The Grading Industry Needs Change + GCC Makes Its Case + Collectors React

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So grab a burrito, put your kids in the garage, call up your stepdad and enjoy the About Last Night podcast on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. Michael Jordan Sports cards is a lifestyle Sports cards and we live now Jeremy Lee in the building and every guest that you ever needed Sports cards after hours keep the hobby heated Updates homie talk like you never seen it Sports cards live ain't no could ever beat it Sports cards is a lifestyle Sports cards and we live now welcome to another episode of Sports Cards Live with your host, Jeremy Lee. I don't know much about AI and and grading. I know I have some insights into what's hat what happens or what what happened over a tag I say happened because I haven't been in their office in a couple years now and you know, I'm not as as in in con in as much contact with them as I was for their first couple of years. So I'm not really keeping up with what's going on in the, in the, you know, machine learning, AI computer grading area. But I do think that regardless of where it goes, there still needs to be somebody laying eyes on the product before it leaves the building saying, you know, just verifying that the card that the grade makes sense for the way the card looks and you cannot do that in six seconds. I don't know how long it takes, but you need, you need to be able to actually look at the card. So. But I will tell you that, you know, tag was sort of first out of the gate with consistent grading. Not perfect, but consistent grading and TCG open accept them with with arms wide open. The sports card hobby shunned Them, resisted them. You know, there are content creators who actively kind of lobby against them. And so, you know, sports card content creator. So I don't know. I don't know that the sports card hobby wants that. I know I do. I want consistency, I want reliability. I want, want to know that the card I'm buying can be graded the same grade every time it goes back in for grading. PSA can't do that. Human grading can't do that. TAG can do that better than anybody can, and maybe that's even improvable still. But the sports card hobby seems to rather like to play roulette. We. There's so much talk about gambling in our hobby and how bad it is, yet everyone who sends cards in for grading is, is taking a gamble when you're sending them in to the human slabbing companies, I think. But David, you had your finger up. And then we'll go back to Chad. Yeah, yeah. So I know you've said that many times that the sports cards did not really welcome tag. Do you think that it was just a little before its time, now that PSA has kind of run its course and PSA has gobbled up a couple of their competitors? You know, it was a lot easier when you could go to SGC or Beckett or things like that. But now that we're all under the same umbrella and we're kind of hearing a little bit more frustration with psa, what do you think of TAG came out now instead of a few years ago? You think that they would have been embraced a little bit more? Yeah, yeah. They might have been a little bit early, and they were early anyway. Right. Their technology wasn't scalable when they did launch, but, you know, the, the, the industry was where it was at. It felt like, you know, better get out there now. I guess they didn't know that there would be a second bull run coming a few years later being right now. So. But hey, hindsight's 2020 and you never know, but maybe eventually, you know, listen, who knows what will come of that or where if TAG is just going to be a TCG company. Well, great. They're, they're running it at max capacity anyway. They're running three shifts. They've doubled their floor space. They're doing, they're doing good things over there, but they still, they still can't meet the demand. The hobby is growing faster than grading companies can, can evolve and scale up. And that's why I want to. Let's talk about what Chad is up to now, because we talked about error rate, which brought us to this. There's the other topic, the other thread there, which was new solutions. I want to give Chad an opportunity, guys, to introduce, if you don't know yet what GCC is because I have some thoughts on this and this might be, I'm not going to say it's going to solve all the problems of sports cards and grading authentication or TCG for that matter, but it might be an all. Well, Chad, why don't you tell us. So don't just talk about what, what GCC is. Tell us about the, the catalyst moment when you, the light bulb moment you had, Chad, when you're like, I want to go do this and here's what it's going to be and how did it all come, how did this thing, how was this thing born out of your brain or your team's brain? Yeah, this is a good segue because when you talk about the inconsistency or the, the how grades come together at 8, 9 and it can be very subjective and you don't know what you're getting. You, you just basically finding out that you didn't get a 10 and then it falls into this off the cliff value and you don't know what to do. So instead of locking the cards in at 7, 8, 9 when they don't get a 10 because you need the 10, we know what they do, what David was talking about earlier, they go to great levels. So after that instead of handcuffing them with grades, especially if it falls below a 9, where you could resubmit it and it could get a nine or those types of things can happen, you want the card to do the selling. So that's why we have the ranges. And when you also combine that with collectors don't have the money to spend when they're trying to flip cards, when they spend money with an encapsulation company and they don't achieve the 10, they've lost that money. So you need a middle level