Season 5 Ep. 34 Breaks With Kyle On Doing Repacks Right!

Hello and welcome to the Ball Card Show, the eSports podcast for the eSports Collector. I'm Jason Otero. I'm Gary Lomaster. And this is season five and episode 34 of the Ball Card Show. I'm so excited about today. Yeah, we got some really fun stuff for y'all and yeah, it was good. We are technologically, I mean if you've followed us for more than since January, you realize like the leap of faith that it was that we tried to put any of this on video, right? Yeah. We're not joking. We're idiots when it comes to this kind of stuff. And trying to figure it out on the fly. We're always afraid we're going to look stupid and not get it right. So yeah. Today we present to you our second ever interview. Yes. Very excited about it. Breaks with Kyle will be joining us shortly, which by the way, if you haven't given him a follow, he's been mentioned a few times from a video he dropped last week. Yeah. Involving one of our favorite people in the hobby, Jeff. Yeah. Kyle did a video, which we'll talk about- I don't want to spoil. I don't want to spoil. In the interview. I did a video following up on his. He was very diplomatic and kind and I was a much more aggressive as I usually am. Just a grumpy old man. Nothing new. And yeah. So we'll get into all that here in just a little bit too. Let's give a recap. If you've been following us the last couple of weeks, we have had a ton of shows. Definitely feeling a little bit of the road fatigue with the shows because we're doing a lot of the two-day shows or back-to-backs in different towns, which sometimes is more exhausting. We got another one of those this week. We got another one this week, but just to catch you up, a couple of weeks ago we had Grove City Car Fest. There's always a bunch of people there. Big names, big influencers, really clean. It's always clean space, a lot of foot traffic through there. That was a fun one. And then last week, I'll be honest, I can't wait for the next one. Yeah. You weren't really sure what to expect. I know when we talked about it. I had never set up at this show before, but I had walked it. And that's the Midwest Monster over in Indianapolis, Northeast Indianapolis Fishers. Such a fantastic show. The location is great. And what was a really pleasant change of pace for us was that it seemed like there were way more collectors walking the show and looking at cards and buying cards than there were flippers. Not that there's anything wrong with us. We sell to repackers and to flippers all the time. That's fine. But it is nice when you've got really unique pieces that there are people that come through and appreciate them and want to take them home with them, because those are our favorite things to buy. So to have other people appreciate them and take them home is awesome. Yeah. Definitely a lot more collectors in that space. It was fun to be in my home state of Indiana. That's where I call home. Lived in a few places growing up, but for the most part, from like fourth grade through high school, Southern Indiana was the spot. So it was really cool. I ran into an LCS owner that's in Jasper, Indiana. Just down the road from where I grew up, where Scott Rowland's from, I believe where he played baseball in high school. Could be wrong, but I'm pretty sure he went to Jasper. That was awesome. And I'll just tell you this. When it comes to sports cities for collectibles, Indianapolis was a hot sports market. And then you look around, you realize there's a good reason for it. I haven't taken the time to appreciate what a smaller market sports town has been able to pull off. Right now they have a really relevant and good balanced football team. They have Caitlin Clark, not a bad thing for the hobby. The Pacers are pretty good. Pacers are really good. I'm selling Halliburton's super fast. They seem to not be concerned at all about his recovery because the town believes in him. But the sports card market in Indy is alive and well. It was popping, man. Yep. It was a great show. Of course, what didn't hurt it was we had one of the relationships we talked about with Repackers that was looking for that lower price band. So when you start your show moving a massive stack of the $15 to $100 stuff, it's just everything. It just takes the pressure off a little bit. Ran into some people at the hotel lobby that are fans of the pub, had a drink. Catalyst Motorsports is a sprint car driver. So that was just a really cool experience to talk with him and his buddy that they work on. He works on cars too. And it was their first show. They heard us talk about the show. Yeah. They reached out to the promoter, drove nine hours in from Nebraska, and this was the first show they ever set up at. And they had a really great show. And they crushed. Yeah, they crushed. They crushed. They did a lot of business there. So Midwest Monster was fantastic. Can't wait for the next one. I was nervous because first one in, grabbing two tables, you're not going to be into prime real estate. We were in the back corner, banner facing away from the entrance, right on loop, right across from, who was great in authenticating? We're across from the JSA. JSA. Good grief. I couldn't think of it. That was probably helpful to us, right? Because it slowed people down a little bit. People hung out. But there was so much foot traffic and so many collectors through there that just day one alone, if it was a one day, would have been successful. Second day was really icing on the cake. And then you and I had been scrambling for inventory this week because we got hit so heavy. Next couple of shows we have coming up and then a bit of a breather, whatever that means. So we've got- I'm taking vacation. That's what that means. Xenia this weekend, which is October the what? What day is today? It's the 11th. Today's the 11th? No. The show is on the 11th. Yes. And Xenia, Ohio will be set up in building two as always. And the following week, Eastgate and Cincinnati at the Eastgate Mall will be set up there. And then Gary's going on vacation, but he's doing a show in Florida. Yeah. If you're listening and you're from Florida and you thought, I'd like to come out and meet these guys at some point, but I'm not going to be in Ohio or the Midwest. And I'll be settling for the lesser of the two in the podcast. That's all a matter of perspective. I will be set up at the Space Coast show in Melbourne, Florida, right there at Cape Canaveral on the 25th. It's a two day show, the 25th and the 26th. I will not be set up on the 26th because I will be putting myself onto a cruise ship that morning. You need to generate some of that poker money for the casino. If they have a poker table. Is that a thing now? Sometimes they don't. Some of the ships don't. So I hope it does because I usually pay for most of the trip that way. I've also seen you not do that. That's true. The trip we went on where you just got. Well, so when Gary wins, nobody else is there. When you go with him, it just doesn't seem to happen. Here's what happened. From my personal experience, that's what's happened. Also, our friends missed an anniversary dinner because you didn't step away from the table sooner. And I'm not sure you raked on that one either. That's not why. I did rake on that one. But that's not why. Yeah, that's dinner. I'll tell you that. That being said, the time that Jason was talking about. No, we don't need to get into all that. I'm right. You're wrong. Let's move on. I don't normally play cards in an altered state. And we were- You were in New Orleans. Well, no. This was on the cruise ship you're talking about where I just got destroyed in like four hands because I could barely see the cards. That happened. All right. Let's keep it moving here. I didn't want to go that route, but here we are. Family friendly show. We have Eastgate, Xenia. He's going to be set up Cape Canaveral. And then we may be filling one in at the end of October. We'll keep an eye out for that. If that happens, it'll be me, not Gary, but we need a week off here or there at some point. We do have some hobby news to get to real quick. Yep. Let's jump into it. eBay has a groundbreaking announcement for eBay Live. I like how it's like this. So here's the reality. The scale of eBay is so much larger than the scale of what NotReach. Oh, yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And there's probably people that would argue that, but just on sales that you can track, right? What's moving through cards on eBay versus that. What Not's been around, Fanatics Live, eBay drops eBay Live. It's hard to get in there. It's hard to get an account to sell live. But if you do, you'll be greeted with 300 people watching you run base cards. Yes. In the current situation it's in. eBay decided last week to announce a big update to the live selling platform. You've heard of standard auctions with extensions, but have you ever heard of sudden victory? Do microphones pick up the sound of eyes rolling into the back of someone's head? Now, I know what you're wondering. Is that the same as sudden death? No, because it's sudden victory. It's one of the three or four dumbest things I've heard in the last five or six years. Well, but it's not death. It's victory. It's one of the three or four dumbest things I have heard in the last five or six years of my life in this hobby. I'll leave it at that. It's like when Michael Scott declares bankruptcy and they say, Michael, you can't just say I declare bankruptcy. I didn't say it. I declared it. It's not a death. It's a sudden victory. It's the dumbest thing. So yeah, that's happening. What will that do? That will make more auctions happen. I think that's the reason that you do that. I think people that choose sudden death versus extended auctions, there's environments they're going for, but one of the bottom line issues for people that do that is if it is a sudden death, sudden victory format, it does sound so dumb, you will be able to run a lot more cards in a shorter period of time because the auctions aren't extending. You spread that out over three to four hours. That's