Should You Keep it Sealed? The Deep Pocket Monster Playbook on Content, Community & Growth

The business side versus the collecting and sort of being a kid again and like, the fun of it all. Are you able to do both? I'm very, very blessed. I realize this to be in a position where I can do the Pokemon stuff without having to say yes to every opportunity. I can be very picky with who I work with or how we publish things. Welcome to the Collector Nation podcast. Here on the Collector Nation Network. Whether you're chasing grails or calling bluffs, we take you inside the hobby. Here's your host, Ryan Alford. For a long time, collecting was pretty simple. Buy cards, hold them, maybe go to a show. Now it's content, it's community, it's experiences. It's something much bigger. Pat Flynn spent years, years building businesses and communities. He's also been on one of my other shows, but more recently, he's taken that same approach into the hobby with Deep Pocket Monster and Card Party, creating some of the biggest brands in the space. So today we're getting into what happens when you apply real business thinking to collecting. Pat, great to see you again, and welcome to Collector Nation. Thanks, Ryan. It's like a little reunion for us, actually. I know. I feel like, hey, we do have some streamers in I. You'll get a kick out of this, Pat. Collector station. My retail store opened. Grand opening was a week and a half ago. Oh, congrats. Yeah, we got streamers for our rekindling, getting back together and the store opening, and my studio is in the middle of the store making streams come true. Exactly. We're already here in the dad joke part of the. I know that's my brand. I just. I just. Believe me, that's me, too. Bill is over there, like, going, oh, God, we got another one. Oh, no, that's all I do. Oh, Pat, what you been up to, man? Well, you know, I've had a business that I've had for nearly 18 years now in the entrepreneurial business podcasting space, and that's still chugging along, doing really well, managing a team there and a community, like you said. But since 2020, I've been diving pretty deep into the world of collecting, specifically Pokemon, thanks to my kids. Actually, during COVID they got me into it, and then I saw an opportunity on YouTube to bring something to the space that really wasn't there. More storytelling, more just cinematography, those kinds of things. And it's kind of taken off, and we're currently at 2.2 million subscribers on YouTube. On the main channel, Deep Pocket Monster. In 2024, I started a Daily series. Shout out to Alex Ketchum, AKA Alex. Can't catch him for getting me on that. And now we are at 616 days straight. A little 60 second short form video. Open a pack every day. You might have heard the jingle, should I open it or should I keep it sealed? That is me. And that is gone worldwide. It's. It's gotten crazy, actually. Yeah, the answer to that question. Well, I'm believing that you should usually keep it sealed, but for entertainment purposes, I open it and it's usually not a good idea for me. But it's always fun. It's always fun. And of course, like you said, Card Party, our live event that started in 2023. We now have three this year, San Diego, Fort Lauderdale and Dallas. First time in the middle of the country. And we are attracting, you know, 10,000 people, thousands of tables getting sold out. And, you know, we bring an entertainment sort of element to the convention space, taking the best of what we found in the business world in terms of how events are run, but then taking all the business and boring stuff out and putting the Pokemon and collectibles and the YouTubers and TikTokers in there. And it's just been a blast. It's just. It's just amazing. The comments that we get from people who are there, they talk about it like it's camp. Like they go and they see their friends again, they compete, they have adventures, they have fun and have memories that they can collect and take back home. Because that's what it's about. Not just collecting cards, but collecting memories and friends. Does it still for you? I think I know the answer to this, but I still think it'd be interesting, like the. The business side versus the collecting and sort of, I don't know, being a kid again and like the fun of it all. I mean, is it. Are you able to do both? Yes. However, I'm very, very blessed. I realize this to be in a position where I can do the Pokemon stuff without having to say yes to every opportunity. I can be very picky with who I work with or how we publish things. We can take our time to tell these stories. I know a lot of other creators don't have that luxury, but, you know, we want to tell the best stories that we can. And really the big idea here is just have fun. If I'm having fun, then the audience is more likely to have fun following the stories as well. So, you know, it's cool because with the Pokemon thing, I didn't need to make it make Money. And because of that, it's generating money, right? It's generating revenue. From the way that I've always taught business, which is serve first, go out there, provide what you can to a certain community and in some way, shape or form that'll always come back. Now it's not just going to fall in your lap. Having business experience and entrepreneurial experience, I know how to, you know, utilize those communities and build them in a way that serves everybody and everybody can win as much as possible. But yeah, I'm having fun, man. And I hope that the audience is too. I think they are. And what's really cool is the comments. A lot of the Comments on the YouTube video now are from people who don't even know anything about Pokemon. They don't even care about Pokemon, but they love the story. And for me, in the world that we're in now, what I'm seeing just in general in the information age, I mean, we're away from the information age now. Information is way too plentiful. There's way too much of it. So we need to bring human elements back into the things that we do in order to connect with audiences and build communities. And that's something I've always done, but I feel like it's now needed and wanted more than ever. You know, with all the AI slop that's out there, everything's seemingly either so perfect or so fake. Being vulnerable, being out there and just kind of putting