The Good, Bad, and Ugly of Being Known as a Buyer with Drake (@drakes_pc)

Foreign. What's going on, everybody? Welcome back. Stacking slabs, your hobby content alternative. Got a fun one today, bringing a friend back on the pod. My man Drake at Drake's PC. The topic of private sales and navigating private sales has been one that I've been interested in and I think a lot of you collectors out there have been interested in. I've seen questions on other content platforms, on Instagram, people trying to navigate private deals. So I wanted to bring Drake on, who has done many private deals, big private deals, and talk about the good, bad and ugly of being a known buyer in this hobby. I think you will get a lot of value from this conversation. Drake shares a ton of his experience and wisdom and buying Peyton Manning cards privately. And after we got done with this, I just wanted to give him a high five, man. He, he shared so much. And if you're a collector in this space, navigating, trying to buy big cards, this is the episode for you. If you want to show your support for stacking slabs, hit the follow button, tell a damn friend. Run on over to the Patreon group. We got Drake, Drake's PC on the pod. Let's get into it. All right, we have a good topic today, one that has been on my mind and I sense from today's guest, it's been on his mind at some level, as I've often called him the ultimate question asker. Whether it's on the football card podcast, the crossover, or something else, Drake is always asking questions. And so today I want to talk to Drake about the good, badly, bad, bad and the ugly of being a known buyer in the hobby. Because Drake, whether you like it or not, I feel like you are a known buyer. So I want to talk about some of your experiences today. And it's been a while we've talked privately, but the first time publicly in a while. First of all, welcome back. How are you? Right. I'm doing great. Thanks for having me back on. Yeah, I think I sent you something not too long ago. It was like the five year anniversary of our first time on the podcast. It's always neat going back and looking at your memories that pop up on social media, you know, cards that you acquired and, you know, most you still have some you don't have and just kind of remembering those stories and, you know, remembering those times on the podcast. So thanks for having me back on and excited to, excited to have this discussion today. Yeah. And I'm excited to see you at the national, kind of the annual trip. I feel like I Guess maybe like this is off the cuff a little bit, but you typically are a guy who is plotting early around deals before the show. Have you started to have those conversations around potential cards you might buy from someone else at the show, or is it still too early? Well, I've started having those conversations. Just there's a few folks I've been talking to and they're not going to be at the national. So I'm just kind of weighing my options now of like what's going to be my national, but not at the national pickup for this year, you know, because you, you kind of have to have at least one or at least I do. And so just trying to figure that out, but also keep in the back of my mind that, you know, you may stumble, stumble onto something at the national that you weren't expecting. So, yeah, I'm looking forward to it. It's hard to believe it's, it's next month now, so it's wild. And you've been on this show, as you alluded to a lot of different times over the course of the history of stacking slabs. And I, I would say you have evolved as a not only collector during that time period. I mean you, you, you always kind of have your lanes that you collected and you know what you like. But I would say you have maybe your level of aggress aggression on buying cards that you need for your collection has gone up as you've found your focus. And I think why I wanted to talk with you is because we've been talking a lot about the private market and I think I would classify you as a known buyer of specifically like really high end Peyton Manning cards. And so like, I want this conversation to dig into your experience and hopefully we can help some other collectors who are buyers who are trying to navigate kind of the private side. But maybe we start with maybe your, your kind of reputation and your perception of your reputation like as a collector. Has your reputation as a collector do you think changed over the years? Yeah, I think so. I mean, you know, when I first got back, know, really hardcore in the hobby in 2019, I was buying everything else and you know, what other people were telling you to buy and all that sort of stuff. But I realized it wasn't bringing me joy because I was just, I was thinking of it from the lens and what the content was telling me as you buy this card and it shows up in your mailbox and it goes up in value and you sell it and that whole sort of thing and that, that, that just Wasn't for me. I know it's for a lot of people still. You know, people like to flip cards and that's fine, but it's not for me. Like, I wanted, you know, to, to get cards of a player that I was attached to. And so I'm a very nostalgic person. And so. So Peyton Manning was that guy, right? He was a guy I collected in the late 90s and the early 2000s, was a fan of Helm even though I wasn't collecting him during his entire career. But no, whenever I got back into actively collect collecting him back in 2020, I was really just another collector looking for Peyton Manning cards. Right? I'm just another guy. But over time, as I consistently like bought, traded and shared my collection on Instagram, I think I created my Instagram account like late 2020 and people across the hobby started to recognize me as someone who is real serious about getting the high end manning pieces. And it kind of, it kind of kick started. It was funny, you know, sharing it from the football card podcast last week where he asked, you know, to share cards that have been in your collection for over three years. And you know, it was a 2012 Prism Gold that kickstarted it all. I think, I think once I got that, and we've, we talked about this on the podcast before, like once I got that, I mean, that was just the rocket ship to like, oh my gosh, this card is, you know, an amazing piece for Peyton and where can I find some other other amazing pieces? And I'll Never forget the 2013 and 2014 prism goal just sitting out there and I was able to get those like, bam, bam. So I got