The Hobby Is Looking at Cards Wrong | The Hangover Ep. 1

What is up, everybody? Welcome now, as the song just said, another episode of Sports Cards Live. But this is the Hangover on the Sports Card Clubhouse network and this is episode number one. And my name is Jeremy Lee. And this guy over here, this is, everybody knows him now. Everybody loves him. This is David Chase with. Hey buddy. Here we are, episode number one. Are we gonna have some episode number one? Welcome to the Sports Cards Clubhouse, Jeremy Lee. Hey, you know, everybody loves having you here. You, you have been on the Clubhouse for a while now. You're doing your show with, with Greg. You filled in for Mike this morning on surface Issues. You and Greg do this, the midlife card chase and now you're on the Hangover with me. This is a lot of fun. I wanna, I wanna, first of all, say hello to everyone on the Sports Card Clubhouse audience in the audience on the network and thank you to the clubhouse team for bringing me in as a Sports Card Clubhouse partner. I'm very excited to be producing for the first time in my six plus year content career, producing content for a different platform aside from Sports Cards Live. I am the host of Sports cards live on YouTube, on podcast and. But this is, this is now the Hangover on the Clubhouse and I'm happy to be here. We're going to change up the background, we're going to change up the theme song. This is episode one. We're here to have some fun. This is the Hangover. Rock and roll. David, we have a few things planned. Any opening comments, statements from you, my man. I mean, it's just unbelievable that we get a second show from Jeremy Lee. I mean, come on, I've always been a fan of Jeremy before we even became friends. So when we, when it was even discussed that Jeremy's gonna do a new show on a new platform, I'm excited. I know all of your fans are excited too. Well, thanks buddy. I appreciate it. I'm a fan of yours even before I knew you existed. Now we, we don't really have a main, a major structure for this but this is meant to be fun, chill, relaxing. But with all that said, I want to bring you, we want to bring you good quality content that you're going to enjoy. And so we do have a few sort of, I don't know if we call them segments or topics we want to get into today, but I picked up a few cards recently, David. I've got four cards that I've picked up on their, all four different platforms. I just want to share them with you. I want to share them with the viewers, the listeners. I want to get your guys feedback on these cards. What do you think? I'm all over the place in the Hobby. I drive my hobby, my hobby car down 35 different lanes. So stay, steer clear of me because we will run into each other and I don't want to create any damage to any other vehicles on the lane on the Hobby highway lanes. Okay? I don't know if that made any sense. I got something. I got it. So I wanna. I'm sure we're gonna start by sharing those pickups, if that's okay with you, David. What do you think? I want to see him show them. All right, all right. So first of all, I. Okay, I picked up this bad boy right here on. Check out my cards on Com C. This is, this is. I don't know what year it's from. 2003. Don Russ. This is the throwback threads of tone. Oh, where'd it go? This is the throwback threads of Tony Gwynn. Three color patch, authentic game worn jersey. I think it's beautiful. I have a few other cards from this set in my, in my baseball mem collection which I really just started in February when I, upon meeting you for the first time at the west coast card show. What I love about this card is it on the back it shows the picture of the jersey the card came from. Only 10 copies made. Pick this up for like 150 bucks. I think. I love, I love it. I know you're a vintage card guy, David, but what do you think of when you see a card like this? I mean, you're rubbing off on me. I totally see what you mean by how special these are. I mean to have a piece of their jersey and bridge. I love that it shows the jersey on the back, right? I mean that is so cool. Yeah. And I like that you're starting to bleed into players that were from our childhood, right. Not just the ones that are from like the 50s and before. So I love it. Yeah. I mean, Tony Gwynn, who doesn't love Tony Gwynn, doesn't love Tony Gwynn. He's an all time great one. Maybe the best hitter of. So that was the first pickup I wanted to share. That was on comm C. And that was a back and forth negotiation on there. You can make offers now on channel sponsor, collector, investor, auctions. I purchased the batsman, the batsman from the 1882 H800 411 Casican Company. This is the batsman. This is a generic design of a. You know, obviously it's not an actual player or athlete, but this is an oversized card in an SGC 1.5 holder distributed by Peck and Snider. I believe I need to learn more about this. I bought this purely because of how cool it looks that it's now the oldest piece in my whole collection from 1882. And, you know, I was covering, I was doing a show for CIA and I noticed this item. They had not just the batsman, but they had the first. They had the whole series. I. I don't know much about it, but they had the first baseman, second baseman, center fielder, shortstop, the catcher. But the batsman, to me was the