Sports Card & Pokemon Hobby Fight: Is Setting Up As A Vendor At A Sports Card Show Really Worth It?

If we knew more about our sleep, what would we do differently? Would we go to bed at a consistent time or take steps to reduce interruptions to our sleep? With Sleep Score, Apple Watch measures your bedtime consistency, interruptions and sleep duration. Then every morning it combines these factors into an easy to understand score from 1 to 100. So you'll know how to take the quality of your sleep from okay to very high. Know your sleep score with Apple Watch iPhone 11 or later required. What's up everybody? It's Gary Vee and this is the Sports Card Strategy Show. Because you know this, there is no off season. No off season when you get into this game. The reason why you pay someone like Paul Hickey to get your sports card strategy together is because when you're starting out, you need perspective, you need wisdom, you need insights. And so he's been around the track enough times where he can actually coach you up and guide you. Doesn't mean he's going to take you to the promised land tomorrow. But you now have a coach by your side that can advise and kind of even create these pathways where you can get the education yourself. And that's a lot better than thugging it out on your own. The kids better buy my rookie card now because after this year, the price ain't coming down. Welcome in everybody. I'm your host, Paul Hickey. It's time to sit back, listen, learn and earn with me on the Sports Card Strategy Show. Welcome in Nooffseason.com family. We're always so happy to have you with us here to help you make money flipping sports cards using data driven sports card investing. On today's show we have a special guest, co host, Clark Kim. He's become a good friend of mine. Clark is a co founder of a successful hobby website called five card guys five card guys.com and they also have five card guys on Instagram, so check him out. And he is the co host of a very popular podcast called Cards to the Moon. So on today's show we're going to discuss some card show strategy. We'll discuss Is setting up as a vendor at a card show really worth it or is it better to walk the show? We're going to talk about Mike Trout and some sports card strategy surrounding Mike Trout. Sell now, Buy More, hold why and listen. Many of you have listened to the Sports Card Strategy show for a long time now and have thought about subscribing to Nooffseason.com as a premium member. But for some reason you've been waiting something's been holding you back. Well, I'm here to tell you that your wait is over. Don't let someone else grab your spot. Nooffseason.com helps you make real profits flipping sports cards with insider data, proven strategies and exclusive access to undervalued cards before the rest of the market catches on. Check out nooffseason.com now to see if there are any spots available. We actually limit our premium membership spots. If there's not any spots available, don't worry. Just join the wait list to get in on the next drop and we're going to get you in. All right. Also, Sports Card Strategy show is powered and sponsored by Slab Dynasty Cards, a next gen sports card platform built for collectors that includes a 2% marketplace fee and a choose your chase feature as well. Start your dynasty today using code no off season for 20% off your first Slab Dynasty purchase. All right, let's welcome in my main man, Clark Kim to the Sports Card Strategy Show. How you doing, man? Not too bad. Great to be back. It's been a little while. I know we've both been busy, so yeah, great to connect in this way. Absolutely. It's great to have you back this time as a guest co host on the Sports Card Strategy Show. And I know this is going to air on Cards to the Moon too. So shout out to sure Cards to the Moon listeners. We love all of you. Clark and I like he's alluding to, we were in a nice little cadence of creating content together and we want to try to get back into that. So, Clark. All right, so for those of you that don't know you very well, I think there's actually a good way to introduce people to their collector identity or their hobby identity, how they identify. And our, our friend Jeremy Lee of Sports Cards Live built something called the hobby spectrum.com for those of you that aren't familiar with it, you should go check it out. For those of you who are familiar with it, it's basically a, he calls it a comprehensive assessment. Right. So you go to the hobby spectrum.com, you take a comprehensive assessment and then it identifies you as one of seven collector archetypes, which is really cool. And there's a directory so you can connect with other people in the hobby there. So we've talked about it on the Sports Card Strategy show before. I'm not sure if you're familiar with it, but Clark, I want to ask you, what do you think your collector identity is if, if you haven't taken the assessment yet, Like I was saying off air. I was like, right in the middle of it. So I think I'm on question 28 out of 50. So it's pretty comprehensive, but I'm like almost two thirds of the way there. But just looking at the categories, I'm going to predict, and I'll let you know afterwards, I'll text you, but I'm going to predict them. Probably hybrid, which is kind of a mix. It says here, driven by emotion and strategy. Collects with balanced awareness of personal and market factors. That kind of sounds like me to a T, actually. So I'm going to guess hybrid. Kind of the middle of the spectrum, so to speak, is where I land. We'll see. I like that. It's. I didn't. I didn't have a prediction for you before you said that. But, like, knowing what I know about you through creating content together, I feel like that is. That's spot on because it says, like, emotion and strategy. And I've heard you talk about just liking something. You know, just really, really liking something and wanting to. Wanting to acquire it. But then I've also. I also know that you're not just out there buying crap because you like it. There's a strategy behind it. So I like the hybrid. That's cool. All right, so I took the assessment several months ago, and my collector archetype is. What do you think it is? I'm gonna go with tycoon. Oh, nice. I like that prediction. See, I thought I was gonna be a tycoon, but I'm actually an operator. That was my second guess. I thought you would be on that end of the spectrum, but makes sense to me too, for sure. So operator says strategic and analytical. Definitely. That's like. I think if you ask anybody that knows me, like, in my personal life or through the hobby, they would probably say that. They would probably also say I'm profit focused, for sure, which is tycoon. Strategic and analytical, driven by market insight and conviction. Invest with discipline and purpose. Yeah, definitely. Like, I think maybe. See, you haven't gotten through the whole assessment yet, but I'm interested in your take. The. There's a couple questions in there that sort of lend themselves to being a little bit more risky to try to get more profit. And I think that's why I'm not a tycoon. I think. I think that I answered. I think there's like two or three specific questions in there where my answer was more on the. More towards the middle of the spectrum, actually, which I think is why I'm an operator. Even though, like 90 of the questions, I'm just like, yeah, profit, profit, profit. You know. Right. Like unemotional. Unemotional, unemotional. All right, cool. So shout out to Jeremy Lee sports cards live. Check out the hobby spectrum. Okay, Clark. One thing I ask everyone that's like a little bit different than the hobby spectrum is like, what is their hobby? Why, like, why are they in the hobby? I can't remember if I've ever asked you this, but what. What is your hobby? Why? Yeah, I guess it's changed over the years, but, you know, when I first got into it, it's pure nostalgia play. Right. Like a lot of us, many of us, even the guests I interview on our podcast, it's similar stories. Oh, we collected as a kid and, and, you know, now we have disposable income that now that we're in our 30s, 40s, 50s, and you know, we like to buy nice cards that we couldn't afford as kids. So that's how it started. But now that I do this on a full time basis, I guess that's evolved, right? That question of hobby, why is that I get to do something I really enjoy doing, providing hobby content, staying up with the hobby news, as well as funding my collection that, you know, that's kind of what we were alluding to earlier about me taking a more hybrid approach. So it's kind of this mix of. I see myself as a collector and investor type equally. Almost. Almost like a 50, 50 in a way. So, I mean, that lends itself to a larger debate or discussion about, you know, who's the hobby for. It's like the collectors are furious at investors. Investors don't get collectors. I'm like, right in the middle. I'm. I'm in the boat where it's. We could all coexist guys, you know, so that's, that's kind of to answer the whole hobby. Why is I. I could draw from both sides, you know, so that's kind of, I guess, how I see myself. Yeah, that's awesome. That's a great hobby. Why? And I feel like you're in it to be, to, to make sure everybody's having fun. Like you're, you're like the guy that is wanting to just kind of make sure that whether it's at a card show or whether it's just talking about making plays or anything in between, that everyone is like, positive and having fun. And I think that that's a, that's a great thing. So actually, before I ask you what your Sports card strategy is because that's a little bit different type of question. I want to ask a couple follow up questions about your hobby. Why, sure. So you kind of alluded to this collectors versus investors thing. I got into that with a couple content creators in a very friendly way. Like, it wasn't like an actual, it wasn't like actual bad blood or anything like that. But there, there were some content creators a few years ago that were sort of challenging me about what I do. And because again, I'm that, I'm that tycoon slash operator and talk about, you know, just come out and say, like, we're here to help you make money flipping sports cards. So there were people that, that, that kind of rubbed the wrong way and they kind of challenged me. And all the while I'm kind of thinking, man, it's like easy to do what you do. Like, you're just buying cards. Like, you guys are just like, you're just like, oh, I like that card. I'm gonna buy it. And I understand the nostalgia piece that you mentioned earlier because, like, that's kind of where it started. But then it evolved for you and that for me, it started as, oh, yeah, nostalgia is cool and everything. I like looking at this David Robinson 1989 Hoops at the press conference or, you know, for the Spurs. I remember that card as a kid and that was the card that like really got me into the hobby. But I don't really care because I can go buy as many of those as I want and then they're just sitting there. So what's the fun in that? So we got into this, like, debate about collecting versus investing. What is your, like, what is your experience with that? Like, have you had any, any situations where it's gotten like super heated, maybe even over social media or just things that you've observed? Like, what, what's your, what's your take overall on that? Because I kind of try to avoid it, to be honest. Like, I kind of try to just let everybody do their thing. And if someone's talking about, if someone's challenging me, I mean, I have my response, I have my hobby. Why? And like, I think the only time that it act, the only time I actually ever get challenged anymore is when I go on Jeremy Lee's show and