Sports Card Investing Tips That Actually Work

I think a lot of people are, like, chasing the current products instead of looking at what's next in terms of, like, overall trend wise. So, for example, like Caitlin Clark, she obviously was out for the season. And if you just look at Google trends, like her trend was up to 100 and now it dropped to zero and now it's coming back up a little bit. It's just kind of a simple supply and demand thing. It's like, look where people aren't looking sell when people are looking at your player. I think Pokemon's like, it's got such a wider demographic. The collectability is incredible. And I think every time you go to a show, you see, I guess, like, just passion in the Pokemon industry. And it's a little bit annoying as a sports card fan going to these shows. And now it's like, damn, 60% of the tables are taken up by Pokemon. Welcome to the Trading Cards and Collectibles podcast on the Radcast Network. From chasing grails to calling bluffs and going inside the hobby, are you ready to collect? Let's get at it. Here is your host, Ryan Alford. Hey, guys, what's up? Welcome to Trading Cards and Collectibles here as we close out October, joined today by Kunal Ahuja. He is Sports Card Invest. It's his business podcast handles sci. Get to know him. What's up, Kunal? How's it going? I appreciate you having me on. Yeah, man. I'm about 18 months back into the hobby. My four young boys lured me back in and that's been fun. It's been fun. Yeah, yeah. It's a good time to get in. I know it's, it's. It's crazy out there. I. All my friends that suddenly I didn't know collect, collect. And everyone in my network seems to collect. And so it's been fun tying all the pieces together and getting to talk to smart guys like you. Oh, I appreciate that 100%. Yeah. I feel like the last 18 months in the hobby has been so many changes, of course, with like, fanatics and everything. So, you know, I'm sure it's been a ride for you. Yeah, I mean, you know, first just kind of the. I don't know, getting orthodox back into, you know, when I. My time was late 80s, early 90s and junk wax errors, unfortunately. So now, you know, I've got some cards from the early 80s from rookies and stuff that are. That are cool. But it didn't. Unfortunately, you know, I didn't grow up during the. The hate where things started to get interesting with parallels and everything else. But that's been sort of the. By. By fire and getting, you know, I understand it. I mean, I mean, I was pretty deep in it when I was as a kid and teenager. So I mean, the principles are still the same in a lot of ways, but the variety of cards, brands and. And of course, technology's come a long way finally. Yeah, I would say a little slow, A little slower than I would have thought once I got back into it. But it's been fascinating and watching, like you said, just the, the growth of it and you know, hoping that we're not in a bubble. I seen a few posts here recently. I'm curious to get your take on all of it. Yeah, no, 100%, I think 20. So for me, I started collecting as a kid. I was local to San Francisco, so the Giants won the World Series in 2010, 2012, 2014. So that was a time where I was heavy into the sports card industry, more so on the collecting side. Too young to think of it as a business, but I really enjoyed collecting and it kind of was what first sparked my interest there. And when I got back into it in 2019, from more of an investment side, I loved business. Loved. I've always kind of been a little bit entrepreneurial, obviously grew up in Silicon Valley, so it's an area where all the biggest businesses that, you know, were founded. So that's right around the block for me. But yeah, no, I mean, when I got back in, the industry was in a very interesting spot. The pandemic hits the year after and stuff just goes bananas. Everyone gets in prices just absolutely take an insane run from 2020 to 2021. It was a lot of euphoria and a lot of know, I would say unsustainable growth and people are throwing money at every. Like, I remember the NBA bubble. Like TJ Warren has a 40 point game and the next day some of his cards are selling for 5,000, $10,000. You know, it would be one game from Luca in the bubble and his market absolutely exploded at that time. Kawhi's market, like there's. It was such an interesting time for the sports card hobby. And you know, it was. I was still very new to it, but I knew right off the bat, knowing anything about business that that was very unsustainable. Kind of just like the way in which people were throwing money at, you know, these cards and stimulus checks and just everything was, you know, an insane time. And you know, thankfully we were able to Make a great business and build for the long term during that time. But there was always that awareness that like okay, when is this going to calm down? And it did 2022 to like 2024 I would say was like a pretty slow period for us in our business and in general the sports card industry. It wasn't at, you know, close to