product that's providing that. Now you couple that with people need cards prepared. There's a lot of people out there that might try to package their cards and then all of a sudden I got a lower grade because I mishandled it in the penny sleeve or whatnot and all those things. So this product, what it does is it offers a solution in the middle of, you know, preparing your card and getting it ready. And then when you get that pre grade, you know, this isn't to pre grade, what PSA is going to call it. That's not what we're doing. We're pre grading it in a range for you to then sell it, market it, take it to another dealer, for example. I thought a lot about how people go to shows and they want to present them to dealers. And I've seen both sides. A dealer doesn't have any time to look through raw cards that they cannot tell what's going on with them. They need some kind of idea of where those conditions are. The collector does not have the money to spend everything they need to spend to get those into maybe locked in eights where they just lost the value. So that intermediate product that didn't exist before was a pre grade, if you will, to not lock in a number because we think we know the number. We all know we could come up with a different number here and there. Except when it gets to the exact example you just showed where we know that's, that's not Jim Mint. But when it comes to the rest of that, let's say we have a card that us three all have two eights and a nine. The value of that card should fall where we, we negotiate in between the eight and the nine. Not at the bottom of an eight because it's locked in an eight holder or not at the top of a nine because I'm selling it and I'm not moving. You see, negotiations happen all the time and trading with cards all the time where they, they don't sell it 100%. And the grade, the, the buyer and seller may not always agree on that, but they can agree that it's in a general area that is productive and, and represents well on the market. So now you need behind that, you need reputation. There's a lot of good reputations out there that take too much of their time to explain. This card is, is worth your time, it's in good condition, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. I need to move on to my next sale. Well, that's a raw card because I can't, I know it's not a 10 I can see, but I'm not going to grade it. So it's going to sit over here in a raw pile. And it really doesn't move because you can't sell it for where you want it to. So you need that certified with something reputable that you can verify online as well, that you can't just move in and out of other cardholders, things like that that then can now go to the secondary market, whether it's ebay, whatnot, or let's say a dealer that wants to move this into their model and send it on for encapsulation because they have due to volume. You'll see this on grading. Some people can grade more cards because they have a system that grades more in general versus I've only got a handful and this is one of them so I can't afford to do that. So you have cards that have a value that it's not low to a lot of people in this industry. We have a lot of people that, that buy and sell on card levels that are a few hundred dollars or more. But you also have a lot of people that buy and sell cards that are less than that and they don't have a vessel because if they're not a 10, they, they lose their value and they fall into the raw market. Where you see a lot of that on ebay and where you're scrolling there's nothing to help it. So what people need is they need confidence. And confidence adds value. And that's where we bring the reputation, the certification, the care, the security of all of those things that go into those cards that fit that pocket. And then what it also can do is alleviate the encapsulation. Companies that are forced to do cards that don't fit their model, they millions of cards. That's great. But now if we could move like I say, the semis outside these lanes so we can get everything moving smoothly, those can now move in those lanes with the products that are there for them. And now everything moves together and we're not all waiting, you know, for two seasons to pass by before you get things, get things back because they represent a different level and the tier that's cut off is the value tier. So you know, we know where the problem exists. It's right in that pocket of value where you don't have another solution so you can go to another encapsulation company, things like that. But you're running into the same types of fees. Fees I guess lots there. Thanks Chad. Lots of questions in the chat. I'm seeing them guys. Thank you to the chat. David, I'm sure you have a few comments too and I'm and questions and I definitely want to. Want to get to you. We'll go to you before the chat David. But one thing I want to, I want to say Chad, it's so just to sort of summarize if I may, what what GCC is endeavoring to do. Basically another condition opinion to put your for. For your cards coming from a reputable source being you and your team with your background within, under the CCG umbrella in, in grading and authentication. And it seems to me like what you're offering, it reminds me of the raw grade service that Beckett offers or used to offer at card shows. It's because I'm assuming we're talking about a semi rigid holder, like what are they called again? The, the semi, the very popular semi, semi rigids in a. A sleeve and a semi rigid with a GCC sticker sealing this thing in with a, with a. A grade assigned on that, on that label. Is that the GCC product right there? No. Because there's not another step. When you have another step of encapsulation. To me, that middle step of pre grade, it doesn't make as much sense. But, but you, you stop