there's people in the comments and the comments on the live chat, right? Like, hating and I have to like, address it. But what, what's your take? No, that's, that's a good question. And it's insightful because, yeah, I definitely, you know, anyone that follows me @5card guys on Instagram, occasionally I'll put a card up there and then kind of show you the market data, like where it's what the price was in five years ago and then four years ago, three years ago to the current to where we are now. And then I'll occasionally get comments too. It's like, why are you even posting this? Like, why, you know, why are you putting dollars on like is, you know, is it because you want to make a profit? I'm like, well, yeah, sometimes I do want to make a profit off some of these cards and I want to see what the trends are. So there are always those types where like I was saying, like it, they're just pure collectors. And honestly I don't have an issue being a people being pure collectors and they just buy the card they love and you know, but like I said, there's room for different kind of collectors and sometimes, and not all pure collectors are snarky like that, but there are a few that feel like that's just that there should only be pure collector types. And, and then, you know, if you extrapolate that, then the hobby just, I don't believe would exist at all. I just feel like it would just be in a way very exclusive. And I think, I think no one wants to enjoy a hobby where there are only one types of collectors. So that's kind of where I stand, you know, and on the other side of things, sure, I get people being, you know, rubbed the wrong way a little bit. Like you were saying that to see money as the pure play and that's their main motive. And, but I don't, I don't knock people for that either. Like, that's for me again, that's how they would like to collect. And I think they're a valuable part of the ecosystem, the hobby ecosystem. You know, the money needs to come in and flow. And I think like any industry, you need those collectors as collectors or investor types in the hobby as well to make it all work. Yeah, absolutely. I think, I think to me it boils down to we're all sort of collectors and investors. And the reason I say that is because the people who identify on the hobby spectrum as purists or nostalgia nostalgic or precisionists, like when they, they come out on that end of the spectrum, the reality is they're better flippers than a lot of the people that are operators and tycoons. They're more educated and they've been in the hobby longer to understand what is desirable and what is going to go up in value. Right. The only difference is that they don't sell as much. They just acquire more and keep their stuff longer. But they do sell stuff that they realize they don't want anymore so that they can buy other stuff. I think that, like, I've gotten to the point over the last, like, almost seven years now where I've gotten very good at doing that. The only difference is my. I just sell everything. You know, I just enjoy. I enjoy the same aspects of the hobby that the people on the other end of the spectrum enjoy. I just sell everything and then. And I use my experience from selling everything and transacting all the time to create content and build a business around that. And so I think. I think we're all doing the same thing, actually. And I think that the hobby, the sports card hobby, the. The collectibles, I'll throw. I'll throw collectibles out there. Even though I think sports cards is, like, super niche within collectibles. I think that when you're in collectibles, you are an entrepreneur. You know, you're looking at. And this could be anything. This could be, you know, people that are. That are doing something completely outside of sports, right? Like antiquing or whatever. Like, you're. There's an entrepreneurship aspect of what we do. And so you can't. You can't be somebody on the other end of the spectrum and just be like, oh, you guys just want to make money on this? Like, to your point. Yeah, I do. What do you just want to acquire stuff that's going to go down in value? That's not what you're doing. You're, you know, like, let's be real with each other. So it's like, I think. And then the other thing, too, that I learned is that somebody told me this. Mike Lacusta, who I haven't talked to in a while, but he was creating some content for a while. He kind of told me that he had a bad taste in his mouth about the word flipper. And I said, well, why? Because to me, I use the word flipping to describe buying singles on ebay and then either grading them or selling them in the same condition just at a different marker in the future where I think that's going to go up in value. We call them selling markers. I'm like, why do you. Why is that bad? And he's like, well, no, that's not what I'm talking about. When I. When I hear flipper, I'm like, What are you talking about? He goes, I'm talking about the people that rush the shelves at retail when there's a new release. Yeah. Push over little kids and buy everything and then go sell them for four times the amount on the secondary market. Then that made me wonder, is that why people associate investing in flipping with something negative? I don't know. What's your take on that? No, that's interesting because I don't know if you know, but the Pokemon card market is just on fire right now. And we'll talk about it later on in the show. When I set up at the sports card show, I sold more Pokemon cards than sports cards. And I did not expect that for me because I'm primarily, I still consider myself primarily a sports card collector, but just because the market's been hot, I've been really interested in it. And, and in that Pokemon TCG card world, they don't call them flippers, they call them scalpers. So it's even a negative. Right. More negative connotation of what that is. So to your point, I feel like there is maybe people that think about flippers think about them more like as scalpers. You know, we're of the age scalpers, remember, you know, you go to baseball game, they look shady with their tickets and they're, they're calling for like cardboard sign. Cardboard sign, exactly. Those days. So, yeah, we all have this connotation of, let's say it's, it's just negative. So, so yeah, I don't know, maybe there needs to be more education on that. But in reality, like, I know there's a lot of TCG card collectors that really despise quote unquote scalpers, yet a lot of them are at shows with singles and they're flipping for thousands of dollars more than what they got it for. So I mean, semantics here or like, what. What's going on? Right. If we truly want to assess the situation for what it is. Yeah. Is this a pot calling the kettle black situation? What's going on here? Well, that's good stuff. I mean, I think that those topics are super compelling and I'm interested to get into the, to the Expo, the, the Toronto Expo that you were at not too long ago. But before we get into that, I like to ask people, what is your sports card strategy? And I think what I mean by that is like, as you're in your day to day and you're obviously anyone we talk to on this show is transacting, you're buying and you're selling. So there's got to be some kind of thought process behind that. Right? So how would you describe that? What is your sports card strategy? Yeah, for me, I just like to simplify things because there's so many different inventory that's out there that you can collect and buy. Um, and so it could become overwhelming. So for me, what helps in terms of my sports card strategy is to simplify certain pillars that I, you know, would generally go by. You know, I could deviate every once in a while. But some of these pillars are nowadays with me trying to make some money back in the middle to long term. I try to find serial numbered cards. So there's a scarcity factor in there. Extra things like color match, you know, that's, that's kind of what I enjoy collecting anyway. So that kind of marries the, the fact that, you know, enjoy what you collect. But also it's also could be financially rewarding because there's a lot of people that do like color match cards. I could speak on that later on at the sports card show that I was set up at. And, and rookie cards, like those are kind of my three pillars like Rookie traditionally had held more value with modern cards. These days, numbered cards are important and then little extras like Color Match and then the brand itself, like Topps, Chrome Bubble Chrome. Like there's so many different variations of products out there. I like to focus on the main kind of top brands that I know have traditionally held value. So that's kind of my strategy in terms of looking for certain cards. And, and these days I've been adding one more pillar. It's like I'm really interested in the super fracture area of things because it's, it's kind of crazy. Again, I'll. I could expand on a little bit more at the sports card show, but I have my Bobby Wood Jr home field advantage super fracture that everyone that listens to my podcast knows I talk about a lot and I got it for a certain amount. But with the one of one, you could really price it at anything. And all it takes is one person to say yes to that card. And it's really interesting play. I wouldn't put all my money in super fractures. It's a high risk situation there. But having a few where it could be an outlier down the road, that makes things interesting for me too. So yeah, all those four or five things I just mentioned, I kind of try to. If it kind of matches any of those, most of those categories, I'm really interested in those cards. There is some amazing stuff in There. So like, I think number one, you talked about you have a simplified narrowed focus and, but it also allows you to do different things within that focus, which is cool. So like, you didn't mention you're only looking for a specific type of player. You, you mentioned like three sort of different avenues of cards, like actual types of cards that you're looking for and then brands that you're looking for within those cards. So I think like, I think a narrow focus is super important. And you use the word like simplification. Do you like to simplify things? And I think that's super smart. So I really like that. And of course, like Topps, Chrome and the other brand like Bowman, those are obviously like brands that now span multiple sports. Right? Like they're traditionally baseball brands. I know you're a baseball guy, you'll talk more about that. But also you can, you know, there's Bowman basketball now and there's obviously tops Chrome for, for multiple sports. So the other thing too that you mentioned that I have never, it's never happened on the sports card strategy show. So this is the first time, which is awesome. Super fracture strategy. It's out there. I am now excited about a potential super fracture strategy. I always thought super factors were out of my reach, but, but I mean, maybe talk a little bit more about that. Like there's obviously super fractures that maybe are more attainable that there's a play with. Is that kind of. Yeah, for sure. I mean, we. It kind of evolved from the thought that in this modern collecting age, the one of one or the super fractures isn't as special as it was before. You know, there's so many different products coming out and, and there's like multiple one of ones of, of players. And especially with baseball and basketball and in football now with the under the top Scorm brand, you'll get super fractures that have a distinct look as well. Right. The, the concentric circles, you know, and, and so when people see it in person, it is definitely eye catching. And the fact that everyone knows