a lot more transactions, which translates to more fees being paid. So I also think collectors like things to keep moving sometimes. So for some rooms, that's going to make more sense, but eBay just rolled that out. You want to take this next one because I'm very excited about this. Yeah. So this is news that we're recording this on a Wednesday. You're going to get this on Friday. So it's going to be two days, but this dropped an hour ago for us. Topps, a couple of years ago when they introduced the gold mirror parallels, introduced a bounty with that. If you completed the whole set raw, it was, I want to say $250,000 and if you completed the whole set and it was all PSA 10s, it was like a million dollar bounty. They've now released another collecting incentive. This one's going to be a lot tougher and a lot more expensive to do, but it's called the Three Kings Promotion. If you are able to collect the Bowman First Super Fractor, the Topps Chrome Rookie Super and the MLB Debut Patch Auto of the same player, you will receive a special inscribed one of one card called the Three Kings card for that player. Now this is really cool. It's also going to cost you $20,000 to $50,000 to do if you want a player of any relevance whatsoever. What I do like is I'm seeing fanatics try to do things to incentivize collecting. My hope is that they will continue to expand that and introduce it to a more attainable range where it's still a challenge, but say you complete the whole Topps Chrome set in the of $199 parallel. That's going to be challenging. It's not going to cost you a complete arm and a leg to do and if there's a positive reward for it, it's going to incentivize set building and all that type of stuff, which is going to help everybody in the economic ecosystem of the hobby. You know what I could picture? What's that? So one, it's really smart that they decided to do this across multiple products because eventually if the goal is, hey, it's more expensive to buy cards now, then the rewards need to be bigger as well. And so you're going to have to, if you wanted to rip through this, that would be an insane challenge. It's probably not going to happen. You would have to be the luckiest person on earth or I'll just leave it at that. I don't want to head down that rabbit hole, but you get the idea. It's going to be really tough to do that. What I think could be really cool down the road is, let's play this out for a second. Imagine, so what just dropped? NBA. Yeah, Topps. Topps NBA just dropped. And if there's a subset in there or the complete, let's say you build a master set of the rookies or let's just say you bought, let's do a subset of all the green foils of a rookie, if that was a thing. Right? I'm not going to do that checklist yet, but if that was a thing and you could take it into your LCS and you would get one of those Topps hoodies or something that it may not be super expensive, but it's a nod to you and you get to show to everybody else, hey, I built the set out. It's kind of cool. The even better thing would be if fanatics can find a way where financially it makes sense to incentivize that and people get to keep their set. I don't know how they would do that, but I think that's important. That's exactly what they've got to be able to do. If you remember back in the day when Madden Ultimate Team first came out, it's very similar. You would complete collections with cards and then you would get a reward. You could still use the cards that you collected, but you couldn't trade them or sell them to anybody else. So that would be- By the way, deep track, Ultimate Team. Do you remember that one winter you and I made a fake business out of sniping random cards on Ultimate Team? Oh, yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And you guys told me, I hit a Christmas pack and pulled a 99 overall Bo Jackson and what did you say? You better sell that now because it's going down. He was believing this even back then and I sold it for like 1.3 million coins and I'll be darned if it wasn't worth two and a half million one month later. Yeah, and then it went down. It doesn't matter now, but at the time I was bothered. But yeah, I think incentivizing the collecting portion. If people are saying, there's no collecting anymore. It's only the chase, blah, blah, blah. This is something Fanatics can do. It's a relatively lower cost. I mean, you could even make it a requirement. If you wanted to give something out, you have to bring in a UPC of the product you opened. Yeah, I think there's even a way to verify that they spent money with them. Because people, it doesn't matter whether the person redeeming it spent money. People have to open the product to get all that stuff out. Another really interesting thing that we discovered this week. If you're not familiar with Gemrate, they are an account across socials that tracks the number of submissions and cards graded per grading company. We've said for a minute since PSA bought SGC that they have been slowly but surely dismantling and tearing down that brand. We have now seen factual evidence of that. For the first time in, what, three or four years, SGC has slid to number four among the major grading companies behind Beckett. That's including non-sport. That's including non-sport. But in order, it is now PSA, CGC, which CGC is 80% TCG, then Beckett, and now SGC, which is a really interesting thing to see happen. I think at some point, the conversation around this is, we've said it many times, it would be really nice for there to be more competition in this space. Ultimately, the... consumer collector wins when there's more competition in the grading space. But it seems pretty clear that for the foreseeable future, PSA is king if value is the most important thing to you when you send off a card for grading. I would say more than 85, 90% of people that send cards off for grade, probably 885 is fine, send them off for value. I would be shocked if there were 15% of people that just send them off to only protect the card or, well, it was my collection and I just wanted to have them graded, nothing wrong with that. But I don't see that changing anytime soon and us wanting it to happen won't make it happen. The only thing that happens is when the money moves in other directions. PSA was really smart cornering the market by having this parent company acquire SGC and basically choke it out because it gives them more employees and it gives their competitors basically done. They're their number one competitor. So now you have, you're competing if you want to with CGC for the non-sport market, even though PSA props up a higher value. The last time you and I saw a big bump like this in any, in the hobby was going to be during COVID and people were sending off a bunch of stuff not worth sending off. Yeah. Pokemon people don't believe this now, but two or three years from now, you're going to see it. There was a lot of stuff sent off in this 2025 calendar year that probably shouldn't have been in hindsight, but PSA is not concerned with CGC's cut of the market. I don't think they'd like some of it, but I don't see them seeing that as an issue. Beckett on the other hand, still has made several poor decisions over the last 10 years in the grading front of things. I still hold out that they could be the dark horse that at some point figure some things out, but it's going to get harder. They need a leadership change. Yeah. They need somebody with a vision to come in there and I would love to see them hire the guy who resigned from SGC. That'd be smart. That would be smart. So that's our hobby news for this week. With this grading thing, we did say one thing I wanted to bring up. So what do Gary and I do? We aren't crazy about PSA. We definitely don't send off a ton of cards to grade, so we're not the premier experts on this. We've talked before about our philosophy. So our philosophy in general, regardless of who you're grading with is, is it a large enough raw card that you can buy with margin to where if it didn't 10 and it got a nine or an eight or whatever that number is where it's kind of a breakeven point, you are still okay on the card. Like if you sold for a hundred percent, you're good. So for us, probably around the hundred dollar mark, maybe like 75 to a hundred is the low end of that. But the bigger thing that we're looking at is what are the cards that multiply at an eight or a nine, right? So the first easy answer is vintage. That's a, if you're not familiar with the vintage market, boy, you can really get burned on that. You got to know your stuff. The market we see the most opportunity with grading outside of PSA is late nineties, early 2000s, basketball, football. Right now, the stuff that, look it up, it's rare, it's an expensive raw card, but in an eight it's a multiplier. In a nine it's a multiplier, whether it's a Beckett slab, SGC doesn't matter. That's what I would be targeting right now. I bought a card like that this weekend. Yes, you did. The finest, top's finest rookie, finest heirs Kobe, the gold and not the refractor, just the gold, which is a card that has skyrocketed over the last month and a half and in an eight it's a multiplier over what I paid for it. Yeah. Well, you're going to be excited for this next little section. It's time to recap. Two weeks in a row, but let's recap our NFL picks for last week. What's our record now? Let's just rip the bandaid. Where are we? I am now 27 and 20. You are 29 and 18. Two straight weeks I have drastically closed the gap. Once again, I went four and one, you went two and three. We're closing that gap, that little heater you were on early. Two weeks in a row the heater's off. The heater is off. One of those games, I should have known better. I should have known that you can never believe in the Miami Dolphins. You can have the highest hopes in the world. It's Christmas morning and your birthday. Of course it's a white Christmas. Santa Claus actually slid his fat butt down the chimney. You got a pair of socks. The Dolphins are playing and they're going to lose. It doesn't matter. Not just losing, but