where it was in 2020 and 2021 this time around. You know, we've seen a lot of great growth over like the last 12 to 18 months and I would say it feels a little bit more sustainable. I think money is becoming smarter. People aren't just throwing money at base prisms that you know are pop 10,000 plus like they were back in 2020 and you know, chasing after base prisms and all the young players and just speculation which I think there still is a healthy amount of right now. But I think the, the big kind of part that's fueled this growth has been obviously one has been fanatics coming into the industry and doing promotions, you know, that way. But I think we've seen a lot of international growth this year. The amount of shows we've been tracking this and I've been going to these international shows and every single year there seems to be an incredible amount of growth in Asia and Europe which has been super interesting because as you know with Asia, they love the NBA, Europe loves soccer and they're, you know, the amount of money that they are bringing in and liquidity is, is a very interesting place that like our business is looking at right now. And then a lot of money is going towards the all time great. So we've seen the biggest growth this year has come from like the Kobe's, the Currys, the Jordans, the Lebron's, you know, the Brady's, Mahomes. So I think a lot of it this time is a little bit more calculated and slow paced in terms of growing and it's more so a lot more new eyeballs on the industry and a lot more money being spent towards high end grail pieces that people hopefully one day look at as Picassos as opposed to like you know, people throwing money towards base prisms of the next guy who dropped 40 points in a game. So I do think it's a lot more sustainable this time. Of course, you know, we've still seen some prices run up quite fast for some of these all time greats and I think there'll always be ebbs and flows in that area. But I overall do feel like this time this growth is a little bit more you know, I can wrap my heads around, I can wrap my head around it a little bit better than the 2020. Boom. Collectibles show is where you'll find all of the channels and learn more about what we're doing and ultimately, hey, we want to hear from you. You do case hits at Collectibles Show. I want you to send in your favorite pulls of the week. And here's the difference. This isn't about just value. Hey, we want to see some ten thousand dollar hits. Had a couple of those myself a few months back. But it's not just about the value. It's about what you're collecting, what means something to you. Share a story, share a video of you holding up the card that you hit last week that was your favorite player and you nailed it. So case hitsollectables show, send in those videos. I want to know the stories. We're going to bring them to life here on the show. We're going to do a segment each week once we get rolling and get some videos in where we share that on the show with us. We want to feature you on collectibles Show. The president of Upper Deck made a comment like yesterday, the day before that essentially said, you know, it's a lot of the 10% of wealth coming into the game, you know, investors and it's unsustainable. You know, like when boxes are a thousand, you know, when entry boxes are a thousand dollars a box, like there's nowhere for it to go but down. And you know, what do you say to that comment, you know, from him like it's on one. I'll, I'll give you my opinion then I'll ask you or you know like we tend to say these things, you know and, and there are times where there's clear bubbles. Real estate in 08, the 2020 with you know, we were printing money faster than we were printing cards, you know and it for whether it was right or wrong or indifferent. I think for the right re. You know, we thought it was the right reasons and it probably was. But we'll stay out of politics. The and government too complicated. But the, but first for trading cards, you know, there's these clear bubbles that you know, aren't gonna last. I don't know that I completely agree but it does feel like we're teetering in a danger zone potentially. But I don't, I don't know that the genie's going back in the bottle. I don't feel, this doesn't feel like a, this feels like something that's been coming versus just a trend in a box. The way, you know, the COVID was its own thing in a circle. I mean literally, you know, like one time, hopefully ever. Hopefully, yeah. Knock on wood. But. And you have these bubbles of things that just happen in, you know, in this period. This feels like it's been kind of in trending this way with, with investor money in certain things. So I don't know. What's your perspective? Yeah, I mean I think, you know, I actually talked to Mike Mahan who was. Who heads Finax Collectibles about this specifically. Mike met. Met Mike at the National. Yeah. So he had interesting thing to say which was I think it's a big balance between making sure that they keep the