the 2012 through 2014 Prism Gold in just a couple months and I was like, man, this is easy. But I've learned that, you know, it's not as easy as that when it comes to acquiring those rare and scarce pieces. Yeah, I think I remember when you got those cards and thinking to myself, man, that seems very, very expensive, although amazing cards. And then it was like some of our other friends acquired the, some other Mannings in that kind of lane and the price went up the next year. And then I feel like the next year it was like, well, I list I missed my window on these, which tends to happen with some of these cards. But when you did, when did you start to notice maybe the people bringing cards directly to you? Was it a result of maybe you posting some of these high end Mannings? Like I remember in wrestling, we were in this. This was years ago. And we were spending pretty serious money on cards and maybe serious money that some people hadn't really seen before. And so I remember, like, you DM me and you'd be like, look at what has been brought to me today. Should I. For this price? But like, when did that moment happen when you realize, like, people started to bring cards directly to you? Yeah, I think. I think back, it was probably in that 20, 20 to 21 time frame, you know, where people kind of saw that I was buying those types of cards, you know, the. Important to the hobby, important to me kind of P. Manning cards, you know, when they became, you know, whether it was public or private. Right. And so that's when people started. Started coming to me because I. They saw me as a buyer of those cards and they saw me as a collector. Right. There were some people, other people and. And again, right. Wrong. Whatever that would buy Peyton. But they were also buying other stuff too. And so I think when people see someone who's buying a mixt players, they may be a little bit more hesitant to sell them a card because they're saying, well, what's the person's, you know, what is their intention behind buying that card? Right. Is this going to be like just another card for them or is this going to be the card for them because they are a collector of that player? And so I think people saw that, you know, for. From me, because I started doing the Manning Monday post, right? And so every Monday I was posting a P. A. A new Manning card for. For my collection. And so I think when people see that consistency with you, that's what makes them want. Want to bring those types of cards to you. So you think that. And I say this a lot, and maybe I just need you here to confirm what I say and you can deny it, but I've been on record of saying, post your damn cards. Because the more you post your cards, the more it creates kind of signals to other collectors that you might be a certain collector of a player and you might be a place someone wants to go sell a specific card and not have to worry about that card after the sale being kind of flipped around and entering kind of the. The flipper vortex. So, so do you think that, like, Manning Monday, for instance, created visibility to your page that you were not just someone who bought Peyton Manning cards, but you were someone who was like, likely stashing those Peyton Manning cards in your collection because you're a collector? Yeah, it's just like I. I said, I said just a minute ago, you know, consistency is what you need there. And I've actually been thinking about that lately because, you know, as cards get rarer and scarcer and harder to find that consistency of just like the routine of every Monday posting, something kind of goes away. And so you kind of get that urge of a collector of like, oh, shoot, like, I need to repost a card or I need to go find something just so I can post something. Right. But then you have to step back and kind of slow down a little bit and say, does this, you know, does this fit. Fit in my collection? But you know, just to answer your, your question, the more visible you are within your niche, whatever that is, whether it's, you know, football cards or Peyton Manning or like, you as being Colts collector or, you know, in wrestling cards or something like that, you know, the more likely people are to think of you when a significant card surfaces, you know, but like, conversely, conversely, and we'll probably talk about this. More visibility can also create opportunities for sellers to hang cards, you know, kind of over your head, which can be very, very frustrating. But it's nice to know, you know, I probably get a new DM once every couple weeks from a collector that says, hey, I saw that, you know, you collect Manning cards. You know, would you be interested? Or this or, hey, you know, I'm. I'm going to keep an eye out for you and so on and so forth. And so it's just nice to, to feel thought of. Right. Yeah, I want to get into maybe that flow of private opportunities. You said maybe once every week or so you'll get something. I guess when you get, you get those DMs, are they mostly cards that you aren't interested in, but might be of your subjects that you collect and you, it's just like a nice solid where you're just, you like, thank them for, for Sharon, but no thanks, like you're not interested or are you in fact getting like, at bats on a routine basis of cards that you need and you're highly interested, like, what's the ratio of like those messages coming in your inbox? I would say it like, today it's pretty rare that I get something that I'm like, you know, surprised by or like, oh my gosh, I've been looking for this card forever. You know, there's a lot of nice Peyton Manning cards that maybe a few years ago that I may have wanted in my collection and probably, you know, and probably would enhance, you know, if you're just an average collector's collection and things like that. But I feel like I've gotten so far down the road of, like, rare and scarce, and my list that have wants has gotten so very short. You know, finding those cards will be like finding a needle in a haystack. But unless you keep, you know, keep active and you keep consistent and you stay visible. Right. You certainly can lose that opportunity. And you never know the person that presents you with one card. You never want to just kind of shut them down or whatever, because, you know, the fact that they know that you're, in my case, a Peyton Manning collector, you know, you want to thank them and be pleasant with them and just say, hey, you know, here's kind of like, maybe this isn't the card, but