yourself out there and connecting is, is really the way to go. So, you know, it's kind of cool because I can do that, be myself and grow the business at the same time. I love that you said that. I said that same thing. I mean I started the card store and it, it doesn't have to. I don't have to sell anything. Like, you know, like I don't have to make short term decisions. It doesn't have to do. And I said that's why it will probably do well is because you don't need. It's a. I mean this a. The hobby is hard to be into where you got to make a living. Like every moment. Like if you're making, paying your mortgage or whatever. Like I was like, I can only imagine. Cause you sort of need it to be this organic thing and it can only be, you know, you start wanting to force the issue a bit I think when you've got to rely on it. And so I think it can be a wonderful thing if it can be secondary and it ironically will probably become bigger. Like you said it became to where it became a business, because you could allow that to happen, and you could be, you know, yourself and not and take your time in doing what felt right versus what felt right for business. Right. Right. And, you know, with that business experience behind me, I know how to create content. I'm used to putting myself out there. I've already jumped over those hurdles that I initially had years ago when I was scared and nervous and didn't know how any of this worked. Now I can hit publish and record and kind of have an idea and have a leg up, because I've done that before. But I'm always experimenting, and I'm playing, and I'm trying to see what works and see what doesn't. And again, I do have that luxury to see what works and see what doesn't. And if something fails, I take it more as a learning experience. And I didn't really lose anything. I've gained a lot, and that's pretty cool. And a unique position we're in. We're at a point now with Deep Pocket Monster, especially where we're getting a lot of attention from other brands and other companies that want to get in front of this audience. And I have to really understand that I got to be very careful with who I put my name with and what I say. I mean, I could control markets if I wanted to, and that's a very scary position to be in. You know, I have certain collections that if I wanted to, I could pump them up, and that's, you know, that's bad. So, yeah, you know, with. With great power comes great responsibility. And, you know, thankfully, I have an audience and great people around me who will call me out if I ever go down the dark side. And I. I want you all to do that. Talking with Pat Flynn, the superhero of Pokemon. No, that' we are the hero. The community is the hero. I'm. I'm just the team captain. Right. I got the seat on my shoulder, and, you know, I'm gonna pass you the ball sometimes, Ryan, and you're gonna score, but we're all gonna win together. That's how I see it. No, I know you're. You're. Hey, I know you're with Skywalker on the. On the. The good side, you know, we're not on the dark side, you know? I know. But, hey, sometimes I get persuaded, too. You know, Darth Vader could be persuaded, too, on some levels, but, I mean, it's just. We know Pat Flynn's the original Obi Wan Kenobi. He no man, you don't gotta glaze me up, man. No, I know I don't. But you are, dude. That's why you're so successful, man. I mean that. Thanks. I don't glaze anybody up. I just tell the truth. That's why people. Ryan is right. That's what it is. Because I see it and I know it and I've. I know people that know you even better than I know you and they speak so highly of you and your community knows it. So they need to hear it. Here. What you mentioned it. What is the separation of good, better, best content these days in the hobby? Yeah. I mean, the best content is content that's relatable. That is the key word. It's relatable. Right. Because we're all looking for something to connect with. And if you're not creating something that's relatable, or if you are maybe so far removed from the community that you're building or creating for, then it's not going to hit. Right. And I don't want to mention any names, but there have been a lot of creators in the Pokemon space that have done things that from the outside, it's just like, why would you, Are you, Can you not see how this would be perceived? And I understand in the moment and you know, we don't often realize or recognize how people may react, but one of the superpowers, I think myself and especially my team and my producer Dan, shout out to him, he's very aware of how, you know, we can get in front of how an audience may react to certain things. So we can then change our decision making on the front end. Right. A lot of these, you know, trade up challenges, for example, it's like, well, of course if I do a trade up challenge, it's going to be completely unfair. That's completely unrelatable. There's nobody, you know, and then we're putting pressure on the vendors as well. Like, this is just not going to be perceived in a really great light. There are ways to still do a similar challenge and wrap it in a way, but we have to try to consciously understand what an audience is going to say before we do the thing. And that way we can build for what would be the most, again, relatable, most doable. And I know I, in many of my challenges, I'm still at the point now where it's like, oh, well, that would never happen to me. At which point my response is like, well, I was once in your spot too, and nothing's stopping you from creating and serving an audience. But I know I'm in a position where I have to be very careful with like, hey, look, celebrities coming by, like, give me free cards for my challenge. Of course I finish the challenge, but I don't always finish the challenge. And this is why I love when I fail. I don't try to fail, and I also try to win. But when I go through my challenges and I fail, I'm like, yes, I'm bummed because I'm competitive, but at the same time, I'm like, this is good because this is real life and I'm not always going to get what I'm hoping for. And this is a great lesson that I could teach. You know, there's layers to the things that we do in our storytelling that I love. And I'm starting to lean into even more the sort of not just like, oh, it's some guy going on a Pokemon collection, but