scarcity. Yeah. Which keeps prices at solid numbers but also have enough entry level products so people who are getting into the industry aren't priced out. Because at the end of the day if kids are priced out, if a lot of people are priced out of the industry, it does become hard for the industry to grow if you have to spend $2,000 to open up your first box. Right. It's just not what drives people into the industry. And so how he kind of laid it out was there's going to be products for everyone. There's going to be high end, flawless, like products, national treasures, like products that Topps releases that like. Yeah, this is for the top 1% of collectors or investors or whatever you want to call them, or the top 5%, the top 10%. And then there's got to be products that are affordable. And I think what could be interesting is how the dust settles over time because there hasn't been kind of a time where we've had this much of, I'd say a disconnect between the average collector and the top 1%. Right. Yeah. Whereas you have guys like Kevin O', Leary, Shine and all these guys dropping tens of millions of dollars on a single card and their index is what, $20 million plus in a couple months. And then you have these average collectors coming in with $10 looking to spend some money and make have some fun. And I think that's where like the big balance is. And I, I think personally I feel like from being in the industry talking to people, talking to TOPS fanatics, I think they're very well aware of like making sure. I think a lot of people have learned from the junk wax era and a lot of people have learned from the COVID bubble which was like, how do we avoid all those traps that, you know, the sports card industry have seen in the past to where a lot of people lost a lot of money because stuff was unsustainable. And I think that's going to be partially on tops to like figure out what that balance is. And you know, now that they have the licenses, it's like how do we get those products that at anybody can get their hands on? And maybe those are the ones that the print council a little bit high and they're not meant to be, you know, the cards that hold the best value for the long term, but they're a lot of fun for the average everyday collector to join the industry and maybe work their way up from and then those, you know, top of the top products that the top 1% are going to chase and have a lot of fun with and maybe those are the scarce cards that can have those long term, I guess like investment side investment upside. Yeah. So, you know, I think that's got to be where and I think it is where Tops headset and if they're able to do that. Well, I don't think it will be like it was during the junk wax era, 2020. But obviously companies have the ability, like Topps have the ability to print money by printing more cards, making more boxes. So there's always that give and take. But I think, yeah, you know, the reality is you can't have. We've gotten to this place where I think, you know, kids are people that are trying to spend 100 bucks or 50 bucks or whatever. You don't get a Porsche for 50. You know, like there's layers and yeah, I think the reality is there's just going to be these, these levels and it's okay to have good, better, best. And yeah, if you can afford it and it's within your budget and it's reasonable and you want to invest or part of your collection, then you make that choice. And if, you know, as long as there's an affordable option, you know, this is capitalism, you know, like, yeah, it's like I don't think anybody should be crying over the fact that, well, the, you know, national treasures is 10 grand. Well, you know, that's the Cadillac or the Port, whatever your choice is for luxury vehicle. You know, we don't all drive Lamborghinis. You know, like it is the, it's the Lamborghini and so you drive a Honda and it's a great one and it's cool and it's reliable and you're still doing what it needs to do. And so if you're buying base Tops. And, you know, chasing whatever the Chase card might be in that, that's okay. So, I mean, I think some of it's based on, well, everybody wants to be able to get their shot at the $100,000 card. Well, if you want that shot, then you need to save your money up and buy the Lamborghini on some level. And so I think it's okay to have choice as long as there's that selection. And so, you know, I do want to get your opinion. The licensing thing, you know, two things can be true at the same time for me. I can respect Michael Rubin. I can like mayhem. And both of those things are true. And as business people, as people I've got, I've met both of them. I don't have no problem. I like them. I think they're fine for the hobby and, and, and have the, you know, they're. They're. They're running a business, you know. So as a business guy myself, owning multiple companies, I got no problem. These guys are, These guys are killers, man. Kill in business, they're great. I got nothing to do. Good things. But then I can also be kind of sad, you