the way that we lost. The way that we, we, we, because I feel the pain too. The way Miami lost that game in dramatic fashion was just- They left too much time on the clock. I'm picking them as a loss. If you pick them every week for the rest of the year, loss. The good news is, is we're not going to pick them this week. You can hardly talk about them. All right, let's jump in. Let's get into this week's picks a little quick because we definitely want to get to this interview with Breaks with Kyle. Here we go. Starting off, Dallas at Carolina. Dallas. I'm going Carolina here. I'm going to circle mine so we remember where we- Yep, that's perfect. I'm going Carolina. I will circle mine as well. Carolina showed me something last week and they're at home again and they've been a different team at home than they have been on the road. Did Carolina show you something or did Miami show you even more? I mean- A combination of both. A combination of both, but I mean Miami went and scored with three minutes left to take the lead on a nice deep ball from Tua. In the past, Bryce Young and the Panthers would have probably curled up and just called it a day and they went out and scored. This is the Miami defense. All right, that's fine. Seattle at Jacksonville. This is a fun one. I'm going Jacksonville. Yeah, me too. They're heating up. It's fun to watch. It's weird. I haven't paid enough attention to the T-Law market. Everybody's been begging for it to climb so it's going to take quite a bit, like a deep playoff run, I think, for that to change much. This next one's a fun one. The 49ers at the Buccaneers, 4-1, 3-2. I got bucks on this one. As much as I hate to say it- I'm right. I'm going to go 49ers. What's your reason on that? Kyle Shanahan is my reason on that. They just figure out how to win games regardless of who they stick under center. They just figure out how to win games and that defense is pretty good. Buffalo at Atlanta, 1-2-3. Buffalo. Yeah. All right. That's an easy one. This next one's not an easy one. No, it's not. Detroit at Kansas City. What week are we on now? This is six. All right, so Mahomes, whatever cobwebs he has, he's usually got them shaken off by now. Last week of Rasheed Rice's suspension, I believe, because he's on my bench for fantasy. Week seven. I'll tell you what, Detroit with momentum is a force. Yeah, but Kansas City with momentum is also a force. I'm going to allow my love for Dan Campbell and my disdain for Kansas City at times to win out here. I'm going to go with the Lions. I'm going to go with Casey only because it's in Casey. If it was in Detroit, I'd go the other way. That is the hardest. Yeah. If it was the other way, I'd pick Detroit. I will tell you, that is, hands down, top three toughest environments to play in in the NFL. Yes. A lot of people, it's in their top one. That was before they were a dynasty team, so it's even tougher now. All right, so how many different ones do we have there? One. Let's see. Two, three. Three different ones. Three different ones. It's not an even number. I like that. I like that. We'll see a little shake up this next week. Up next, super, super excited for this. You may have seen one of his videos that popped off on socials, super active in the TikTok space. He is what we would call an ethical repacker. Yes. We've spent a lot of time talking about repacking and saying that there's good ones out there. Kyle with Breaks with Kyle is one of those guys that we have confidence to put our stamp and say we're comfortable with how this person runs their business and there's value in their repack, but we want to talk about some of the mess that's going on, the updates that Whatnot has put in place for repacks, what will not exist anymore, and then for those of you that are on the business side of the table like us, hearing a little bit more behind the scenes of what's it like to run a repack business and what is the work that's involved. Anything else you want to say before we jump into this? No, let's talk to Kyle. We are so excited to have, do I say our favorite repacker, Gary? Is that safe to say? Sure. I mean, I'm not trying to fanboy too much here, but just we've mentioned him before. He keeps dropping really great content and doing work around the repack space. Last week he had a video that popped off, got attention for a lot of reasons. We'll dive into that here in just a minute, but it's our distinct pleasure to welcome Breaks with Kyle to the Ballkart Show from North Cali. Here he is. Go Kings. Thank you. Pumped to be here. Oh man, we're so excited to have you out. You've been on our radar for a while just because you've offered a different perspective. Inside of a space where there's a lot of controversy from time to time. Not that selling singles and grading and all these other topics don't have their own issues, but repacks have been on the front of mind for a lot of people, especially in this calendar year in the industry. But one thing we notice is when you decide to share an opinion that may be different, you stand on business and you say what you're thinking and it's well thought out. We really, really appreciate your thoughtfulness in your content. So as we saw last week's video, it was like, we got to get him on here. I think that our audience would love to hear from you and get some perspective from you. Before we jump into this clip that was talked about last week that you dropped with the whatnot updates and different things happening there, could you help us out? We have a lot of Gen X, old school card collectors that follow this space, traditional show dealers. They kind of do most of their work in and out of the shows, but they keep hearing more about repacks. They're seeing it. They've heard horror stories. They've heard good things. Let's hear from an expert, Kyle. I would love it if you'd give us the one-on-one lesson. What are repacks? How do they work and why are they so popular right now? Yeah. So I actually didn't know what repacks were until about a year in the hobby. I didn't even know they existed. I saw a couple of channels doing them, and basically what happens is they buy a card, put it in a box. I think repacks were for repackaged cards. So I have a guy who buys cards for me. We try to get great deals on them, and then we put them in a case of boxes that I don't know. He ships them, sends them to me. I have no clue. We add our costs and everything, and then we just open them. On surface level, I know a lot of people are thinking like, oh, well, there's a lot of things that could happen in that process. It helps to be transparent. So that's kind of how we've done our end of things. But as far as, you know, you asked just repacks, I tend to ramble. We go out, we hunt for singles, and then we put a ceiling in there, put a really big, I think our ceiling on our big box is about 2,000, floor is about 200, and we kind of try to build cases in between that. Put some good value in the cards, and that's how we roll with them. So when we heard about them initially, the phrase that we heard, Gary, correct me if I'm wrong, was it was always mystery packs, right? That's where it started, was a mystery pack. How much of a mystery should it be? Help me understand, because I think that's, in understanding the product, that's a big part of it. So people will say to us, so they don't know what they're getting, but there's a little more going on there than just a complete mystery, right? Correct. Yeah. And that's what I hear a lot, too. People love the checklist, and I'm not against it. If people want to have the checklist of what they can hit when we're ripping it, that's something that other repack channels do. We don't do that here, though. You said mystery, I kind of call it the element of surprise kind of thing. And I think it helps to show, because one thing that we do, and I know you guys have seen it, is every card we pull, we show the value of it. So I think as long as you're transparent on either showing what the cards are or showing what the value is when they come out, I don't really think there's a wrong way to do it. I know people love checklists. I personally, I kind of like buying into repacks because we'll see stuff come out that I haven't seen in years. Last stream, we had a Jim Brown rookie card. How often do you see that on anywhere? So it's just stuff like that. I would rather have that come out with a, whoa, that's cool, than seeing it on a checklist before, if that makes sense. That's interesting. Yeah. It's kind of how we do everything with ours. We just stuff you don't see in a while and that maybe you want to keep. And when you break a case of repacks, how many boxes are usually in that, or does it just depend on the product, or how does that work? Yeah. So for us, we have our lower one, which is about 40 to 250. We call it a Nova and there's 25 in that case. Supers 200 to a thousand, Supernova 20 in that case. And then we have our big bangs, which we've kind of tested a little bit. It's a really high end card. The problem is though, is that the higher the card, the more the buy-in. So we try to kind of make it make sense, but this one, that one's a little tricky, but mostly that's our two are the Supernova and the Nova. Cool. I want to give you props. We're going to ask you a little bit more about it here in a minute. When I was just scrolling through TikTok and I saw a repack and anytime there's a new one, I like to just watch and see what's getting opened up because TikTok is a wild place for this market. Circus sometimes. It is a wild, it reminds me so much of what was happening with singles and breaks three to five years ago with the discussion around it and the new people popping up with the business every other day. But when we scroll through and I literally sent Gary the link, I was like, you're not going to believe what this guy's doing. He's literally got card letter out. I've never seen this before at a repack break. I was legitimately excited. I was like, if people realize that they can be transparent, they can be very successful with this. So props to you. Kudos. Thank