here's kind of what I'm looking for, or, hey, if you happen to see this, let me know, and that sort of thing. And that's always helpful. So it's always great to just expand your network as much as possible, because you never know that while that person may not be bringing the card that you need, they may know somebody who has the card that you need or they may see somebody at a show. You know, it's all about multiplying yourself. Because I can only be one place at one time. I'm not a guy that goes to a show every weekend or something like that. I typically just go to the national once a year, maybe a regional show kind of here and there. So it's helpful to have eyes and ears kind of out in the wild that are helping you find those cards you're looking for. Maybe this is a good time to talk about some of your recent pickups, because I was curious on, like, what. What. What type of private message or opportunity, like, makes your ears perk up and you're interested in. I know it feels like it was, you know, several weeks ago, maybe a couple months ago, we were exchanging some text messages, and you started sharing with me some cards. And I said, okay, yep, these aren't cards you see every day. And, yep, I understand. These are definitely cards that. Based on your narrow list, and maybe these cards were out not even on the list because they were such unicorns, but maybe talk about some of those recent pickups and how that all had taken shape. Oh, trust me. I mean, these. These cards were on the list. There was no question. These cards were not on the list. So I'll just. I'll just share them real quick, and then we can kind of go. How does that sound? So, yeah, let's go. So the first is the 2014 Topstrong super fracture of Peyton. Right, that was one. And then you get into the 2014 Pops Finest super Fractor Hayden. And then we'll end with the 2013 prism black finite, which I know you're. You're a huge fan of, but. Yes. Yeah. So these are. These all happen to be with one. One seller. And. And I'll share the quick story about that. So I was on Facebook one day and there's a quite a few, like, Peyton Manning card Facebook groups. And I was just happened to scroll and you know how your feed, you never really know what's going to show up on your feedback feed. And there was an individual in there that said, hey, I'm. I. I have some rare Paint Manning cards. I'm not sure what the value is. You know, does anybody, you know, would anybody be able to help me? And something just nudged me like, hey, I should message this guy and just say, hey, like, I also collect rare Paint Manning cards. I'd be happy to help. You know, it didn't even pop in my head of like, oh, I wonder what he has. Like, maybe I can make a deal. I was just. I was felt compelled to be nice. And so we exchanged direct messages. And he said, yeah, like, I've been collecting Peyton, you know, since he was a rookie. I've got over like 4,000 Peyton Manning cards. And I'm like, oh, my gosh, you know, And I said, well, like, what are your best cards? And maybe we can start there and I can help. And he sends me a picture, and that was the three cards in the picture. And I was like, oh, my God. And so I just, you know, we had a long conversation again. This was back in like late November, early December, and we exchanged lots of dms. And he, you know, I had to kind of, you know, he. He was only on Facebook. He didn't have an Instagram, so I had to share with him some pictures from Instagram of my collection of like, here's who I am, here's who I collect. I shared the PSA magazine article that I swift. Like, I felt like I was validating yourself, just validating myself to the guy that had, you know, didn't know me from somebody else. Right. And so we. We finally talked and he finally agreed that he would sell them. We agreed on a number, and I said, for, you know, a number that price, let's meet up. And so we live probably eight and a half hours away from each other. And so I said, well, let's meet halfway at some point. And we weren't sure. When it was going to work out. And I really wasn't in a rush to get them other than I just wanted to get the cards. But it just so happened in spring break, we were in Hot Springs area there, and he was coming over to West Memphis, Arkansas, and I said, well, let's meet about halfway in between, just east of Little Rock. And so I met him in a restaurant parking lot and we did what looks like a drug deal to most in the parking lot, exchanging, you know, a cashier's check for some cards. And he was very happy and I was very happy. And he, you know, explained to me that he. He had gotten those cards back in, you know, 2013 and 2014 and what he had paid for them, which of course made my jaw drop and that whole sort of thing. But, you know, was just overjoyed to find stuff like that. So, you know, just to go back to the topic, there's, you know, there's few times that cards come to you, but I think to get the cards that are really rare and scarce and what you want, like, you've got to put in the work to find that type of stuff and make those connections. You can't just really sit back and wait on things to come to you because you're probably going to be disappointed more often than not. That's such good advice. And I think we, as a hobby typically are very reactive, Right. We all live and die by our save searches. And you think about it and you're like, a card pops up on your save searches and you get that dopamine rush and you feel pressure to buy the card. And you might buy the card and then realize, you know, weeks later, I have not really for this. It was just that moment I wanted to buy the card. And that that's like the normal operating of the hobby, not saying you can't land a card you love that way. We all have landed many cards we love, but it feels like that the unicorns, the cards you've never seen, typically are stashed away in some collector's collection who in this instance might not necessarily know how to navigate. And by being proactive, being in those communities, groups, and actually responding to help someone, it might lead to kind of a deal where you land three cards, which I would imagine are at the kind of the top echelon of your favorite manning cards in your collection. So, I don't know, like this going through an experience like that, does it make you think a little bit differently about, like, it's hard to, like, re. Orchestrate something like that again. But does it cause you to maybe think a little bit differently