it's, you know, the struggles of trying to find the thing that you're looking for. And sometimes it works out, sometimes it doesn't. And this is real life. And again, the relatability keyword is really what it's all about. Out. So this is what we think about when we're creating content. How can we make this thing relatable? For example, we did a challenge where we were trying to collect every Gengar ever. And this was one of our best videos in the last couple years. Gengar, a very popular Pokemon that was purposefully chosen, and it's also one of my favorites. But we were trying to tell the story. It's like, well, I could go out there and just try to find them all, but what's the connectedness to that? Right? Like, yeah, we all want to complete our sets. But, like, what could be another layer beyond this that would be even more relatable? Well, I had recently purchased a collection that had a number of Gengars in it. And it was in this binder that looked really ugly, and it was like somebody's collection. I bought it because they were having financial problems and I wanted to help them out. And so we created the story of, like, this uncomplete collection that was in this nasty looking binder juxtapositioned with my perfect collection of all these complete sets and my Vaultx binders that were neatly laid out and neatly labeled. It's like we can all relate to that thing that was like, incomplete in our life that we want to finish. But then me being a perfectionist became a part of the story. My perfectionism became the villain in the story, actually, because we all deal with that as well. And so as I was trying to complete this Gengar collection, I would get Gengars that were hard to find, but they weren't perfect. They were, like, scuffed up. And it's like I had to deal with that in my head. And it's like, we can all relate to that as well. And I realized that even though I ended up finishing this collection, but the binder was full of these cards that were kind of worn and torn, those. Those wearing and tearing. They have stories behind them. They have history behind them. And it was the history that made up this collection and made it more complete than if I just bought every card perfect or found them all in packs. So, again, I'm getting a little bit detailed here in the kind of the thinking and the levels that we have. But that's where I find fun. I mean, these are my favorite stories and books that I read, the ones that have levels to it like that. And that's something that I think we could bring to the space that nobody else is really thinking about for sure. Good story. I've opened five packs of Ascended Heroes. And the fifth one, I pulled that Gengar, the big hit. Yeah, that's it. I still haven't told that. I. It was like, okay, there we go. That's good. All right. I think I'll not open anymore now. Do you record when you open, or do you just. I do. A lot of times Bill is gonna jump in here and, like, she's gonna be like. Because lately I've been pulling some bangers and I haven't been recording. Oh, man. Dude, that's what, like, the golden rule of content creation in the collection space is, like, always be recording, because you never know you're going to get. You're going to get the big hit. Yeah, I've been getting a bunch here. I caught a lot of sports stuff, too. I pulled, like, several downtowns and, like. Like other things lately. And of course, I think I. But I'm. I'm convincing myself. It's because the camera's not on. So I'm like, I don't know which one's better. I'm getting good cards. Schrodinger's pack is really what it is. Exactly. We're talking with my good friend Pat Flynn. You know who he is. Talk to me about the state of the hobby. What's happening in the hobby right now. Like, what's your. I don't know, maybe your 30,000 and your one foot view. Yeah, I mean, I, I will share this from my own perspective. I, and everybody has their own perspectives about it, and I respect that. I'm not coming here to bring the State of the Union, you know, to, to, to the space here. I'm just. This is, this is my thought. It's, it's tough right now. It's tough because of how just big everything is and how little product there is. And that, you know, brings the prices up and brings the scalpers out and, you know, it makes it very difficult for people to get into the hobby, which is why, you know, some of the things that we do on Deep Pocket Monster, we try to go when, when everybody zigs, we Zagoon, as we like to say. And what we try to do is we try to do things that are more accessible. It's not always possible. But what I mean is, for example, we did a very big challenge called the Pokedex Challenge, where we tried to collect one of every Pokemon inside of one giant binder that was made for us by Voltex. So it was kind of like comical how big this binder was. But what wasn't comical was just how easy doing a challenge like that is. Anybody could go and try to find all 10, 25 Pokemon, because at that point, it doesn't mean, it doesn't matter how rare the card is. It's matterful to you if that is an empty slot in your binder. And so you could go to a card shop right now and go to their bulk bin or bulk bulk boxes in the back and probably start loading in, you know, a few dozen new Pokemon that you didn't have in your Pokedex challenge. And that makes it easy for people to come in. So that's like, typically when I share with people who are like, where do I start? I, I. It's a great way to learn about the Pokemon and to find your favorite as well and to learn what sets are out there. It's a wonderful example of how you can started so it's not impossible to get in the space. You kind of have to get a little creative with it. And I love to lead by example. The prices are crazy. The idea of modern being even more expensive than a lot of vintage cards right now kind of blows my mind. You're always going to have the home run hitters, like, you know, the Umbreon Moonbrian card from Evolving Skies and things like that that are just crazy. And the Vancouver stuff is, is insane. And there's now, you know, a lot of things on the other side of the world where investments are happening into the space. And now we're seeing Wall Street Journal articles. It's, it's insane. It is. And this is where again, the channel comes in to try to provide a different take