that the super fracture is a one of one, you know, and if they like the player. And this is, I forgot to add another category. It's kind of almost one A, one B category is players. Like players I believe in that I want to collect. That's kind of factored into what I like to pick up. But yeah, if it's like someone like Bobby Witt, you know, who I'm a really strong believer in. It's amazing how many Bobby Witt fans come in and they're like, oh, that's amazing looking. And they look closer like, oh wow, this is a 1 of 1. How much is it? And then they have to factor in if that's in their budget as well, you know, and you never know. Like at the Sport Card Expo at the there were quite a few that asked and, and maybe a couple that were like humming and hawing. I'm like, this is crazy. If they're willing to pay the amount that I just threw out there. I mean I can't, I've got to be stupid to not accept it. Right. But the fact that there is someone that might consider it, it's crazy to me. So that got my, you know, brain thinking a little bit more about this so called super factor strategy. Maybe I should look into others that are, you know, because there are so many more one of ones. Yeah, it's not necessarily five figure cards. You could buy some that are a thousand bucks maybe and, and then you know, if that player appreciates the way they play or become popular in whatever way because it's a one on one, you're like, okay, I'm gonna just 5x this. I think it's 5x the value now. Yeah. And then you know, the red for the only other comp is looking at the red refractor but trying to determine the multiplier between a red or orange to the super. It's a little subjective as well. So that's what makes it interesting for me. I love it. I love it. I think there's a lot to the super fracture strategy that we need to continue to unpack in future content because to your point, if you think about it, there's probably only going to be zero or one comp for it in a lot of them. There's probably no comps. And so then people are trying to figure out what it's worth and so you can, you can throw that out there. There's, there's also, and everything you described is I would say the kind of the main selling points. But then I would add, you know, you've got people, you've got collectors that want, that need the one of one in their mind because they're trying to complete the entire serial numbered whatever parallel. The rainbow. Yeah, exactly. Do people still call it that? Like, is that, is that term the rainbow? Is that like the term that everyone's using still? I guess, I guess so hybrid on, on the show right now. I'm just the operator. I mean what makes it more difficult to call it the rainbow is that there's so many different parallels out there. Like disco ball or, you know, like. So it's not even by color anymore. It's, you know, by shapes. So. So, yeah, to your point, maybe they don't call it the rainbow anymore, but they used to. I remember. I remember not too long ago, people were chasing the rainbow, like Skittles. So that's a great sports card. Great answer to what is your sports card strategy? Okay, we're about to get into a few different things that we've alluded to. So recently you were at the Toronto Expo and talk about the good, the bad, and the ugly. Like, walk us through what your thoughts are after. After going to that show. Yeah, so I've been at the Toronto Sport Card Expo for multiple years now, especially since I got came back to the hobby. But I've never set up a booth or was a vendor until this, this past week, really, just for the spring Expo. So, yeah, that was a great experience for me. I learned a lot, you know, to speak of strategies. I change it up each day on. In terms of, like, how do I display my cards in a. In a way that attracts more people to come to the booth. But. But yeah, I had a great time and it, you know, the hobby's certainly growing. I think someone mentioned that the Sport Card Expo this year, the layout was almost double the physical size, so there was more ground to cover, therefore, more vendors. But it was also spaced out really well, too. Like before, we're stuck in this one or two main halls, and, you know, it kind of felt like the National. We both were at the National. It's. It gets crowded in some areas where you're, like, trying to, you know, get by someone. But it was a little more spacious because of the. Because of the bigger physical layout. So I enjoyed that. The downside, of course, is that people don't. We were set up at the second hall, kind of in the middle. There's 1, 2, and 3. We're kind of in the middle. And the main hall is like, you know, Jeremy Lee's at the main hall. You know, he has a name. And. And that's a bigger hall. And you could suspend the whole day in the main hall without even knowing that there's a second and third part to it. So that's the downside of it, too. And, you know, people came to us. Several people said, like, wow, I didn't even know you guys were set up here. I'm like. I'm like, come on, organizers, you got to put some more signs, get some more traffic. But the good part is it's a multiple day show like the national four days. So there are a lot of people that go for multiple days. Like you see them not just come for one day, so the second day they'll eventually get to where you are and spend some more time there. But yeah, as a vendor, as a booth, just being at a booth. Yeah, eye opening experience, especially if you have enough slabs, definitely beneficial for you to just display it out there. For me, you mentioned kind of in passing, I'm more of a baseball card collector. So that's a lot of my cards are baseball cards. But the Sport Card Expo is still predominantly hockey as you as you can guess or would assume in Canada. But it's become more diverse and then you know, the other side is the Pokemon TCG card market is growing very rapidly. So there was a huge section just devoted to that. So I was lucky to have enough Pokemon cards ripping with my son and like having just extra inventory that I brought and I sold a bunch of these singles. It's crazy how it was a really Pokemon cards was an even bigger magnet for my booth than my, you know, lower end Ohtani's. So. So yeah, diversifying in a way helped me out a bit. But yeah, overall, like will my co host on Cards to the Moon. We're already thinking that we're going to do it again in November for the winter show. And and so yeah, great positive overall experience. That's great to hear. So you've been there for multiple years. Seems like it's growing. Set up as a vendor for the first time. So this is like the spring show. I'm curious to see if you do go to the winter show and set up. I'm curious to see like is there a seasonality difference in terms of attendees and vendors and everything. I know like for example, other shows that I've attended multiple times, like Culture Collision, there's kind of been like it's a great show but there's kind of been like some really down shows and then some shows that do better and like they have two of those a year now and, and like my experience is that like one does really well, the other doesn't. And then. And so I'm encouraged overall obviously. And like, and same thing with the Nashville card show actually like the Nashville, the Nash Dash and all. There's like a quarterly big Nashville show. Nice. And the same thing. It's like I've set up as a vendor in like the, the spring and I've set up as a vendor like in the winter and, and some seasons are great. Other seasons are, are bad. Like I, I had a bad experience setting up as a vendor one time and it got me thinking, like, is it even worth it to set up as a vendor? So what, what do you think after you've set up at the Toronto Expo for the first time as a vendor? No, really good question. Because now thinking about the November show, I wonder, traditionally it's, it's hockey season. Just, just started and being a major or mainly a hockey kind of card expo, essentially, those obviously do well. But since I don't have any hockey cards to sell, I wonder if that's going to be something that impacts, you know, my ability to sell cards for the November show. So definitely something to consider. The thing that would still make me want to do it is like I mentioned, maybe I go more heavy on Pokemon cards because Pokemon cards, you know, their season is all year, so you don't have to worry about the seasonality. There is no off season in Pokemon. There you go. You need a, you need to have a Pokemon segment for your show. Yeah, actually, so pausing that real quick. I want to ask you this anyway. Make, make me an argument. Why should I get into Pokemon and tcg? Lefty and I. Lefty was just joking with me on one of the last episodes about like, can you even name four Pokemon? And like I, I couldn't. Like, I forgot that I've even forgot about Charizard. That's how bad I am. Like make, make an argument like, am I totally missing out? Do I need to, do I need to start getting into this being a scalper? Oh, it's like, you know, if someone asked you during COVID it's like, should I get into sports cards? And you know, it's the peak. You know there are top signals and you know it's going to regress. But what would your answer be to that? Like, it's like, yeah, sports cards, Trey carefully. And you know it's not going to go off forever. But yeah, at the same time you believe that it's not going to completely die out. It's not going to be Junk Wax 2.0. There's going to be cards that do rise to the top and you got to ride out the rough waves, so to speak. I think that's similar to where we are in the Pokemon Karma. Like we are coming to the top at some point because it's so hot. It can't just sustain like this, these levels for, for a while. But at the same time, I think it'll do fine even when it regresses a little. And, and I think so, yes, I think it's educational. You know, it's. It's better to educate yourself. I mean, to, to just know what the market is. And. Yeah, and, and because especially for you, like, if, if, you know, financial upside is. Is of interest, there's certainly a lot of people making money on Pokemon cards right now. And, and like, like all things, you got to do your own research. But. But yeah, there's. There's definitely opportunities. The only tricky part is, is a lot of it is sentiment driven. Obviously. Like, you got your favorite characters and, you know, you can't judge them on the way they perform on the field or on the court. So it's like, I guess these are popular characters, the artwork. You know, art is very subjective, so that's also a thing to consider. But you know, if you like it, if you think other people will enjoy it as, as art, especially for only the collector types, then then that has a chance to go up. And scarcity too. Like, there's certain cards that are hard to gem. You know, in terms of scarcity, for Pokemon cards, it's kind of more like, like vintage because they're. They're zero numbered cards. Like, there's. The scarcity doesn't come in the numbered cards. It comes in whether a certain card is known to really be hard to find in good condition just because of the print lines or, or, you know, like I said, more like a vintage almost mindset. You know, like all vintage cards look the same, but not all of them in terms of quality are created equal. So some cards are just harder to jam, providing that scarcity and others just don't make sense. I have a card, the Pikachu Van Gogh. I don't know if I'm speaking gibberish to you, but I got it for 400 bucks a couple years ago and it's at 4,000 right now. Right. So Canadian. So 3,000 US close enough. Right, so. And that pop count for a PSA 10 is closing in on 50,000. So it doesn't make sense. But yeah, other than the