about like, how you spend your time trying to navigate the hobby and, and find cards that will likely sit next to those cards as being some of your favorite cards in your collection? Yeah, it does. I think, you know, I think, you know, it's, it's. I'm kind of one of those guys with every premier auction or elite auction or whatever fancy term that they use, right? I'm. I'm always kind of like stalking those and seeing what's up there and what's out there. But generally I found that, you know, through we'll just call it six years of hard research, I kind of know where most of the cards that I want are located at, or if I don't know who has it or whatever or something like that, then I know someone who knows someone. And so I think it's, it's just maintaining those connections and just knowing that, hey, you know, like, you may luck into something every once in a while like scrolling Facebook or you know, staying a part of those, those Facebook groups or some other form of social media just to make sure that, you know, you're staying engaged and you're seeing what's out there. Because there are, there are a lot of collectors that are active on social media or like, they may not even have social media. Right. One thing I learned a long time ago that I thought was interesting and I think I'll share is I was going to card shows. I was going to the Dallas card shows at the national and even some local shows and I would talk to dealers and I would say, hey, I'm looking for Peyton Manning. And like, almost all of them would say, hey, like I've got a couple, few ones. It's probably ones you have. But all my nice pieces I keep at home because I collect, right. And I, that always really stuck with me. And I know like the Wharf did a poll recently about, you know, the top collected football players and all that, and Peyton Manning finished number two. And people got all, you know, like, like wound up and been out of shape about that. But I think, I think it goes back to my own research that I did of like going to all these card shows and people weren't putting their nice payton out because they wanted to collect it. Like they wanted to hold on to him. Now, now that the market has kind of gone in the bull run and all that, you've seen a little bit more come out than you did back then. But, but, but I think it was Just, it was an interesting. I guess my own research kind of paid off. And there's certain things that I think of because I've done, you know, I'm not, I don't want to sound like conceited or anything like that, but I feel like I've done more research on him and his market and what people are doing than most. So I feel, I guess, qualified and educated to say that, like there's a lot of collectors out there that keep cards at home. And just because somebody else is transacted more frequently or has higher dollar sales or things like that doesn't necessarily equate to a stronger or larger collector base. So, yeah, the. I'd love to get your reaction to like Manning as a subject in card collecting because we haven't talked about this. I haven't talked with anyone about this, but if anyone has an opinion on this, I. It's probably you. But you know, when we first met, we bonded over Peyton Manning and cards and we met other people who like Manning cards like us, but wasn't like publicly there wasn't droves of people, you know, flocking, demanding cards. It. It felt very small. And through this bull run, it feels like there has been a lot more outside interest, a lot more people classifying themselves as man and collectors. And I'm not here to judge if they were or not or if it's based on prices or whatever. But I would love you as someone who every day, for as long as it's been, for as long as I've known you, you have, I'm sure, done some sort of research. You've certainly done some sort of safe search checking you. You've evaluated Manning every day for a very, very long time. Like, what is your observation on his interest from the hobby and how you would classify the individuals who are trying to obtain his cards right now. It's interesting. It certainly is increased, right. Since six years ago, there's a lot more people that are interested in him. And you know, it was like way back when people would talk about how he's, he's undervalued, right? Undervalued compared to. Distill a line from our friend Chris, you know, compared to the rest of the hobby. But you never really saw money flowing into him like you would think it would. It's like, well, if this guy's undervalued, then go buy his cards and then the. When supply dries up, coupled with increased demand, the value is going to go up. But you never really saw that happen. And I think you're starting to see that a little bit more now. But I. But I still also think there's a lot of prospecting that goes on in the hobby as well, where people want to get into the more active and modern players and things like that, because they can watch them and can flip. It can kind of go up and down. But. But I've noticed war that when, you know, these rare and scarce P. Manning cards come to market, they're getting snatched up. And with a few rare exceptions, like there's a shield that sold that's been flipped around between a few different guys lately, and that. That gets popped up and, you know, that whole sort of thing. But it's like these cards disappear and you don't see them again for like a, you know, large number of years. Whereas with other players, I feel like, you know, they go into the premier auction and then it sells, and then, you know, three to six months later, you see it back in a premier auction, let's just say. And so it's just. It's interesting how the cards disappear, and you just feel like there's more collectors that are coming out of the woodwork and folks that are willing to pay, you know, these big prices for his cards, which, you know, in my opinion, they're very strong prices. But when you look at it, at the end of the day, there's still not a lot of manning cards that are over six figures, you know, which is great for me because I want to keep collecting him. And, you know, I. I like to win an auction as much as the rest, you know, as much as the next person. So, yeah, it's an interesting thing. And just knowing in the back of my head that Peyton is also collecting his own cards is kind of cool. Just hope we're not competing for the same cards. It's bound to happen, or have already happened there. Drake. I want to talk about maybe the good, the bad and the ugly