on it. You know, we don't come from a, a money first perspective, obviously. We do share prices and things, and that's part of our collection journey, is to, you know, try to wheel and deal. And those prices are important, but we, we're not an investment channel. We're more of a challenge channel. And here's what you could do on your own if you want. And it's cool because we're seeing a lot of parents and kids bond over their own challenges. We're seeing a lot of people get into the hobby and find their own, you know, Pokemon to collect all of one, every PO of all that Pokemon, just like our Gengar challenge. So it's pretty cool. But the state, it, it's not very fun for a lot of people. And this is supposed to be a fun space, right? And, and this is, again, I can only do what I can do on my end and tell stories to try to bring some of that into light. I mean, there's so many aspects to it. Good for business. I mean, like, in one way, you know, like, I mean, I think your show's entertaining regardless of you're such a skilled storyteller that it could be about, I don't know, used cars and it'd be interesting. But we did a whole video about energy cards that was one of our most popular videos. Because we turned a story into it. Exactly. No, you did. And I mean, that's, that's the beauty of it. But the hobby's good. It makes the YouTube. I mean, it does bring attention. So it's like, it's kind of like I like it to be, I, I want it to be more accessible and made more available as well. But I mean, when the hobby's good, anyone that's in the hobby typically benefits. Yeah, it's true. Although, that being said, because we're, we've been on this sort of bull run for so long now, it feels, everybody who's in it feels like they're smart. Not that they're not smart, but it just like, it's almost like a jaded success coming from those who enter the hobby right before this bull run. And I've heard a lot of other investment channels, I do follow those channels. I do support them and, and, and want to hear them out. A lot of them are like, yeah, it's easy to be smart when we're on. We're. We're in. In this market right now. But let's see who's going to be here still after the next downturn, you know, after the next bear market, who's going to be sticking around after? And that's. That's a really interesting thing to say. I. I want success for everybody, but, you know, it's very easy to say, you know, what you're doing when everybody's kind of winning. Yeah, it's true. So, you know what I do love about coming? Do you see that downturn coming? Oh, yeah. I mean, it's always inevitable. These are. These are ebbs and flows of not just markets, but life. You know, there's ups and downs everywhere, and it's seeing yourself through those downs and finding your way on the other end where success comes. You know, there's a lot of investment advice that makes sense here, too. You know, it's like, do the opposite of what everybody else is doing when there's a downturn. That's typically when I see things for sale, right? Yeah. And when things are high, I try to do my best to, you know, audit my collection and go, okay, what. What's the Marie Kondo saying? It's like, does this spark joy for me right now? And if I look at my collection, I'm like, why do I have this? Then it might be a good opportunity for me to sell that and try to maybe pick up something that does matter to me more. I don't know. These are good. These are great times. Right. If you're not. The interesting thing about collecting is if you're not also selling, you're kind of just hoarding and. Yep. You know what I mean? And, you know, I'm not the first person to say that, but that was something that was said that really struck me because I. I don't like to just sell because I like to keep things. And. But at the same time, I could totally see Pat Flynn never wanting to sell it, like, keeping everything. Yeah. There's another layer to where it's like, I'm in a position again as a creator with a lot of people where it would be very easy for me to sell or manipulate or do all these things. Yeah. So I avoid it for that reason as well. But maybe that's just an excuse I'm making so I can hoard everything that I have. I was about to say, but you're such an authentic collector. I could tell that, like, you don't Want to sell it? Yeah. I mean, there was another one of my favorite cards is this card, right? I have it here because I knew we were going to talk about some of the stuff. The silver dialoga from Phantom Forces. Oh, wow. This car is so hard to grade. And there's only like 55 PSA 10s. I have 10 of them. Oh, my God. So talk about, like, hoarding and help yourself. That, no, I love. It's the only silver all silver Pokemon card is from 2014's Phantom Forces. And it's. It's just such a rare and cool looking card. And I remember there was one that was sold on ebay or. No, I think it was on golden or Heritage, I can't remember. It was on a recent auction for like 18K. And I got hundreds of messages because people knew that I collect this car. They were like, this was you. It wasn't it, Pat. You're just pricing up your own cards so that the rest of your collection goes up. I was like, no, that actually wasn't me. But that made me realize just like it could have been. I could have bought that and price it up to 25k. And then now my whole collection's up and it's like, well, I probably shouldn't buy these in auctions then because of this. Like, you know, I don't know if I'm gonna buy anymore. But it's just, again, it just shows you just how crazy this kind of space is when you get to these kind of higher end levels. And I'm just entering into that level now. Whereas there's been a lot of people who are way more knowledgeable and better at that than me who collect these trophy cards. And then we recently had the Illustrator sold on Logan Paul's stream, right, for 16 mil. And it's just like, what is. These are. These are crazy numbers that are happening right now. Um, and it just makes me question a lot of things and it just makes me reflect on, well, what am I doing here? Am I doing it for the right reasons? And not that they aren't, but, you know, I wouldn't even sell these dialogues even if they were 100k each. So, you know, I guess that in the end just really shows you that that's just an important car that I want, but