demand being. Yeah, the demand is outweighing this. Okay. That's actually a really good piece of data to show how popular it is. And the demand, I'll say weighing the supply of 50,000. Exactly. And I'll say that about demand, you know, like when products drop on the Pokemon center website, the official website, you know. And think about this. When the tops Chrome products drop, majority of the people that are trying to buy it online. When the drop happens, let's say it, it's primarily North America, the U.S. canada, you got some more international customers. It's growing out there too. Pokemon is truly international. You're competing with German Pokemon collectors, Japanese Pokemon collectors, North American. Like it is. It's incredible the, the demand that can be out there for Pokemon card products. So yeah, the demand is, yeah, in that regard that, that does make sense that the demand is outweighing the supply of, you know, 50,000 on a, on a PSA 10 in. So in a way you sold me on Pokemon because what I like about it, if I, if I were to get into it, I would approach it the same way that I tell people. I wish I would have approached sports cards back in like 2020, which was I jumped in and I just started doing things and specifically I started like buying things, right. And I got through, I went through my old collection and I was dealing with that at the same time as I was like buying stuff. And I wish that I would have observed and looked at more data and like educated myself further before I started actually spending my own money. Some people learn by doing and I'm typically, that's typically been me. But I think with the experience that I've had in the sports card hobby, if I were to get into Pokemon, I would challenge myself not to buy anything for a very long, for as long as possible before I like actually gained as much knowledge as possible. So I think that I would take the approach of like looking at the data, looking at the sales and trying to understand like what's desirable first before. And just what I did in sports cards was like, just go and buy a bunch of stuff and then learn the hard way. So that's good. It could be a new opportunity, could be a fresh start to be like, here's a market kind of like what you described, like back when I got into sports cards. It's kind of like that's where Pokemon is right now in terms of how the prices are. And that's interesting. So who knows? I don't know. Like, I think the thing I struggle with is what something you already mentioned, which is how do you know other than what's totally subjective to a potential buyer, like, how do you know that the price is going to go up versus the sports card? Pattern recognition is just like, it's natural to me. It's natural to understand what to do, when to buy, when to sell, what players. And so like with the subjectivity of these made up fictional characters, I just don't that could be the part that like, maybe where I just don't last and I just, either I never get into it or I'm just a scalper for a little while and piss people off and then get out. Yeah, no, that's all fair, but you know, the deeper I go into it, it's, it's, it's, it's a lot of fun in, in some ways because the volatility makes it definitely more interesting. And you know, the only thing I could equate it to sports is you got your superstar players, right? You got your pikachus, you got your charizards. They will always be there. The LeBron and Jordans of, of, of the Pokemon world. But they also have a lot of different cards like that, those characters. And so, you know, and there's, you know, people like shiny cards, full art cards. So you could narrow it. Like I said, my strategy is to simplify things, right? You got a lot of the base cards, but these full art. So like they call it special, they call it special illustration rare cards are the, the hits, so to speak. And yes, they're printed to the moon, some of them, but because they're printed to the moon, I mean some of these special illustration rares, it's, it's like the one thing that's similar to sports cards is like the booster boxes. The boxes, like it'll be the equivalent of hobby boxes or jumbo boxes, cost a lot because everyone's chasing the hits, but it's always, it's always more advantageous to buy singles and it's not as fun, but it's more economical. And, and some of these special illustration rares only are a hundred, couple hundred bucks, you know, 300. And for someone that's not as educated in Pokemon, you might think that's expensive. But I think about the days back when we started collecting again in sports cards where I thought 300 for a raw card. Man, I don't know if I want to spend that. But if I could turn back time now and learn about what I did about grading and everything else, I'm looking at a 4,5 figure card that I could have easily bought for 2,300 raw when I, which I thought was expensive back then. So I kind of see the similar parallel in Pokemon card world where Ross, if it looks like it's in good condition, there's, there's some plays that you could have there. And yeah, you got to be lucky, but you got to be lucky in sports card collecting too. So a lot of similarities for, for me That I see. Okay. Love it. Are you gonna sell your Pikachu Van Gogh? That's up that you're up, like, so much on. I tried, but the. Here's the other thing. I'm glad you brought that question up, because it's not exactly rare because there's a lot of PSA 10s out there. A lot of vendors have it as well. All right? So you got to price it in a way that's attractive to the buyer. So, yes, I. I actually tried to sell it during the sport Card Expo, but I think the sentiment right now in the market is, like, it's got to drop. But at the same time, we've been saying this for the past two years, and all it's been doing has been going up and up. Like, if I. If the sport cards show, the expo happened a month ago, it would be between 2000 and 2500 US but because it happened just recently, it's now averaging just over 3K. So where's the top? No one can predict. So I think that's why people are hesitant to buy certain cards that are just ballooning right now. But certainly I'm looking to see if anyone is willing to buy it at the current market price because it's definitely a nice profit. I see. Okay, so that makes sense. Now this actually gets into back to the sports card show vendor versus walking around the show question that I want to get into more with you, and so I'll start it here. Like, what about selling it on ebay? Because, like, you know, I think a lot of people. I don't know this to be true. I think mo. Like, there's a lot of vendors and card shops that sell on ebay as well as, you know, at. At shows. What I find is that people sort of think about, like, if I'm going to set up as a vendor at a show, I want my best inventory for the show, and I don't want to sell it on ebay. Whereas, like, for me, I'm just like, well, ebay, to me, is the biggest competition to card show vendors. It's the biggest competition to card shops from not only a buying standpoint, but also a selling standpoint. Because, look, if you're gonna, you know, to your point, yeah, all the vendors at the card show have the same card you have, but you know that there's. You know, the value of it. Like, you're coming with the value from ebay comps. Right? So. Right. Why not sell it on ebay? Certainly you can. That's always an option. I guess it comes down to the 13%, you know, the, that ebay takes off the top. And then you got to do that math, math calculation. There's also, as the prices get higher with how comfortable you are shipping, you know, some of these. I've seen a transaction or I've heard of a transaction just this past, at this past expo, someone was saying how they put a. I don't even know what the Pokemon card was, but they put it down, grabbed some cash, literally $50,000 worth, just bills. And then the guy gave him $50 back in change. Like, okay, that's the cost of that one card. So it's the transaction that's like these are the amounts that we're dealing with. So yeah, I guess for higher end cards, hiring cards and quote, higher value cards, if there's a comfort level just to do it in person. So that's, that's, that's a factor as well. So. But yeah, I mean you can always consign it if you feel safer that way. There's a lot of reputable consigners out there. But again, I guess you got to do the math in terms of the fees that are involved. And, and so yeah, I think ebay is, is always, is always an option and I think it'll be more of an option down the line as things get a little bit more secure, you know. So I think that's legitimate. Sure. And, and that's a, I think there's a lot of people that don't have experience selling high value cards on ebay or the experience that they have had in the past hasn't given them the confidence to sell that kind of a card. So that makes sense. Like when I do the math though, like you know, you'd be, you'd be. If you sold it for 3,083% or 87% of 3,000 is 26,10. You could pay and like the proverbial you, if you have this card out there and you're listening, you could pay like most likely it's going to be US$70 ish to ship to like fully insure it shipped to the authenticator. The problem that Clark might have and Jeremy might have and other people is that they live in Canada. And so when you. Right now ebay has this, this problem unfortunately, where non US sellers don't always have the first of all, they don't always have the authenticity guarantee check box, which I think that if I were ebay, like I know ebay employees personally that live in Canada, their email address is eBay CA. So I don't understand why there's that issue. Yeah, so ebay needs to fix the issue of not having the blue authenticity guarantee check just because you're in Canada. Like that's stupid, right? That is stupid. The other side is that like, you know, I'm talking about insuring it through usps. And Clark, obviously, you know, can't ship United States Postal Service from, from the Toronto area to, to a U.S. but eBay does have international shipping, so that shouldn't, you know, you should be able to at least ensure your shipping internationally. Clark, do you have just real quick before we get back to the card show thing. Sorry, I'm sidetracking this. Do you have experience selling on ebay to like U.S. seller, U.S. buyers? And is the international shipping thing pretty easy? Yeah, no, I mean it is easy. We have not just through ebay, but there's third party businesses that in Canada that you could drop off. Like I have one 10 minutes from my place and the. They cater to businesses that do primarily business in the States. So actually that's me. Like if I do sell my cards, 95 of the people that buy my cards on ebay are from the US Just the market's just way bigger there. So I'll go to a place called Chitchats that that will take it across the border and then you get into the USPS USPS system as well so that they do it for a small nominal fee. It's getting a little more complicated now with the whole terror situation. It's always up changing. You know, that's, that's politics. We don't have to get into it, but, but yeah, there's, you know, they're, there's additional fees to. Because they need to use a broker to get it through. There's been a couple times where it's been delayed, but little headaches, I guess in the grand scheme of things. But for some people, it might be enough for them to not do it online. Not to even worry about that. And going back to the question of why sell it or at a card show. Yeah, it's just the convenience of doing it right away and not worrying about those little headaches of shipping internationally here. All right, now's a great time to quickly hit pause on this episode