Season 5 Ep. 21 Hobby Addiction and Collectors MD

Hello and welcome to the Ball Card Show, the sports podcast for the Sports Collective. This is season five, episode 21. We've got a lot coming up this month in the hobby. It's really just one thing, if we're being honest about it. We're less than a month out. It's one major thing, but leading up to it, at least for us, it feels like it is big week after big week after big week. We're in a gauntlet of shows right now. Bigger shows and the stress of sourcing and all that stuff is upon us the summer season. Yep. We just finished up a local show last week in Lancaster, Ohio. I'll give a quick rundown in the next few weeks. This Sunday, July the 6th at Crossing, Central Crossing, good grief, Central Crossing School in Grove City, Ohio. We'll be set up at Cardfest. It's going to be another great show. These are the same people that have promoted the Ship Shawana Show. Card Collector, too, has partnered with this show. There'll be a lot of familiar faces in the hobby. How many tables are set up at this? Over 200. Over 200? Yeah. Really, really good show. It'll be Sunday, so come say hey to us there. The following week, we'll be in Xenia, Ohio. The week after that, we will be at the Eastgate Show in Cincinnati, and then two weeks after that, we'll be at the National. We might take a break the weekend before. I probably won't. You may. I have a feeling we're going to be very inventory poor. Yes, that's entirely possible. Not my favorite situation to be in, but it is fun to buy. Oh, yeah. It's always fun to source. It's sourcing properly that is the challenge, but somehow we pull it off. Quick reminder to you as you're checking in with us, if maybe you've just been introduced to the podcast through the socials or whatever, be sure to give us a like, follow, subscribe, whatever platform you're on. If you're on socials, we tend to chop up clips all through the week from the weekly podcast. If you want the full-length video of the podcast, click on the link in the bio wherever you are. It'll take you to our YouTube page. You can check it out there. We drop new episodes every Thursday, and speaking of every Thursday, what do we do Thursday nights? We go live on Whatnot at 7 o'clock every Thursday at 7 p.m. Eastern time, and this week, once again, thank you to the folks over at Juicebox. We dropped a video a few weeks ago. You guys watch and listen every week. You're probably sick of hearing us saying this, but this is for the new folks. We ripped a whole case of their repack product that they sent to us, and the deal we made with them was this. We don't want you to pay us. We're not going to keep these cards. We will give you an honest review if that's what you want. Make sure it's actually what you want because we're going to be honest, and the deal is we get to give away all these slaps. So that's what we've been doing the last two weeks on Whatnot. Again, this week and then for two more weeks, we will be doing that. Some of the highlights that we will be giving away this week, how about a Yamamoto and Otani PSA 10? We've got a really cool orange disco, fast break, some people call it whatever, Jamar Chase color match in an SGC10. This is a fun one you don't see too often. How about Faces of the Future, Shea Gilgis Alexander rookie card in an SGC10? Really high grade on the Z-Force Zuperman Kobe Bryant, and the big giveaway of the night. How about the Bijan Robinson Select RPA number to $199? All those are going to be buyer's giveaways along with 10 more things, and then we will have 10 regular giveaways. So come hang out with us, hop in the stream. One of our favorite things that we see happening every week in our Whatnot stream is the number of folks who start with us at seven o'clock and are still there at 10 o'clock, and when we're pulling orders, one person has order number three and order number 280. It's a fun thing. It feels like this podcast for three hours. That's what we shoot for. Yeah. Come hang out with us. You don't have to buy anything. You can just hang out, see some cool cards, be a part of the stream. Who needs fireworks? You know what I mean? There are more people that actually don't like fireworks than you realize. I don't mind fireworks. I can't stand crowds of people, though. That's the worst. We have a thing here in Columbus called Red, White & Boom. Kind of a big deal. Hard pass. It's a hard pass for me. I like it, but only from certain places, and they're not where all the people are. If I sound rather hoarse, I am. If Gary talks a lot in this episode, it's a good thing. I'm not going to complain about it as much as normal. As we jump in, we're real excited. We got a special guest coming up here in a little bit, Alex with Collectors MD. We're going to be diving into a little more of the darker side of the hobby. I guess we're getting a little bit of a label with the trolls that we just talk about negative things, and that's not true. Just a lot more people tend to watch the negative things, apparently, because there's a lot of the other kind of clips in there as well. Go to our actual page and just scroll through our clips. You'll see one negative clip for every 20 positive clips. Or, for context, watch an episode. Yeah, watch the whole episode. All right. Katelyn Clark seems to be getting completely hosed by the player vote for the All-Star game. Ninth among the... Let's backtrack. Back it up. WNBA All-Star voting has concluded, and the fan vote, Katelyn Clark was number one overall by miles, hundreds of thousands of votes. She had almost 1.3 million votes, which, to put in context, until last year, I don't think 1.3 million people had watched the WNBA, had attended games in the total in the 20 years of the league. Just absolutely annihilated it. That was a little bit of exaggeration. Not much of one. You have no idea. I don't, but that's a bet I would be willing to make. A blind. I would make that bet blind. Hey, you heard it here. But anybody who watches the games at all knows how good Katelyn Clark is. It's not close. So number one in fan voting by leaps and bounds. Ninth, not overall, among the player vote. Ninth among guards in the player vote. What are they looking for that they're not seeing? Uh, I mean, there's, there's multiple factors, but I'm trying to understand why that might not happen. Like how ninth place among guards in the player vote. Yeah. What are they voting on? Not basketball skill. It doesn't seem to be that, uh, feel free to let us know what you think. Definitely lead the troop of hate ones. Yeah. It seems to be that way. But you know what's loved amongst players? You know what? They won't be hating. They're definitely going to want her at the bargaining table with the next CBA. They're going to be happy she's there for that. So we'll let y'all draw your own conclusions as to what's going on there. But it's yeah, it was, it was shocking to say the least. Ninth place among guards. Katelyn Clark. She's aight. Yeah. She's yeah. Other players are like, she's aight. Yeah. Some salty bitterness going on. A lot. I don't, I don't understand it. It's not that there can't be other ones and maybe she's not the number one. Like there's, there's the concept of like, you know, one of the time they've been in the league, how long they've been playing longevity team leadership, but for the players at ninth is a statement. Diana Taurasi being ahead of her in the player vote. No issue with that. Brittany Sykes being ahead of her in the player vote. You don't know about that one. How does that happen? All right. Let's move on national less than a month out. We're going to be there. Everyone's going to be there. You should be there. If you want to, you don't have to go. I got to get the numbers out for this. Oh, we do have something to share specifically about the national. Yeah. Gary and I will be up from Wednesday through Saturday, staying close to the convention center there. If any of you want to catch up, be sure to reach out, hit us up on socials. If there's a day you're at the show, I know there's some of you we've already talked with, we'll be catching up with. But yeah, we'd love to meet you, get to know you a little bit. Look for the, what's your highest shirts. Yeah. And look for my hats. Maybe we get some fresh t-shirts for that. Yeah, maybe we do. Fire up the cricket dog. Definitely be. Hey, all you guys out there, by the way, who are given my hat game love. Thank you so much. It really bothers Jason. I'm glad we talk about it every week because that's the only reason an adult would wear cartoons. It's hard to be talked about. I enjoy it immensely. The attention. I enjoy the product. The reaction. No. Yeah. Just the product. It's okay. Yeah. I'm a fan. I'm grumpy. I don't feel great. It's okay. You're allowed. I feel like I could do a really good, like, hold on, let me think. What would be a good, I feel like I could do a good stone temple pilots with my voice. I was thinking Oscar the grouch. Well, that too. We can get you a little trash can to pop up. Nationals up in less than a month. We