that's what makes collecting so. I don't know, it's a human trait, because I'm learning that everybody collects something. It's like it's built into our DNA at all levels, it seems. Yeah. What else do you collect? Other than sports cards and Pokemon cards. Shoes. Yeah. Do you see my, my, my mags back there? Yeah, I do the back to the future ones. That was a Halloween. I just had some one on one. Josh Allen's made Nike Air ones. Bella's going to grab them. I want to show them to you this. So. Yeah. So custom shoes and cards. I did. I used to collect cars. That was an expensive habit, I bet. And watches. Yeah. Okay. So you. You're all in on collecting. Oh, wow, those are cool. Game worn patch. Oh yeah. And Josh Allen's like. Yeah. 17 on the toe. These are just totally customized one on one. They were all solid white. So everything you see has color. I mean, is. Was hand painted on here by an artist that we have locally. I'm gonna drop her name Bella. So we. Yeah. AP Customs on Instagram and shout out to AP Customs only to get you up for some Pokemon. Customs perhaps. Yeah, you need to. We should get you some. You know what? You need to come down here and we'll have them done in the store. I'll pay for them and you come sit next to me and do an interview. How about that? Let's do it. Let's do it. Some ditwing. I. Some Diglett shoes. Exactly. You just give Bella the order and we'll make it happen. Yeah. The Diglett thing's crazy. With my thumbs. I don't know if you. You know that story. I don't know that story. Let's tell it. So on. Should I open it or should I keep it sealed? Right. My camera's really close to the cards and so my thumbs are there. And I have weird thumbs. I have club thumbs. They look like. I call them Megan Fox thumbs because that makes it sound better. But they're gross, dude. They're wider than they are taller. Whatever. And people started making fun of me for him. Like throwing puke emojis in the chat and every. All this stuff. Like making fun of my thumbs. Like they're like, I can't watch this guy because of his thumbs. And so younger me would have been like, oh my gosh, I can't go online anymore. This is. This is gross. Or I have to cover them up or whatever. But business Pat Flynn today was like, ooh, my thumbs are getting a lot of attention. How can I lean into that? Because what makes me weird makes me different, makes me stand out. And so I started to just address them and call them Diglett thumbs because there's a Pokemon that looks like them and people went for it and they Were like now, when I go to conventions and I sign cards, Diglett is the number one card I sign. And I even have some people ask me to trace my own thumb on a Diglett card and draw a Diglett. You know how, like in Thanksgiving you trace your hand and make a turkey? Now they're doing that with my thumb. And it's like, again, a great story of embracing your weird. I've always taught that. That was in my book Superfans that I wrote in 2019, even before the Pokemon stuff. Embrace your weird. This is the stuff that makes us more relatable as people and makes us more human. And now, without even prompting it, whenever, whenever anybody opens a Diglett who's watched the channel, they think of me. And it's crazy because now I'm doing marketing in a genuine way. That's me. And it's relatable. And it's like now. Now I've even had emails from people who say they also had club thumbs and they were very embarrassed, but now they're not anymore. I'm like, what? Cool. We're doing, like, self help with my thumbs here on. Should I open it or should I keep it sealed? This is crazy. Yeah. Again, just showing up being relatable, trying to be human, not trying to be perfect. Perfect is not anything any of us can connect with anymore. We're talking with Pat Flynn, the master of diglett, the club thumb expert. What makes this hobby community so strong? And, and I mean, you've talked about what's made your stick with how you go at it, but it's a. It's a crazy community. Crazy is a good word for it. Yeah. But crazy can be good, right? Crazy, dedicated crazy in terms of how much they love the thing that they do or the lengths to they'll go to find the car that they need. All this kind of stuff. It's crazy how much it brings people together and people of all walks of life, all backgrounds, all ages, we have this common thing. And that's what's beautiful about Pokemon. It brings us all together. It's just the medium at which we're connecting. It's, again, a lot deeper than just the cards itself, the letters and the messages that I've personally gotten from people who said it's helped them come out of very dark times, save their lives even. My favorite emails also are the ones that come from families who are like, hey, my son and I had a really hard time bonding over something until we started watching your channel together. And now we watch every Monday on The. On the live streams. It's just amazing. I wasn't going to mention this, but I think it's a great example. There's a kid, Zavian is his name. He's going through some tough times medically right now, and his father reached out to me. His father's name's Matthew. And was like, hey, we're going to be at Rady's Children's Hospital in San Diego. Might there be a chance that you could come by and swing by? And this was just last week. And I swung by and I met his family, and I really got to know how important the channel and Pokemon was to keeping them happy and joyful during these tough times. And I do that as much as I can. I don't publicize it. That's not what it's for. You know, I don't bring cameras in those spaces, and it's just a private moment. But to get to know who the people are who are watching and what it's done for them is really meaningful to me. And I get so much value out of that that I can bring into the next piece of content that I create. And I can't do that for everybody who asked, but I try to do it when I can. And it just shows you that there are levels to the. To the thing that we're doing here. Because it's not just about the cards. It's about what they mean to us. The memories that are made with them, the friends that are. That. That. That we bring along the way, and, you know, people connecting with each other because they happen to have the card that they need. And who would have never met otherwise, who would