so that I can tell you about a solution to all the issues that you guys have been having with your PSA vault. We've heard some horror stories from Lefty and from a lot of our premium members who use the PSA vault. Many of them have said, look, PSA has lost my cards. They're not offering me good solutions. Their customer service doesn't get back to me for months. I can't see the cards that are in my vault, so I can't list them. When I list them, there's a glitch in the listing. There's all these nightmarish stories that keep coming in from the PSA vault. We have a solution. It is our end to end solution for premium members@noallseason.com what do I mean? This is not only a great solution for domestic people in the United States of America, but for people who live abroad as well and want to do business from other countries with American ebay buyers and sellers. Okay? All you need to do is instead of using the PSA vault, you can drop ship your cards to no offseason.com you can use our shipping address with our grading services as your address in whatever marketplace that you're buying your cards from. Whether it's ebay, it's my slabs, whether it's Facebook, whether it's Instagram, whether it's X, whether it's discord channels, wherever you buy your cards cards, you can use our shipping address as your shipping address. All you need to do is include your name on the name line with our address and we will receive your cards for you. We will grade them at the grading company of your choice. When we get them back, we will consign them for you in a strategic way, way more strategic than any other consigner out there. So consider nooffseason.com's end to end solution. This is a great solution to for any of you that are struggling using the PSA vault due to their customer service, due to their technology glitches, whatever it may be, due to the fact that they've lost your cards, which has happened a lot. So consider using our nooffseason.com solution for this. I think it's best for people who live abroad. Okay? Because these people want to do business with American ebay accounts. They want to buy from American sellers, they want to list their cards, they want to to American sellers. Because for many, many sports, the market is stronger in the United States of America, helping out the international market through our end to end solutions and the domestic market, the United States of America residents who are just simply struggling with the PSA vault. Consider the end to end solutions@nooffseason.com all right, let's get back to this episode of the Sports Card Strategy Show. Okay, so back to the card Show. What were your biggest frustrations? Set up as a vendor at the Toronto Sports Card Expo. Yeah, and I mean I kind of said this before, it's all about inventory, right? So being a primarily a hockey card show and there's other, I'm not, I don't want to say 100 cards are all hockey, but there is predominantly hockey. If you have primarily baseball, it could work in your factor, it could work against it. Like not a lot of people are looking for baseball or as many as you would expect if the show was in the States. But at the same time there will be baseball card collectors out up in Canada and if yours is one of the few, then they will come to you. So it could work in for or against you depending on if they are able to find you. And yeah, I think, I think you need to have enough inventory as well too. Like, I don't, I'm, I'm primarily a content creator and I was telling my booth mate that I don't know if I would set up if, if I was just a seller, like if I was this pure, you know, vendor and not a content creator like it, it was worthwhile for me to promote my podcast while I was there. I'm actually about three or four visitors from the States came to buy to just say hi to us because they listen to our podcast. That's awesome. That's amazing experience just talking to them and you know, we're, we start off the show collector, we like. I was happy to talk to them for five, 10 minutes, just about whatever. And you know, I'm, I'm sure in the corner of my eye I could see someone interested in the cart but you know, I'm not there primarily to make a sale. So I was more glad to meet with fellow podcast listeners. So that made it worth my while. But back to the question of, you know, I could see if you're just a seller and you didn't have the right cards at the show, you would be under water. Like it's, it's a thousand bucks Canadian to set up at the sport car. Yeah, that's not cheap. It's not cheap. And, and you know, I joked that for me, my strategy because I didn't have that many cards, but I had a few higher end cards including Pokemon cards and I sold one for almost 2, 000 US or Canadian. So I was able to make profit. But my strategy was like, yeah, it's like selling a car. You just got to sell one or two and, and then you're good. Where whereas Other people's strategies, like selling all these $50, $40 cards in volume. But that was, you know, there's risk either way. Like, you have to carry all that inventory. I didn't have that much to carry, but I gotta hope that I sell one or two of these bigger cards to make it worth my while. And I was lucky to at least sell one of my pikachus for. For that much. That's great. Yeah. I think a lot of what you said resonates with me because, like, I. I have set up at card shows and I have promoted the sports card strategy show. And no offseason.com, i've had, like, banners and T shirts and some giveaway items like little drawstring backpacks. I've been like, you know, stickers with, you know, to promote the podcast and to talk to. To let new people that have never heard of the sports card strategy show know about it. And. And what I like about that is, like, everyone is always, like, receptive to that. They're always pretty darn excited. Oh, cool. I'll check that out. That's great. And. And that sort of thing. And then to your point, like, my favorite thing is when listeners come up and they're like, oh, I recognize your voice. Just dropping my kids off at school listening to, you know, stuff like that. That makes my. Like, that obviously is like this unanticipated bonus that kind of keeps me going, you know, like, when I. When I'm able to have those kinds of conversations with people and I do like you, I kind of forget that I'm set up as a vendor and I'm. Now I'm just talking about the show and about, you know, asking people about their lives and things like that, because they're invested in what I'm doing. So I love that. But I agree with you. It's like, if you take a look. And so it does depend on your strategy, and I think it depends on your strategy from a couple different aspects. A, what type of person are you? I'm the type of person that I value efficiency, I value productivity. And so when you. When you look at the fact that when you set up at a card show and you pay, you know, what would it be? 6 or 700 US dollars or a thousand Canadian or whatever that is, That's a lot of money, first of all, to invest in that. So now if you. If you value efficiency and productivity, you're investing a lot of money, but then you're also investing a lot of time. This is like the Nashville card show that I talked about, the Toronto Sports Card Expo that you're talking about, it's what, two, three day shows. So if you're going to spend that much money now you're the type of person that I am that I'm describing. You're going to be there for all those days to maximize the money that you're spending. So, but now you're, you're also investing more time because you're there for multiple days. So now if you're sitting there for hours at your table because you can't get up, you can't, I mean, unless you have a friend or you know, a part, a business partner, you can't leave your table. So you're sitting there for the entire day. And a lot of the time, even though the show is packed and like the, the mar, like the overall sports card market and TCG market is doing well, like you're, you're at a place where things are happening. The reality is like, even at a packed show, like you're not getting transactions per hour, you might get transactions per day. Right. And so that is when you go back to what, what I value. That is super inefficient. It is super unproductive. So, so that is why I stopped setting up at CAR as a vendor at card shows because I don't like, I, I would get upset at the output, the return on my time and my money. Not necessarily the return on, I don't really, I actually don't really care about the return on the money. I wasn't like, I'm okay paying whatever it is to set up at the show, but to your point, it's more about promoting the. Yeah, yeah. Because that's the cost of promoting the business. Yeah. I'm more upset at the return on the investment of my time sitting there the entire time. Yeah. When I could be. So now let me ask you this because my best card show experiences set up as a vendor has actually been buying cards. Right. Did you, how did you find that? Did you, were you able to do that at all? Yeah. No, that's amazing insight what you just mentioned. And, and I think I'm glad you brought up this question too because I'm, I was a rookie, so I made a lot of mistakes too, you know, and my, the two buddies that are also co hosts with me on the pod, they're more experienced at vending and they both said to your point, the buying is the, is the more fun because they come to you and a lot of people come to you say like hey, are you interested in cards? And you're like, okay, there could be potential deals, you know, that are just, you know. So, yeah, I think I didn't take advantage of that because I was more like my brain was like, promoting the pod but also trying to sell some of my cards. And I'm like, what's the third thing? Oh, buying. I. You know, and like, not enough people are coming to me with cards. I really. And I think it's. It's also my personality, like, or in kind of full circle, kind of what kind of collector I am. I'm very specific about the cards that I like, you know, so I'm like, it doesn't fall into any of my pillars, so I'm passing on a lot of them. Totally. I'm happy to look at every card. You know, if someone says, like, are you buying? I'm like, yeah, let me take a look. Happy to do that. But because I have more simplified, narrowed focus, I end up not buying. Whereas some of my friends, they see. The more they see it more broadly, and they're like, okay, I could grade this. Probably flip it at the next card show or on ebay. And they're more open to it. So it looked like they were having a lot more fun than I was in terms of that front, in terms of buying. And I'm like, oh, a lot of people are going to them for. And my friend was into wrestling cards. That was his niche. And like, we're talking about sports cards being niche. Wrestling cards is even more niche. But that community is growing too, so it's kind of. It was kind of cool to witness, like, oh, wow, these guys are hardcore about WWE cards and, you know, a lot of transacting going on. And. And then he was joking, like, I gotta stop buying, right? Because he was just like, spending more. But then, you know, at the same time, he was having fun. And he could also see the potential flipping it later on too. So, yes, buying. I'm gonna. If I set up at the next one, I'm gonna try to be more intentional about buying, you know, cards that I like or I find interest in because. Yes. And on this, going back to the selling part, one thing as a vendor, you know, it can't all be this. But you're like dollar or two dollar or five dollar cards. Much easier to get rid of as a vendor than like, going around like, hey, do you want my. Do you want to look at my $1, $2 cards? And a lot of the vendors will be