The $24 Million BABE RUTH Jersey: Barry Meisel on Authenticating Sports History

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One world back in the 90s, Sotheby's came to us in 2021 with a jersey that they felt was worn by Jordan in the Last Dance. That Jersey went for 10.091 million. Then the world started taking notice of photo Magic. I'm Ryan Alford. And I'm Bella Schaefer and this is Collector. We are curating all of the content in the hobby just for you. All in one place. All the videos, all the podcasts, all the reels, all those drops you want right here, right now on Collecting Nation. Today we're still live at the National. We had lots of guests. This one was amazing. We talked about authentication and jerseys. Some of the biggest names. Michael Jordan, just to name a few. We're in Chicago at the national talking with Barry Meisel. He is the CEO and founder of My Gray and we get all into what it takes to run authentication in 2026. Barry was awesome. You're going to love it. It's all about the hobby. It's right now. Appreciate everybody for joining. We're filming an episode here with many guests. Check us out at the collector, nation.com and ludx.com and of course, hey, we're going OG today. The one of the OG. We're the original pioneers of authenticating jerseys and all kinds of stuff. My friend Barry Meisel. What's up Barry? I'm doing great, Ryan. Thanks. Ryan, good to see you. Great to see everybody out there. Thanks for having me. Hey, talk to us Migray we've got, I mean it's kind of like standing out here. We're going to get to the jersey in the middle. A true relic from a day's past. Talk to me Barry, about building my gray. You know we had. I've heard the good story a little bit but I'm anxious myself to hear it how this all came about. Well when I look out at a room like this, when I came into the hobby in the prehistoric, before the prehistoric days, you needed a couple of tables for the, for the, the hobby. This was long before the first national. It's when probably a decade before the first national could have fit in one of the back conferences rooms. But we saw a growing love for not just cards which is the vast majority of our great hobby, but game worn product. My thing as a collector was there's got to be an organized approach to authentication. I was a sports writer my first life I was a sports writer for the New York Daily News. Had opportunities to visit the great city of Chicago. Wrigley covering the Mets. I covered the New York Rangers and the New York Islanders saw the Blackhawks. And I was a collector. I wanted one jersey from every team I covered right out of the locker room. And there were collectors like myself, a good handful of game worn jersey collectors. If you knew a guy who knew a guy whose brother in law knew a guy in the locker room, you could get a jersey. There are a lot of people paying for this but nobody knew it was real. And as happens in life once in a million years for some people the light bulb went off and said there's got to be a better way. And I went to the New York Rangers, the New Jersey Devils and the New York football Giants, another team I covered and said if I started a company that acted as a liaison between collector collectors who wanted to collect game worn and the teams. Would you sell me your game worn jerseys? You know what their answer was? No. No. Are you crazy? They said you're gonna leave the New York Daily News as a sports writer to start a company selling dirty laundry. Oh that's awesome. And when I told them the size of the check that I would write. Migrate was formed. It was 1997. I bet it was Europe and crazy. Yu-Gi-Oh and crazier. What they didn't understand, they knew that people collected this stuff. They didn't know that it was the prehistoric days that there was a real, I don't want to call it an industry back then. The game Warren hobby was years behind the card market but there was Something percolating. It just needed someone. And I'll, you know, my gray will take credit for being one of the first to give credibility to Game one. Just like cards had received credibility and without authenticity, you Goldin have it. I brought authenticity into the game one world back in the 90s. That's great. That's an unbelievable story. So I read somewhere that there's 40% of the signed memorabilia out there is fraudulent. And to have something like this is amazing. I mean what, how, what's the process like to authenticate it? How many images do you have to go through and what's the lift look like? Well, it's been a long journey. When I, when I started in 1997, my goal was to photo match every jersey. Photo match was the word I conjured to say, I'm going to prove that Michael Jordan wore this jersey for the Chicago Bulls. Well, people said that's a needle in the haystack. How are you going to prove it? And I said, wait a second. There'd been one or two pictures taken of Michael Jordan playing in a game. If I had the real jersey, again, not some fake or some imagination of somebody's imagination, but had the jersey coming off Michael's back, I could then look at photos match whether it's the J and Jordan resting