have just passed each other at the mall and never said anything. Now they have a reason to connect. And this is the thing that we're all craving and needing now is that connection. That's kind of the theme in this conversation. I'm feeling that we're always coming back. Yeah, man. Which is pretty cool. I love that you told that story. I appreciate you sharing that. I know that. I mean, it's for the right reason, but that's. That's. That's the real Pat Flynn, you know, doing real things in real life. It's not just behind the camera. And you went there. I think. I think of, like, this. I want to talk about card party a little bit, you know, like the show experience and the real life of all that. I mean, I had a guest on a couple weeks ago, Dan Bliss, who does a lot of the biggest sports card shows, and I like Dan and I. But I was. I kind of pushed him a little bit on, you know, does. Does the show need to evolve into more of an experience and not just, you know, the front row. Yeah, front row. Yeah. And. And I. I think the cards need to be front and center, but I mean, maybe talk about your perspective or. And in the sports and Pokemon are different, but still show. There's still collector communities and similar crossover, like as far as what happens and what that show experience can be and then maybe blend that in with what you're doing with card party. Yeah. So I went to a couple card shows when I got into the space. And not that I didn't feel welcomed. I felt like registration's easy. Go in, get to meet vendors and buy, sell, trade, and then you go home and it's like, oh, cool, I got what I needed. But I was thinking about what it would have been like to bring my kids there. And I would have. It would have. They would. He would have just like tagged along on the side side. Right. There was really nothing for him to do. And I started thinking, like, why isn't there an event that really brings some more entertainment value into this, into this space? There's so much that could happen. I started getting all these ideas, like I do when I get these ideas, I just go. Go kind of all in on it. And I had been speaking at events for over a decade, and I've been to many, many, many events, and I started thinking about my favorite events, and they were the ones that had, like, other activities and things to do on top of, like, the theme of the event. Right. And typically they were kind of more for you, more formal, business, informational events. But they were set up in a way that was still great and entertaining because of the connections that were. That were happening and these little activities and, you know, fun keynotes and things like that. So I said, well, nobody's done it yet and nobody's going to do it. I might as well do it myself. I'm going to build the event that I'd want to bring my kids to and bring families to and have some fun at. I want an event that's not about me and maybe not even about the cards, necessarily. That's just the draw that brings them in. But I want it to be about the other creators who are here. This was our bit. One of our big first hypotheses with this event was like, if we feature the creators at the event, the other YouTubers and TikTokers, Instagrammers, if we make them the hero of the story, they will be likely to promote it because they're getting featured. And I'm not just talking about the A listers. They always get featured anyway. What if we reach out to the people who are grinding every day creating videos? They have small but loyal audiences. What would happen if we recognize them and brought them in, put their name on the website, brought them on stage to play some games with us? And it worked. They brought in more people than the A listers did because they were finally getting that recognition that, again, most people crave. And these people have been working so hard and hadn't really gotten that. And so they were. They were great, the fans being able to meet them and not just meet them behind a red velvet robe, but, like, see them in the crowd and see them in the wild and see them on stage, maybe even getting the audience on stage as well, with them to connect. And so what we ended up designing was, yes, it's a card convention, sure. But we call it Card Party because it's about the party part. It's about the connection and the fun that we can have. And so the games that we play on stage, they're very similar to, like, Price Is Right, if you imagine Price is Right, but without grocery items. And instead it's cards and boxes and things like that in the collectible space. Then you have our show Family Feud and, you know, Deal or no Deal and all these games that we make up and play, getting the audience involved, yelling at the contestants to try to get the right answer, it's just so much fun. And we bring a little bit of stage show element to it. My producer, Dan, is a big WWE fan, and he's like, we need to make these entrances for these creators feel like, you know, an entrance to, you know, like, the Undertaker's coming out. And it's like. And it's like, let's just design something that's fun and interactive and engaging. And we've learned a lot. The first year, we used to do this thing called Snorlax Time, where our team would come out in Snorlax costumes and just start throwing packs and collectibles into the audience. And then what ended up happening was it was just got. It got way too dangerous. So we found new ways the next year to kind of make it happen. I had a friend who had an event where he ran. This was a business event, but he ran Guinness World Record attempts that the whole audience could get involved with. Like, most people to float down a river on a tube or something like this together. And I was like, how did you do that? And he's like, oh, well, here's. Here's my. Here's the number of the guy. And we ended up doing a world record at the first card party. Most people opening a trading card game pack simultaneously, all at once. And it was over 1100 people. We all had to put our packs in the air for five seconds, open it, and then show the cards. And the judge and the adjudicator was there. And then we got the record, and we got it presented to us from the guy who was there. And everybody who could go home or everybody who went home could say they were a world record holder, you know, and it