not interested. I wouldn't Be interested in collecting more lower end cards. But my first day I put them in dollar boxes and this is where I talk about changing up my strategy. And I didn't have enough traffic for people to kind of rifle through them. So I just, I had like a corner spot, so it was nice. And on one side of the table I just laid out all my dollar cards and just covered the whole table and sleeves. And I sold a bunch that way that, you know, people just walking by just stopped and like, oh, and most of them were Blue Jays because I was catering to the hometown market and they're just like, yeah, I'll take four or five of these and add it up over time. So, you know, you got to take advantage of where you see, you know, the advantages, where the advantages exist as a vendor. So that's another thing in terms of selling that was easier to do, set up rather than going around. But without. If I only had the higher end cards, I, I think I'd probably be more interested in just walking around and seeing, yes, which booths would like those higher end cards. So different strategies. Depends what kind of cards you have. I think all that all plays into it. Yeah, I think you just nailed it. Like, I, I, it, it totally depends on what cards you have. So like, and also, like, how do you get your inventory? Like, do you. So I think part of the reason why setting up as a vendor stopped being interesting to me is because I was buying all my cards off of ebay, right. And so, so, and they're more higher end. So inherently I'm leaving comps and then I'm taking them to card shows. And then, and at card shows, people want to pay 80, 85% of the comps. So unless it was a raw to grade win, unless it was like a big raw to grade win, then I was just gonna lose money as a vendor at every card show. But to your point, if you, if you get your inventory maybe a different way, like maybe you're, maybe you're doing multiple things. You're not just buying singles off of ebay like I do, but you're doing multiple things where your strategy is to like, rip a little bit of wax, go to some, go to some like, flea market things, go to some card shows and try to get value box stuff and then, or trade some stuff and all that. And then, and then come, come as a vendor and be like, okay, here's a value box, here's some singles from some stuff that I ripped that it's low end. And then here's some High end stuff then and, and have a strategy of like I'm going to. What I would do. That's actually what I would do in the future. If I ever set up as a vendor. I would have, I would have stuff that I've acquired over time for that specific card show. I'd have some, some super low end, some value and a little bit of high end. But my goal would be the only high end I bring are going to be raw to grade wins. And then because I'm up on all of that stuff. So I can, if someone makes an offer that's right around comps, I can accept it and I'll making money. And then, And I don't even really have. I just have to know what the comps are. I don't even really have to know what I'm into it for because that's just like a whole other element. It just kind of sucks for the whole experience. So like. But what I would do specifically is I would make like buying probably 50% of what I came to the show to do and I would buy stuff that I could just put right back in my showcase and mark up a little bit. But I think to your. I'm so much like you that it's scary. Like when I look at stuff as a vendor at a card show, I am disinterested in the 99 point. I'm actually repulsed by it. It makes me want to leave because it's that bad. But then to your point, like, yeah, I look over at like a good example is like Joe Mosaic Joe from, you know, a good, good friend of mine. Like, he's actually the one who is a big fan. He was a big fan of Cars to the Moon and he's actually a big reason why you and I are friends. So like, I would look over at Joe and he's like having a blast because he's just buying whatever because he knows that it's going to sell. And I'm like, that is so disgusting. I don't even want to look at it. Can't even believe you bought that. But he's so happy because he's like, I just made like $400. I'm like, all right, well, you're smarter than I am. That's hilarious. Yeah, totally true. Know exactly what you're talking about. But to your point about like having a few high end cards, that worked out for me too. Like next time I come the first day, I didn't bring out a couple of the high end cards because I'm like Do I really want to sell it? Like my Mike Trout, which we'll talk about in a sec. But my Luka Doncic, the blue contenders number to 99. Yeah, I remember that. Doubled in price. So the second day, I brought all of them, even my high end Pikachu. Like, there's. I have a. I have a Pikachu card that's about 7,000 Canadian right now, and I'm in it for, like, under a thousand. Isn't your wife just, like, sorry, I do not know your wife. Yeah. Your partner. I don't even know if you're married. I know you have kids. Yes. Okay, so. So isn't your wife, like, bro, what are we doing with the 7,000? Like, when are we getting. Yeah. For the bathroom. Like, we're actually looking for a new car. So it's a perfect time where she's like, you got to sell something, you know? So I sold. Like I said, I sold one of my Pikachu. So that's a. Goes towards the down payment. But, yes, she's asking more if I sold anything, then she's never asked me if I bought anything, that's for sure. Okay. That's all my wife is, too. I mean, she's supportive, but she's like, hey, so what'd you sell? Yeah, exactly. I think a lot of our spouses are like, actually, my wife's favorite line is, like, she doesn't even realize. But I'll be like, man, I just sold, like, sold this Lebron James card for, like, 3, 500 on eBay today. And she's like, oh, great. Well, what'd you pay for it? What's the net profit? I'm laughing because I. I hear that question a lot as well, from. From my wife. But. But yes, I was saying in terms of high end cards, just bringing it. I found it to be a very effective magnet. People stop on their tracks. And then even a couple of them joked, like, because I have, like, a lot of 10, 20 cards in the case, because that's how I had to fill it out. And then I got my Trout and Luca and my Bobby with super fractured, the three of them. And then they're like, okay, it's more the same. And then they see those high. And they're like, whoa, where did this come from? It's like. It's like you got, like a huge hammer and amongst, like, this. Raw. All raw, too. And, like, the. The lower end one. So, like, wow. Okay. And then flex in the middle of the showcase. Exactly. Starts a conversation. And yeah. Yeah, for sure. That's funny though, because the people are kind of sitting there at that Bobby Witt going, interesting. All right, so I thought of you the other day. Lefty and I were, were talking about Mike Trout on the sports card strategy show. And, and you know, Lefty's a big baseball guy. So he, he kind of had this trivia question for me. Like, what, what? This was like maybe a month ago. So he's like, what player am I looking at that? You know, we don't really, we haven't really talked about him, but he's like a bit. He's been a big deal. I'm like, okay. And so I went through my. And I got Trout on my fifth guess, which I was very happy. I was very happy with because I'm not. I know enough about baseball to participate in buying and selling baseball cards, but I don't. But I'm not. Like, baseball is like my third behind football and basketball. So my guesses were like, Ellie de la Cruz, Vlad Acuna. I'm not even going to be able to remember who my other guess was, but I think it was pretty good. And then Trout was my fifth guess. And left. He was like, yes, can't believe you got Trout. And then I was immediately like, okay, Clark has like collected Trout for a while. Like you've, he's been a guy that you've been on for a long time. You have at least one massive Mike Trout card, right? Yeah, yeah. So I have the 2009 Bowman Chrome draft. The. The first Bowman prospect or rookie auto refractor number to 500. And yeah, you know, when I got back into the hobby, Mike Trout was a guy. If you've played fantasy baseball, Mike Trout was your guy. Multi tool. Five tool guy. So the 2009 Bowman Chrome, I actually had the base to start off with. People who listen to the pod will be very familiar with the story where I bought the BGS 910 auto of the base 2009 Bowman Chrome rookie auto. And I cracked it out and I got it submitted to PSA, came back a PSA9 which bumped up its value from VGS9. And I sold that on ebay. And with that money I reinvested into what I have now, which is the Bowman Chrome refractor. And that's number to 500 in a BGS 9.5. And when I bought it, the market was just tanking on Mike truck because he just couldn't stay healthy, I think. I bought it 2, 3 years ago and I got it for 5k US like right on 5000. And I think the last sale it does if you follow baseball. You know Mike Trout's having a season, looks like he's staying healthy. Double digit home runs already and the last cell of the same grade. True gem though went for 12k US. So it went from 5k my initial investment to 12k. So yeah, I brought it to the show seeing if anyone was willing to pay comps because I think this was a question you're asked, gonna ask if I'm willing to sell. I'm willing to sell at that profit by 2x like I was. Everyone's asking like why don't you just cut your losses? Because it was a 5k and then it dipped to 494 8. I'm like trending the wrong way but I felt like I just got a good deal for it. Considering that he's going to be a Hall of Famer. Like he's already have, he already has the numbers. Even if he just has an injury riddled career for the rest of his years, he's all he's going to make it to the hall of Fame. So. But I was a believer. I'm like he just needs one really good season and I had to wait two and a half years for it. And knock on wood, this is the year that he stays completely healthy. But yeah, it's at the point where you're already seeing his numbers. Well for me more than 2x in value. So at that price point, I'm willing to sell for that. Although I love Mike Trout. I mean that's phenomenal. So like is this the auto? This is the auto. I can show you. So is this the card that. Yes. Yeah. Okay. So using our card analyzer and predictor tool@nooffseason.com it's prices things out first. And so I found the sale that Clark was referring to, not, not his, his sale but the same card that he has. Yes, sold for 12000 US and that is sold. It sold on April 25th. And so I think that that if you go back and look at like maybe you know, Mike Trout's season that he's having, that that is a was a good smart selling marker for that person to to list that card. So yeah. So you are. So do you have this list, do you have yours listed on ebay or are you just selling saying you would sell it? Do you have it listed anywhere online or are you just look like saying that you would sell it at a card show for, for this price? Yeah, I don't have a list online. But at that price point, I. I'd be willing to sell. Yeah. At a card show. And. And maybe one of the reasons why it's like, I don't mind holding on to it a little bit longer. It's kind of fun to see how his season plays out, so I'm not in a hurry to rush and sell it. Maybe it'll go up even higher. Like, it's. It's kind of wild to see after. After seeing his value of just flatline for years, finally seeing this bump is. It's kind of fun. And. And, you know, it's. It's. It makes for good content because everyone knows I've been a trope believer for years. I'm like, finally, my trout. That's true. It is good. It is good content. And, like, it's great content