just saw something on socials. PSA must've had a typo. There must've been something that was off because when we look at this, you said it to me, I'm not going to say the words that you use because I'm not sure they're appropriate, but shock and all shock and all. Well, less shock more off. Yeah. We went after we saw this. Well, it was like, okay, let's make sure this is real. So I have PSA's website in front of me. Let's go over the onsite costs, both for grading and for crossover service onsite express grading with card value up to $2,500. This one isn't terrible. It's 149 bucks. Drop it off. You'll have it by the end of the show. However, it just continues to climb. The highest tier is $9,999 and up on cards. Maximum insured value of $250,000. Little crazy. Now, if I have a high grade mantle rookie, maybe I don't care too much. What's shocking is how many people will be standing in line for this stuff with their $300 cards and that will happen. But here's the one that really got me. This is what really got me. You ever look at something, you're like, this information cannot be correct. Where's the typo? What am I misreading? You look over at five times. You're like, no, that's what it says. That is what it says. The crossover process. And if you're not familiar with crossover is, is instead of taking a card that's in, say, an SGC slab and cracking it out of there yourself and sending it to PSA directly, you give it to PSA inside that slab and they will grade it inside the slab. And if they think it will cross over to the minimum grade you're requesting, they will crack it out and holder it. At the national, and I heard someone say that this was the, we don't want to do this price, which that's the only thing that makes sense. At the national, the fee that PSA is charging you to just look at the card. And if they say no, you still have to pay the fee is $599. I hand them this slab. I say, Hey, if this, I want to cross this, I need it to be a 10. And they look at it and they go, yeah, it's not going to be a 10. That'll be $600 please. Now what's really fun is if they say, yes, you pay the $600, then you pay the grading fee on top of it. But wait, there's more. Which starts at $400. For cards up to what value? $25,000. That's the lowest price. The lowest price you will pay at the national to have this done on site is $1,000. Yikes. Or you pay $600 to find out you should not submit it. You know, you saved yourself $400. Wait, no, you didn't. You lost $600. And you're going to have to stand in line for the right to have them just hold you up at gunpoint. It's, it's insane. Like, I hope that none of you are silly enough to do this. To all of you glazing PSA is king. Do not expect less of this. No. Expect more of this. And if SGC is fading into the background, which we don't know for certain, but there's some things that indicate it's certainly possible. Expect more of this. This isn't going to get better. Yeah, the monopolization of the hobby is in full force. We're catching full stride. We got to get all, we got to get all those license under the same umbrella. And then, and then we're there, but. And don't get us wrong. We're not those guys out here saying that, oh, you should grade somewhere else. We live in reality. The reality is, is that PSA is king of the market. Your cards in a PSA slab are going to sell for more money. They are going to in the market, be worth more money, whether you like it or not. That's just the reality. Your SGC 10 is not worth as much as a PSA 10. Your BGS nine, five is not worth as much as a PSA 10 in the market. It may be to you. And if it is to you, you'll just own that card for a long time. Yeah. Cause it ain't gonna sell for what a PSA 10 does. However, PSA is absolutely leveraging that reality. So let's think through the math on this. Let's say that you're in that bottom tier, which 99% of what gets submitted that week will be card worth less than this is for a crossover and to have a slab. You're in five 99 and then another 400 to get a slab. So you're in a thousand dollars on grading costs. How valuable would a card need to be for you in its current slab at the current market for you to, to invest a thousand where that makes sense? It's gotta be eight grand plus at a minimum. Maybe you've got a, an SGC nine, five, or a BGS nine, five of a card that in a PSA 10 is worth. 15 grand, 13 grand, and it's worth eight or nine and the slab that it's in. Okay. I guess that probably makes sense, but you better be damn sure that it's going to cross. Otherwise it's 600 bucks out your pocket. Oh, and it probably matters more how you got into the cart, right? Did you hit it and grade it yourself? Sure. You might have the margin there, but man, thousand bucks to find out. Yeah. That's like, there's a part of me that's like, it would be nice with that cash as clay rookie to know if that BVG eight, five would cross over to a PSA eight. Cause we're talking thousands of dollars. Yeah. Is it worth 600 bucks? I'm wrong. That car will be worth negative dollars. Yeah. Yeah. Really quickly. 600 bucks to find out. You can find out while you're there. I don't want to know that bad. I don't want to know that bad. Hey, for the, for the value box today, I'm really excited to set this up. I know last week we talked about, uh, one of the biggest Ponzi schemes getting exposed with Chad Smith, Chad Smith cards. And some of you reached out to that. We had some of you commenting that you have had less than pleasant interactions with this guy clear back into the nineties. Um, so in some ways it's like, you don't like highlighting the negative side of the hobby, but it's really important that people are. aware of how this happens, that people are exposed when they do this kind of stuff, and that you do things to prevent that going forward. We also talked about scams last week and how we can avoid common pitfalls. For some of you, you were commenting, this is so obvious. Cool. Wasn't for you then. Don't get scammed. For the rest of you that hadn't heard, there's some ways to avoid it. But today I'm really excited. We're still talking about a side of the hobby that is a little bit on the darker side, a little bit, something that people can be down a little bit, more negative about, but I think it's super, super important with the way that the space is going, the way that cards get into collectors' hands, the methods we use for that. So we're going to be talking with Alex from CollectorsMD, who's going to share in this conversation not only how to become aware of a time where you can go from collecting to perhaps an addiction that could have devastating consequences in someone's life, to finding help and support to appreciate the hobby in a way that doesn't cause unnecessary harm. So we're looking forward to this conversation. We'll definitely be following up with that here in just a moment. All right. Today we are joined by Alex Efron from CollectorsMD. Alex, thanks so much for being here today. We appreciate you making some time to talk to us. Thank you guys. Thanks so much for having me. It's great to be on the show. Really excited to talk about CollectorsMD and the direction we're headed. Lots of momentum, lots of exciting things going on. And yeah, I just really appreciate you guys giving me the platform and the stage to continue carrying this really incredibly important message. Yeah, absolutely. Good introduction there. So tell us just a little bit before we get too deep into the weeds and questions, just an overview. What is CollectorsMD? Yeah, so CollectorsMD, and I can kind of talk about the origin before I dive into exactly what it is and what we do. But CollectorsMD started because I personally was living this issue firsthand. I wasn't some outsider observing the space, observing the hobby. I was fully immersed in it. I was deep, deep in the hobby and the art of collecting. Over time, what started as a fun passion turned into something a lot more overwhelming. I felt like I was chasing constantly. I was ripping late into the night, wee hours of the morning. I was justifying purchases that didn't make sense. And worse, I wasn't really enjoying any of it. I was constantly waking up the next day with a pit in my stomach, just feeling disgusted with the amount of money I spent and sort of the rabbit hole that I went down the night prior. So that moment where you look at a stack of packages or a bank statement and think, how did I get here? That's what really pushed me to start CollectorsMD. I realized there were just so many people out there quietly struggling, but no one was really talking about this openly and honestly. There were hot takes, jokes, memes, meme accounts, reposting people who, you know, open up and talk about what they're going through. But there really was no space for real, honest support. So I built what I wish had existed for me, a safe place for collectors who need to hit pause, sort of recalibrate and feel a sense of being understood and a sense of community. So with that, what CollectorsMD is, it's a movement for collectors navigating compulsive