know, so it's like, man, why couldn't that deal happen? So that we have. Because then that deal happens, then you still have downtowns and kabooms and everything could have had the license. It had just been. Yeah, it all been owned by fanatics, but everybody had been wealthy. So, yeah, I don't know. Like, it's the nostalgia and wanting it all to happen at the same time. Also respecting, you know, its business. What do you think about the licensing thing? Yeah, no, I mean, I think I'm in a very similar boat to you where, like, you have to respect it and change at some points. Like, I know people probably felt the same way when Topps chrome left in 2009. Like, what is this Panini thing? And I think it did take Panini need a couple years to like, come out with products that like people like nowadays. Yeah. Because I know, like, what they're familiar with. Right. That's exactly what I was going to say. I mean, it's like people are going to. Anytime there's change and, you know, you don't have that nostalgia for stuff you've collected for the past decade. It's going to be tough. And there's going to be a lot of critics about the new products that drop. I know, like tops. People are saying the new product doesn't look high quality, you know, and I think that's part of like, evolving and growing and figuring out the tops. People talking about their own product says it. No, not tops, just people in general on the Internet, like, talking about how top, you know, they miss Panini and how the new Topps product isn't giving them the same feel. And I think that's normal. You know, when you look at 2009 Topps Chrome, and then you look at 2010, like, Panini Standard, it's not gonna. It's not the same. Yeah. And I've talked to people who are going through it at that time, right to where it's like, it's tough to get off of what you're used to and. Yep. You know, I personally would have loved Panini to stay in tops, to buy them out and figure out how to keep those iconic, you know, national treasures. RPA is flawless. I love one of my favorite products of all time. So, you know, that's kind of just like the growing pains of figuring out how can we get the industry to, like, a healthy place. And I think that's where everyone's head's at. But it's gonna come with a little bit of, like, getting us away from. Yeah. Oh, 100%. And I think that's inevitable. It's gonna be tougher. Tops. What's Panini going to do? I mean, I just. I know Topps has somewhat gotten by with the unlicensed stuff, but, you know, I. I joke with Brian L. With Ludx. He does the show with me on Fridays. You know, I joke that, you know, seeing Wimy in the rec league uniform on that Topps Chrome, no matter how imposing he was, he still looked like he was in a Y jersey, YMCA jersey, you know, dunking the ball because he had no logos on, and it's like. Yeah, and. And Topps had sort of the. And Panini has it, too, to a degree, but, like, it just ain't the same. And it's not. I don't know what. They're good. You know, people will buy stuff. They buy that unlicensed baseball, but I just kind of run away from it. And I don't know. Yeah. I don't know what. What says you with their future. Oh. If I'm being honest, like, it. It's tough. It's just tough because Topps had all that marketing behind all these products. They had all these players signing. They had. They had a lot going on, and it was still tough to, like, get those products much market share. So when you flip it and you have the smaller company trying to make their little Lane. I'm sure they can make a lane, but it's going to be tough to compete with Tops having a license, their promotions, there's players or exclusive deals. It's just going to be. I think it's going to be tough for Panini to reinvent themselves. And I think that's what they're going to have to do at this point is reinvent themselves, figure out, okay, you know, what can we do here that's gonna get us the most market share or get us at least maybe one product that hits the mark. Who knows what that's gonna end up looking like? But I would definitely say it's gonna be a lot tougher for Panini to try to pull that off than it was for Tops. And it was still very tops for. It was still very tough for Tops. So yeah, yeah, it could be non sports stuff. Yeah, I think there could be. There is opportunity there, especially with for sure emerging demographics getting into it, more girls and women coming into it. I think there's, you know, between movies and other franchise and ip. Yeah, I think there is opportunities there. I think you'll see more of that like starting to come talk to me about Pokemon. I mean, what does, what's Kunal collect? To be honest, I, I've been a sports guy my whole life. Yeah, I mean your sports card invests. But I heard, we talked pre show a little bit. I heard Pokemon stuff in the product, stuff you guys sell. I mean, is it what says you about the Pokemon industry in general? I think Pokemon's like, it's got such a wider demographic, I believe and I think it's just super