short of that final step. So, so if my, my comment was that it reminds me of the raw slab service or the, the raw grade service by Beckett, which is a middle step because you can then, if you don't walk away from their booth, you can be guaranteed that grade with them if you give it back to them. You are, you are not doing hard slapping. You are only doing that raw grade sort of, sort of service level. And, and then people can then take it to any grading company and hope for the best. But really what you're saying is you can pay 80 bucks to PSA, wait, you know, six to 24 months for your cards to come back and see what happens in the meantime, or you can use our service or somebody else for that matter. You can. We are offering a service that is going to put a condition assessment on your card that should then have some value in the marketplace because it's coming from a reputable source. Being GCC is that. Did I get anything wrong there? If I did, please correct. Please click please update. No, nothing's incorrect. The only difference is, is we're not locking any numeric grade because they're so subjective. So it can vary. And that's what you don't want to do to customers is say we've locked this into an eight. Well, it could be a nine and those values are different. So if it's on the fence, 8, 9, and we see how subjective they are, that's where you want that range to represent that with strength because that's where everybody's kind of agreeing but disagreeing. So you could put it in an eight and say this is going to move to an eight, or you could say this is going to be a GCC gold and now you're buying and selling with more flexibility and better opportunity. Following that, no numbers. Correct? Correct. Oh no numbers guys. No numbers on the label. What are the, what are the, what are the different options for assessment? Gold. Anything else? Yeah, you see a black gym which is, which is your gym mint 9.5 or 10. So that's going to be the equivalent of gym Mint. Gold is seven plus green is four through six. So your vintage silver is one through three. You see breaks at three and four. You see those breaks happen but you also see that same agree but disagree in that area where you don't want those pricings, the prices to get locked in where people are agreeing and then they can't get a deal done because no, I see that differently. So they see it the same but then they see it differently and things get held up. So you want to put that strength back in the card rather than the label. And you see that often in our industry people buy the label, not the card. So like that card you just had with those gentlemen, if you buy that label you bought a 10 and you. It doesn't represent the card. If you buy the card no one's buying that card. So we keep, we want the focus to be on that card where it's the most subjective. But also understand that mint level is that gem or gem Mint level is you can't touch it. Okay, appreciate that Is. Was this idea inspired at all by the Mike Baker service which is doing well. They do hard slapping as well but they offer the. The silver, gold and black label. Is that. Do you consider GCC to be competing with. With the Mike Baker kind of pre now that he's doing hard slabs but with, with that service the, the. Which is. I know it's different but do you maybe you can't say you would because you did because they were simply giving an opinion on an existing hard slabbed hard graded card. You are doing more of this raw condition review without putting a number on it giving a. A color code for how well the card presents. I suppose what is there anybody that you consider to be competition? David, I promise we're going to you after this one. I would say the competition becomes the encapsulation companies when the value of the card is at that level that we're looking to really help add the most value and cost effectiveness. So we were willing to understand you wouldn't put a card of very high value in a semi rigid holder as your end product or end stage. What you may do is you may have a collection where you want this looked at because you're a dealer and you don't have time. So you want these things selected ready to go so that you can then send them on. You may be a collector like that, but we want, we want to focus on those cards that represent that value pocket so that we can add value to those because they don't have an entry point into any market. They just fall off the market raw. So where we're competing is where encapsulation companies are grading cards that are in these lower value pockets. So we're competing there, I would say, but we want to, we're in more of that preparation with reputable certification and verification of your, your cards. So when they move to the next level, they're represented by something that's. And someone who's been in the industry and understands all the moving parts and what goes with it so that you can trust and have the confidence behind all those. Okay, it's an. Yeah, listen, you are venturing into somewhat new territory, I would say, right now. And how have you, how has GCC been. No, for. I promised David Chase twice. Let's go to David Chase. And then, and then my question is going to be how has GCC been received so far in the marketplace that you've been talking to? But David, over to you, please. All right, I, I've been kind of reading the chat at the same time, and I'm trying, I'm trying to make this kind of make sense to everybody as I'm listening to this. So I'm kind of thinking, you know, a vintage card, that's a big range, right? 