will be doing the show. And the first hundred people who come in will get one of those magazines. And it's just a nice little. It's a, you know, I always try to have some value added it, you know, at my show. And these, these magazines even still have the cards from that very first Tops magazine and they're all in nice shape and it's, it's kind of fun. And still, still noticed when I posted that on Facebook. So I appreciate, I Appreciate that. And yes, my office is a hoarder's den, so we will leave it at that. All right, gentlemen, always, always fun chat with you. I always learn something. Thank you to the chat room. I know I say this all the time, but I mean it. Whether you're watching us live like today or later on via audio on whatever your favorite platform is, we appreciate you. You don't have to necessarily do that, but you do. And so we thank you for that as well. So we'll be back. Like I said, next week. Episode 400. I'm sure we missed numbered somewhere down the line, but next week we're we'll be labeled 400. We'll have a couple things to give away. And again, I appreciate everybody out there. Have a great weekend. Stay safe and happy collecting. Thank you for listening to this episode of Hobby Hotline. Just want to remind everyone we are a live show every Saturday morning, 11am Eastern, 8am Pacific on the four collectors channel on YouTube. That's the number four the word collectors channel on YouTube. We hope to see many of you live on a future Saturday. We have a great interview, interactive chat room, and we always provide a link for anyone that wants to come on the show and chop it up with us. So that's a reminder every Saturday, 11am Eastern, 8am Pacific on the Four Collectors channel on YouTube. Hope to see you on the show. Drew McIntyre here from WWE. Wielding the claymore can be a life of chaos, but I'm not dominating in the ring. True. Chumba Casino is how this warrior takes a Yu-Gi-Oh break. With hundreds of online social games and new weekly releases, there's always something fresh to try. And those daily boosts next level. Even my free time feels like Valhalla. So when life feels like a battle, kick up your feet, have some fun and let's Chumba. No purchase necessary. VGW Group voidware prohibited by law CTS and CS21 sponsored by Chumba Casino. Grainger knows when you're a procurement manager for an office park, you're not managing one building, you're managing all of them. 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