interesting. Every time they have like one of their five year anniversaries, like 25th anniversary or whatever, those are the years where just like the whole industry takes off and people get back into it and all the nostalgia comes back. And I think it's a super interesting part of the industry in the sense that like it's, it's all like from what I understand, it's so much higher percentage of collectors as opposed to investors. And everyone in the industry like genuinely just loves to collect. And I think that's kind of like the culture around it that varies a little bit different from the sports card side. I think the sports card side you got a mix of people trying to flip, people trying to, you know, invest for the long term institutional money. And of course you have a little bit of that in the Pokemon industry. But I think it's a lot more collector centered and I think it's shows Like, I see it in the shows like been doing. The boys have done a few shows and like the people walking around that are Pokemon people, they are collecting, baby. I mean, they are like, you know, they're getting their last set. Like you can see it. And then the sports card. Every 12 year old's a dealer. Oh, yeah. I mean, there's no cards for sale. Yeah, every car's for sale. And it's like they're just flipping city. You know, they're like buying from one dealer, selling to the next, next. I mean, I respect the grind. Like, I. I'm cool with it, but it's like that it is a. A different thing with the Pokemon guys. Yeah, no, 100% it is the demographics wide. Yeah, the demographics wide. And like the collectibility is incredible. And I think those are like the two things that stand out. Like every time you go to a show, you see the, I guess like just passion in the Pokemon industry. And you know, it's a little bit annoying as a sports card fan going to these shows. And now it's like, damn, 60% of the tables are taken up by Pokemon. Yeah. The collectability is an interesting word. You know, like, let's go down that for a second because I think that's Pokemon. You know, by the nature of what it is, the art, different artistic views of different cards and characters. And that's where you know the sports stuff. When they've dabbled in it, you've seen how hot it gets. Kaboom. Downtown. Mango. Color Blast. Color Blast. So the desire is there for something different in the sports card market. But we seem just set on how many different in uniform, boring, you know, photos can we take of a player, you know, like sort of in action. I mean, by nature, photography is not as, you know, dynamic as video. And so when you bring in the artistic side, you bring in more collectability. That's why I love like this. I'm just gonna. Somebody's gonna laugh at me. I'm gonna get hate, hate emails. I already know Kanal. They're gonna say, this guy doesn't know he's talking about. So you're just stick with me. But like Zenith football this year, Zenith football, that state of the art, very inexpensive. But I appreciated what they tried to do there, you know, a little more artistic. It wasn't a $500 card, you know, they were like four or $5 cards. And so that to me, like bring. Give me more of that in maybe more of the more desirable brands or something, like in attempts. And I know that they've got their different things that they try to do, but that felt at least a little thoughtful with the hometown. And it. It had a little bit of the flare of the downtown, but I don't know. I think there's room to create more collectibility in these sets. Yeah. Oh, I 100 agree. I think panini did a great job with that towards the end to where they were a little bit more focused on like. Okay. I think manga was super. Was a super great addition. Obviously those were a little bit more recent, but I think they really like started to catch steam, especially with like this last product that dropped. Like the mangoes are selling for incredible amounts. People love to collect them. Yeah, they're different. Personally. Yeah. No, 100%, you know. Yeah. Yeah. I personally was the biggest color Blast fan and downtowns and Kabooms for me are like middle tier. I like them a lot, but I'm not. I feel like Color blast just like the look of them were. That was my personal favorite, which I'm gonna miss. But yeah, I mean, I'm holding like all the quarterbacks from last year. Color blasts. I got like all those. Yeah. And I love. Yeah, yeah. Oh 100. Especially when they have like the dual ones from this last year, like LeBron and D. Wade or whatever else I think it was. I believe there was a Curry and Draymond. I'm hopeful Tops, you know, has some stuff up. I'm sure they do. I'm sure they do. Yeah. I really. One thing I will give Tops a lot of credit on is I think the debut patches are super, you know, super interesting. I feel like it's like bringing back the logo, man, but in a. In a different way and adding like that iconic like each player is only going to have one debut patch. We saw of course, like the Paul Skeens, you know, the hype around that. So