most interesting. And I'm like, that's the one. I want to get paid a lot more for it than I thought I would have to. I had no idea. I did. David. I bought this card along with one. I'm going to show one of the next ones we're going to show without even looking at comps at all. Didn't know, don't care. Wanted the card at whatever I was comfortable paying. Have you ever. First of all, I want to hear your thoughts on this card, but also, have you ever bought a card with no. No respect, paid at all to comps you just wanted it? No. Because you loved it so much. Yes. It has to be below a certain price for me to do that though. Right. Good point. That's how it is. But yes, if. Oh, below a certain point, I don't really care as much about comps if it's just a card that I love. Did you know this card before you saw it during the auction? Absolutely not. Never seen it before. Me neither. And it is so cool. It like, looks like it's the history of baseball. Right. I. I have no idea what this thing is, David, and I'm excited to get it in hand and it's going to go up on my shelf up there. We'll talk about how I broke a rule with this card and another one I'm going to show today. But yeah, I'm just super excited to. To add this to the collection. It's got all sorts of staining on the back, which I love. I love that it's a 1.5. I don't care. It looks cool. It's from 1882. This thing is almost 150 years old. That's mind blowing to me. So I'm excited to have it. It was like 300 bucks or something with. With the. With shipping and. And the. The. The 15% buyer's premium. So. Yeah. So it's so it's interesting though that Mr. Pumps pops and comps, right? You buy cards like this and you just don't really care for how much it costs because it's just something that is such a cool piece of your collection and you're not selling it. Right. It's a car that is just going to be sitting on your wall. Right. This isn't even going into your case. No, this is a display piece and it's interesting. You call out, you know that I. The book, my. The book that I wrote and published, pops and comps. And one. I think as you, as we evolve as collectors, especially in the modern day, like, you know this, we are in a comp economy, it feels like, and we all, we all care so much about pops and comps. One of the things you can realize after really understanding them to the degree that I feel I do, having written the book and done the research that I did and, and the experience that I have in the hobby, there comes a point where you can say, put it all aside. I don't care what the pop is. I don't care what the comps are. This card represents more to me than what a pop or a comp can tell me. And that's why I want to add it to my collection, because I want to look at it. There can't be many. I don't know. I don't know. I will now with the other card that I bought, which I'm going to show in a moment, I bought without looking at poor at comps either, or pops for that matter. And I. I deliberately didn't because I didn't want to be swayed or biased by what other people decided on, on any given day that they were willing to pay for a card. I did, however, look at the comps a couple days later just to see. Just to see. But this one haven't looked at. May or may not. Probably will eventually, but it doesn't really matter. There might not be any. This. We've never seen this thing before. Okay. I love it. It's beautiful. Well, I like how the looks like it's about to hit him in the head too. It's. It's just such a funny depiction of baseball. If you're listening to this on the Sports Card Clubhouse podcast, I apologize, you can't see these images. If you want to come on to the sports card clubhouse YouTube and have a look, or you DM me on Instagram, jaylee_ sportscards live or my new PC account, jaylee_ Cards. You can see them on there. I can send you a picture. Hit me up anytime. Always happy to talk to anyone who's consuming this content. And the stance, it's a one of a kind stance that patter has, isn't it? It is. And I don't know who's this guy in red? Is that. Is that the first base umpire? Is that the catcher? Is that the main umpire? Who's that guy there? He's ready to tackle him. That's what he is. Maybe the first baseman. I don't know who that is. Maybe he's a linebacker from some football team that just happened to be in the frame. We don't know. But awesome. It's an awesome piece, piece of history. I'm excited to add it. All right, I'm gonna skip ahead now to the car that I was just referring to that I bought another one without looking at comps and I'm going to show that one on the screen right now. I'm showing a 1949 Bowman Stan Musial in a PSA 4 1/2 holder. I'm showing the PER. I paid $1054 for this card. There were only five bids. They started the auction. This is. Oh, this is awesome. So it was bought on ebay. The seller, David, who's the seller? You see right in front of you. Who's the seller? Yes. Hey. Bought it from psa. Probably one of their, one of their customers who sent it right to sale. PSA started this auction at $949, which I think is a huge mistake. When you're selling cards, you are eliminating anybody who, who's going to get swept up into the auction frenzy. So. But it also often works in the favor of buyers. Now, I don't know. I bid on this card without knowing what the comps were and