a certain way on his jersey. The unique characteristics of the number two. Because every jersey is unique. The air knit holes, the imperfections in a jersey no different than a fingerprint. I basically said that is going to be the process we use. All I needed was the buy in from the teams to give me the real stuff right out of the locker room so that I could prove it to the collector. I felt there was a lot of money on the sideline of people who were willing to spend for this stuff, but they had to be sure it was real. There's a million people on earth who say they have a Michael Jordan game warrant. Not too many of a Michael Jordan that Michael Jordan wore because we prove it. Now behind me is a jersey that Matt Snell, many probably haven't heard of him. He was one of the key performers In Zebra Bowl 3, one of the most important games in the history of the National Football League. It was the game when the New York Jets, Joe Namus guarantee upset the heavily favored Baltimore Colts and really put on a rocket ship the AFL NFL merger that became the NFL we know today this jersey is ripped to shreds. And I have a picture next to me, a photo match in which if you look closely at the Picture, you can see a little 1 inch repair done by the equipment manager. You could see a thread coming off. You could see that this is the actual jersey that was worn in the game. That is photo matching. And that's what we started doing 29 years ago. And today it's become a necessary part of authentication for game one. Barry, I need to be your IP agent because I hear photo matching all the time. It needs to have like a bm, not a tm, a BM in the corner. We're going to do that on your website. When we opened the card shop, one of the biggest things we had to figure out was how to make the buying process easy. Because in a business like this, people are not always shopping the same way. Some customers are coming into the store, some are going to see a product online, some are watching what we post, and some are ready to buy the second they see something they want. This is why we use Shopify for our storefront. For us, Shopify helps keep the business moving. Whether someone is checking out online, buying sealed product cards, merch, or coming back to grab something they saw from the shop, the process feels simple and professional. And when a customer is ready to pay, that checkout experience matters. You do not want a clunky system getting in the way of the sale. That's called friction. And I'll be honest, hearing that Shopify, when an order comes through, still feels good. It is that reminder that the business is working even when you're busy running everything else. This is why Shopify does so well. It gives you the tools to start, sell and grow so you can spend less time fighting the setup and more time actually building the business. With Shopify, nothing stands between your idea and a real business. So get out there and make it one. Start your free trial at shopify.com collectornation. Start your free trial at shopify.com Collectornation at shopify.com/ collector nation. Well, interestingly enough, we try to trademark it. We tried a trademark it long ago, but nobody knew what it meant. That's why you put a BM on there. It's not a proprietary thing. It just takes work, it takes integrity, and it takes the Absolute discipline to only say a jersey is worn when it can be proved. I'm the Mayan migrate. My partner Bob Gray and I said we're going to create a system where we can put our hands on the Bible under oath in a court of law. Say, I know Michael Jordan wore this jersey and here's why. When you look at it, Barry, I know I'M going to let you do most of talking because you're an amazing storyteller. So I want to make this short. I need a story because you've got them. I know. Tell me a story of like what? Like capturing. I mean, obviously there'd be one here, but tell us one. You know, we're in Chicago. You got a good Chicago story. Well, one of the most famous authentications that put migray and game warn on the map in this accelerated post Covid world where as we see anyone who's walked the Fleer in the national. This has become an amazing, amazing industry asset class. Sotheby's came to us in 2021 with a jersey that they felt was worn by Jordan in the 98 finals. The last Dance and the Netflix series had just come out and Jordan jerseys have been around for a long time. But could we prove that he wore this jersey in the NBA finals the Last Dance? And we did. And Sotheby's held a display of this type with just that jersey in their New York showroom. And that Jersey went for 10.091 million. Then the world started taking notice of photo magic. That is now the number 2 or 3 jersey. We photomatched and Yu-Gi-Oh you want a Chicago angle. It was a Babe Ruth jersey. But does anyone here remember what happened in Chicago with the cold shot? Babe Ruth's called shot jersey was floating around the hobby. And about two years ago, we proved it took years of forensics and old photos. We went to the hall of fame and got archival video. And it took an incredible amount to prove the jersey on his back was the called shot. 