you. Yeah. Ready to get into a little bit of dirt. Now we gave every, that was the softball. Now we can get in and we get to talking about, so in the context of understanding this, what not drops this big update. Okay. And all we're seeing all over. So if you're a traditional show dealer, you don't do a lot of repacks, you're just seeing big update that affect a lot of people. Here's the reality. We know there's an update. We know it impacts the repacks. What we don't know is exactly what that means. So what was allowed that's not anymore or what's your understanding of what they're looking for going forward? And then like, is it good? Is it bad? What does it change for you? I guess. So what does this mean with this update? Yeah. I mean, I've thought about it and, and honestly, like I don't really know yet because it's, it's, it will be, that's the thing though. People will find a way to do it if they really want to do it. Um, and, and with what not, I, I've, I've never broke over there. I've seen a couple, um, but I have a hard time thinking that they're going to impact the big guys. I think this is more going to affect like people who want to start doing this or kind of the smaller guys, kind of like me, um, where you have to now get the third party. I'll. pendication and it has to be shipped to a separate business who does all this and then sends it to you sealed and you have to show proof of that. That was kind of my understanding for what they were some of the requirements now. So what I understood it to be was there were two ways that people were going to be able to operate in that space on whatnot going forward. Way number one is what you just said, which is you have to, you're not packing it yourself, you're buying a repack product from, unfortunately, a company like Jeff's grated grails or hit parade, or one of those places. Or alternatively, you can still pack it yourself. However, you have to provide whatnot with a complete checklist. And that checklist has to be publicly available to your buyers at all times. Okay, that was my understanding. Okay, yeah, I read up on it. I missed that second part. So yeah, but still, again, I think I mean, and whatnot allows you to use a randomizer. So it would be easier with that public checklist. I've always kind of thought how that would affect tick tock, you couldn't really sell out a break if you have a public checklist. And like, you know, for example, this team's not going to hit that team's not going to sell. So again, it would affect the little guys. And for what not specifically, though, like I've seen a couple, I don't really know. Let me think on this one. Actually, I didn't know about that update. I just read the first part of it. So yeah, I might circle back to this one, if that's okay. Yeah, no, you're fine. I think on it. Sorry. It sounds like one of the things that's coming to an end is the hit that's not really a hit that leads to another possibility for a hit. And then a wheel and then a randomizer. And then it sounds like some of the house gaming that's like wrapped into some of these products that are not as traditional. Here's the product by a spot, like creating chases inside, which ultimately just hedges the bet for the for the house, right? Like, mathematically, that's what's happening. But it can open the door for for bigger stuff. Yeah, it sounds like some of that's going to be affected by it. Yeah, and it also is going to cause if you're packing this stuff yourself, and you have to put a full checklist out, your floors can't be complete trash. Nope. People aren't going to buy in. They don't want your SGC nine third year Bowman paper, Julio Rodriguez. Yeah, you know, as a floor 30 because it's graded. Yeah. Yeah. Right. Well, the grading costs alone, right? Yeah. It's like when we're running singles, like it's in a mag, guys. It's in a mag. Yeah, but no, I sorry that that part caught me off guard. I forgot that I didn't realize that they did that too. But that's a great point with the with the furthering of the hedging and the floor to especially like it. I say it all the time. If the ceiling isn't hit is the case worth it. So I think that that's going to be something that forces them to build like a better version of that. Because I mean, I like have you guys seen Chumlee? Yeah, yeah. I mean, I wouldn't get into it. But I love that. He's like 25 cards. One of them's great. All the other floors like at least he's telling you right? Yeah. So at least you know that going in. But I think it's gonna force right now by the way. He's what he's raking it in right now. Yeah. He pops up all the time. And I'm like, this is kind of cool. But yeah, but with a with a verified with the checklist, like you brought up the small guys are gonna have to do. It is gonna be tough. Like they better be kind of on their a game with what they have showing because if it's not like that's the first thing people will look at. Yeah, it's a question I get all the time floor to ceiling. So you know, they're gonna be checking that. So yeah, it's gonna be some people to think long term from a business standpoint. And I think one of the things that has plagued the repack space, in my opinion, is a lot of people who think they see fast money to be made. And there's no accountability. So we can get in, hit hard. And if it all falls apart, we raked cash for a while, it's going to force people to actually think about their long term customer base. How do I keep people around? Exactly. Yeah. And it I think sometimes to that shows like when you see, and I'm not talking about any specific channel, but I've gone, I've gone, I've gone to those rooms where you'll see like, they got like 50 60 70,000 followers. There's only like 30 people in the room. Yeah. All right. What's going on here? Like why got such a big footprint, but kind of what's happening. And that's a great point you brought up. I think taking care of people and showing that goes far, especially with a repack. I would never want people to feel to give me, you know, and there's a next question, but I would never want people to feel like they gave me money, and then just feel confused. Like, wait, I thought the card was supposed to be 40. Now it's 20 bucks. Yeah, trying to sell it. And this guy's like, I'll give you 10 for it. And it's just I, I've had that feeling buying into a break. And it just makes it makes you sick. Yeah. Because you think you got something and you don't. And then you just feel, you know, bamboozled, for lack of a better word. So yeah, the checklist will will prevent that, I think. So following up on that, like Jason said, in when we were introducing you, one of the things that really drew my attention was that you decided, and I know your platform's grown since then, I think partly because of this. And that's a positive thing. You decided at some point, you had seen enough of these types of repack breakers. And again, we won't mention any names, but you had seen enough of this type of repacker that you were going to stand up and say, Hey, guys, enough's enough. Like somebody's got to call a spade a spade. What made you decide, OK, it's time to pull the trigger on this and, and stand on business? Yeah, so you're not, you're talking about the first one, right? There are two of them. There's, I've stood on business two times. But yeah, the first one, like, honestly, it, when I first saw breaks, I got into a room that I, you know, I trusted, I enjoyed. I actually ended up breaking with this company. And then I left to start my own thing. But one thing that we always kind of did, and one thing that I love doing was just being transparent. And, and I think that goes so far with this, because kind of what we've brought up these whatnot policies and people thinking, Oh, this can happen, that can happen. I've wanted to create a room where I feel like people understand what's happening. If they want to jump in, they can. And if they don't, there will always be another break. And I tell people that all the time. I'll be swiping through a room and it's, I call them, I call them used car dealerships room. It feels like I'm walking onto a car lot. It's like, No, I don't care about your Falcons. Like, I just want to watch some cards. And that's how I want my room to be like, Hey, if you got, you know, X amount of money, this team's open. If not, I'll be live tomorrow, like no pressure to jump in right now. I tell people too, part of breaking is missing, you know, that it, I wish that there was a way to do it. But I think the fun part is, is, you know, when the people hit, they hit big, and sometimes they don't. So when you ask me, I know I'm kind of getting off track here. But when you ask me about things, when you asked me about what wanted me to call these guys out, it's, I noticed that a lot of people were saying that, but it was still happening to where, you know, they weren't following through on their word. So for example, if I think it was a channel made a video about another breaker and his charge ins and the cards that were coming out, I remember sitting there thinking, like, I couldn't, I couldn't feel good about that. I couldn't feel like, Oh, hey, I told people, you know, that we're going to be seeing cards X amount of value. And we're seeing a quarter of that, like, where's that going? Like, that has to be somewhere. And you asked me earlier about how repacks work. One difference between wax and repacks is the value supposed to be in the repacks. It's how you price them. It's not like wax. I don't know if the Jaden's in here. I don't know if you know, Caleb one of one. We know what's in here. That's how we got the number. So when I saw people kind of taking advantage of that and being like, Oh, maybe we see the card next stream. I just wanted to I feel like people didn't know. People don't know how repacks work. And people don't know that you're supposed to see what you're buying with these should be reflected. So just I kind of had that feeling of I don't know how they do it. I can't do it. I feel like I need to say something just so people understand, like, Hey, you're kind of getting