collecting and spending, especially break culture and hobby burnout. We're not anti-hobby, we're pro-accountability and we're pro-awareness. Those are really important things. And it was created for collectors by collectors. So when you talk about that pity or stomach feeling, right, like you're looking over the bank statement or the next morning, you're like, man, did I really, did I really convince myself two or three more breaks were going to get me back to where I needed to be to chase this deficit or whatever it may be? Like somewhere along the way, it was something you were very passionate about and excited about and something began to change. Are you able to look at your story or like the genesis of this and figure out here's where it went from a passion to something that may be destructive or addictive or like what were the things that you started to notice where maybe some red flags were going up, maybe you were suppressing them or shutting them up. You're saying that there wasn't really like any type of peer network to keep you accountable, to check on you, to check on your well-being. So what were those things you were seeing that were, hey, this has gone from passion to maybe something a little different? Yeah, it's a great question, and it's one of the hardest things to spot and identify because it blurs so easily, right? Like one day you're just collecting your favorite team, your favorite players, and the next day you're chasing a case hit you don't even really care about spending the money you told yourself you wouldn't touch, right? The hobby is an amazing place. It really is. It's it combines nostalgia, creativity. It's community driven. But when you mix in 24-7 access and gambling like mechanics and just this constant pressure to always keep up and be a part of the next, you know, big group break or product coming out, it can just it can start to turn on you. And, you know, we're seeing it happen more and more. People are just becoming so burnt out. Relationships are getting strained. Finances are getting wrecked. And because it still looks like a hobby, something that, you know, we enjoyed since we were kids, it's hard to call it what it really is, which for a lot of people is compulsion. And I always say it's not about villainizing, collecting. It's about helping people recognize when that joy is gone and the behavior has just, you know, completely consumed you and taken over. Interesting. That's that kind of leads to to a question for me, because when I think about the hobby and you reference break culture, we talk a lot about how breaking in and of itself isn't necessarily a bad thing, but it can become something really ugly sometimes. The chase aspect of what this hobby is about, in my opinion, has been around since the hobby started, whether you were chasing a Mickey Mantle rookie to stick in your bike spokes in 1952 and flipping cards with your friends to chasing Ken Griffey, Jr. In 89 upper deck at 36 bucks a box to now when the stakes have exponentially gotten higher, the cost of life has gotten exponentially higher. Do you think that addiction and compulsive behavior is something that has always existed in the hobby, or do you see that as something that is become a relatively recent trend due to outside forces? Yeah, that's another great question, because the hobby's been around for decades, if not centuries, right? Like people have been collecting cards for over 100 years. And the idea of the chase is sort of always been baked into the hobby, like since the very beginning, whether it was trying to complete an entire set or, you know, just land your favorite player in a pack that you picked up from the local store or just finding that elusive rookie, there's always been a sense of pursuit. Right. And over time, that pursuit has really just shifted from playful passion to high stakes pressure. I was actually talking to my dad about this when he was younger. You know, he collected cards. He was into sports, but like it was completely different. Right. They would they would take cards and put them in the spokes of their bicycle wheels. Yeah. They would flip coins and like, you know, you know, try to win each other's cards. And it was all like very engaging. And you were physically touching them. And nobody really cared about the condition. You know, it was it was. And enjoy it was like an enjoyable experience that you got to do with your friends, with your with your family. And, you know, I think it's just it's shifted so much. And so the question that you ask, do I think addiction has always been a part of the hobby? In some ways, yes, but not like it is now. The difference today is the environment, the digital environment specifically. We now have 24-7 access. There's constant product drops, live stream breaks, instant comps and social validation tied to every single purchase you make. So it's no longer just a hobby you engage with at your own pace. It's become something that's actively hunting for your attention and for your wallet. That social validation piece, I think, is probably and mistake me if you think or correct me if you think I'm mistaken here, but that piece has probably been the thing that has blossomed the most out of the hobby, where in some ways, you know, fanatics has been unapologetic, that they are evangelizing the hobby like big picture vision for them is that globally there are more people collecting in the sports space. Right. Yeah. But with that and the money that comes with it are the brands are the content creators are the people that are filming blogs. And so one thing that's. It's not shocking anymore to Gary and I, but we're set up at over 40 shows a year. There's kids walking up to us with deep into the five figures in their case that they've been wheeling and dealing and that year old kids, not not. Yeah. And they've been doing a trade up challenge for four years, and this is where they are. But. When you look at the, I guess, the fractional selling piece, the gambling aspect, if you will, I think it's safe to call it that there is a gambling aspect in this like there's doesn't seem to much be much in the way of safeguards or, hey, along the way, if you have like in reading your article, you know, that that just recently dropped, you shared that, you know, when it comes to the sports book, there's all kinds of warnings. There's all kinds of ways where, hey, if you need help, here's all the resources. Yet we have a group of kids where if your parents are cool with you breaking cards on whatnot, you're allowed to have your own stream as a teenager. And so I guess, where do you see. How could this be, how could this be more healthy, I guess, is what I'm trying to say when it comes to that social validation piece that we're rewarding what we want repeated, right? We tell the algorithm what we want to see, but how could we do this in a more healthy way or what could be added to the conversation? Like what's what's what's a truth that needs to be understood as people talk about having that big hit or buying that big collection or flipping that prospect card that they were chasing? Like what's missing in the conversation? And Jason, that's that's a really great question. And it's honestly, it's it's a multi-part answer because there's a lot that goes into, you know, responding to those things and layering in these these different levels of support and guidance for collectors, especially young collectors, some of these kids. So when you look at the gambling like behavior that is has become so prevalent in the hobby, especially, again, with younger collectors, there currently are no real safeguards in place. There are zero safeguards. There are no age gates on streams. There's no spending limits. There's no built in accountability tools. Like when you're playing casino, live casino on a on an app or, you know, sports betting. Generally, there are tools in place where you can set a cool off period. You can self exclude. You can set deposit limits. None of that exists on the current platforms that we have access to. It's an environment where kids can basically rip product at a rapid pace, spend money they don't necessarily have and subsequently be publicly celebrated for hitting a nuke or a banger, what these breakers call them these days, all while internalizing this idea that value equals worth, you know, which equals attention. And, you know, let's be honest, this isn't just a hobby anymore. It's become a gamified ecosystem like, you know, from from wheels in these live streams to random team breaks to, you know, trade backs to these hype driven countdowns and, you know, repacks. It's it's operating exactly like online gambling, but with with no protections. So what CollectorsMD is doing about it? Again, multi part answer. So first and foremost, there's a long question, of course. Yeah. First and foremost, awareness and education, awareness and education. So we're starting the conversation that many in this industry just have avoided for far too long. We have daily content, daily reflection specifically is a series of daily