24.12 million. That's holy. I mean, that's amazing. I mean, it's like, it's. You're almost like a forensic investigator. No. Friend. A forensic hobby specialist. Well, we are, but that's what the hobby demands now. I mean, to all you card collectors out there, when a top grader says it's a, it's a 10, you want to be sure they know what they're doing. You can't just throw numbers around. But those tens dominate the market. It's the same thing. When my grace says it's real, it's real. When my grace says it's photo match to the call shot, well, people come from high and far. And 24.12 is the most expensive game worn sports relic in the history of our hobby. I knew you had a good one. I knew it. Question for you. If there's a Jordan jersey that is authenticated signature and that that's a 1x value. If it goes to your company, what's the multiple? Like a PSA 10 gets, you know, a 10X. But what. What is it like in. Remember, autographed jerseys have a lot of value. We deal in game worn, not autographed, but autographed. Game worn carries a premium. There are some collectors that want game worn exactly as it came off the court and do not want the jersey signed. They may want the letter of authenticity that we provide signed by the player. But to answer your question, if you showed me a Jordan jersey that someone attested was game worn, even if it came with a letter from the Chicago Bulls, of which the charitables did a real good program in 1997, 98 with Jordan jerseys they were trading at, you know, let's just say that at 1x back in the day, 20, 50,000 five years ago, 50 to 100,000 with photo authenticity. With a photo match, I'd say easily 10x. Yu-Gi-Oh Yu-Gi-Oh Barry, how big a problem in 2026 is counterfeit merchandise in this realm? Well, I appreciate you asking me that question, Ryan, because I'm proud. It's important for education. Yu-Gi-Oh I'm proud to say it's a lot less than it was before my grade came into existence, because back then, the standard was, did you know somebody? And is the tag incorrect? But anybody could run off 100 jerseys of a player. One goes on his back, the other 99 go off to ostensibly rip off people or people don't know what's real versus what's not. Back in the day, in the early 2000s, they were called pro cuts. They were exactly what the player worn on the court. And the NBA promoted this as a. As a retail relic. They weren't trying to say it was game war, not at the least, but people didn't know the difference. So there was a big problem back then. We've educated the collectors, we've educated the world. We've worked directly with the teams and leagues. Migrate. Started the National Hockey league migrate game one authentication program in 2002. We started the National Basketball association and Migrate National Basketball association and migrate game one program in 2006. So we told the collectors, you've got to come from a source that's working directly with the teams and the leagues, authenticating, proving photo matching, and then sending them out to the hobby. So when I think about, like yesterday I talked about no more sticker autos. Can we start the movement to only game worn relics on the cards? That's another interesting part of this thing, because Back in the day when, when game one swatches of cards became a thing, a lot of game worn enthusiasts, the nerds like me, were up in arms. Oh man. How could you cut up a game one relic? Because it's so rare. We saw a value in doing both. So we worked with the card companies back in the day and we said you can buy anything and you're not going to be sure it's actually game worn. But if you buy through our program, we'll prove there. We'll photo match the jerseys, we'll send them to you, and if you cut those up and only those, you will create confidence in the sports card market. And that is what's happened. So I'm proud to say that we helped clean that up too. Because back in the day the card companies didn't know where to go. And once they realized we were a credible source for getting real game worn and we're taking them right from the locker rooms, it really enhanced the sports card market, we believe. And what about any verticals? Would you, let's just say a guitar that someone played on stage, Is that something that you're looking into or you do? Absolutely. It is scalable to anything. We're actually working on some incredible non sports relics. If you go to the migrate booth, 23:20 on the main Fleer we have photo matched A Superman original, one of one the TV show from the 1950s, the Adventures of Superman. George Reeves was the actor long before Christopher Reeve did the movie. But downstairs you can see, and we can prove it with photo authentication that this Superman costume was worn by George reeves in the TV series from 1952-58. And this was a final episode game photo patch auto probably a 5,6 million dollar relic. It's the only photomatched Superman costume from that era. So you people can ask your fathers and grandfathers if they remember watching Superman. Yu-Gi-Oh I saw that and I was, I was wondering how much like what the market is on that. But it just seems like in this industry integrity is