about being. Being a known buyer in the private market. We'll start with the good. What are maybe some of the biggest advantages you've seen with operating in the private market? Well, certainly it's kind of two things I think about, right? It's. It's access and timing. Right. Because you often get a chance to buy cards before the rest of the hobby even knows that they're available. Right. So we go back to these three cards that I just shared. Right. Just a minute ago. Right. No one knew that they were available. When I talked to the owner, they weren't available. Right. But if this guy had thrown them straight to ebay or whatever. Right. Then everybody knows they're out there. He's getting hammered with dms, with folks getting to sell. And then I have to compete with a whole bunch of people, whether they're a collector or flipper or something like that, to try and buy these cards that I just want for my collection. Like, I'm not trying to buy them to make money off of them. Sure, if I sell them for more one day, that's great. Right? But that's not. That's not my. Why. For. For. For wanting the cards. And so I really think the access and timing piece is probably the two biggest, biggest advantages of working in the private market. I. It's hard. You're. You've got a wonderful collection of Peyton Manning cards. Anyone who knows you or follows you understands that. And as I'm thinking about not all of them, but I'm thinking about some of your bigger manning cards. Like, would you say what percent. Obviously, private deals are harder to accomplish because there's so much ambiguity around it and timing. How would you. Would you say if you looked at your cards and you made like, the pie chart, like, and had to decide, like, where these cards came from? Like, what. What is the ratio between maybe private and public? Because I know you've acquired quite a bit of really good cards privately. Yeah, I would say probably like 70, 30 private to public. Right. You know, it's interesting, as I think about it, and I like to go through my Instagram page a lot and just look at cards I've had for a while or open up the case and think about it, you know, and, but, but, but several of my cards came from collectors who contacted me directly. Like, a few that come to mind are the 98PMG PSA 9, most of the super fractures, all of the prison black finites that I own came, you know, from private relationships. The 24 karat gold Ricky card PSA 9,05 and 06 finest gold X fractures. The credentials future out of seven PSA nine. I mean, like, more than I thought now that you're saying there all. No. And there's. There's like, so many more, Brett. Like, like, and. And I thought, like, maybe someday I should write a book, because that's my favorite part of the car is going through and not looking at a card and saying, like, wow, this is a cool card. Or, oh, you know, like, what is this card worth? I can remember the details about who, who, like, who had the card before me, Maybe who had it before them. Like, what the story was like, the whole story with the acquisition, the process, the dms, you know, did I meet, meet them in person? Was it a card that was shipped? You know, was it a card that was funded or whatever? And that, to me, as I've stated before on your podcast and some others, like, I value relationships over transactions and I love the story of acquiring a card and knowing who owned it previously, knowing the story of the card. And I just think it's cool. Like they took care for it, took care of it for a while, and now it's my turn to take care of it for hopefully a long while. Do you, I love that. Drake. Do you, do you feel like when you are given the opportunity at an app, bad at a card and it's a card you need. I know, like on the bad side, we're going to talk about, like people, you know, putting you, bidding you over because they have the leverage and try to make you pay more. But like, if it's from a trusted person and they're giving you an at bat at a card, doesn't it make it sting a little less that the money you're paying to that person? Like, no matter if it's more than you expected or not, Like, I've always found, like getting the opportunity, it's like if it's someone I know and trust and like, and they're giving me an opportunity at bat, I almost, like, don't even question the price because I feel like, because they're giving me the opportunity and because I feel like they're not screwing me over. Like nine times out of 10, I, like, don't even negotiate. You say, yeah, thank you so much for giving me access and it'll get done. But like, what's your experience with that when you're getting those amazing cards in your dm? Yeah, it's great. I mean, I just love the aspect, like I said before, there's a more conversation and like, relationship involved. Right. You know, and it's, it feels good just knowing you're working with another collector and you kind of understand where they're coming from. Maybe, maybe from a price point. Right. You know, you're trying to agree on price and you're trying to, you know, know, understand where they're at, where you're at, you know, and that whole sort of thing. And I, and I just, I love that whole aspect and conversation piece back and forth, trying to work out a deal where you're both happy, right? In, in an auction, right. You get the dopamine rush and the adrenaline of, you know, ready to hit that, you know, last second bid or maybe if it's a premier auction, is it a marathon of see who falls asleep last to win the auction, you know, that sort of thing. But you know, it's just, it's great when you're dealing with another collector versus a bunch of other bidders who you don't know what their intention is with the card. Right. And, and these cards are, have turned into assets and people use them for capital and you know, and that's fine and dandy or whatever but you just don't know what's going on in an auction. Right. There's, there could be shill bidding going on, there could be non payers, there could be something like that. When you're dealing with another collector, it's just direct, direct to direct. There's really no countdown clock or timing or something like that. It's just whenever the two sides can agree on a deal that makes sense for the both of them. And I think that's, that's great and that's why I value relationships over transactions. Let's talk about maybe the bad or some of the challenges. I think, I just think about the fact that you were very public talking about your private