again, I loved the card so much that I didn't want to again say, oh no, I don't want to pay that amount because I might find a better one later. I've been watching for this card for a long time and David, I don't know if you remember, but on a, on the most recent episode of the Vintage Spotlight that, that Leighton Sheldon and I do on the Vintage Spotlight network or platform, we did a draft of non rookie card. We drafted five cards between like, you know, 1888 and 1953 that were not rookies and they were not Tito Sixes or Goudies or 52 tops mantles, but they could not be rookie cards. This 48 Bowman Musial was, I think the Last card that I drafted that I didn't own. No. I also don't have a 48 Leaf Ted Williams, which I drafted as well. So that's next up. But I really wanted one of these for a long time. Looked at many copies and I settled on this one. When I saw it, I reached out to you, I said, David, what do I reach out to Joe, what do you guys think of this card? You gave me the go ahead on it, which was important to me to get your thoughts on it. And, and I bit. And my, my max bid on this card, like because I sniped it, I didn't, I didn't bid until the very end. And, and at the very end the bit was at like 1050 or a thousand forty. Whatever it was at my max bid, I want it for 1054. My max bid I think was $1,666.66. Like I wanted to win this card without knowing comps. I went and looked at comps later and actually we can, we can kind of do that right now. And just why is that so, I mean even. What's the reason why you didn't even want the knowledge when you were bidding on that card? I didn't want to bias myself from buying the card. Simple as that. I just, I was like, this is the copy I want and I'm going to buy it now. This is shown. I'm going to actually. Hold on one sec. I'm just going to change the. That was shown in Canadian and change as you're doing that. How about if it was a three, Jeremy and looked the exact same because we know how PSA can trick us like that. And by the way, I mean, I didn't mention. This is like the most incredible copy of that card I've ever seen. It is spectacular. And that card is so hard to find. Right. Registered like that. It's sharp. It has every piece that you'd want. But let's say it was a PSA3. Would you still be paying that kind of a price? Because you're not looking at comps. You know what? I, I don't. Well, here's the thing. If the card was the, if this was the exact same card but in a three holder. Yes. I don't think that I, I would have paid the same amount. I think I would have paid. I think it's so hard to really know for sure. I think I would have paid the same amount if it was the exact same card. But PSA that day put in a three instead of a four and a half. I think I would have. Now I was, I had some things that led me to be sort of confident. It's a very recent grade. It's a nine digit serial starting in 1 5, meaning it was probably slabbed like this calendar year 2026 right in the last. Probably slabbed right before they listed it for sale. It's literally one of the most recent grades I've ever seen. Like it's that reset. Yeah. The back is very clean. I looked, I inspected this card. It sits in the holder on a bit of an angle. I had to make sure. Is this diamond cut. I, I, I determined it was not. It's slightly off center. I'm okay with that. The color is wonderful, the background is wonderful. So I'm like, I'm gonna make this my copy. And I did. So then I go to the comps a couple days after, after I bought it. I'm like, okay, let's see. Am I gonna be like disappointed or, or what? I like I did but I wanted the card. So here's my comp. There's the TH00 54. Bought it two days ago, May 17th. Come down to this one over here. I don't know what this is, but it's a horrible pick. This ebay seller, collectibles, toys, records and more. I mean how do you sell a card with like it's a horrible image? So I ignore that comp, but look at this. But Jeremy, when you saw that comp, do you know what you do on that? You can just go to that comp and then put it into the psa. It was a new grade. So what everybody should do when you get a card like that that's on ebay, you go to PSA's website, you put that cert number in and you're going to see a perfect photo of it just for a little trick to trick to, to buy cards. That's a great trick. We're gonna, I'm gonna actually do that right now and I'll bring this over as soon as I bring it up. I'm just doing the, the PSA cap captcha right now and I'm going to type that serial number here. And I love when that happens because it's going to go for lower because the person who posted made a mistake by not showing the good photo. Take advantage of it when you see things like that. Same with sgc, you can find the cert and find. So there it is. Here's the car. Here is this, is this card here the seller did a horrible job in putting. He should have just taken the image here because look at this. Exactly. Now this is much more off centered than the copy I bought in my opinion. And why isn't that. There we go. I just want to see if anything else sticks out to me on this card that I did not buy. This is a different one because the color looks good. The registration is bang on, just like the copy I bought. So I'd say this is a very strong copy. And it sold for 900. I paid, I paid an extra $154 