1 to 3, 4 to 6, right? Like, that's a very big difference in pricing between those kind of grades. And then I'm thinking you're right, it's probably not for the more expensive cards. So maybe what this is really for is like a dealer that buys a huge collection of like 2000 cards where the, the, the gem mint is going to give it a high upgrade. So Maybe you have 2000 cards that you can't look up, you know, very closely and you want to send all 2000 cards to your service to see if any of them are going to possibly be a gem mint without them having to do the work. Is that kind of where your, your bread and butter is? Absolutely helps dealers in that respect because you see how many cards you want to move and you. That's why we don't charge or we don't grade everything. We, we only select the things that have the value, the cards that have the value that will make sense and move on in the market. We're not just going to clog you up and mess up your bottom line. So that's the thing we want you spending, we want dealers focused on dealer on deals, moving cars to collectors and making people happy. So when they have things they have to spend a lot of time on that, take them away from that and then raise prices on the other end for their collectors, then we want to help with that. So this is, this is a great solution to do that where they don't end up spending a lot of money. You're spending close to $5 per card and then it's ready to go. So if you wanted to sell it in your shop or online, you can do that. It's not just raw and then where your collectors are now thinking, well, how do I know that's the card I bought? How do I know this? How do I know that? There's a lot of skepticism out there that we understand people deal with and we want to just understand how that all works. So any cards that we can help, we want to help. We also understand there might be cards that don't move well. So we're not going to penalize the customers or the dealers. But you're exactly right, David. And, and in that same point, like if you're just putting a sticker over a semi rigid, like, you know, just like a Mike Baker sticker can be, some people think can maybe be taken off and put on another card, how do you prevent that from happening to a gem in card that somebody doesn't unpeel the sticker lightly and put in a different card? How are you able to prevent that from happening? Yeah, ours self destruct if you move them, if you try to peel them off, they self destruct. So they're high security. We don't mess around with that. That's your top thing. You cannot have your stickers be peeled off and put on others. So they've been tested to move through different situation and environments and then they're not going to be, they're tamper resistant. You good chat? You good, David? I'm good. You can come back to me in 20 minutes. Jeremy, you're good. I'm giving, I'm giving David the finger under the table right now. All right, so back to, back to the question that I kind of left as a cliffhanger there, Chad. How has GCC been received so far in the marketplace? And I know you're early, but how's it been going so far for you guys? No, really. Well, it's been, you know, 18 months in the growth period. And it's been really great to see. We've seen cards moving on whatnot and ebay, we've seen banknotes, same thing. So the added values there. And that's what I just love seeing. So the more people get involved and see it, it's working. And I, I couldn't be happier to see that. What about secondary market activity? Has there been much happening on the secondary market? We had a comment here. Vintage card collector said he searched GCC Gold on eBay and there are less than 20 cards listed. Enough said. So this guy, this guy, vintage card collector doesn't get. He's not giving you a chance, Chad. He, he, he, yeah, he, he's not, he's not, he's very, he's being very critical in the chat and, but others are too. There's a lot of, a lot of critics in the chat right now. And, oh, and by the way, I just want to say to vintage, I did go back and read your, your, I did misunderstand that comment from earlier. This one here, I don't think I misunderstood. I will, I just want to say one more thing, guys. You know, this, this is sports cards live. This is not any other live stream out there. We respect our guests. We, I, I, I, you know, I haven't banned anybody or blocked anybody in, in quite some time. But we read this stuff. The guests read the comments. You don't have to be nice. You don't have to like. No, you do have to be nice. You don't have to like what they're doing. But be, be, be polite, please, because I will start banning people. I don't care. I, I will ban as many people as it takes to clean up some of this disrespect that I'm sensing in the chat right now. Chad is gracing us with his time. He is, he is trying to do something in the hobby. Whether you like it or not, that's fine. But during the live, you know, go talk about it on, there's all sorts of other channels that talk about what happens on sports cards live. Go talk about it there. They'll be happy to have you. But here we respect the guests. I demand that or I'm just going to start banning people left, right and center. That's what will happen. So with that, Chad, where were we? Where were we? And it's okay. And it's okay, too. We're new, so I expect, you know, you, you understand this part. You know, I've worked in the business for a long time. And everybody has an opinion, and you want to respect that. So with it being new, these lead to questions, and, and whether they, no matter how we express them here, I want to welcome that. So I, I appreciate the opportunity to sit in front of this. And, and if we don't do it, we can't bring understanding about why it makes sense or why it could help in the industry. And we're obviously talking today because PSA has presented a very big issue for us. This solution was something that was in our brains long before, but it's focused on an area that we're talking about. So if we have some naysayers or things like that, you know, I'm, I'm more