taken advantage of. You don't have to come into my room. I just want you guys to know if you're spending X amount of money, you should see X amount of cards and this is not happening. So that was kind of, kind of what made me call it, call it out. Gary, can I jump in with a question? I tend to ramble a little bit, but you brought up a really good point. One thing that I noticed specifically in the repack space, I think I've noticed it a little bit in breaking too, but specifically repack space is if something like this is pointed out, they don't just have their regulars. It becomes like a group of loyalists. Like there's a need to irrationally defend. It's like, and they're the consumers of this product, right? That's the part I don't understand is if anyone says, so we'll say things critical about maybe a product that's dropping or a price point fanatics is releasing a product at or something going on with grading this and that. And what we hope is even people that love that product can at least receive information and consider possibly maybe this year tops Chrome baseball isn't a great value. That's all we're going for is to just create something thoughtful with the content. But in that particular space, and I know like, like I said, tech talks a wild west with this kind of stuff right now. But what I mean by that is just like how much people get into it and have these strong it is like the consumers that we believe are maybe being treated unfairly, cannot wait to ruthlessly defend the behavior that's taking place. That is a unique dynamic that we're seeing in the card space. Do you agree with that, Gary? Like that it's kind of unique to this space to an extent, but it kind of falls into the, uh, the saying nobody defends a billionaire better than a guy making 40 grand a year. It's the same thought process. Yep. No, I, um, I got to comment on that. So I actually, there have been a couple of people that I've made, you know, I make those videos, and I'll get people messaging me, I get a lot of DMS, this, some of them not so great, but I'll get a guy, I'm not going to name him, but there's a member of my community that he's, and I call him my community, because I love having him in there, but he, uh, he sent me a DM and he's like, Hey, um, saw your video. I think it's great. Uh, you're absolutely right. I've been buying in with this guy. I don't want to buy in anymore just because he was so burnt out on the whole idea, but he brought that up. And I asked him that I said, why now? Like I, you know, what I've been saying has been there, but like, why, why was this the point, um, made you do that? And I made a video that talked about, uh, how some of these streams can afford to give away thousands of dollars in cards a night. And I truly don't get it. Cause I, and some people will comment and message me like, Oh, they're just doing it out of the kindness of their heart. I know. And, and I, and I so, so badly wanted to make a video on it. Like, I know the intentions look good, but I just wanted to do like an accounting video, right? Like it doesn't matter where they put it. It's coming out of what they're doing on the channel. So let's say that you've been buying in with me and you're getting skunked and skunked and skunked and never seen that card. And then one day I send you a $500 card in the mail. You're going to be like, Holy cow. This guy's great. Like I just got more than any other breakers ever given me. I can afford to do that because I'm not putting it back into the break. I'm picking and choosing who hits what in, in a weird way. So that's one thing I've noticed, um, where these people come in because every time, you know, I kind of poke at that poke at that bear for lack of a better term. Um, they come back with, I got this one time. They sent me this really big one time. It's this big, huge card. It's this one right here. They sent it to me and I'm, and I, so how many breaks were you in? How much did you in it? I think that's where that comes from. Yeah. It's like getting popped at the casino. Yeah, exactly. Exactly. You spent a hundred grand at the casino this year. Come stay in the presidential suite. And that's what it is. It's a free room. Yeah. Yeah. That's, that's kinda, I think that's where it comes from. Um, and you know, maybe, maybe every once in a while they do take care of people, but at the same time, like, I know there's been, this is another point. I know there's been rooms where there's accusations of like, um, this guy always hits and he, and he's never got to comment on the stream. So sometimes you just get those people too, but yeah, it is weird to me. It does seem like a lot of people just come out of the woodwork to defend these guys sometimes. Yeah, we, uh, we experienced that. Uh, we called out backyard breaks probably six or seven months ago. And, uh, we really experienced that. Yeah. Um, and of course that's the content that pops off, right? You can literally do one-on-one. Here's how to pregrade. Here's how to buy with margin. Here's how to like the most helpful, useful things. Nothing. And then you say something negative that gets a little bit of that going. And now everybody's like, I know that's not what we wanted to be known for, but it definitely draws out an audience and they're connected with that. Like, I think, I think you're right. That a lot of them did get hooked up once or they hit something. Like I can remember the times that I've done repacks. Anytime I've hit something big, I can look back to that card and tell you three or four of the cards that were in the break and all that. So it does create that element of surprise for sure that a lot of people were wanting that dopamine kick, right? When you're hoping like it happens. Yeah, it does. Yeah. Um, so following up on the concept of calling out bad actors, uh, this last week you made a video, I made a video all about the same guy. Um, I'm going to try to be diplomatic, which is not my forte. Be yourself, Gary, but we're being recorded. You know, for people who may not understand, for people who saw your video, who saw my video, um, for people who may not understand why that's so frustrating that somebody who is in the position that Jeff is in would make those kinds of claims who would create graphics that are kind of misleading as if whatnot has branded his stuff for him. Like explain why that's so frustrating for people like us. Yeah. So thank you. I'm, this is a question I was kind of looking forward to. I don't, I don't, um, have anything personal against Jeff. I, nothing against the guy. It's when he first talked about repacks, he was never in the space, you know, he, and to his credit, he's done a great job marketing himself to get where he is. I won't take that away from him. He's got a huge following, great footprint in the hobby. And with that, you know, just quote Spider-Man comes a lot of responsibility. Like you can't mess up if you're going to make claims that he, he did and then screw it up like he did. So for me, for years, you guys have seen me, I've been trying to change the hobby's outtake on repacks. I think they're great. I think there's a place for them if they're done right. And he came in with this first video ever about repacks. And I, I can almost hear it in my head. Repacks have been a stain on the hobby since they first came out. That was what he said. And then he went into lots of shady practices, friends hitting breakers, not shipping cards like repacks are terrible. So that's how he introduced himself to the repack community. And then he followed that up with mine are going to fix it. We're teaming up with PSA. We're going to do all this stuff. It's going to be great. Like we're going to set the new standard. And then he made a video about how we didn't do that. We actually messed it up and then whatnot came out and had all these new changes and he goes, you're welcome. Just he reaches so many people that I will not reach and such a big audience in the hobby that that watch his stuff and will now come across my channel and go, Oh, Jeff wasn't able to do it. This guy probably won't just keep going. Um, he, every video he makes probably reaches 25 more people than, you know, times 25 more people in mind. So I just, if you're going to take that big of a, you know, responsibility over repacks and then screw it up and not offer a solution like that, that, that affects me that, and that affects people trying to do this right, which I know I'm not the only one. So I just wish he would take a little bit more accountability and show people that like, Hey, repacks, there are mistakes. Like I'm not, I'm not mad about it. And for messing up, I'm more upset that he's just kind of skating on by hoping that nobody remembers it. And people are just going to have this negative thought about repacks now. So that's kind of where it affected me. Um, and it just felt like, it just felt like all this, you know, all these videos I was making about guys, these can be great. These can be great. These can be great. And then in comes the big guy, just nope. And that was acting like he invented it, acting like he invented it, screwing it up. And now whatnot's following his footsteps. So I, like I said, it, he reaches a lot of people and that's going to be a lot of people's first impression with repacks. Yeah. I think for me, the thing that was the most frustrating is as, as somebody who has seen the rise of Jeff Wilson, uh, in the hobby, it's yet another in a long line of things he's either taken credit for or tried to say he was revolutionizing. And yeah, it's, it's really frustrating to see that type of stuff for a lot of the reasons that you did. Somebody who has that kind of footprint could have a really positive impact on the hobby if they were focused outside of themselves. Correct. The only thing I'll say positive is I think there are positive things that he is doing for new collectors. But the trade off with that is if we're focused on the longevity of people entering the hobby that they're going to enter, stick around, enjoy it, collect 10 years later, they're still in the hobby. Then