deal of the 98 essential credentials future Manning out of seven. That story was told here and elsewhere. Private deal and then the deal was documented and minted in card ladder as a public sales. And it's very well known that that was a six figure sale. When you get associated with someone who is willing to spend or consolidate into a six figure card. I just think about all of the sellers drooling when they see Manning cards because they know they've got someone who potentially will pay big money for it. So there's that perception there. So, oh, Drake bought a six figure card like he's going to, I'm going to be able to get in, squeeze any penny out of him if I've got a card that he needs. Maybe talk about some of those challenges that you have seen since you have been known to be a bigger spender when it's on a Manning card that you need in your collection. Yeah, I think you kind of hit the, you know, hit the answer a little bit in the question. But like people assume you're interested in it in every Peyton Manning card and so they'll bring you any card and then you'll ask price and they'll tell you this price, it's way higher than what the market value should be and it may not even be something that I'm interested in. And so, you know, I think they just. People start to assume that you want every card, and then when you don't want the car, you're not that interested in it. Like, they're confused. You're like, but you're a Peyton Manning collector. Like, you should want his car, right? I'm going, well, maybe at one point in my life I did, but I. I got to where I valued, like, quality over quantity and. And. And wanting to stay married and not just have a huge house full of cards, but I had to kind of consolidate and narrow down my focus a little bit. So that's kind of the. The first thing. And, you know, the second thing is, is. Is. Is people assume that budget is. Is not a factor, right? They just assume, well, you know, if he spent six figures on that, then he's got more six figures to spend, you know, and maybe I could if I wanted to, right? But budget for me is a factor, right? If you. If you don't believe me, just ask my wife. Budget's a factor. Like, every purchase before I do, I. I make sure to run a buyer and just say, hey, here's the cards. Here's, you know, here's what I'm spending. You know, just want to make sure that you're okay with it, right? And so I think it's important. Important to understand that is, like, people, you know, money flies around the hobby all the time, right? You can see YouTube videos at shows, and people, you know, drop in huge stacks of cash on the table and all that kind of stuff. And I'll tell you, that's like the 0.1% of the hobby. When you look at the whole hobby as a whole, that. That happens, right? And sometimes you even question if that's. If that's real or not, too. And so I think you just have to take that into account and just know that while people may spend big money on cards, that budget still is a factor. And. Or. Or at least it's a factor for me. So my impression, you just talked about your budgeting and having limitations and running it through your quality checks, I. E. Wife. Which is a very important trait to have as a collector who's spending money, big money on cards. Do, I guess, like, you are someone who has been buying big cards, but you're. You're not just buying because you have endless stacks of cash and not doing the work. Like, you're. You're. You're methodically understanding the values or perceived values, and you probably know them better than most because it's the lane in the hobby you're spending a majority of your time. So you're making yourself known as a visible high end Peyton Manning collector. But I would imagine that creates unrealistic expectations for the sellers who are trying to approach you with cards. Like, it's fun for me sometimes because you'll text me and be like, you won't believe like this. And I get a kick out of it because I'm just like, yeah, this is what happens. You have to deal with some crap in order to like land those three, you know, amazing manning cards. But maybe like, I don't know, like those unrealistic seller expectations. Like, how do you navigate those? You, you mentioned a little bit like someone will come to you with like a crazy price. But like, how do you, how do you like, do like navigate those in a way that you're not like being disrespectful or potentially burning a bridge, but you're maybe educating the seller that, or telling them in a subtle way that they're, they're crazy and you're not playing ball. Like that. Yeah. You know, the first thing we hit on this a little bit is like some sellers assume that because you're a known buyer that you're automatically going to pay a premium. They're like, well, he paid a premium for this other car and so he's probably going to pay a premium for this card. So I'm going to try to squeeze every nickel that I can out of him. Right. And so I think, you know, sometimes, and sometimes you're talking to like a brick wall, but sometimes it's trying to educate folks on what they have. And like, here's where I'm at on my offer and here's why I think it's fair, you know, And I try like, like I'm a data driven person. That's what I do in my career. That's, I'm just, it's the way I think I use data. And some people just use feel like, well, I like, screw your data. Screw what car lotter says. Like, I feel like this card is worth this. And I'm like, I'm sorry, I, I don't. As much as I want this card, like, I'm not your guy, you know, and so it's, it is funny on that type of stuff where, you know, when you tell people that and you wait it out. I've had some instances where people come back around and they're like, hey, would you still pay such and such. Right. Because they they tried to shop it around and. And they. They come back to me and they're like, well, shoot. Well, Drake. Drake will pay me more than anyone else will. And I'm like, well, that's what I was trying to tell you on the front end. And so it's just. It's getting people to understand that, you know, and if I. And if I happen to miss out on a card for whatever reason, I just always tell myself that it happened for a reason and something better is just around the corner. And that's actually some advice I've tried to share with some friends, you know, across the hobby, because some people will get disappointed that a card on their ebay watch list, maybe they were saving up for it, disappeared year, or we're trying