to get a better centered card. I'm okay all day. I don't feel bad about that one. How about this one? This whole January 11, 2026. Beautiful. I would have happily had this copy. It sold for $4 less than mine. At first I thought this was the same card. David. It's not. Well, it might be, but it's a different slab. This is an older slab but a beautiful also PSA4. Now isn't that look beautiful. It's a great copy killer. I mean it's so dark. The colors are vibrant in that card. It's almost the same card that I bought and that one was $4 cheaper then. We're, now we're a year and a half ago almost. You see this four and a half sold for 935 on January 1, 2025. Another horrible scenario. It's. You can see a shadow of the guy's phone over the card, but it looks very similar to these other ones. This one might have a little bit weaker corners. I mean we can go back, we can go back to the cert. I can go to the cert verification and take a bit of a closer look at, at this one here too. So why don't I just quickly check the cert here. That is, what is that? 942-320-744. I'll just search that. But this is like a really good thing to understand when you're looking at comps. You can have an amazing card that the picture is decreasing the value on the comp. I promise you that if you had nice photos on that, both of those cards would have gone higher. I mean I can't promise absolutely, but most likely. Right. So I don't know if I messed up putting the serial number in there or if, if it wasn't captured by PSA because I'll try one more time. 9423-2074-9423-2074. Nothing came up the first time. So no, that one PSA didn't capture the. Oh, and it's a year and a half. It's a year and a half ago so but you can see. And then we're back into 2023. So we're not going to look at those irrelevant too far back in time comps. But after I, I did this. David. Okay. A 900 1050, 935 here. Very happy with my 1054. I do not feel like I overpaid. Nope. And I think I might have got a good deal. Had they started this auction at 99 cents or 10 bucks, it might have gone for a lot more because more people would have been invested in the auction process. So I want to share this one. This is. I'm very excited to add this to my collection, to my 49 Bowman collection, my vintage baseball collection. Should we go to the next card or do you have anything else on this one? No, I mean I love. You know what else was interesting that I noticed on that other version on PSA that was showing. Look at how red is hat is on certain copies of that. I don't know if you still have that one up. The one that you had from the psa. The one that, the one that had the photo. Yeah. I mean do you see how much like the color. The colors can be a little different. It was actually that one that the regular photo of it was really, really red. It's just cool to sometimes see the differences on the printing even when both of them look like they're killer colors. But yeah, this one things that I look at it might be a different print run too. Right. Like different. I don't know but we see that with 48 Leafs there were different print runs that had different. Different results in the way the cards looked. Like the ink added sort of thing. So early print versus not sure. But I'm very happy with that pickup. And then I think so we looked at. We looked at the Gwyn, we looked at the. The batsman. We looked at the 48, 49 Bowman Mutual. And then the last card I bought, I bought this one just on Sunday on Fanatics Collection. I bought my very first ever 1952 Red Man Tobacco. This is the Warren Spawn. I've never up until a few months ago even paid attention to Red man cards. I thought they were ugly. I didn't like them. I'd never liked how the. What I call the back of the card for most cards of the era, the way that was on the front of the card. But they've grown on me. David. This Card has something else on the back so you're not like missing out on the back of the card. Like if you think about the post serial cards, you got the back of the front on. You got the back of the card. What would usually be on the back of the card? On the front of the card. Why? Because the back of the card is plain cardboard. The inside of the box from the packaging. But Redman actually put something on the back so you're getting more bang for your buck. More card content on the card. I'm a. I'm a Warren Spawn guy. Why? Because he's as handsome as I am, right? Yeah, yeah, yeah. So I bought this, it's a PSA5. I bought it on Fanatics for $174 which seemed like a great deal to me. I have know I still haven't checked comps, don't care. But it's got the bottom tab, hasn't been cut off. Looks to be in good enough shape to me. I mean it's just. It's just a cool piece. And this I've actually ordered, I'm taking delivery. It is on its way to being shipped to me. I'm not leaving it in the vault or anything. I'm taking delivery of it. So those are my four pickups. What do you think of my first ever Red man? Am I going to be happy when I receive this? Like I've never owned one before. I know you're going to be happy when you receive this because I watch, you know, your fanatics weeklies and I've been seeing you warm up literally every week. You've been now showing them every time. You didn't always show them. And then as you show them, you're always like this card is growing