than happy to answer questions, and, you know, it doesn't bother me. Yeah, well, I appreciate that of you, Chad. And. Okay, well, let's go through some comments here that we do have. And. Okay, I'm banning the first person. I'm, I'm, I've had it. I'm just ban. I'm now banning people who are being disrespectful. Because if you're. If you're disrespecting my guest, our guest, the sports cards live guest, you're disrespecting me. And that's. So I'm. The. The banning paddle is out. The banning paddle is out, you guys. And I'm, I mean, I mean, I'll tell you, I'm eager to use it right now. I can't wait to use it. So try me. Okay. All right, Chad, first question from Skeppy said, Chad, do you ever see a day when casino chips will be authenticated and graded mainstream? Yeah, I think so. I think. Yeah, I could see that. I could see those. I could see credit cards. There's a few things I could see. Be it done like that. Casino chips are very, very calm. What do you mean credit cards? What do you mean by that? Like, credit cards owned by famous people. You have old, old, early credit cards that are, you know, now among us. You know, they're regular items, but I think there's things like that, like I would call a casino. It's almost like a token. So I've seen some things like that done, and I would. I would expect those to be more and more collectible, where they may already be grading them. They just haven't had that market created. So those are. Those are kind of like we were talking about earlier inside types of things that may be growing soon. That's a good question. Absolutely. Driver's license, like, right. I've seen that before too. Like I'm a famous person. Like an old expired one. That's cool too. Yeah, yeah, they're grading everything nowadays. There's another company out there grading lots of things called the Authority. I've had the, the owner of that or the, the president of that company on one of those non live shows. Jim Sholey says, chad, do you like the 1971 TOPS and OPICI baseball cards? I'm not like crazy about him, but sure. Okay, these are, these are, these are some softballs, Chad. Don't worry, the tougher ones are coming. Jeremy from California said, I take selfies with Don Moss. He said, so I feel handsome. Mookie says, Chad, isn't it just impossible to teach enough human graders to satisfy the current demand? How does your company handle that problem? Yeah, that's, that's a really good question. You, you have to vet your team. You have to make sure that the directors of your team, you have to make sure the people. You made a really important comment earlier about the mistakes going out. Someone needs to be looking at those and someone needs to be in charge of those types of things. So the more graders you have, the more difficult it gets to, to train them and keep them consistent. So as they're all pouring into that funnel, you know who's at the, who's at the drip, and that's, that's the main thing. Okay, continuing on. Vintage here said pre grading might make sense if PSA grading was consistent, but they aren't. Unless you're new to the hobby, pre grading is useless and a waste of money. Chad, your thoughts? We're not grading necessarily, and this is going to be what PSA calls it in the end. So as I mentioned earlier with the ranges, you, you have this presenting itself because of that inconsistency rather than hinging on PSA being consistent. Vintage says PSA doesn't own the. Oh, sorry, that was the old one. Desert Shield Sniper said, consistencies, errors. Wait until we find out how many TCG sports cards have been soaked and heat Press. So these aren't all questions for you, Chad. Sundine said TAG also doesn't grade thicker cards, MEM cards and die cuts. Great. Or vintage for that matter, and not about vintage. But I'll say one thing on TAG's behalf, or at least I'm not speaking for a TAG, I'm speaking for myself. But if the sports card community welcomed TAG into the fold with in a more polite manner, in a more welcoming way, TAG might have taken some of their R and D funds and put it towards those things. But TCG is very easy to grade or easier because it's all standard. It's one sided for the most part. So they didn't end. Why, why would they put money into something, into a, into a, a segment that doesn't want them? So that's why they don't do that. I think that's why they, they still don't do that and they likely at this point never will because why would they service a bunch of people who just don't want them or at least the majority seem to not want them. David, so, so I have a, a couple of questions about your grading scale. So you said it's like 1 through 3 and then 4 through 7 is another color, right? Is it 4 through 7? 4 through 6? 4 through 6. Excuse me. Let's say you give somebody the 4 through 6 grade and they send it to PSA and they get a 3. Is there any kind of guarantee or anything that. And then second part of that is if somebody is degrade somebody that you end up doing the pre grade for, do you recommend them sending it with the sticker to the grading company? Yes. So first question, if it doesn't grade the grade that in the range that we give it, that's more or less subjective discrepancy. So we would, we would expect that to be close and minimal. We don't expect that to happen often. We, we also want to put those ranges not in safe zones for us where it's obvious we want to make those cutoffs at important areas, but we want to be selective with that. So I wouldn't say you're looking at conservative grading, but you're not just going to have loose cards floating up into four. So if it's on that three line, we've already had some talks where, you know, we're looking at cards and it's just like it's, it's not like a rule, but if we have somebody that really feels strongly about the card on the lower end, we're