was a cool thing, a cool gift to give to those people who were there in those first couple runs. We decided to stop doing the world record, though, because it cost $30,000 to do in that sort of setting. It's kind of ridiculous. And, yeah, that's how they make their money. But we decided to use that money to do other things that were much better and more interactive and, you know, in the card collectible space. But, yeah, we have a couple world records now. But most of all, we've had people come back every single year to meet their friends. I mean, like I was saying earlier, people call it, like camp. It's like, you see your friends and there's a little friendly competition that happens to you when you get to the. Again, these are just ideas to make the event fun. When you come to card party, you get put on a team, red or Blue. The second year, it was, you know, Ruby or. It was Ruby or Sapphire or Gold or Silver. And you get put on these teams similar to, like, Harry Potter, and you earn points for, like, Slytherin or Raven's Claw or, you know, Hufflepuff, whatever Gryffindor needed to say that, because y' all would feel left out if I didn't say that. And then you earn points by opening packs, depending on what you get inside. On stage, the creators and the audience competes for their team. And then at the end, you win a trophy card if you're part of the winning team. And again, it just adds another element to it that makes it more fun and different. We also hire real artists in our space, like fan art people who create cards that are then collectible cards at our event. And you have to go to the different places at the event to. To get them. For example, there's often, like an arcade or crane machine and one of the cards you have to go to that Sponsor who has the crane machine. It's great for the sponsor, but it's great for the event too, because it forces people to go out there and. And that's one of people's favorite parts of the show is collecting these cards. And, you know, they have some people come and they get to Card Party four and they're like, oh my gosh, I have the cards from Card Party one and it's pretty cool. And it's designed by people like us. And, you know, again, we're adding more and more as much as we can every single time. It's. We get like unique songs made that I write for for Card Party, and those have been played tens of thousands of times on Spotify now, just like, what. What can we do that's different? And a lot of these ideas are coming from the audience members themselves. So, you know, we try to add that fun, you know, the edutainment. It's not even. It's not even education here at this point. Although we do have, you know, breakout sessions where myself and my producer, we're teaching YouTube, we're teaching how to do YouTube shorts. We have a couple other creators come up to teach some stuff on their end as well. So we do have those kinds of things. But we've replaced like the boring keynotes at business events with the game show element. And it's just been a hit, an absolute hit. We have three events this year. We should have like 9,000 people in San Diego. We sold out a thousand tables before the end of the year, and we're already planning into 2028 and 2029 at this point. So then I'm assuming you believe that card shows in, in general could come a little further towards the entertainment space. I mean, yeah, I mean, there's versus card shows. I mean, you got card shows that happen, you know, three, four times a year. You know, like Dallas card shows, what, once a quarter now? I don't know. Well, you have Collecticon, who's 25, 28 times a year or something like that, and they've carved out. Carved out a great space. They have this machine going and it's great. And if, you know, you want to go to like a giant convention with cards and meet people, vendors and, you know, work on your. That's great. I love CollectCon. It's amazing, but it's not the event that I would want to create. And I do feel like a lot of other events can benefit from thinking more about the experiential things that can happen there. That's really, how you create superfans, it's not from being transactional, it's being experiential. And that starts before people arrive. You know, one thing we do is we send a video. I film a video for all the attendees before they arrive, already welcoming them to the event. I don't know of any other event founders doing that. It's very easy. Go, you should do that. Like, I'm not saying, like, steal these ideas, please, because it just makes the hobby better for everybody. You know, I create a separate video for the vendors so they know what to expect. You know, this big giant notion board that we have that has all the things you might need about where things are happening. And when we give that to people ahead of time, we, I don't know, just. We put ourselves in the shoes of people coming. And we want to make, for example, registration super smooth, as smooth as possible. So this year we invested in a little security machine that you just kind of walk through. Because I was at Disney World and I saw that and I was like, guys, we need this to make registration easier. How much is it going to cost? Well, $25,000. Worth it? Yeah, absolutely worth it. If people can just walk through and then if there happens to be anything found in the detectors, then they stop, versus, like, let's look through everybody's bag. Great. Like, we need to make it safe. Absolutely. But we also don't want to have people waiting in line before they get into the show for hours. So things like that are really important to us. And only now, finally, after three years, have we finally seen some profit from the event. We were under over 100k in that first event because we didn't sell into the hotel rooms that we blocked out because people thought it was like those other events that you can kind of just come in for a day and leave. But people finally realize, like, oh, like this thing goes until midnight, 1am in the hallways, people trading on the floors inside the lobby. Like, I want to stay at the hotel. So next year in Florida, we sold out the hotels very quickly because people now knew, oh, it's kind of like a cruise. You kind of book your space there and you're there with the same people and then you leave. It's not. I mean, there are locals who