everything. And for you to be in this industry for 30 years doing what you're doing and giving so much back, so much value back and you know, I, I'm, I'm appreciative to have people like you in this industry doing what you do. Well, I appreciate you saying that, Brian. I mean I was a sports writer in my first life because I was a collector. I had this idea but I felt that it was always a great hobby, even back I started in 1977 when I was in college. And I bought. I opened my first pack and went crazy because I wanted my favorite player, Tom Siva. But I remember saying, this hobby has a lot of potential, but there has to be authenticity. It always came back to authenticity because fakes were plentiful. And I felt. And there were a lot of pioneers like me who felt if you did the right thing, this was going to follow. I'd be lying to you if I said I had a crystal ball and we'd see the kind of numbers of 200,000 people in Chicago enjoying our hobby. Millions for a relic. No, that was fantasy. But. But what I did know was that there was a real passion for this stuff. And people deserve to have the leaders back in the day who were doing the right thing. And then the fun and the credibility would follow. I'm really happy at this late stage of my life to see that it's happened. When you see all the growth in the hobby, it feels like there's another level for this, for game worn, authenticated, like merchandise. It just feels like we've. I know you've been busy. I know you're doing okay, but I. I just. I feel like there's another level to be unlocked in this, because I don't know if every collector knows. Like, they know, maybe it's available, but it's not as out there as cards. You don't go in every store and see a brand on the shelf. The way this goes, I think talk about where you feel like the growth potential in this space is at my age, after all I've talked about and the number of times I've had that conversation. I wish I could remember the conversation in 1999. Like, how much room does this have to grow? And then in 2005, and when a Michael Jordan game one jersey hit, 100,000 people were saying, you're crazy. This thing is gonna. It can't go on forever. Well, you can see my white hair. It's still going on. So does it have legs? Absolutely. We are having meetings with institutional capital. We are having meetings with strategic capital. This is an asset class. Pablo Picasso. And I know nothing about fine art. But you see 20 million, 30 million, and nobody like me was alive. Photo matching Picasso painting the painting. Nobody on earth was alive when the Mona Lisa was painted. I'm here to prove that. That Michael Jordan wore that jersey. So I think you're right. I think this thing is on a rocket ship. And as long as the enjoyment and the fun is balanced by the integrity and the authenticity. This is a rocket ship that Long after I'm gone, I think we're going to be somebody here in 20 years is going to be on this couch saying, let Jordan hit 100 million. Is there more room to grow? So, so I think you're right. And what about walk me through the process. So let's say I want to buy a game use jersey. Do I then send it to you first to get it photo matched and then I buy it or how does it. What's the process look like for a customer? It happens in different ways. Obviously. We are not just an authenticator. We're a marketer. We have partnerships, many partnerships. So let's, let's say right now we're partners with the Goldin State warriors, to use one example. And the Goldin State warriors will send me, over the course of a season, 15 to 20 Stephon Curry jerseys in 82 games and we're about 25, 30 jerseys. We will authenticate them first. So if you're a collector who wants a Stephon Curry game one jersey, you'll know, call Migrate. Come to us. If we, if we've authenticated already, it will be on our site available or many. We sell private sales because they're so scarce and the supply demand ratio is so much in favor of demand. Good news for me, bad news if you're buying, but great news if you're selling in 10 years because the demand is so high that, that you'll have a fully authenticated jersey when you come to our door to shop. If you're looking for something and you see it in the secondary market, we always recommend to the collector if it's a credible seller who's willing to have Migrate authenticated. Make that deal. I will pay you his asking price as long as it goes right to migrate and is authenticated. And Migrate says, yes, it is. If the guy says, no, no, no, no, I don't want to do that, then you know, there's doubts. If he says, sure, I know it's real or I've already had Migrate authenticated, then, then you're on to something. And then, you know, you could buy safely. I think we need to put a D on the end of your name. My grade. That's free. The next one costs a lot. Barry, what's, what do we have to spend budget to get these kind of relics, like walk me through a budget range. Well, the good news is that when a player. Not everybody's Michael Jordan, you know, we use, we're using the goats. But you can get into the game. Warren Harvey from For hundreds of Dollars. Okay, you might, you