not, we're not, not, not opposed to staying there, especially trying to protect the collector. You know, we're not afraid to give it a gem. Meant 10.9.5. But we're also, we don't want the collector getting out in front and then getting a surprise later. That hurts them tremendously. So, so there's that there. And then what was your second question? Do you recommend them submitting a card with the sticker already on there? Yes, that's the, that's one of the Biggest points of doing it was to keep, keep you from having to handle it again. So if you do have a card, let's say you had in the collection, it doesn't matter what level you are, you don't have to handle that again. If It's a gym meant 10, it's a black gem, then you're, you feel good about it. So if you wanted to move it on a secondary market, great. But then if you don't want to, you don't have to. So yeah, we would, we would encourage that and that's why we wanted to set that up where encapsulation companies are, because we want to be fluid with them. We don't want to be injecting a new problem for them as, as they're already trying to move so many cards through. Now what you need is you need customers sending cards through that are prepared properly, that are predictable, that are ready to go. So it's not like we're telling the encapsulation companies this is what it's graded. We're better than you. We've, we've been around two. We're just trying to make that process smooth for everybody. Thanks, David. Mickey Minto said for the next few years AI will assist humans meaningfully. I think that's the best use of it. Assisting humans is what I what I think it's great for. Jim Define says let's talk about the elephant in the room. Some of the most experienced and knowledgeable people in the hobby are vintage collectors. There's needs to be, there needs to be a consensus vintage collector. Sorry, vintage grader. Ziggy no Said, I am honestly confused. I need a practical example. Is this a pre grade app? Are you authenticating raw? I think he has a better idea now that we've talked about it further. So we're gonna continue vintage card collectors. I'm not buying his pitch or use case, so I don't know if vintage still feels that way. Ziggy no said, is this a human only grade or is there AI? Do you fingerprint the raw card? Any technology in the, in the process? Chad no, we believe in the human touch with this. AI works for certain things, but we believe the grading, there's things that we have human touch and we do believe that the vintage is very important. So this is not just a modern scope thing. We're actually both two of us that have started this were based in vintage and that's one thing that we're close to. So we want to provide a solution there. We know the solution may exist more on the top grade with that subjectivity, because as, as you can start to see issues, you can separate grades. So we know the, the lower grades have more of a separation. Even though they may be one number, they're doing a lot more to reveal that. But we, we also want to accommodate those properly and respect the vintage market too. Any financial guarantee or insurance with, with, with what you're doing. Actually, that question came from Ziggy, but he gave a better one down below, right here, where he says, what if c. What if GCC authenticates a card and the grading company declares it not authentic? What happens? But before you answer that, Chad, I would say, like, I don't necessarily trust the grading company to authenticate in the first place. Like, just because they say it's, it's, it's inauthentic and, and GCC says it's authentic. I mean, who's to say one is right over the other? That's where. But Ben. Anyway, back to the question for you, Chad. I can put it back on the screen if you'd like. I just have to. I can't. Darn it. Go ahead and please address that. I hope you can remember what it was. I've unhighlighted it. Yeah, no, I think it's just the reputation. You know, you have cards that get altered. There's cards that, all kinds of things happen, so you need to be aware of those and know what to do about them and know how to identify them. That's part of what we do. So if you're going to start a grading company, you're going to do that. That's something that you, you need to be well experienced in. And sports cards have it, you know, banknotes. Saw it. I saw a question about heat pressed, things like that. They do it. It happens. So you're going to get vintage cards. Go ahead, David. Well, I think what Ziggy was asking is what would your company do or feel if you said it was authentic and then PSA said it was not? After you put your sticker on there, would you give any kind of guarantee or any money back or any kind of scenario like that if that were to happen? Yeah, we're gonna, we're gonna back that up all the way. So anything that you've dealt with, with a transaction or anything we're gonna. Dealt with, all we're gonna wear, we're going to, you know, make and work with you to make you whole. Similar to how a grade may not be psa, may be, not be the end you know, call on that. We're going to make sure that we use everybody in the industry, yourselves included. So that's one thing we want to do, is build that network. And that's what I've done. That's what I did with PMG was when you had certain things like this, for example, I'll go off tangent for a minute, but you may have notes from a different country or outside where it's like, this is new. You need to make sure you're listening to people. So that, that's basically it. Yeah, we're gonna, we're gonna stand behind it. Good. David, you good? Yep, David's good. Thanks for tuning in and being a part of the sports cards live community. Don't forget to, like, subscribe and most of all, keep collecting more great content to come. Sports cars is a lifestyle.