we need to think about offering advice. That's not going to be detrimental to them. And if we're just creating brand loyalists, that's going to work for anybody that's not been collecting for more than five years, two years maybe. Because look at how much the market has changed. Look at what's happened with licenses. Look at what's happened with breaking. Look at what's happening with card shows. It's an industry and a hobby right now that's changing so much that if people that are getting into the space are getting the wrong information, I do think it leads to people exiting the hobby when they run out of money or it gets too expensive or it's not enjoyable. And when somebody's claiming that they're the authority on credibility, there can't be a track record like we've seen. And I think that's for Gary and I, I keep giving the analogy and I keep putting this in comments everywhere. I just think it's funny for me, so I'll keep putting it. But Jeff is the kid that kept his hand up in class the whole class, the whole class. Everybody answered it. The teacher's on to the next thing. Ooh, ooh, ooh, ooh, over and over and over and over. You can put your hand down, Jeff, but I have a question. What's your question? I forgot. He's that kid. He is that kid. And I, I think that one, he didn't go make a video. He was interviewed when we talk about the issues that he was dealing with, with that particular repack, with the floors not being accurate. He didn't come forward on that. He was interviewed and it was brought up and he answered a question. So it's again, even further, if you had a case where something happened, where something was wrong at packaging, something went wrong. My assumption is based off everything I've learned is you're going to be reaching out to the people that were a part of that break to make it right. Because if for no other reason, if, if you're just selfishly motivated and money's the only thing, even in that regard, the most important thing you can do is make it right with the customer. Correct. Yeah. And I haven't heard anybody say is that he's made an effort to correct any of those issues with his repack. No, I, I, and I made partially made the video. I have some friends of mine who bought some of his, uh, greater grails. And I think out of the five, I think one of them, it was like a $30 card. Send an email. I haven't heard anything. Um, so it's yeah. And, and, and to your point too, that's, that is, I told him that in my video, mistakes happen. Like that's gonna happen. You make mistakes all the time. I've got, I've, and you know, hopefully my community will come in and back me up on this, but I, if I don't ship a card to somebody, I either buy it for them or I just give them the credit of the, of what the card was. Um, I know a lot of people just refund what they paid, but it's not really the same to me. Um, so it's kind of what we do. And you know, you'd think somebody with his power and what he has going that he could do that, but it's just kind of lame to see him not do that. Yeah. Yeah. Yep. I think your emphasis on credibility in this space is super important. One of the things we talk about with repacks is if you're going to open a product or you're going to consider something that's sealed, right? Right now, I think repacks that offer that transparency are a way better value for your money. When we're talking about something sealed that you have no guarantee of, then a lot of what's being introduced as wax in the market right now, people have been voting with their dollars. And for example, like tier one baseball, nice product, you got those big bat knobs, that kind of stuff in there. It's resale market is already down 30% and it's not because it's not a good product. It's because the price point versus the value. And over time, what we're seeing is if the value is not in the product, eventually, eventually, eventually, maybe not right away, but after all the influencers post their big hits a month or two later, it's still going to be on the shelf because it's too expensive. It's not there. I think, and I have a hunch that a repack, what we call them is ethical repacks. There's gotta be a better way. It should just be repacks and the ones that aren't ethical are out, but repacks that are people that are honest about what they have, it's probably a better ROI, like even a percentage of what you're getting back. Have you ever taken a dive into that? Like, is that statement true based off of what you've seen? I mean, obviously softball, right of a question, but I just would love your take on what you're hearing, what you see with that kind of stuff. Yeah. So it, I, uh, I think the biggest difference between wax and repacks are floors and ceilings when done right. Right. Like you said, I hate that we have to put an asterisk on there, but when done right, repack should always have a way more consistent floor. I'm never going to have, you know, the top we'll use prism. For example, I'm never going to have the top 200 cards, you know, that without black finite, Jayden Daniels wax will always be the king for ceiling. But like you said, it has a shelf life. It gets pulled. The new product comes out. The new rookies come out markets adjust, um, with repacks we're already buying after that usually happens. Ours hold value a lot better. So that ROI thing is great. Um, and that's also why I like comping and pull my phone out whenever I say that. But when I pull a card, because you can not only do I get to show people what it's selling for, but we can also kind of see the market adjusting to it. Like I'll see a lot of the time that was 300, 200, 100, 150. And I'm like, kind of like it in this range, it seems like it's starting to kind of balance out a little bit, but that's the benefit of repacks. I think over wax and kind of the ROI interest is we're already getting it after all that we're trying to get great deals on it. And it's going to hold its value better than what's new and what's hot. It kind of feels like I tell people all the time, but wax always feels like a rat race. If you're buying into breaks to kind of find that big chase, that makes sense. It's just find the big chase, get it graded, sell it next product fine. And it, it's stressful. I did that for a couple of months and I was like, you know what? I'm not having fun doing this. It's not, it's not beneficial to me. It's not beneficial to the community that I have. So that was why we switched basically your question hit the nail on the head with that. But I agree. Yeah. Yeah. All right. Let's get into the day to day. So a big filter for us with all of our content is our perspective is from our side of the table. So we're dealers. We do this for a living. We talk about our business a lot. You're working in this space too. I think people see the highlight reels of people hitting those ceiling cards and losing their minds and it's exciting and fun. What they don't see is what kind of precious stressor, uh, stresses pressure work is involved in running this kind of a business. A lot of people come to us, especially people younger in the hobby that are starting to flip some cards, make a little money in almost always within the first three to six months, they say, I'm going to start a repack, right? Because they've seen it. They, you know, it wasn't required whatnot. So they go buy a fancy color bubble mailer, right? And they're building their stuff out and they've got cases and it's with good intentions. But inevitably what happens at some point is the work of maintaining that business becomes excessive. Do you mind walking us through like on a, on a typical week? And I know that you're not the only one involved. You have somebody sourcing and all that, but what things have to happen on a regular basis to sustain a business like this? So, yeah, great. I'm one of the small guys. Um, and my, my friend charred, he does all the buying and packaging and shipping, but just the time people, I think underestimate how much time goes into it. I would say for every hour that I'm streaming is about an hour of work I have to do off camera. Um, whether that's content, whether that's reaching out to people like, Hey, did this come in or just following up on any questions people have? Um, and just, you know, a bunch of other things like helping, helping my wife sort ship the cards after they're hit, but a lot of time goes into that. And then on charge end too, it's a two person job for us. If he's not buying about 50, 60 cards a day, we're falling behind. Um, and, and, and we don't want to just get any card. That's the other thing too, that a lot of people think, Oh, I'll just go buy 50, 60 cards. But I don't, yeah, I don't want to turn into one of those channels. That's like, Oh, you know, you brought it up like a leaf, 1986. I don't, we don't want those. And, and one of the things that comp is there, but the joy is not exactly. So we, we ask like, I don't know what's in the boxes. When I say we chardonnay, we talk every week about this, like, Oh, this player looks good. This player doesn't. And sorry to all the Will Levis fans out there, but this is an example. We've never, and we will never have a Will Levis in there. And it's just annoying stuff like that. And it's nothing against him. It's just like, Hey, you gotta, you know, out of 10 gold prison, PSA, 10 Will Levis lasted a hundred. He wants that card. So it's just kinda, yeah. And I feel bad picking on Will, but it's just knowing, knowing your audience, knowing what people want, like that's another five hours a week. You just got to spend to think about, because if you're not putting good product in, you're not taking care of the people buying in. And that's the last thing I want. So I'd probably say I spend just me, probably 90 hours a week stream, maybe even more streaming, sorting content. And I think chard probably spends about Oh, probably 30 to 40. And that's another, another question, tons of discord shopping. He goes to a lot of shows. Um, and you guys make great videos on this, but making relationships with people who do have a lot of cards and do that, that's