because of, you know, it's. It's better content than 99.9 of the content out there where people are, you know, not. Not telling the story behind, like, this is. This is what I bought. Like, the story that you just told. Right. Where it's like. And. And giving some of the details around and that. That's what you can do on a podcast, where you can, like, get into details about. Sure. What you would do, what you wouldn't do. And it's super interesting. So wanted to ask you about that. If it were me, I would at least have it listed on ebay just to, like, maybe field some offers. You could always, you know, you could always list it at higher than 12k. That's what I would encourage you to do. I don't know, but, like, put it listed at 15k, you know, and then just field off. You'd be like, hey, guys, I got an offer. What should I do that's more content? That's what I would do. That's what I tell everybody@nooffseason.com to do is, like, when you have a card like that and it's gone up that much in value. Silly not to list it. Clark, at least, you know, I. I would agree with you most of the time, but for me, I'm not even thinking the end of season. I'm thinking I'm going to national. So I don't know if you're going to national this year. Yes. I'll meet you there, because I'll be there as well. But you're gonna have it with you at the national. I'm gonna bring it if I still. Yeah, exactly. So, okay. That'll be fun. And I did. I took a page out of yearbook. Actually, I got a media pass. Nice. Yes. So the last like four years I've paid for VIP stuff and then I'll, I'll run into Clark at these shows and he's got a media pass. I'm like, damn it, we're doing the same thing. You could definitely get one too. If I can get one. So. So yeah, I have my media pass. I'm ready to go too. I mean, I know like, I know that everybody likes you more than they like me. I figured I would at least try to get a media pass and they, they oblige. So. That's all right, Clark. I gotta pause real quick and talk about what no Offseason.com members are talking about. So this is a cool one. It's long, but I'm gonna go through it. Steve B. Says, Paul, love everything you do, man. Your content and advice has helped me go from a degenerate breaker to a shrewd card investor. Now my wife and daughter and I are even doing even doing ebay reselling with their own collectibles after seeing the wins I have been having with your proven strategies@noallseason.com now, in addition to my own ebay shop where I'm ditching all that useless wax I accrued wasting money break buying into breaks. We now run a family business. My wife is a doctor of physical therapy who also has type 1 diabetes. She was injured about 10 years ago on the job and hasn't been able to return to work. Work which has made life hard for her as she felt lost. Last month for her 50th birth birthday, I registered our store for an LLC, got us a federal employer identification number and all the other licenses to make us a full fledged legal company. Making her the president of the LLC. Now for the first time in 10 years after seeing my success, she feels like there is hope for her to have something other than being a stay at home mom for her. No, she's not just selling sports cards, but she's flipping all kinds of other collectibles she finds. In fact, she just made her first sale of two vases she got for free from some curb alert on Facebook. That's pretty cool. She even incorporated our 13 year old daughter into the mix who is now also wanting to use nooffseason.com strategies on her TCG cards and manga she has collected. Now our daughter is learning how to use data to source and price items for a profit. Using no offseason.com strategies we have found TCG cards that she that she had. That will be big wins for her when they come back from grading. Just wanted to let you know that you and Lefty have had an impact that surpasses just sports cards. Had I not found no offseason.com I would still be stupidly trying to make more money buying the wrong cards at the wrong time for the wrong price instead of being more methodical and relying on stats. So thanks, man. That's a long one from Steve B. Clark. But joining no offseason.com, which you can all do, go to no offseason.com, join that wait list, get in on the next drop. You can be like Steve B. So Clark, that, that's a pretty good one, man. What do you think? Testimonial. Great testimonial. Love that, Love that. So, Clark, I got to get a couple more of those reads in, so I got a couple more questions to ask you. Grading experiences that you think are interesting. Grading experiences. What do you mean by that exactly? Recently or in the past, have there been any experiences with sports card grading that have caught your attention? Good, bad, or just the state of grading right now like this, like, how much grading are you doing? How much grading are people around you doing? What factors are they considering in terms of like turnaround time and all that stuff? Yeah, I was going to just mention turnaround times is a big factor now. Right. It just feels like we're kind of back into that covet era where you submit and then you kind of forget which cards you submitted because it's been so long. In fact, just the other day I submitted a couple Pokemon cards for a friend of mine and, and then I just got the alert that is ready to be picked up. I go through a store here in, in the Toronto area and then they bulk submit it and, and then honestly, I have like about three or four submissions and I couldn't remember which cards went out. And so when I looked like, oh, that's right, I got, I got these for these guys. So I think turnaround times is a big thing. You know, I, I'm. And it's one of those things in terms of if you're going to consider grading, like, yeah, you have to think about it a little bit more. Right? Like what, what do you think the value is going to be five or six months down the line? You know, for me, I'm thinking of. Okay, if I'm going to set up at the November show, I should think about set grading. Some of my cards I am interested in grading now, so I get them in the late summer and then they'll be ready for the November show. So. Yeah, and, and I think with the rise of tcg, if you look at the PSA numbers especially I don't know if you've seen gemrate.com but the majority of cards being sent in are TCG cards, which makes sense why you're waiting five, six months even to get these cards back. And, and yeah, values obviously, even for Pokemon cards change a lot within five, six months. So you have to consider those factors too. And, and you know, one thing I'll say, at the Sport Card Expo, Beckett was there and they were doing on site submissions and they were packed. And I don't know if it's because PSA took over. You know, we're all, we're always joking that Beckett needs to step up, but ever since, it seems ever since PSA took over, there's, there's a longer lineup. Despite the fact, I don't know if you know this, but the cost of grading Beckett, they doubled in like literally went from 30, 35 bucks to 65, 70 bucks to get some of your Beckett cards graded. And people are willing to pay people like obviously with the lineups there. And our booth was right by Beckett so we could see for ourselves how busy it was throughout the 3, 4 days at the show. But that was interesting to see. Like, what, what are, what's Beckett doing now that they're under psa? And yeah, I wonder if anything else is going to change because psa, famously known for their upcharges, Beckett's not there yet. But is that coming? Is that a kind of a reality that we just need to prepare for in the next several months or in, in one year. So all these questions are, are out there now in terms of, yeah, if you're, especially if you're going to consider grading with Beckett. That's a good point. I didn't think about the, the up charges for Beckett because collectors has, you know, is it has acquired. I think what I've been, what I've been just absolutely pounding on the sports card strategy show is Beckett needs a better integrated website experience with their email alerts. I've been grading with Beckett a lot. No offseason.com members can grade. One of the great offerings that no offseason.com has is like you, any of our members, like regardless of where they are in the world. So this, this might even be handy for, you know, Canadian listeners. It is handy for Canadian listeners, but like you can use our plays by just drop shipping us your Cards, and then I send them to grading. So even if you have, like, and we have a card analyzer and predictor tool, right? So let's say you go buy five, 2020 Bobby Witt Jr. Non auto refractor, Bowman Chrome firsts, right? And you go. You buy five of them, and you run them through our card analyzer and predictor tool. And it says two of them might GEM at Beckett and the other three might gem at psa. You could send us all five. We'll send the two to Beckett, the three to psa, all that stuff, right? So then if you want, we'll consign them for you or we'll ship them back to you. But what I've noticed is that, like. So all that is to say I've graded a lot with Beckett. And so when you get. The worst thing is when you get, like, you'll get an email alert and it'll be like, grading complete, and it'll have, like, your submission number on it. Well, you. There's no. There's a. There's nothing. There's no button to click that will then take you to the grading results. You have to, like, manually copy the submission number over, log into your Beckett account. Right. Another browser tab, and try to, like, find it. And then. Oh, by the way, just because you got the grading complete message means. Does not mean that your grades are ready for you to see. Whereas, like, psa, PSA will send you your grades already, and then you can click the button and it takes you over, and they have the app and everything. So I've been. I've been hoping that those kinds of improvements, like, let's start with simply being able to have a button where you can. The worst thing, Clark, is I had to change my credit card on file with Beckett, so I changed my default payment method to the new credit card. But for any grading order that I had previous previously submitted to the. The old credit card, I would get an automated message from Beckett that would say, update your payment method for this order. But then when I would click that button to update the payment method for the order, it would take me nowhere. So then I would have to manually go find a form on beckett.com to let them know about it. I mean, it's just. It's just a mess. Yeah. Yeah. Super annoying. All right. Yeah. Remember that no offseason.com is the only place on the planet with sports card rankings updated every Friday, sorted by the ROI percentage you're likely to make in the future. Check out no offseason.com and join the waitlist to get on the next drop. Now, Clark can cut this stuff out if he wants when it airs on Cards to the mo. Or you could be a good old buddy, old pal and just leave it in there for his listeners to to hear. It's up to you, Clark. Last question of the day. Any hobby news that's caught, caught your eye recently that you want to talk about? Because Sports Card strategy show, we don't really, we don't typically talk about hobby news unless we see something that, yeah, comes across the feed that we really have like a strong opinion on. But I know that you're, you're more in tune, I think you're more in tune with the hobby news than I am. So I'm continuing to talk so that you can think about your answer. But what do you. No, no, I already got one. Because I mean, our podcast, like you're saying, is print out. You know, we have a section called Hobby Headlines every week. So we're