may get the end of the bench guy, you may get a guy who played two minutes. But the beauty of this, and we've seen this in our growth as a company, the 18 year old college kid who wants a game on jersey because you went to the game last night and can't afford one of the starting five will suddenly become a college grad. A doctor or a lawyer or an IT genius or he'll start a company in this room and then he'll say, all right, now it's time to step up. So the grades, the levels are there. And as we all know, because we're all collectors, show me a collector in the history of the world who just says, I'm finished. I've collected everything I ever. No, it goes on forever. So there is place to get in on the ground Fleer and the sky's the limit. The great news is because this entire industry is on a rocket ship. The guy who bought 10 years ago in the hundreds, his jersey is now worth thousands and the Thousands are worth 10,000 and the growth is astronomical. That's a cheat code. By now I know what's. Who owns those jerseys is it is. Does a team own them or would Stephen Curry give you give them to you personally? It is a great question and it's one of the things that because this industry is blasted off by my understanding of the collective bargaining agreements, the teams own the jerseys, the teams own the garments that are used on the court. But they have the agreements with their players that the players can take these things. Our contracts are usually with the teams in the leagues. We do do deals with players. We have a deal now with the greatest hockey player in the world, Connor McDavid of the Edmonton Oilers. And we get all of his game used equipment. He was a player who understood in day one he didn't want. He was a really good kid and it came from a good family and he didn't want his fans getting ripped off by. I knew a guy, you know, here's a stick. Conor McDavid used it yesterday. No. So we have a deal with Connor McDavid and everything that he uses gets shipped directly to us. And then we market it on his his behalf exclusively. After we photo match everything so we could tell you the skates he wore in game seven two years ago. Unfortunately they lost to the Florida Panthers and it's not a Stanley cup winning skate, but every stick he uses, we prove the game, he used it, and so on and so forth. Seems like this could be endless when you Think about a game, the referee, his jersey, the whistle, the towel that they wipe their sweat off. Are we getting to that stage? We are at the stage where we will do a lot of things like that. We're not a company that does this, but the NHL does work with a lot of companies that will create vials of ice and things, pieces of the glass. We have done things like that. Yes. The wonderful thing about our hobby is we are a nostalgic culture. We want a piece of history, whether it was the game a parent took his first child to or my first game or the night my team, after all these years, finally one-of-one the championship. How much do you think we could get for this Brian Ludden shirt worn at the national One or two before or after I photo patch auto The pit scenes and everything. I think we're about out of time but I do want talk to me about website. We talked a little process but social media channels, any of that stuff. Migrate.com is our website. Amazon Mary E I G-R-A-Y.com. you'll find all of our partnerships. You'll find a lot of what we talked about, how we do it. We talk about the process. We're constantly our social media. We're on Instagram, we're on Facebook, we're on TikTok. I'm not a. I. I probably forget one or two sources, but our YouTube channel has a lot of good videos in which we show some of the things we've talked about. How we do this. It really is fascinating to watch our authenticators. You know, we have them in a very quiet part of our office. We're in Branchburg, New Jersey. 10,000 square feet. They sit in these quiet rooms with. With monitors the size of where you could blow up the letter J in Jordan and and actually do the forensic work. So visit our site. It's a lot of fun and I'm sure you'll find something that catches your fancy. Amazing, amazing story. It's awesome to hear stories because this, this industry is unique. Everyone has their own journey. They collect their own things. And having this niche of in you in this hobby, like I said, is much appreciated by everyone. Integrity. I'm just proud to be a part of it. I'm delighted to see what it's become and I really appreciate the words. Thanks a lot. This will air on the Collector Nation, the full interactive version. The interactive version will be online and on all podcasts and YouTube in the next two weeks. We'll have links in the show notes if you didn't take them here. They'll be in the show notes too. Barry's company. Mizel, what's up brother? Appreciate you man. Ryan, Brian, thanks a lot. Really appreciate it. Appreciate it. Thanks for tuning in to the show. Be sure to follow us on your go to podcast platform and catch the full video episode over on YouTube. Visit us@collectornation.com and follow Ryan on Instagram at Ryan Alford. Now get out there and collect yours.