also very important. And that takes time that takes, you know, trust and time and, and culturing relationships with people that you want to continue to do business with. So that's another part that, and I'm not complaining, but that's another part that goes into it. A lot of people don't see. Um, so anytime I get that question, Hey Kyle, and I get a lot thinking of starting a repack channel or a break channel, like what's your first, what's your first thoughts? And I say, well, how many, how many hours a week can you put into it? And I think the most I've ever seen is like 50 and I'll be like, you got to double it. Like if you, if you want to at least see it grow and see, you know, the benefits of your work and other people's work, you have to be willing to put in every hour off camera for an hour that you put in on camera. Yeah. I just want your perspective on it. And I think that there's like, um, when people that sell cards here, the word repacker, they think for the most, I'm generalizing here, but a lot of people think that means an easy 105%. And there's been this dialogue around repacks and it's starting to affect like dealers because there's this assumption that there's someone in the room looking for whatever card is in their hand and they'll pay 105% because all repackers really sell at 300%. So it's just, there's this narrative. And I know that there were a lot of people like you that are, they have a lean business. It's them. They're not trying to do 50 streams at once. And you are the only one I've heard that emphasizes, and I really appreciate this, that you try to put an emphasis on buying this stuff, right? So talk, do you mind talking just for a minute of sourcing for repacks and realizing, helping people realize too, like you still have to try to get a good deal. Nobody's printing money here just because it's a sealed product. There's actually more expenses. It's more expensive for you to buy a hundred cards and sell them than for us. We'll throw them in a mag and stick her up. We're done. Right. So what, what is that approach like? Like, do you, do you run into that with sourcing where people are like, well, they're a repacker, so they're going to pay stronger. Like what's that dynamic like right now for repackers? Um, I, you know, I don't, I don't exactly know how char does it, but we've talked. So I know what he, what he says and kind of what we look for. I tell him this since day one, I feel more comfortable making money. If we got a good deal on a card, then paying 110% and then adding a markup that, that right there is what I see a lot of other places doing. And it bugs me. It doesn't show value in the case. So for example, if I, you know, my Nova case is 25 cards. If Richard tells me I'm, you know, I'm thinking this case, we probably got around 80% for the whole thing. I feel okay. Charging 15, 20%. If he's like, dude, this one's thin. I don't really feel great about that. So we really try to make an emphasis on getting good deals. And how we do that is we just kind of tell people like, Hey, we're here to buy cards. We don't want any card though. Like the stuff that you can't sell, it's not going to do on my channel either. Like if you can't sell it, I don't want that. And it's not an offense to the person. It's just, if a card's not moving, there's a reason it's not moving. Um, so when he, when we pull a lot of these things, sorry, I'm kind of thinking here. No, that's okay. Yeah. It has to be quality and yeah. Yeah. And it's like another thing too, that we always talk about is it's crazy to me how like JJ McCarthy before the season, we didn't buy him. He wasn't in our repack before the season. And I was telling people like, I don't want that for you guys. And I don't want to pretend like I know better than everybody else, but there was absolutely zero. hero reason for his cards to be as high as they were. So we didn't have them. And even at like, like his, his PSA 10 color blast was, I think it was sitting at like two grand when I first saw it. I'm like, the guy hasn't even played yet. It's insane. I don't want to put that in here. Number one, there's no value there. And number two, like if he comes out and it doesn't do well, that person's going to go, I hit this card with Kyle and that, yeah, I don't want my relationship. Yeah. I don't, I like, we do everything. We try to do everything community first. It may not always be that way, but we always make an effort to do that. And that starts with buying the cards. I want people to, when they hit a card, remember like, Oh, I got a good deal on this. I hit this with Kyle and you brought it up the other day in a video you guys made, but it was about selling cards at a hundred percent. Like you said something about walking into a show and thinking you have a hundred dollar card and only getting 80 for it. I don't want to hit people cards that are inflated and then they go to sell it. And it's half of what I told them it was. So really getting those good deals and, and, and showing the value I think is the best way to do it. Yeah. I'm, I'm, I was going somewhere and I kinda was trying to remember what you asked, but I think that was. Have you found that there's something, so like, for example, we, our audience, I think they're mostly our age, maybe a little bit younger, maybe a little bit older, but for the most part, our what not crowd, which is a different inventory from what we do at shows for the most part, love modern, like late nineties or 2010 stuff. We, the, the community showed us by their swipes, their dollars, what they, what they want. What is it right now with your community? If you had to say, Hey, these are the types of things that when something like this pops off, you know, this is a breaks with Kyle hit. This is the type of stuff they love to see. Can you think of a couple in the last few months that were like really fun that the community got excited about? Yeah. We had a, we had a 1911 Ty Cobb, like an SGC two. And I remember like, it's funny because I, you know, charter is a great job with this, but I remember sweating the card and 1911 popped up and I'm like, I hope I know this guy, you know what I mean? I'm in the back of my head. I'm like, here we go. And then Ty Cobb popped up and I'm like, I know who that, like, Holy cow. And it's just, you don't see that stuff every day. Right. And, and I know a lot of people like chasing, what's hot JJ and Michael Pennix and that. So that Ty Cobb coming up was cool. Another one we had was a game use Jackie Robinson bat. Yeah. I thought that was sweet. And yeah, stuff like that. And, and I I'll say a lot of the time, I know people are out there chasing what's hot and what's cool and what you can sell. We want to have about half that. And then half of the stuff where it's like, I'm giving this to my kids. Like, I, I love that. When people message me or say straight to the PC like that, that I love, I love when that happens. And I don't feel like you get that as much with the modern stuff. You just have more showcases. Yeah. Yeah. Like stuff up here. Like I've got, this is all old stuff. There's nothing new up there, but maybe a couple of things, but it, yeah, that Jackie was cool. The Ty Cobb was cool. There's Richard's going to be so mad at me. Oh, we had a Muhammad Ali autograph on, on a glove that he used. And I just, just stuff like that. Rocky, Rocky Marciano, old school card. It's just some stuff like that. And people are like, wow, anything really can happen with repacks. And I'm sitting there like, yes, this is how it should be. So you're, you're not afraid to focus in a little more on what we would call it as collectability, like a card that is going to remain collectible because of what it is. Yep. Not because it's new, not because maybe, but it's a collectible card. That's the forefront of how we buy. Yeah. That I would say, you know, there's more, there's, it's not just us, Gary. There's, there's more out there doing the same thing. Yeah. It's encouraging to hear it, honestly. Yeah. I, I, it's, and that's why I have such a problem. Not to get anything against people who do buybacks. I've never really been a big fan of buybacks. I'll do it if people want. But one thing that I know I talked about Richard with is like when we buy a card, first thing we think about is what I keep this, do I like this? And if, you know, sometimes maybe does it, you know, does it sell well, then maybe we can think about putting it in there, but he does a great job with that. So yeah, it's not just you guys. We love it too. Well, when you, when you talk about that type of a, of a thing, one of the things that we know to be true in the repack space, if you scroll through whatnot, if you scroll through TikTok, it feels like almost every room that you stumble into has leaned really heavily into the casino model, loud music, over-affected, almost characters doing the breaking, lights, like all this kind of stuff that is psychologically what casinos do on purpose to keep people in the room. You guys seem to have made a very conscious decision to go the exact opposite way. Why, why did you make that choice? I try to run a family friendly stream from beginning to end. And that's kind of how I've always done business on here. I think that's the best way to do it. I understand that this hobby caters to people who are three, like when I got in and all the way up. So with, with the casino streams, I crank music, fair disclaimer, I just like music. But I think one thing I've noticed like a trend of that is just how people are treated in those rooms. I make an effort to greet everybody in, ask them if they know what's going on. And I tell people all the time too, like, if you don't know what's going on, please ask me. I don't want you to just come and throw your money away. Like that's the last thing I, and I don't like when this happens is people buy in, we run the divvy and then people are like, wait, what happened? I'm like, I take that like I've messed something up and I don't like the feeling that the casino streams create where it's like, give me your money and you'll eventually