come in and out every day, but, you know, we lost money on that one too, because we were learning, we're experimenting. But again, I thankfully have that kind of money to lose so that I can hopefully getting, you know, get some gains down the road. And we're finally seeing some profit now. And part of that is because, you know, sponsors are like, oh, okay, cool. This is a legit event. We weren't sure in the beginning, but, yeah, we want to go big with you. So, you know, we're starting to see some more money come in, which is great. And a lot of that's just going back into the experience for people at the event. I love it, man. You're doing so much cool. And I'm having fun, bro. I mean, dude, you are, man. It shows. Thank you. You got time for, like, a quick rapid fire? Yeah, rapid fire. Let's go. All right, you've hit. You may have hit one or two of these, but we'll hit them anyway. Favorite Pokemon card? Favorite Pokemon card. I have it here just in case you had that question. It is my Mario Pikachu XY 2016. I bought the whole set in a PSA 10 in 2020 just because I loved the card. I had no thought of it ever going up in price. I bought the entire set already graded in a PSA 10 sequential. There's four of them. The Luigi, and then the half arts of each for $400. Oh, my God. That card right now recently sold for 33k, which is kind of ridiculous. Yeah. But again, there's no thought of me, like, going, oh, are we at the top? I'm not selling this thing. I don't care what the price is. I don't care if it goes to zero. I love it. Most memorable pull. Most memorable pull. We were opening Vivid Voltage, and when I say we, it was my kids and I, and we pulled the Rainbow Chonkachu out of that set. That's the chase. It's not a very expensive card today, but it was what we were looking for. We pulled it together as a family on our dining table, and it was, like, the craziest thing. The kids were screaming, shouting. It was one of the most fun moments. I ripped probably $100,000 in boxes with my kids over, like, six months. And we had many of those moments. It's the best. The best rip or sealed. What would I do? Or what should you do? What should everyone else do? I don't know. I love my sealed collection. I have a pretty extensive sealed collection, not just in Pokemon, but in one piece and Lorcana as well. And I just. I don't have a problem keeping those things sealed, even though there could be something amazing inside. I just love the. Again, the sort of Schrodinger's kind of pack or box of what's Inside. And you know, I know as soon as I open, it's going to be nothing. But hey, if it's sealed, there's still a chance. Never know. I love Seal, even though I open packs almost every day on the, on the channel. One card. You'll never sell one card on average. Well, I, I talked about the, the Pokemon, the Pikachu already. But the other one will be my Van Gogh Pikachu. I just, again, I picked that one up really early. It's just an amazing piece of art. I love that. There was also another set of Pokemon cards that came out. It was a Pikachu with another card. It was a set of Cramorants. It was in a postage stamp collection box. And these are Japanese style paintings on these cards. And the art is incredible. Those, those are. That's a collection I'll never sell as well. One thing people get wrong about Pokemon. One people. One thing people get wrong about Pokemon feel like a lot of people when they get into this hobby, they want to collect everything. And I like to say the riches are in the niches. I say that in my business space, even though I know it's pronounced niches. It doesn't rhyme as well. And what I mean by that is part of collecting is the discipline of saying no to other things so that you can better the collection focus that you have now. You can always collect other things later. But if you spread yourself too thin, like most of us want to do, we collect everything. You're never going to make any progress. You're going to spread yourself and your budget thin. You're going to not know the exact resources you need to finish that set or that series of Pokemon or that particular species of Pokemon. One thing at a time is often the best thing. Maybe adding a second thing in there. But the riches are in the niches. And riches doesn't necessarily even mean riches in dollars. It's riches and joy. Riches in adventure. Those things happen when you have focus. You know, I'm from the South. We can say riches are in the niches. The reaches are in the niches. Bad. It's been a blast, man. I loved catching up with you. I'm serious about getting those shoes, man. I want you to come here. I know you're busy, man. We'll figure it out over the next year or something. Hello. I want to do it. Thank you. Where in the south are you? We're in. It's Greenville. We're between Charlotte and Atlanta. It's one of the fastest growing small cities in America. It's beautiful, sweet. A lot of culture, a lot of cool. Well, there's a lot of card stuff going on in Atlanta. I know quite a bit. If I'm ever over there, I'll hit you up. I'll send a car down. You know, you don't have to move. It's been a blast. Drop everybody know. I think a lot of people listening probably know where to find you, but let's drop those deets for everybody. Sure. Deep Pocket Monster on most social media platforms. Deep Pocket Monster official on Instagram, TikTok of course, is there too, but YouTube and of course the, the shorts channel. You'll probably find me. Should I open it or should I keep it sealed? If you look that up, you'll. You'll find my thumbs somewhere. Appreciate you, brother. It's been a blast. Thanks, man. Hey, guys, you're to find us the collectornation.com. you can download the app and the app store, you can go to the website. It's all there. We'll have links to all of Pat's stuff. He's doing some great things. And look, go pick up one of his business books if you're in business. Or go listen to that episode from three years ago. It's still relevant now. Pat's a beast. We appreciate him. We appreciate you. We'll see you next time. Collect your nation. Thanks for tuning in to the show. Be sure to follow us on your go to podcast platform and catch the full video episode over on YouTube. Visit us@collectornation.com and follow Ryan on Instagram at Ryan Alford. Now get out there and collect yours.