journal entries that I post every single day to make sure that we are, you know, staying relevant and mindful based on all of the news and industry related things that are going on. Obviously, you know, sharing all of this across social through additional content. We have our weekly peer support meetings. We're naming what's really happening, and that includes the ways kids are being exposed to gambling like behavior at younger and younger ages, which, again, is just not acceptable. The next is strategic partnerships. So we've partnered with groups like Birch's Health, which is a professional mental health clinic that focuses on problematic gambling and behavioral addiction so that we can offer our members professional guidance and therapy as they as they need it. We recently partnered with a company called Gamban, which offers basically app blocking software to gambling related apps and platforms. They've now added Whatnot and Fanatics Live, among several others, where people can download that software and be able to block themselves from accessing those apps. And we're. Also speaking with other companies and professionals who specialize in youth addiction and digital wellness to help inform our next steps. So there are gonna be more partnerships rolling out, but Birch's and Gambin specifically are the two that we rolled out earlier this month, or earlier in June. Now that today is July 1st. The next is support for parents. So we're developing resources and eventually toolkits to not just help kids and adults who are in the hobby, but also the parents of those kids understand the risks and learn how to talk to their kids about what's happening in the hobby. Because many parents just don't even understand or realize what live breaks or discord rooms, or a lot of these different social platforms actually look like. And then lastly, one of the most important, which is industry reform. So we're pushing for real platform accountability, whether that's age verification, just clear warnings, limits on live spending, or more transparency from breakers and marketplaces. We're not trying to shut anything down. I keep preaching, we are not anti-hobby. We just wanna be safer, smarter, and more responsible across the board. So all of this we recognize is a marathon. It's not a sprint, but if we want the hobby to have a future that is sustainable and healthy, we can't ignore what's happening, especially with this next generation. So CollectorsMD is here to make sure we support, protect, and empower those who are most vulnerable before the harm starts becoming irreversible. Gotcha. So with that being said, and I think this is a question that I don't know if you've gotten before, you probably have, I'm not that original. It sounds like there's a lot of partnerships happening peripherally that affect what's going on, which is fantastic. Have you had any success or have you had any conversations or do you find that the main players like Whatnot or Fanatics Live, are you getting pushback? Are you being seen as adversarial to them? Do you see a path towards them being part of the solution or do you think this is gonna be a fight? Yeah, it's a great question. And it's something that, again, is really, really important. The industry reform initiative that we have on our website is directed at those bigger players, the higher powers within the space. And honestly, having those conversations, getting those conversations rolling are challenging. It's really hard to sort of shout into a void and get a response, right? I mean, these companies have so much going on and the last thing they wanna do is open up a can of worms as it pertains to a governing body overlooking what they're doing and reforming their apps and platforms and everything like that. But it's really important. And I think it's probably best for them if they act proactively before somebody actually comes in and makes those changes. So we have reached out to Whatnot and Fanatics and we've had positive responses and feedbacks. Nothing sort of concrete yet in terms of actionable items. However, things are being looked at, things are being passed to the appropriate departments. I had a really positive conversation last night actually with somebody from Fanatics Live on the trust and safety team who is actively looking at what we're doing and passing it to the appropriate individuals. But to answer your question, we haven't had any really serious pushback. Nobody has really questioned what we're doing. I think a lot of this is glaringly obvious and people do realize that the nature of the hobby has gone in this sort of negative direction as it pertains to having these gambling-like mechanics and just becoming so synonymous with risk-reward type of features. So we're headed in that direction, but it's gonna take time. It's definitely a battle. So we have a tendency in our podcast to attract a couple of different audiences because we're not the young, cool guys on Instagram, but we're not the old set-builder-only kind of guys either. We're kind of somewhere in the middle with our age and we tend to have no problem pointing out some of the things that we're talking about being an issue. But I can be certain that there are people watching this or listening right now that are saying, is it really, all right, I hear what you're saying. There's been some people that have spent too much. They racked up some credit card debt. Is it really that, is it really that? You guys being dramatic with this, is this too much? What, like, while maintaining the dignity that should be in each person's story as they navigate this, can you help us get a snapshot of just how quickly and exponentially this challenge becomes a compounding problem? How, you know, I know Gary and I can think back early on when it was all on Facebook, right? People would go live and break. The first couple of times we saw somebody post about, I'm trying to save my family. I'm getting out of the hobby now. Everything's for sale, I don't care. Don't tag me in anything. I remember us being like, what is happening here? But to those listening that may be skeptical, is there a way that you could paint a picture of how far this can go and how deeply it's impacting lives and maybe even some of the things that family members may notice that should be a cause for concern? They should be asking a question. They should be making some help available and doing what they can. Yeah, it's a great question. And it's something that is a little bit of a challenge, because a lot of people outside of the hobby, especially parents, they don't understand the full scope. They don't understand how collecting sports cards or trading cards, Pokemon, can become an addiction or become something that looks like gambling, right? It just, they don't understand the nature of what a live break is and all of the nuances that come with that. How predatory some of these individuals can be. And we're not saying that, again, we're not villainizing the hobby or saying that every single breaker is a bad actor. At the end of the day, folks are just doing their jobs. They're trying to make money, put food on the table, and we respect that, we get that. But there just needs to be some accountability and some reform in terms of how these breaks are being conducted. So to answer your question, to illustrate kind of what this sort of process can look like, let's just say you hypothetically hop into a break last night, Monday night. Just, you decide to grab one team or just one box just to sort of scratch that itch. You don't hit anything, so you stay for the next break or you go after the next box just to sort of, just in case that case hit or whatever you were chasing is still lurking, right? Because the worst feeling is when somebody else comes in and grabs the next box and steals whatever you were looking for, snipes whatever you were looking for, right? And you got the breaker who's operating as the dealer, the marketer, the entertainer. Well done. All in one, yeah, exactly. They're hyping everything up. They're like, great value, great take. What a steal, I can't believe these teams are going for solo. They're creating the sense of FOMO, right? And so you kind of just get sucked in, you're mindlessly pressing buttons and bidding on teams or players or whatever the format of the break is. So you get in and then next break, still nothing. So now you're in a couple hundred bucks, but that dopamine spike hasn't hit yet. So you continue chasing. And all of this is sort of happening kind of subconsciously because you're feeling disappointed, but now you're in it deep enough where you just got to keep going, right? You have that devil on your shoulder that's egging you on. And then you see someone else pull the car that you were after, the one that you almost took the team for, like maybe you traded one of your teams or you had an opportunity to trade one of your teams right before the break started, but you didn't. And so that FOMO just hits, right? And so you get into the next break and you buy two teams this time and still