see something and you'll eventually, and it never actually happens. So I've, I've, I've kind of talked with chart and my wife about making sure that we're not catering towards that. And, you know, nothing against the people who do it. It's just, when people are in my stream, I want it to be a family friendly kind of celebratory look at what we have. And even, and I tell people all the time, there's always another break. Don't have to buy into this break. And people will come to you like, hey, Kyle, I'm sorry, I can't, sorry, I can't jump in. And I'm like, don't do not like good for you, honestly. Like I love when people tell me that. And even when they come in and say hi, but, and I make clear that, you know, missing can happen. But yeah, we, we went away from that because it just, it just doesn't feel good. And, and when I sign off on my streams, I want to be able to tell myself, like, I feel like everybody knew what was going on. I feel like we put on a good, you know, a good entertaining time. And I feel like people knew what was going to happen. Like, like for example, hey guys, there's a 5k card in here. We saw that 5k card. I feel good about that. Right. I don't want it to feel like a casino where I, you know, funny enough just was a couple of days ago in Tahoe where I just walk in and I'm like, where'd my money go? And, and what came, what did I get for it? There's nothing here. So I, I just, I had never have liked that feeling. I've never liked that stream approach and I don't want to be a dealer. I I've, you know, people will call me a breaker and that's true. I am a breaker, but I I'm more so on to the side of just come hang out. If you want to see some cool stuff, you know, that's fine. If you got, I think our divvies are 35 bucks. If you feel comfortable spending 35 years, how it works, let's see what happens. Rather than, hey, Falcons are sitting there for you. What number do you want them at? I just, it just, I don't like that pressure. I've never liked that. So that's just kind of how I, I do business. It's just how I feel good about it. So. Don't change that because I think it's a differentiator for you. Thank you. And it might be more of a cheat code than you realize. The irony is what you're saying is I want to be able to work really hard and show the efforts for it. And it's just, that's, that's the secret sauce of what you're saying. You're working really hard. You're putting the right kind of stuff in there. You're making it attainable for people and you're being honest. And it is a little frustrating at times to realize that that's probably not a large majority, but it's encouraging to us to hear you say this and to see that you do operate. You seem like a, I think we could kick it. Kyle, I'd kick it with you. All right. It doesn't have anything to do with this, but I think that approachability, the type of authentic, you're talking about authentic community. What you see is actually what you get. It shouldn't feel that much different if you ran into me at the store than it does when you're in a stream or we're on the podcast. And I want you to know, we really respect you for not only what you're doing, but more importantly, how you're doing it. And I really think the hobby is a need of people that not only will do what you're doing, but we'll talk about it. And as we find more people operating ethically like that and putting on a good show, that's part of it. You have to be entertaining or it's not gonna work, right? We just hope to see more of that across the hobby, just like you do. But before we wrap this up, one thing that's really important is we want people to have the opportunity to take advantage of a repack that we feel super comfortable promoting. And this is definitely that scenario for us. So how can people connect with you? How can they join you on the next repack break? Thank you. Yeah, I'm going live today on TikTok. That's the only place we stream. 4.30 Pacific Standard Time. If you just go to TikTok, type in breaks with Kyle. It's got, let me see if I can find, this is what our, I got a sweat card sitting around our logo. Oh, nice. There you go. Yeah, it's kind of, if you see that logo, you made it. But yeah, and to anybody watching that may think about it, I always say, don't buy in until you know what we're doing. And if you just want to come hang out and see some cool cards, that's how we do it. So yeah, any questions they have, I'm here for them. Awesome. Anything else, Gary? No, we appreciate your time. Thanks for hanging out with us. And I'm not personally a guy that jumps into a lot of breaks, but like Jason said, I have no issue with pointing people towards you if that's what they do. Thank you. You do it the right way. Thank you guys. I appreciate that. Thanks so much, Kyle. Appreciate it. Yeah. So be sure to follow breaks with Kyle on TikTok. He showed the image there of his logo. So make sure that you check them out. Even if you just hang out, watch how he does this. Watch how he has card letter out. He's really showing you how to determine if there's value in a repack. So for those of you that have been nervous about it, we would say have confidence, go check it out. Maybe just watch a stream, don't even buy anything the first time. But if you're seeing the same thing he is, and the comps are really there, and the floor and ceilings are real, and he's a fun person to hang out with, go support him. Hopefully we'll be hearing more from Kyle in the future. Absolutely. I appreciated his takes, especially when he was talking about the buying and how that works. That was the big takeaway for me. Collectibility. They face the same challenges that we do from a buying standpoint. However, it's just on a much larger scale. We struggle and work really hard to buy 50 to 100 cards a week. They've got to buy 50 to 60 cards a day. Yep. A day. A day. Which is just- Of the right kind of stuff. Of the right kind of stuff. So their challenge is exponentially larger than ours. Yep. I agree. Along the lines of buying collectibility cards, you and I kicked around this idea of a segment called Go Find Another One. What we love in our showcase is as many cards as possible that are collectible that you just don't see that often that are hard to find. They don't have to be the most expensive cards in the world, but generally collectible cards have a little bit of value. Not always the case, most of the time. I love this one for our first one that we're doing. Our goal is over time, you're just gonna see cool cards that we found that walked up to us in the wild at card shows, and if there's a story with them or what we like about the card. So Gary, kick us off with our very first ever Go Find Another One. Yeah, so this card, and you'll see it on the screen, probably right over top of Jason's head here, is the 2001 Topps Chrome Late Edition, not edition, addition, Albert Pujols Rookie card. So if you're not aware, the typical Albert Pujols Rookie, what's considered his main rookie, is the 2001 Topps Update T247, and it's also an update Chrome, T247. However, much like today, they would occasionally slip a short printed version into the flagship product. However, because it was printed later and in a shorter run, and the cost to do the chromium finish was a lot different back then than it is now, these were done as foil, not chrome. So what you're seeing here is the late edition Albert Pujols, it's actually card 596, because it's part of the actual base chrome set that year, not update. This is one of those cards that it's available out there. You'll see three, four, five, six sales a year of it. There might even be one or two available at any given time on eBay, but that's not very much for this type of a card. And I can't think of the last time I saw one out in the wild, and this just walked up to the table along with two other Pujols Paper Rookies and a traditional Chrome Rookie. And I bought all of them, and I thought this one was super cool, so. You know what doesn't walk up often? Just the Paper Pujols Rookies. Well, yeah. Not often, you don't see them that often in Ohio. Also really interesting. Tough set to find stuff in the wild. Well, an interesting parallel here, because that set is a full color front border, the difference in value between the paper and the chrome is not drastic. 20 to $30 difference, and normally it's about double paper to chrome, if not a little bit more. But in this situation with this card, because of the difficulty of finding clean copies of the paper that don't have edges kind of beat up and visible whiting on the fronts, there's not a drastic difference. So the important question in the segment, somebody comes walking up, sees that late edition, looks you in the eyes and says, well, last one did this. Can you do 80% of that? What are you gonna tell them? Go find another one. Yeah. There it is. I like this segment. Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, and all the dealers watching this are like, yeah, you tell them. Tell them we don't even need money. I hate your guts. No, I'm just kidding. But we do get that way. Well, it's just, when you don't make money for some shows and people are rude, you know, it's a little bit of emotional rollercoaster. It's all right. It happens. Go find another one of that one. Be sure to give us a follow on whatnot live every Thursday night, six Eastern. Be sure to check that out. Like, subscribe, all that. If you did not know and you're only seeing clips, probably not getting this clip in socials, but if you were, long form is on YouTube and then socials, Instagram, TikTok, Facebook, you name it. Our content is out there. Be sure to give it a follow and give breaks with Kyle Fowl. Anything else? Yeah, we're just really excited. There's some really cool stuff coming down the pike that we're excited about that you guys are gonna see us start bringing into the podcast. We don't wanna give you details yet. they're not all completely hammered out, but it's some pretty cool stuff. It's going to be fun. This has been the Ball Card Show, the sports podcast. For the Sports Collector. Bye now.