on me. I think I've heard you say that every time you've seen it. Like any red man that's there. Now here's my question for you. Would you have bought this card if it did not have the tab? Probably because I wouldn't. Here's the thing, David. I wouldn't even. I wouldn't have even known like it wouldn't. It would not have been top of mind that there was a tab. Like I don't know much about these cards. I've never been interested them in in them before. And even though I've been covering some of them on the fanatics weekly shows that I do Sunday nights, I've never really noticed it. The fact that it's there just helped. It helped me realize, oh wait a second, this one still has it? I'm assuming a lot of them are cut off. I don't know. I'd have to go look. So what about you? Where would, would you buy one without it? You know, because it's reasonably priced. Reasonably priced. Right. I think that I would want it with the tab. Now if this was a two thousand dollar card and it was ten thousand with the tab, I wouldn't care. Right. So it really has to do with the pricing on it. But is that card a oversized card? Good question, David Chase. Well, it is. And the way. So when I bought it like. And you. As you know, I have a, a personal collection policy which is no oversized cards. Okay. Well, Jeremy, this card is, this card is oversized, David. It's too big to fit in a standard PSA holder. It's, it's too wide. Height wise, top to bottom, I think it's fine. But you can tell from the holder where the, right, where the, the label, the, the PSA flip or the label is, is that there's space within the holder to the left and the right of it. Oh, hold on, let me bring it back on. There's space to the left and the right of the flip, which is how I know for certain it's in an oversized slab. So just like the batsman from the 1882 card, this is something that will likely. It's not going to live in my graded card collection box, which is why, one of the reasons why I have my policy. But it's going to go on my shelf with the batsman and a Warren Spawn autograph I have up there as well. It's going to go up on the shelf. So it's a display piece versus a piece that's going to go get tucked away in the box and, and you know, under intense security with my collection, this is going to be in my office on a shelf and if someone breaks into this office, they're gonna be able to take that card. But so, so now that you've, you know, you've broadened yourself a little bit with these rules. I know you have a couple already, which I didn't even know that until you bought these for this week. I didn't know you had any oversized cards. But now that it is a possibility for you to do that, are we back in on a possibility of you getting that? Kareem the Namath, the Maravich, like those are the three, I feel like most famous oversized cards. I know you used to have them. Yeah. Would you ever think about buying them? Nope. Nope. Why? Why? Because those cards double as awesome pieces but also as like investment type pieces. Long term holds that I wouldn't, I wouldn't want to display those. I wouldn't want those to get discolored. This Warren Spawn Red man, that batsman and the other two oversized cards I have up there which are from the ones from 1888. The other one's from like 1906. They're advertising pieces. They're on display. If they get discolored over the next 25 years of sitting in this room, which I have a ton of floor to ceiling windows on the other side of my monitor here that you can't see. I don't care. Let them get this color. They are for day to day enjoyment. When I walk into this office every day, I turn my head, I look at my. Hey, what up? What up Warren? Fist bump, bro. You know it's a mirror. Yeah. So it's just a different category of. Of collectible for me. Even though they're both cards. So I think my, my policy of no oversized cards is sort is. So there's like, there's a bit of a corollary to it which is. Or an exception unless it's going to end up on my shelf and I'm going to look at all the time because my storage doesn't allow for oversized cards. But my display does. So do you have. Would you be willing to pick up 10 more or do you feel like that you've had. Is there a certain amount that would be too many for you? Fun question. I think I. I'd be happy to. To build out a flight of Red man cards. So I would. I would like to have maybe two or three. Maybe. Maybe not two. Maybe three. Maybe not four though maybe I'll maybe over. And here's what I would do. This one, this Warren Spawn has that blue background. I would want the other two to have different colors as well so that they look kind of fun. More of a rainbow sort of thing. So. Okay. So those were my pickups David, you picked up. Let's talk about your most recent pickup, then we'll change it up. We're already 26 minutes in. Boy, we're. We're unstoppable here. This can't be three and a half hours. Jeremy, that stays for Saturday. Come on. Fair enough. Fair enough. Tell us a bit about the. Do you want me to. So. So David sent me some pictures in an email. I'm going to share those with you with the screen here and we'll try and talk them through for the listeners on podcast. But do you want me to share the. The images or do you want to set. Set the. Set this one up a little bit first. You can share it at the same time. So