always up to date on the hobby news. And the one recent one we had a long discussion on, and I'm actually curious to see what you think or if you have any ideas for it. Is that the Tops Chrome Football release, there was a lot of hoopla on it because it sold out quickly. I tried to get on the eql, couldn't get any inventory of the, the hobby boxes. I got bought it out. But you know, you look at the prices on the secondary market, it's insane. You know, like you can't get a hobby box for a decent price. And that's where the market is. I know that. But the bigger question is how do you make if more fair for people that want to buy a hobby box of Tops Chrome Football or new release? You know, is there any way to make it more equitable or is this just the reality of where we are in the hobby? And this is, you know, you got to be lucky. You got to be lucky to beat the bots. You got to be lucky to be number one in the line for eql, you know, or do we just accept it that this is, you know, like. And I think why it was a long discussion is that, you know, there are a lot of people you can look on social media that were very upset that they couldn't get a box of Tops Chrome Football unless they were willing to pay a thousand bucks for, for a hobby box. And you know, one of my co hosts said, like, maybe you save a bit of the inventory for collectors and not for the stores or breakers. Maybe you allocate a different amount for them. But then you know, there's, for every idea there's always like how do you get around X, Y and Z? You know, like you stores can find get their employees to buy as much inventory as they want. So you know, there's this cat and mouse game involved as well. But I'm wondering if you have any ideas off the top of your head in terms of resolving this or are you kind of resigned to. This is where we are popular products. You gotta be lucky or expect to pay through the nose for the product. Yeah, I think it's a good, it's a good topic. I, I, I did try to get in on the, the EQL drop as well for the pre order of that product and I did not, I was not able to get it. I did buy a Mega Box and a value, I believe a value box and a mega box. And so the re. The reason why I tried to get the hobby box is to flip it. Flip it, don't rip it. That's my thing. I know you're probably rip it. You're probably ripping it for content. For content. Yeah. Fair enough. Yeah. Klet's Clark strategy. I like it. My strategy is, is, is flip it, don't rip it. But I was, you know, and I would be right as well because of the prices that you're talking about. Had I got one, I would have made some, some good profit off of that. I think. Let's see. I think that the, the fact that anyone can get a mega or a value in a way takes care of collector like the, the kids, the collectors like that whole like. Right. We've already kind of gone through some of the hobby Personas in this show and like I safe to assume that most people listening are understand, you know, kind of what we're dealing with here and probably have a, their own hot take on this as well. My thing is I, I think I, I, if I were tops, if I were Topps fanatics or you know, Panini in the past and I'm looking at the prices on the secondary market and I'm thinking, wow, like good for us that we're making a pro. That we're part of making a product that sells for that much on the secondary market. But also like where's that for us? Like how do we get, I would be thinking how do we get the most out of each product without like squeezing the, the customer out? And so I think it's fair to try to provide something for everyone where and I think that, I guess I feel like that's what they're trying to do by saying like, okay, you can go. You get in the EQL drop for these, the cases and the hobby boxes and the, the jumbo hobbies or whatever, the eql and then you've got the other skus that you can just go buy whatever you want. So I feel like that's what they're trying to do. If I were them, I might be doing more of like a. Where Josh Luber and. And what was a zero cool drop where you would like go. It was a super complicated but kind of fun where you would like go and you would put in your own highest bid. And then I think what they did was like, he called it like some kind of reverse Dutch auction or something. Yeah. Remember that? Yes. Yeah. Okay. I'm not saying that that's the best idea, but I think that the EQL solution actually is a pretty good solution because it allows everybody for I think an hour or a two hour block, a certain block of time that's manageable for people in the world old to get online and try to get in the drop. It doesn't favor people who can like drop everything they're doing at 12 noon Eastern time to like be the first to do it. I think that's unfair. So I think, I think it gives everybody who's willing to pay the price an opportunity to get in the drop for like an hour. Then it does the randomization and then if you. You win the ability to do it. So I actually kind of like it. I think, I think it works. I think that maybe there could be something where I would love. One thing you said that I'm pro is like, definitely don't let any breakers have any of it. Definitely don't do that. Like, just don't let any, Anyone breaking. Okay. Have any of it. Yeah. And just only let it go to people that are. Well, I guess, I guess you couldn't do that because now all the hobby shops break as well. So I guess. Exactly. Never mind. No button on my last comment. No, I love that you brought that up though, because there's always these questions that come up even as we talk about it and discuss like, oh, but what about this? Or what about that? You know, and, and that's kind of how we. That episode in particular, it's kind of like today's episode. It just kind of went on for a while because we're like trying to brainstorm ways and, and I like your idea of EQ like, the question about eql. There's, you know, for people that are upset about equal, they obviously think, oh, the bots are getting all of them. But, you know, there's. We just don't know what the truth is. Maybe one of the solutions, just greater transparency on how everything works. That's a solution. And there was one offer where if you want to open for collectors, for hobby shop owners, there was an idea that to prevent flippers or, like, everyone trying to flip the box, you would have to, like, what they do in Japan for Pokemon boxes. They actually rip the seal off. So is that a solution? Yeah. So there's ideas out there pro that I'm pro that even though I'm a flipper, like, because if, again, if I were the manufacturer, like, I would maybe do that. But what I don't understand real quick, Clark, is like, why do they do the pre order with the EQL but then also do the regular eql? To me, that was. That was the most confusing thing of the whole thing is like, yeah, why. Why do you even have a pre order? Like, you're literally just doing, okay, thanks. I'm glad I'm not just all. All I knew was I was confused, but I'm like, okay, I'm gonna try it for a second time, I guess. Okay. But I will say this before we let you go. And by the way, if you like the content on this show and want more, go premium@nooffseason.com now to get unlimited advice answered on our Friday podcast for premium members called the Premium Pod. But I will. I will say this clerk Kim is a legend for me. And the reason why is because he's the only person that I know that's ever been to Fanatics Fest and won the ability to buy the Cactus Jack tops Chrome Box through the EQL with a media pass. Like, that is gangster. Because everyone. Everyone else at the last Fanatics Fest, yeah, Bought the VIP package, and then they won. And I literally went around talking to people like, did you buy the VIP package? Yes. Did you win the EQL to buy the Cactus Jack? Yes. And then I'm like, clark, you have a media pass, and you got in the EQL and bought the Cactus Jack. So, I mean, you. You saved, like, $400. Yeah. I can't remember how I did it or if I got a friend because I came with a friend too. So maybe that's. Yeah. So I can't remember how it happened, but I'm pretty sure that you. You didn't break any rules. Like you just, you got in the EQL drop for Fanatics Fest because you were attending. Yes. But you attended with the media pass. So I mean it's just amazing. Like I think that you're a legend. So. Clark, thanks to Clark Kim of five Card Guys and Cars to the Moon for being on the sports card strategy show today. Clark, any shout outs you want to give or any, any last thoughts? No, it's funny, I did a whole episode of shout outs on my last, just my recent podcast episode for all the people that did drop by to the Expo from the States. One came from the Dominican Republic. That was awesome. And a lot of the local guys in Canada showed up. So just generally speaking, just shout out to, you know, all the, all the people that tune in, including listeners of Paul, you know, just his podcast. You know, we appreciate, I'm sure we could, I could speak on both of us, but sometimes when you do these recordings, you almost forget that there are a lot of people that do listen to it out there. Well, on their commute or while they're mowing their lawn with which are two things that I heard people say to me. So we're glad to share in your life in that small way. But I'm always looking to shout out all our listeners. So, so yeah, kudos to them. Absolutely. Great point. We're just, we're just having fun talking about the hobby and the, and but there's, it's for all of you. Clark. Okay. Are you gonna be at, are you going to Fanatics Fest? I know we talked about, we're going to be at the national together. Are you going to go to Fanatics Fest? So I'm, I'm gonna skip, most likely skip Fanatics Fest this year. There's a lot going on that we got. I'm not sure if you're aware, I think the Dallas card shows going on that week. Fanatics Fest moved to mid July because of the World cup. So the World cup finals are going on as well. And I believe the west coast card show is that weekend as well. And I might actually go to the west coast card show in California. Okay. So I'm, I think I'm skipping Fanatics for this year just because it's going to be busy and chaotic. But I always say this, if you live in the New York area, it's a no brainer. You got to go to Fanatics Fest. Like, yeah, they're already in that area, but if you're flying in hotels, might be double the price Now So that's also something to consider. But yeah, I'll be at the national for sure and most likely the west coast card show. Love that. So you may or may not have the trout. I am not going to Fanatics Festival mainly because of the cost like you said. It's just, it's two hotels are too expensive this year. The week it's like, it's like a couple weeks before the national. It's just not. And so what I'm gonna do, and maybe we could do, maybe we could collab on this, I'm gonna have a show at some point in July where I spend the money that I would have spent traveling to and attending fest on ebay, buying, bidding on ebay. So I love that idea. Yeah. Nice. All right, my man. Thanks again for joining. We'll talk soon. Thanks so much for being here with us on the Sports Card Strategy Show. If you enjoyed the content on today's show, there's plenty more waiting for you@noallseason.com. just go to noofseason.com right now. You get our formula based sports card rankings, sports card school inventory tracker, the ability to go grade with us, and the premium podcast where we answer an unlimited amount of your questions. Check it out right now at nooffseason. Com for everyone at nooffseason. Com. I'm Paul Hickey. Thanks again for being here with us on the Sports Card Strategy Show. We'll see you again soon. Have a great day.