I think it's. Yeah, it's. That's the opening Top basketball. The new Tops basketball group. Any of that. What do you think? I. I've been in this. In this move the last three weeks. I've just kind of shut everything down trying to get studio moved and we're opening kind of a mixed use studio card shop. Oh, cool. Like pretty much like trading cards live. Everything's filmed and on camera and I got a studio and podcast here, breakers and all that stuff. So it's gonna be cool. The. But as I've kind of had all the. I've been watching but you know, normally would have been ripping or doing some kind of Trades or deals, but I haven't. Haven't even opened the first pack. What's your thoughts on it? Yeah, no, I mean, I think for Tops, it's. It's a good start. When you look at like 2003 tops or like any, I guess, 96 tops or like other products, I think Tops is going to be a pretty standard product. And I think people were expecting a little bit too much out of it. Yeah. But, you know, not Chrome. It's not, you know. No, 100%. I think Chrome's going to be super interesting. I think that's where I'm going to hopefully have a little bit better of like, a understanding of where this thing's headed. But, yeah, I mean, for a Bass Tops product, it's. It's not a bad product. I enjoyed ripping it. Yeah, I think a lot of people enjoy ripping it. I just don't think you're gonna, you know, you're not gonna pay a million dollar card. Yeah. You're chasing Cooper Flag and Rimby Autos or something. Yeah, I mean, you got Cooper Flag Wemby. I think the class is strong and, you know, it's. It's a fun rip, like, you know, most base products, but it's more so, I think, comparable to like a Prism or an Optic. Probably in between the two, in my opinion, to where it's like, maybe I think Prism did a little bit better of a job, like throwing in those black 101s and making a lot of stuff. Like the gold prisms became super collectible. And I don't think Topps has cards that replicate that. But, like, you know, it's their first product and I'm sure they're going to evolve and like, figure out I do really, like, like the Chrome and like, the silver lining around, like, how Prism presented itself and how Tops Chrome usually presents itself. So that's something that I do feel like it's missing with, like, the paper products. So, like, Topps papers, it's not going to be as, you know, as collectible in my opinion. But yeah, they bought all those printers supposedly that Panini had, so, like, I should be getting it together, you know, Like. Yeah, but it does, like, I mean, what's the Tops version of a Downtown or a Kaboom or a Color Blast? Like, that's. That's kind of like my thing is, like, they've had the opportunity to duplicate that and. But what's, what is their. What's going to be their version of that. Yeah, I mean, I feel like they're Trying with like these inserts, but I don't think, I think it takes a little bit of time to be honest for like these inserts to really start to gain popularity. Yeah. And I don't like any of the ones from the last one. If I'm being completely honest. I'm not in love with them like design wise. But you know, they've got a plenty more products to like try to reinvent that. And it did take Panini a while to get there. If you look at like the first decade of like Panini printing, there weren't many of those, you know, Kaboom's color blasts that took off. You know, I think along the years we're probably going to have more of those stick. Maybe it's going to be like inserts out of Chrome, maybe it's going to be case hits out of another product. But I think that's definitely got to be something in their mind, I imagine of like, all right, what are we gonna, what are we gonna do to replicate all, all these products that people loved? I know you do a lot of the buy, hold, sell, you know, with your show and investing. What tips do you have for the listeners? Like anything, any juicy stuff, like what are you, what's research, what's trending, you know, what should people. What should be on people's radar? Yeah, I mean I think a lot of people are like kind of just chasing what's next or like chasing the current products instead of looking at what's next in terms of like overall trend wise. So one thing we've started to do a lot more recently is like, look at Google trends. So for example, like Caitlin Clark, she obviously was out for the season and if you just look at Google Trends, like her trend was at up to 100 and now it dropped to zero and now it's coming back up a little bit. So it's like if you can follow the trends and look where people aren't looking, buy these players when people aren't looking their way and maybe they're injured, they're out for the next six months, guys like Halliburton. That's where I feel like a lot of the value can be made. And where we look a lot is like kind of the low hanging fruit of like, okay, we know the demand for this player is going to be more in six months than it is today. And we know a lot of people are selling and people are not