nothing. And now you're $500 in the hole and you continue to just hit nothing. And so you just decide to go and rip a personal box and one becomes two and two becomes three. And next thing you know, you're a half case deep. And by the end of the night, you've spent thousands of dollars and you've sort of convinced yourself all of this is fine because you might hit something huge to replenish all the money you just spent. And at the end of the day, 99% of the time, you're just left with a pile of base cards and low-end autos or numbered veterans that are worth a fraction of what you paid. And this isn't just a one-time loss or a one-time thing. It's the start of a cycle. And if you're not careful, that entire cycle, everything I just repeated can start to happen night after night after night. And the losses compound and the guilt compounds and the urge to chase the next break, the next hit, the next dopamine spike, they all compound. So what starts out as like an innocent $30 quickly becomes 300 and then it becomes 3000. And it's all in the name of just having fun. It's just that, you know, again- Hobby positivity. Hobby, exactly. But for many, it's just not fun anymore. It's emotional, it's financial and psychological whiplash. And that's why awareness and intention matter so much and why, you know, Collectors MD exists because it's no longer just collecting. There are just too many layers to this. And it's just, it's become such a slippery slope as it pertains to chasing. And it's just so dangerous for so many people and they just don't realize it. Yeah, yeah. So what you're describing sounds a lot to me like traditional gambling addiction. Now, I think a lot of our listeners and people in general know the signs of drug addiction or alcohol addiction. What are some of the signs that a family member might notice as somebody who's for a family member that may be falling into this type of addiction? Is there something that people should look for to start asking questions, to try to bring it to awareness? Yeah, it's a great question. So you mentioned alcohol addiction, drug addiction. Obviously there's gambling addiction and personally, candidly, I had a gambling addiction myself and I attended Gambler's Anonymous meetings and I learned a lot through that experience. But, you know, as far as collecting goes, there was a missing link for me when I was in those rooms. My story didn't necessarily resonate with these folks because they just couldn't wrap their heads around the idea of collecting being an addiction. They just, again, they were on the outside looking in and they didn't understand the full scope of what I was talking about. And one thing fueled the other, you know, as far as like, whether it was the sports cards fueling the gambling or the gambling fueling the sports cards. But, you know, there are a lot of signs to look out for that family members and, you know, friends can, and loved ones, especially spouses can look for when it comes to, you know, those warning signs. I think it starts with the financial red flags, right? Money sort of just disappearing quickly with little to show for it. Obviously, first and foremost, frequent borrowing of money or asking for loans with vague explanations, unpaid bills or sudden financial hardship, despite, you know, a steady income. Selling personal items or collectibles they previously cherished, hiding bank statements or getting defensive about finances these are things we see all the time, especially among spouses. And then, you know, beyond just the finances, there's the time and the behavior shifts, right? Hours spent watching live breaks, auctions or just scrolling marketplaces often late into the night. So just spending way too much time on our devices, neglecting responsibilities that should come first, things, you know, at home, work, school, et cetera. Canceling plans or becoming sort of withdrawn to stay home so that you can join the break or, you know, not feel that sense of FOMO that, you know, your favorite breaker is going live at midnight and you wanna make sure you're in the live chat rooting everybody on. And then lying about, you know, the time spent online or like in hobby related forums or live chats. There's a lot of dishonesty that's going on with this where people are just, they're just lying to protect themselves or protect their addiction and they don't even realize they're doing it. So they're, sorry, go ahead. I was gonna say there are a few others. There's obviously like emotional and psychological changes, just becoming more irritable, moody or anxious, especially just after a bad night of ripping or financial loss, obsessing over that next product drop or hit or grail piece that you're chasing, justifying purchases with things like I had to, it was a great deal. I was due, and again, defensiveness and secrecy when people like put you on the spot and ask you like what's going on with your hobby habits. There's also compulsive patterns, just like chasing losses, never feeling satisfied, saying this is gonna be the last one, but then just jumping right back in, difficulty stopping. And then lastly, like the mental and emotional strain of all this, just feeling or expressing guilt, shame or regret after purchasing or ripping and mentioning feelings like I can't stop or I think I have a problem or I don't even really want this stuff. Most importantly, I think a lot of people just sort of use the hobby as an escape from stress, anxiety, or depression, or whatever issues they're dealing with in their personal life, almost as like a Band-Aid of sorts. I know that's something that definitely helped me when I was feeling down, two in the morning after my wife falls asleep, or sometimes even later, just hop into a live break and unwind that way, and everything, just like reality kind of disappears for a little while, and you're just chasing after that dopamine hit. It's like any other drug. Self-medicate with dopamine. Yeah. Exactly, exactly. So, you talked about noticing behavioral shifts, emotional shifts. When we, on the podcast, talk about just the math on the value in breaks, we have a tendency to have, I think Gary referred to this as like a legion of people who, they have their favorite breaker, they're believing this person knows how far down each of them are, and they're gonna do everything they can to sprinkle their magic pixie dust on the next pack, and take care of them, but I've noticed this real sharp defensiveness around this conversation with people, almost as if you're gonna ruin everything that's good about the hobby if you point out some of these harsh realities. It's like they're defending their dealer. Right, a little bit. Because they're still down, maybe. With claws out. Right. But how has fractional buying, or fractional participation impacted this? Because almost every time we get a strong wave of reactions, it's when we're talking about breaking. Now, just to be completely clear, Gary'll jump in a break, I'll jump in a break. We talk about our business model. We both sell cards for a living. We do not recommend breaking at any point as a model for making any kind of money in this space. Right. But it does seem like they're tethered together somehow. Like, the people that have a really tough time talking about this getting out of hand are the people that seem to, 90% of their sports card engagement seems to be around breaking. Is it just, I mean, is it just as simple as it releases the dopamine a lot quicker? There's more of a chase? Like, what's the element? Why has, I'm making an assumption that breaking is a big part of this. Why specifically do you think that fractional selling may be gas on the fire, if you will? And why do the people who are almost victims of it defend it so strenuously? That's a better way of asking that question, yeah. Yeah, it's again, a multi-part answer. I think breaking specifically, breaking culture is what has led us to a lot of this addictive behavior because it just mimics gambling so much so. And there are no guardrails in place. So people get sucked in really easily. There's the excitement within the live streams, the lights and the overlays. And again, the breaker just pumping up the chat. Everything is chat, chat, chat. You gotta like do, there's so much pressure. And creates this sense of FOMO, fear of missing out, where like you just, you feel like you're a part of something, you feel like you're a part of, like you found a place where you belong. So there are a few things. So the first is sort of the predatory selling tactics and the misinformation in the hobby. And that's something we had chatted about before we went live. I think a big issue is the predatory approach to selling cards and to pushing breaks. Breakers will lean heavily into hype and mislead with information or comps, push urgency or like use different gimmicks. Again, like the wheels and the trade backs, the repacks. Just, it's all very, very, you know, scammy. And it's all framed again as entertainment, but underneath it's just, it's a pressure cooker. People are spending more than