to work out a deal with a seller and didn't work out, or they thought they had put in this huge max bid for a card that was in an auction and they lost out on it. And I just. I have to go back to him. And I'm saying, like, that happened for a reason. Right? Something better is around the corner. And so just be patient and see, you know, and that will come to pass. Right? All things happen for a reason. I think that's true in any facet of life to remember that. So, you know, and like, I want to say 9 times out of 10, but it's probably 10 times out of 10, something better comes along. And there was a reason that you lost out on that car, lost out on the auction, because there was something better that was coming along. So that's why it's important to stay patient and not get frustrated and not do what I used to do, which is you feel like you have to get that, you know, reactive buy. You're like, I lost it on the card, so I got to just go buy something just to scratch that. It's. You don't want to do that. Are there any warning signs that you've seen that you could potentially share when you realize that maybe a deal isn't being approached in good faith? Anything that you've experienced over the years of private. Doing private deals? Yeah, I would say a couple of them are like, you know, the artificial sense of urgency. Right. It's like, hey, man, I want to offer this to you, but I want to let you know that I'm going to offer it to somebody else, or if you don't want it, I'm going to send it to auction this afternoon. Right. Or like that. That sort of thing where they're bringing you terms that Sort of thing. Or, you know, you make an offer and then they say, hey, you know, I've got a higher offer, can you match it? Right. And you wonder if it's bogus or not or whatever. So it's just, it's all that stuff trying to upsell you and that whole sort of thing. If they don't want to provide details of those types of offers. Because sometimes I've asked them like, hey, we'll, we'll prove it, right? And they're like, well, the person asked me not to share. They wanted to keep it private. Right. You know, and that sort of thing, it's like, and then you get folks that, you know, come into like changing terms of, you know, they're like, well, you know, let me sell you this, you know, but then I don't want to sell it. And they're just kind of, I'm trying to think of a good example, but just where they, you know, they, they kind of go back and forth on the card and you know, like they won't respond to DMS or something like that. That's, that's, that's just a few things that come to mind where you're just going like, you know, is this really a person that I want to do business with? Right. Like I told you, I'm a relationship type person. And when I feel like somebody is way too focused on the transaction, it's just a turn off to me. Yeah, I think that the, the individual, like one thing I would suggest to any sellers, anybody who's buying cards and spending thousands of dollars on cards, like there's a lot of cards, no matter what you collect, that are coming your way regularly, our way regularly. And to me, like the, the most important quality, maybe even more important than the card is like just being easy to do business with. Like, I love it when a, sell a seller, a dealer, someone who's making money off of selling cards for a living. I love it when there's a card that pops up that they have and I've done business with them before and I know what to expect and I know the negotiation, how it typically goes and it's, it's done and I'm able to get the card, pay them and it's over with. But then we've all been on the other side of it where we have been a part of a terrible negotiation and we have a certain perception based on what we've seen these, this person done in the past. And it's a small, it feels like a smaller community than it is we get feedback everywhere. And so I don't know about you, man, but like, no matter what, like no matter how great the card is, no matter how bad I need it, I have, I can probably. I've got a list of people on the, on the list that no matter what, I will not do business with because they've either wronged me in the past, they've done something to someone else I know, or I just don't like how they operate because I don't want to waste my time getting into that rabbit hole of changing terms and this and that. So, like, do you, do you feel that way? Like you have maybe a list of people that. Whether I've screwed you in the past that you just like, no matter what, like, you're just like, I don't have any intention to do business with them again because I just don't want to go through that. Yes, no, for sure. And the whole time you're talking about Brad, I can't get the Chris Jericho. You just made the list. And so, yeah, there's people that just turn you off and you're like, you know, this person. I just don't want to do, do business with them because of whatever reason. And it doesn't matter. You know, it's, it's tough to say, right, because you say it doesn't matter. But it's like, gosh, what if one day they pulled out, you know, the, you know, the, the 2006 finest super fracture and we're like, would you be interested in that? Do you go back on your I'm not going to do business with this guy sort of thing? So I think it, it really does just depend on the level of, you know, if they, if, you know, if they said they were going to send you a card and didn't send it and took your money or something like that, you know, that's just a non starter. There's just, there's, there's no business for that. But if it was just a troubled transaction, let's we'll say, but everything ended up like working out in the end and that's probably okay. But yeah, there's just, there's some people, you know, that are out there that are just trying to, you know, nickel and dime you and squeeze everything out of you and that just, it just makes you reluctant to want to even have a relationship with. Yeah. I'll also say, like, inversely, there has been people who other people have or their perception of that individual has been like, they're tough to do business with they're just a flipper or whatever. And then I've engaged with them on a deal and it's been very, very pleasant. So I think it's like there's a part of it of like experiencing each individual yourself and trying to figure out if that type of operating is for you or not. But just wanted to call that out. I want to get into maybe, just maybe skipping ahead a little bit on