I, you know, everybody knows that. They probably are annoyed at me talking about how much I love the leaf set. But this 48 leaf DiMaggio, I now have a few different versions of it. This is my rainbow. Jeremy was just talking about his. And, like, if you go to that first one, this is my regular DiMaggio that I have. Okay. That's just my copy. That's kind of like the normal version. Maybe it has a little bit more yellow to the background, but that's like the regular version. And then if you go to the one on the right, Jeremy is the one that I picked up in Strongsville, which is the one that had no black ink. Looks very weird. Only a leaf collector like me probably cares about that kind of thing. But I just love looking at them next to each other. And then this is what I picked up this weekend. No yellow ink. Now, I know it looks like it was left in the sun or dropped in a pool or there's some kind of issue with it. It's not. I don't think it's as pretty as the one with no black ink, but I love looking at them next to each other. I don't know why. Why I feel the need to do this, but just looking at them all three next to each other looks like a work of art. It looks like a Warhol to me. So it does look like a Warhol. Absolutely, it does. I. Actually, you. You. I have to just mention this because yesterday I posted a couple more cards to my. My Instagram account. J. Lee underscore cards where I just show cards. And. And in one of the cards I posted, I mentioned how it reminds me of a Warhol painting. So people can go have a look at that if you're so inclined. But. Yeah, this is really cool, David. It's, you know, it's not some. I own a. I own this version. The. The standard version, and I love it. Bought at the national last year. I couldn't be happier. But this is cool. And this is one of the. This. This is another example of. We all collect. We all collect differently. We're all in. We're all in. Sometimes we're in the same lane, but we're in different vehicles, so we see things a little bit differently. We're. We're. I think a lot of people are in the 48 leaf lane. David. I have three cards from the Set. I'm covering that. Ted Williams still. You're in the 48 leaf lane, but you're like, you're way down the highway. You, you're, you're like you've been to the moon and back because you're so advanced when it comes to the leaf cards. But congrats on the pickup. Rounding out this, this 48 leaf DiMaggio rainbow is, is pretty cool, man. And this really represents these pickups. It's a very cool thing where, you know, I know part of the hobby spectrum where you're showing a lot of the items of like what we love and so you can connect with people that, that like the same things as you. But what's also very cool is when you become friends with people. I mean, the cards that Jeremy picked up are probably cards I would never pick up and he would do the same with me. And at the same time we still send them to each other and, and we are excited for the other person because we know, we know their lanes. It's fun to not have to have everything be the exact same with your friends and still really enjoy the pickups. I think that's part of like the most fun parts of the hobby. You know, Joe Perot, who, for anyone who's new to, to me to Sports Cards Live, you're not new to David Chase if you're on the Clubhouse. You've seen him on other shows here. We've done some other shows here already on the Clubhouse platform. But Sports Cards Live, it's over six years I've been doing that show on the sports cards live YouTube channel. And Joe Perot, dear friend of mine, has been a regular sort of co host for a year and a half now. He's, you know, busier than he was. So he's not on for the whole show. David Chase, back in about February, early March, started joining as a regular. We also often bring on Leighton Sheldon from Just Collect. He's been joining me on the show for three or four years now. Not every Saturday, but two or three a month. Chris McGill, co founder of Card Ladder, is one of our. We call him and Josh Adams the Closers. They come on for the last hour on Saturday night. So Sports Cards Live is like a, a long, long form, lots of action, live stream. The chat gets really involved and, and David has been my co host among my co hosts, my, my, my regulars there for a few months now. And with this hangover show we are intending to, you know, this is episode one, so it's me and David, but in Future episodes you might see Joe Perot, Chris McGill, Josh Adams, Leighton Sheldon, maybe someone else we don't know. Come on and join us for a few minutes during this show. But we're going to continue with just me and David here on episode number one. We. This did all happen very quickly as well. You mentioned oversized cards. Should we segue into some Kareem Abdul Jabbar rookie, some Lu Alcindor 69 tops rookie cards that were sold just on Sunday on fanatics and as well as the Saturday night show on sports cards live. I do about three Sunday nights a month. I cover the fanatics auction ending. They're. They're a partner of mine. I cover their show. I also do the premiere show every Thursday. Sorry, one Thursday a month with Adam Gray, the Real 27 guy. We've done. We've been doing this for five years running now with. I think this month will be our 60 or 60 first episode consecutive