they can afford because they're being manipulated by momentum and not logic. And, you know, again, the misinformation, it's like calling out comps that are flat out wrong, you know, is like the biggest offense there ever was. Just call it what it is, a flat out lie. Yeah, it's crazy. What drives me crazy is when breakers just use eBay to look up a comp and then they inflate the comp, but you really got to use like 130 point or card ladder to see what like a best offer was accepted for. It's, you know, we're getting into semantics of it, but breakers do that all the time. Like, wow, or they see something in the chat. I mean, just, they consider it Bible. Like it must be true. I saw it recently where they, it was a couple nights ago, I was watching a live stream because, you know, I'm still actively involved. And especially from like this side of the fence now, watching breaks or like watching a lot of this activity is important because I need to stay in the know and see what's going on, right? And so the breaker hit, it was a Brian, or what's his name? Brian Thomas Jr. on the Jaguars from the Mosaic Sparkle Packs, number two, eight. Nice card, don't get me wrong, nice looking card. But somebody in the chat said, oh, the last one did $700. And I'm scratching my head. I'm like, there's no way that's true. And I'm not going to sit there and call anybody out because that's just not what I do, especially these days. But $700, so I look it up and it's like, the last one did like 140 bucks. And next thing you know, the breaker's telling the guy who hit the card that he tripled his money and the guy's super excited, freaking out. I mean, it's just, it's- Your next break is free, right? And then that guy- Your next break is free. You already paid for your next two breaks, free. I have a list of buzzwords or like keywords that drive me absolutely crazy. And I keep it in a notes app. And the number one phrase on that list is paid. You know, when they tell you that you're paid and it's like, it's just the lie. It's a straight up lie. So, you know, with that, you know, the kicker is like, when somebody calls that out, it's just like, use a word that I really liked earlier, an adjective, visceral, it's like visceral. It's almost like tribal backlash and why, and so- Yeah, within that ecosystem, what's happening is, you have this community introduced through breaking that probably digitally were exposed to card collecting first. They're being introduced through socials and all this. They're getting their case full of cards that were these hits that are $700. They're walking into card shows, interacting with real humans that they're seeing face-to-face. I should say- You do this for a living. Digitally, they're interacting as well. That's a little harsh, I shouldn't say it like that. But they're face-to-face with other collectors in a room. Yeah. What I believe is $10,000 of equity or whatever they wanna call it. They're learning they have less than half of that. So they say, well, I'm not going to any more shows. Those dealers are crazy. Those collectors don't know what they're talking about. They only go for the lowest comp. And then they're just creating an echo chamber and staying insulated with the same group that's feeding. I mean, is that what you're seeing too? 100%. I mean, that pretty forward, but it seems to be like a self-compounding issue. Absolutely. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. It's like these breakers have like stands now, this army of keyboard warriors that just will defend them to the very end. And so, you asked why that is. And I think it's because for some collectors, these breakers have become more than just breakers, more than just sellers to them. They've become these personalities, these higher than, these holy heroes of sorts. And it's become like a community. And in some cases for them, it's like an emotional anchor, right? They look forward to watching their favorite breaker go live. It's like watching your favorite TV show, right? And when someone critiques that breaker, that person, it can feel like an attack, a personal attack on the entire group identity. So it's not just like, you're wrong. It's you're threatening the place where I have found this belonging. And there's also this sort of cognitive dissonance, right? You've spent thousands with a breaker, let's say, and someone points out that they're giving you bad info or scamming you or manipulating comps or whatever the case may be. And that could just be a really, really hard truth to swallow. So instead of like sort of reevaluating and taking a step back and thinking, hey, this person might actually be wrong for a change, people double down and just defend it at all costs. So it's tough because a lot of people are just so stuck in their ways and they're not going to be convinced one way or another, whether this is predatory behavior or not. And it's almost like they're brainwashed, sadly. So again, it's pushing the awareness and getting this message out there before it's too late across the board. Well, let's talk about that then. We've talked about a lot of what this looks like, how it affects people, the really negative impact a lot of this can have on somebody's life. Let's talk about your tagline and mission statement. Tell us what collecting with intention means and how that is implemented. Yeah, no, it's honestly our North Star. It's the most important part of CollectorsMD, collecting with intention. It's not about telling people what to collect or how to collect, it's about asking why, right? Why this card? Why this purchase? And it doesn't necessarily have to just be cards, sports cards, TCG. It could be any collectible item. It could be memorabilia, it could be sneakers, watches, handbags, NFTs, people collect- 67 Mustang. Cars, exactly. Like there's digital items or currency within gaming now. So it's all about evaluating why this purchase, why now, is it for nostalgia? Is it for connection? Or are you just trying to fill a void? Are you just trying to get that quick hit and then move on to the next? So collecting with intention just means being honest with yourself. It means slowing down, taking a beat, choosing quality over quantity and defining your own path in the hobby or your hobby instead of letting hype steer you. And it's also about community, having honest conversations, supporting one another and making sure or making it okay to say, hey, I'm struggling right now, I need help. That's okay. Because when intention leads the way, when intention is, again, your North Star, your guiding light, you actually get so much more out of the hobby, not less. For me personally, I at a point had over 500 pairs of sneakers when I was really deep into collecting sneakers. I had over a dozen cases or those Zion cases filled with slabs and top-loaded cards, just completely packed to the brim. And I couldn't really enjoy or appreciate what I had because one person doesn't need to have that much stuff. You have more than most dealers I know. Exactly. Like when you break it down, when you curate it, it allows you to appreciate what you have so much more. Again, one person doesn't need all that. So I now, again, I've reduced the size of my collection across the board, sneakers, memorabilia, cards, hats, jerseys, everything that I've collected throughout my life, I have consolidated it into much smaller sizes. And I just appreciate it so much more because again, I'm collecting with intention, not compulsion. So that's just, that's so incredibly important and something that I think people don't even take a beat to think about. I'm curious, this is one that we didn't talk about before, but as you're mentioning that, does building a PC help you to collect with more intention? Like kind of defining, it's like for me, Eric Davis from the Reds is my PC. Luckily for me, he's very affordable. But as a kid, he was somebody that was a legend to me. Does, when you're setting intention around it, like do you have a PC right now? Here's an athlete or here's a team. Does that help you in some way or not necessarily? Or? Yeah, I mean, I think it depends. It depends how you're going about collecting that specific player or a specific set. Obviously, focusing on a PC gives you a more clear target. So instead of like ripping everything that's new or like getting that sense of FOMO, so you have to join every single random break, you start asking yourself, does this card or does this set fit my collection? Is this a card I've genuinely been looking for? This simple sort of filter, you can call it, can dramatically reduce impulsive purchases. It's helped me a lot. Because like I've decided there are certain boundaries and they're not that serious. It's like, I just no longer collect horizontal cards or I no longer collect jersey pieces if there's no ink on them. I no longer really collect like die cuts or, I mean, it's like specific cards. I don't really collect defensive players in football anymore. You kind of just create these like personal limits that gives you a more refined, a more curated focus on