the agenda, just managing reputation. Do you think, based on your experience, that collectors should intentionally build a reputation as a buyer? Do you think, like, how you've done it has been important to getting kind of the cards that you might not have known existed or where they existed? Yeah, I mean, I think it's important, but I think you should build a reputation for being trustworthy and consistent. Right. The buyer, whole reputation part kind of follows that naturally. So you want to be consistent in there. They want you to, you know, like, sellers want to know that, you know, like, people can trust you and that if you're going to acquire cards, like, what your intentions are with them and it's not going to show up on an auction block or on an Instagram story or something like that the next week. So, you know, I think it's important to, you know, build that reputation and then that buyer piece will just kind of follow after that. If you just build it as a buyer first and all you are is just, you know, buying, buying, buying, buying, and then you're selling, selling, selling. That's not the reputation. I think you should want to have this, you know, as a collector, or at least that's not the reputation that I want as a collector. What misconceptions do you think people have about collectors who are spending a lot of money and buying significant cards? I would say people just assume that they buy everything they see. Right. You know, most serious collectors are very, very selective, you know, And I also think the other misconception, like we talked previously, is that, you know, people who buy significant cards have endless amounts of money. Right. Which is not the case with me, at least, or that they're only into buying significant cards of like, oh, the only reason Drake wanted that 2013 prison black finite is because he wants to. He wants to sell it someday and retire and things like that. And, you know, gosh, if I'm able to do that, that'd be awesome. Right? But that's not. That's not why. That's not why. That's not my why. Right. And so I think, you know, it's just important for people to understand people's why they want those significant type cards. And I think everybody has a different reason, and there's not a wrong reason, but I think it's just understanding, at least from my perspective, like, why I want significant in cards. Right. So if I, if I'm sitting there and I'm only after super fractures, like, I'm not buying them because I'm like, oh, I hope I can make money off of them someday. I'm in my mind thinking, like, gosh, I've already got, you know, this many super fractures. If I get, you know, one, like, one more than I could complete the Broncos finest super fracture run. And wow, now after that, it would be great to kind of start going down that corner Colts super fracture and try to get that. And so it's just, you know, it's understanding that that's. That becomes your why and why that is, which is great. But then also people who hold those cards, as we talked about before, and the bad and the ugly, they can hold those kind of over your head and say, hey, I've got this and you want this. And if you really want this card to complete that run you're talking about, you're going to have to pony up. And that. That can be difficult sometimes, maybe. As we're rounding the corner on this chat, Drake, what have you doing private deals taught you about collecting? Certainly, you know, the hobby we talk about all the time, it's about cards, but to me, it's all about the people. Right. And, you know, cards matter a lot, but the relationships to me are, you know, what the best opportunities lie. And because of this, I've learned that many of the best cards are hidden collections that aren't public. And then many of the collectors I've gotten cards from have held them through several bull market cycles. Right. Like the guy I got the three cards from, there had been a bunch of bull market cycles. There were opportunities for him to sell and he didn't. He just wanted to hang on to the cards because he loved the cards. And so I think, I think that tells me that the cards that I've gotten the private deals from are largely in the hands of, you know, true collectors who value the cards over money. And I respect that so very much. All right, final one to close this out. Drake, just a piece of advice you'd give to anyone out there who is in the middle of a private deal thinking about doing more private deals. Private deal. Curious. Like what, what sort of feedback do you have? Yeah, I would just say, you know, the Best collectors don't buy every great card that they see, right? They position themselves through relationships, through making the right financial decisions, whether it's saving money, you know, selling cards to consolidate, you know, waiting, that sort of thing so that you're ready when the right card appears. And so I think that's just, it's so important to always be ready. You hear it a lot. And it's like, what does being ready look, look like? It doesn't mean that you have to have this bag of cash in the corner of your office just ready to walk out the door and make a deal. It's just when, when a card comes along that you, you know, that you want to potentially acquire, you have to be ready in your mind to say, okay, does this card fit in my collection? Like, where would it rank in my collection? And then what would I, you know, if I'm not drawing from my checking account and wanting to keep my entire collection, what would have to replace this card in my collection? And then just say, okay, I think this card, or I know this card is going to cost this much, you know, is it worth Giving up these 2, 3, 4, 5, whatever number of cards to acquire that? And if it is, then you make the decision. And I think that's just the part of being ready, you know, when the right card appears, you can follow him at Drake's Underscore. PC Drake, it was great to have you back in the saddle. Tons of wisdom. We'll do it again in a shorter time frame than we did between the last two, I can promise you that. Sounds great, Brett. Thanks for having me on. Always enjoy catching up with Drake. One of my favorite conversations I've had with him. I think he brought a lot of great insight and information on private market and being a known buyer in this space and how to navigate. Make sure you go follow him@drake's PC. Appreciate all your support for the Stacking Slabs Network. Tell a damn friend. Take care. Talk to you soon. Me.