really holding because this player is not playing for six months. So it's just kind of a simple supply and demand thing. It's like look where people aren't looking sell when people are looking at your player. So that's something we've really done is just basic economics. Take it back, okay? No one's looking at this player in six months when they're about to return, everyone's going to be focused on this player. Let's buy it now, sell in six months and you know, simple, simple I guess business tactics. How about a retired player or you know, a set that hey, if you're thinking about dabbling in, you know, the, the Legends market or older cards and yeah, we can all go think about buying a fifty thousand dollar Mickey Mantle or something. But I mean you know like and more than that 500,000. 5 million. Yeah, but maybe something reasonable that a player that you would maybe circle. Yeah, I really like 90s basketball. I think a lot of it's overlooked. So there's kind of this in between markets where it's like modern of course gets all the hype, gets all the eyeballs and vintage has its market. So like if you look at 60s, 70s, like Wilts, they're, they're nostalgic enough to where they've kind of got that fan base of people Maybe, maybe they're 40 to 70 year olds who are interested in those. And then you kind of have, I guess you could say like Kobe's era. This is kind of true for like football as well and baseball as well. Like the Mannings. I feel like they are in between being current players and being nostalgic. Like I guess like I think there is a time where they're going to be looked at in that last batch and that's where there's going to be some growth to be had. So I'm really looking at that era. I think the guys like Iverson, super iconic but I feel like their collectibility isn't quite where it should be because there's probably going to reach a time where the people who watch them growing up as kids settle down, they have enough money to buy their big cards, maybe they reach their 40s, reach their 50s and now that market starts to mature, it becomes more nostalgic. So that's something I'm definitely looking at like players who retired over the last 10 years that haven't quite like been put in the nostalgia category but aren't modern players either. I think that's like a break in between vintage and modern that often gets overlooked. And when those cards become vintage is when there's a lot of growth to be had. So yeah, I think Manning's one of the players on my list and I'm like, for who he was, I think, incredibly undervalued. You look at some of his cards compared to whether it's a vintage all time great or a modern great, you know, you can see that they're significantly underpriced in my personal opinion. Guys like Iverson, Garnett, there's a lot of players from like that era that I think are just wildly overlooked right now. So I guess we'll see how that plays out over like the next 10, 20 years. But as a long, long term hold, I think that in between is a place that not many people look at, that maybe more people can look at and do their own research and see what they think. Yeah. Garnett is from our town here in South Carolina. I played with him basketball together. Wow. He was a little better. I was good. He was great. Yeah. I mean, it's crazy. Yeah, he's a legend. I think he's undervalued too. There's a lot of guys in that sort of era. It's like these guys. Yeah. You know, top 50 to 75 all time, you know, and yeah, they kind of go under the radar, but they do. Hey, man, it's been great talking with you. Love to have you on again sometime and tell everybody where they can keep up with everything you've got going on. Website handles all that stuff. Yeah. Appreciate you having me on. YouTube, Sports Card Invest, Instagram, Sports Card Invest. Our YouTube is sports car or our website is sportscards invest.com with the plural of the cards with an s. So, yeah, I mean, we're always posting stuff for sale. We're always making, you know, newsworthy posts on Instagram covering topics on YouTube like Ryan does. So appreciate you having me on once again. It was a lot of fun talking with you. Yeah, man. Love what you're doing and keep it up and love the partner. Collab sometime on something fun and appreciate all you do for the hobby. Yep. Appreciate you. Hey, man, you know where to find us. Collectibles show. You'll find the full episode. All the links to Kanal's stuff with Smart Card Invest. A lot of good guys in the hobby. He's one of them. They're doing good things, keeping up with ways to invest and do it responsibly in the hobby. You can find me at Ryan Alford on all the social media platforms. That blue check before you could buy it, baby. We'll see you next time on trading cards and collectibles. Thanks for tuning in to the show. Don't forget to follow us on your favorite podcast platform, and don't miss the full video version on YouTube. You can find us at www.collectibles.show or follow Ryan on Instagram at ryanolford. Now get out there and collect your.