what you're looking for. And it helps you collect smarter, right? A focused PC forces you to research which cards matter most for your player or your theme, like whatever the case may be, what price ranges make sense, where to find real value versus just the hype-driven chasing. You're more informed, you're less reactive and that can make the hobby feel more meaningful and just like less chaotic. It also builds like an emotional connection, whether it's like your hometown team or a player just who you grew up rooting for, like kind of brings back memories. A PC is very personal in that sense. And that kind of collecting again, like it roots you in nostalgia, connection, and joy, just not just that, that dopamine hit. But you know, it can also be dangerous, right? Because if you start to overextend, and you're like, I need every single parallel in the rainbow for a specific player, you're never going to get there, right? It's just it becomes lucrative, because the sets now, just every year, they add more and more parallels more 41 and ones this year, you know, more and more formats, like one of ones have lost their sort of intrigue and their their value, because there's such an oversaturation of them. Like, Victor women, Yama had thousands, if not 10s of thousands of different one of ones across every panini set every top set, you know, in his rookie year, like, that's absurd, you know, so it's like, and then everything is everything is the true everything, right? You're like, if everything is the true, then what is the actual true? It's, it's, don't let the market or the the hobby or the industry manipulate that. You get to make that decision. Yeah, with your own collection for you. And then the price to hand you on a silver platter, a product like mercury, knowing, knowing that that value is never, ever going to be seen. Yeah, within three months, it may fall. Now, is it unique? Is this a generational player? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And they're going to find one of those every year in one sport. It's going to be there. That's something that drives me to make money every day, the players are being the athletes are being exploited now, because the the manufacturers, the platforms, the breakers, they're taking advantage of the fact that these players sell. And they're using their likeness in a way that, again, is predatory, right? They're, they're like, you have to have Caitlin Clark, this product that came out yesterday. Oh, we, I mean, everybody sort of feels the same way a $30,000 ceiling on a Dutch auction. What are we doing? You know, like cards for two cards. And like, I respect the heck out of the fact that the WNBA has burst onto the scene. Yeah, Caitlin Clark has redefined what women's basketball looks like and how it's perceived and spectated. Like, I love that. I love the direction. But like, the fact that, you know, people are willing to pay that kind of money to chase the kaboom or the one of one or the what are they the lady logo man or the logo lady? It's it's silly. It's it's ridiculous, honestly. And every year we have we have something new thrown at us. When I was reintroduced to the sportscard hobby early on in the pandemic. Everybody was all about Zion and jaw. I mean, Zion and jaw couldn't be more yesterday's news. You know, if they tried. Yeah, every year it's something new. It's following year it was Antman lamello. I mean, it was more so lamello actually. And now lamello like, people don't really care as much about him. It's all about and Halliburton in that class. The following year, it was Kate Cunningham and Jalen Green. Jalen Green just got shipped off to Phoenix. Nobody cares about him anymore. Following year, we had Palo and Chet. You know, it's like every year it's something new. Now Cooper flag is is Yeah, all the hype. So next year, I'm telling you, it's gonna, it's gonna happen all over again. There's a kid coming into the league. His name is AJ de Ponce. I think you pronounce his last name. He's another generational talent once in a lifetime player that we're never gonna see again. Apparently the top five picks for the 2026 NBA draft are all arguably number one picks. You got Carlos Boozer's kid. There's a few others. But um, we get fed the same story every single year. Yeah, it's all it's all manufactured hype. Yeah. So we've been we've had a really good conversation here. So as we bring this to a to a close a couple questions that go together. And then one to finish out with because we want to give you a chance to kind of cast your vision and share some other ways that people can find you and your community. But I guess what resources do you guys offer to people? And how can people reach out to you to get started on that recovery? Yeah, so we offer a variety of things right now. So we talked briefly about the weekly support meetings. Again, those are private, safe and confidential virtual video calls, where collectors can share openly and connect with others navigating similar challenges. There is a Google form that you can fill out. It's basically just a screening form. But it allows us to collect your information, your email address and understand sort of your story and what kind of support you need. And then from there, we add you to the the weekly meeting. And you know, it's obviously not mandatory or anything like that. But you can come and go as you please. It's completely free, no strings attached. You join, you talk about what you're going through, share with others, hear from others. And it's just a really, really great way to sort of go through your first stage of recovery and therapy. It's very cathartic. So we've we've created a community through that, which has been amazing. We also produce content on a daily basis. So we have daily reflections. Those are basically thought provoking essays and journal entries designed to inspire clarity and intention in your collecting journey. Those are published every single day. Haven't missed a day since we launched collectors MD on March 26. We have other forms of content. So expert informed breakdowns, resources and personal stories designed to educate, inspire and help collectors reflect more intentionally. We have our podcast, the collectors comp, compass, it's called the collectors compass. Those are honest conversations with collectors, industry voices and mental health advocates just talking about, you know, the nature of all this and why collecting with intention is so incredibly important. We have recovery tools and educational resources. So those are tools and materials to help better understand compulsive collecting behaviors and how to manage them. We have our strategic partnerships, which we mentioned with birches and Gambin. And then lastly, the industry advocacy, we're actively pushing for reform across platforms, breakers and marketplaces to create a safer and more transparent collecting environment. So if you want to check out any of that, I know I just gave you a lot, you can go to collectors md.com. At the top, there are two different drop down menus, one for discover, which is basically all of our content, our news and announcements, inspiring quotes, things like that. And then there's one for resources. So that's where you can find access to the Google form for the weekly meetings, the collectors MD recovery guide, which is the foundation of our meetings, which was adapted from the gamblers anonymous yellow book, which we use in GA meetings, it looks like this, this is the GA yellow book that it was adapted from the industry reform initiative that I mentioned, we have a collectors MD hobby dictionary, so that you can stay in the know and educated and go about your hobby journey responsibly. And, you know, so you're not falling behind. There's a get help section. And then there's two sections that touch on our partnerships with birches and Gambin. So lots going on. We're on social, as well, across the board, you can check us out on Instagram, Facebook, tik tok, YouTube. x, we're also on mantle, that's a really great place to join the conversation and just be part of the daily content that we put out. Are you guys familiar with mantle? I am familiar only recently, I've been seeing a lot more on I have no idea. Basically, like a discord type of platform, but it's specifically designed for the hobby. So there's not like, you know, all the extra fluff that you would see on on discord or Reddit. But it's it's a really, really great place where you can you know, join different types of groups, or marketplaces and be a part of the daily discussion. So we're on there as well. Awesome. Perfect. Well, Alex, we can't thank you enough for your time. To do this. I know that when you reached out, we were like, somebody wants to talk with us on the podcast. You know, it's just, but the more we dove into what you're doing, I think what you're doing is essential. I think it's needed. I really hope that in the short future, anyone that's in this community of collectors that finds himself in a place or comes to a place of awareness, that they could use some help sees that that's what this is. This is not a place to to just dump shame on people. But it's a place to provide help and a way forward and a way to collect with intention. I really love that. That's a really beautiful resolve with what you're doing, is that you're helping to kind of restore what's beautiful about the hobby, essentially. And we can't thank you enough for your time. We'll be definitely encouraging any listeners if you're listening in take advantage of these resources. They are available to you. And we know we'll only be hearing more from you and collectors MD in the future. So thank you so much. Jason, Gary, really appreciate it. It was a pleasure chatting with you guys. And yeah, I'm really, really excited to see where collectors MD takes us in the coming weeks in the coming months. So thank you again for giving me this opportunity to talk to go into great detail about what we're doing. And appreciate you guys being a part of the journey. Absolutely. Thanks again. Thank you. All right. Thanks so much, Alex, for joining us. Hopefully you guys found that interview to be helpful. I know we learned a lot of things from it. And if you have any questions, or you want to reach out, Alex gave you all the ways that you can follow them. And if you need support, join their support group that is free, and you can get some of the support that you need. One thing I would add to, we talked about it last week. That element of guilt and shame that people can feel. Yeah, yeah, in dealing with that reality. And for you and I, we have firsthand seen people that we know, in this space very active in the hobby, lose way more than they ever should. Yeah, I mean, we're not talking about cards or money. So if if you're in that place, just know that there's help and there's support. And we encourage you to get that. And we encourage you we want to help you any way we can to find what you need. So be sure to check them out on that. Up next, let's move into low end liquid. This one is kind of a fun one. Now, well, there's this is your world there's different tiers of low end liquid. There's low end liquid. And some of you think $20 cards, there's low end liquid that moves for five bucks. And then there's the low end liquid you're probably going to get offers at like 175 free shipping on. Yeah. And we're down in the bargain basement today. For this The only reason I'm bringing this setup is when I sell one, I usually sell five to 10 of them at a time. And that is the collectors choice stickums. Now, if you're a product of the 80s or 90s, you definitely remember these there were some even later in the 90s. Oh, that's my favorite variation of these. This is not the stickums. But in the same family, the bobble heads, the bobbing heads is what they're called technically where you could that's a Clemens right there where you pop the head out, put it on a stand. A lot of these other ones that there are multiple stickers of each player. Just look at it here. I got Kenny Lofton. There's Cal Ripken Jr. A lot of big stars in the game and chances are you had one of these on your trapper keeper. Really good chance of it or it was stuck underneath the desk at school, or you put it on the wall and left it there for a couple months. And then your parents wanted you peel it off and you peel paint with it, whatever, whatever the cause. Sounds like a memory more than anything else. If you're buying these, buy them as cheap as possible. This is stuff that usually is in like a bulk box of nothing and you go pick through and there's 20 of them in there. You're in them under a penny apiece because you bought thousands and thousands of cards. What's your sell through rate on on some? I don't know exactly the sell through rate on this, to be fair, because I don't want to project it. But what I can say is when it sells, it may not be super, super quick. But when it sells, you're selling in multiple quantities. So this is more of a multi quantity slash low end liquid. It's not Oh, good. A new stick comes is out. There's a ton of these out there. But this is more of a nostalgic piece for people. That's why they're buying this. It's a really cheap set if somebody does do that kind of stuff. But I think if I've if I've dropped in maybe 50 of these, I've sold over half in the last few months. So there you could be off a little bit on that. But definitely want to keep an eye out for you will see them in like bulk. So don't sleep on that. If you're evaluating a bulk deal. Hopefully, if you're selling low end liquid, when I talk about some of these low end liquids cards, like when you're looking at the four row box, if you start seeing five, six or seven of the different low end liquid cards we've brought up in last 20 episodes, that means hey, there's stuff in here that's going to sell for me. That's the reason we're doing that. So hopefully helps you buy a little bit better, make a little bit more and move that money a little bit quicker. That kind of had a nice ring to it. Perfect. Low end liquid. You want to talk about some baseball? Let's talk about some baseball. So it's time for the lookout. Now, a couple things I want to say, the player I wanted to talk about this week, I didn't get the chance to because he got called up before we could record this episode. And that was Yankel Fernandez. Sure, you did. I was high on him. We talked about him last year, big power hitter for the Rockies. And then I also want to talk about another call up that happened before we can record this episode, which is a guy we talked about probably six weeks ago. And that was Colby Thomas for the A's. He is now on the major league roster. This week, we're going to talk about Joe Mack, who is a catcher for the Miami Marlins organization. He's in triple A. Joe was a first round competitive balance round A pick. So he was the number 31 overall pick out of high school in 2021. Never had any questions about his defensive prowess. Offense was a struggle for the first two to three years of his career, mostly because he really, really struggled with breaking balls. He still struggles to an extent with breaking balls. He's gotten better at laying off them. However, he used to be relatively passive early in counts. And last year, he changed his approach and started really attacking anything that looked like it was a fastball in the zone early in counts. And it made a massive impact in his overall game. Last year, he was fifth overall in the minor leagues among catchers and home runs. He had. He won the minor league gold glove award for catchers in 2024. So far this year, he's gotten the bump to AAA. He's got eight home runs. He's hitting .260 with a .343 OBP and a .420 slugging percentage. Now that's only a .763 OPS, and you might be going, why are you talking about this guy? Very simple. If you are a catcher in today's baseball and you are even moderately average at the plate, you're a big league starter, if you're a great defender. Can I interject? I never do during this segment. Yeah, yeah. Absolutely. Does what you just said point out how crazy big of a deal it is that Cal Raleigh's doing what he's doing? Yeah, absolutely. It's insane. The Cal Raleigh's don't exist. It hasn't happened since Piazza. We were talking about this. Yeah. The Cal Raleigh's, the Adley Rutchmans, the guys who are above average to really good at the plate and decent defense, Adley's a gold glove caliber defensive catcher. Cal Raleigh is not, but he's not a detriment back there. But Joe Mack is a guy who is going to be a gold glove caliber catcher defensively. He just handled a no-hitter the other day, as a matter of fact. But he also has some pop and can hit. The Marlins are in a position now to have a really, really strong platoon back there between Augustin Ramirez and Joe Mack. Joe Mack, his cards are in 2021 Bowman draft. They're still relatively affordable. Very reminiscent to me of a guy like Hunter Goodman, who's really made waves this year for the Rockies. He doesn't have quite the pop that Goodman has, but he can be a high-end 70% guy of a platoon and DH the other 30% of the time and get a day or two off a week to Ramirez behind the plate. Overall, I think again, a guy that's going to be up after the All-Star break, which is sneaking up on us really quick here. But his cards, one more time, 2021 Bowman draft, still very affordable and on a team that starved for as much help as it can get. I don't think he's down too much longer. Quick reminder before we head out today, for the end of this episode, we'll see you tonight, 7 p.m. Eastern on Whatnot, every single Thursday, one of the nice little buyer giveaways, this nice little B. John Robinson RPA out of select to $199, along with nine other buyer's giveaways and another 10 giveaway slabs as well. Be a part of it. Bookmark it. Hang out with us. Yeah. Anything else? No. We always go live on TikTok right before our Whatnot show, so if you want to come hang out with us for about a half hour there too, come hang out with us. This has been the Ball Card Show, the Esports Podcast. For the Esports Collector. Bye now.