months. Pretty crazy. But we were. I was looking at a couple cards so I'm going to share the screen with you guys again now. And here's. So I'm sharing. Okay, this is a bit weird to look at, but this is the video on the sports cards live YouTube channel from this Sunday and I have it set. There's a three minute clip that I'm gonna play for you guys with sound and if you watch this show with me on Sunday, this will be a repeat for you. If you didn't, you can listen along or. But David, you've seen it. It's. It's just under three minutes. I'm gonna hit play. We're gonna watch it together and then we're gonna talk about it. So David, are you ready for me to hit play here? Let's do it. Okay, here we go guys. Fives here. But the one on the right has eye appeal of top 15%. The one on the left does not show any eye appeal award by fanatics. So let's take a look at the one that does not have eye open. Zooming in. Top, top right corner has some softness. The top edge isn't perfect either. Top left corner slightly soft. Great color. I want to call out the color looks really good. It's off center to the right. Really easy to assess centering on the, on these cards because of the. The distance from the edge of the card to the inner oval. And you can see it's. It's certainly shifted to the right. But it's hard to find these cards centered bottom edge issue soft corners. Okay, zooming out like registration Looks good. Color looks good. Quick look at the reverse. Nothing jumps out. Let's go to the other copy. PSA 5 with eye appeal. We're gonna go straight to those ovals. Look at the centering. Yeah, it's. It's not perfectly centered, I don't think. Slightly to the right a couple degrees. That's it. It's got this print defect right over here. It's got this print defect right over there. It's got a little white spot under his eye. Gonna be really hard to see, though, when you're not zoomed in. But that top edge and corners are awesome. Side edges. Oh, no. Bottom edges and corners are awesome too. But this card has a flaw that I. I hate. I hate when. And it's not. You know, it happens on cards. Look at this right edge. I like. It's almost like a rough cut. But if you were to lay the edge of your ruler against the edge of this card, you're gonna have a gap. I'm actually gonna do that on my. I'm gonna pull out my. My ruler right now, and I'm gonna lay it against the screen. You're not gonna be able to see me doing this, but. Yeah, yeah, you've gotta. I'm laying my ruler matching up the. Yeah, you've got a gap. It's like. It's like. It's. It's indented. That's a deal breaker for me. This card would not be welcome in my collection simply because of that. And. And not only that, this one, they gave it exceptional eye appeal. Top 15. I don't know how you do it. When the card has a deformity. That's a. This is a default. This is a deformity on the card. I. I'm just coining that term right now. This card is deformed. And I don't know how you give eye appeal to a card that is deformed like this. So I don't agree with that, but I don't abide by their standards for eye appeal. I have my own. These are the Jeremy Lee standards of eye appeal. So I. I just. I'm not arguing. I don't want to dispute them. Adhering to their standards that fanatics collect. I'm just saying that this would not pass for my I appeal standards because of that. You know why? Because my eye goes there. I appeal. Can you. Can you not. Can you not see it? No, you can't not see it. At least I can. All right, so. Well, there's lots to unpack there, David. You know View the. My. Myself using the term deformity, myself saying that, you know, I have my own eye appeal standards, and I can't get behind the sta. The. The award of an eye appeal label to that particular card by fanatics I appeal department. But listen, I don't. I don't know what their standards are exactly. Anyway, I've got a. A feel for them because I've seen so many cards. Maybe they didn't notice it. Grading companies often miss something on a card. Maybe fanatics missed something on that card when they were reviewing it. For I appeal, but for me, I use the word deformity. That's a pretty strong, harsh term to give to a card, but that's how I feel. I'm not gonna mess. I'm not gonna pretend I like the card when I don't. I don't like that card. It would not be welcome in my collection. I know you like when I say that. What are some of your. What do you think about when you see me kind of dismantle that card? I love when you dismantle cards. I always send Jeremy text messages of, like, quotes. He says, during that show, I learned so much by watching you dissect those cards. And I bet you I have a couple of cards that have that issue that I probably have never even noticed. And that's what I love. Right. I mean, watching you sometimes go through a card that has, like, an issue, it just. It cracks me up. But in this one, I get it, and I really. I don't think that I would have noticed that, as weird as that sounds. And it just shows that I really have to look at cards a lot better when I end up looking at them, because somebody like you would never want that card in a higher. And I mean, man. I mean, that's a PSA 5, right? Was that a 5? I think 5. I mean, that's a. That's a relatively, you know, higher mid. Higher grade for that card. And it's pretty well centered, which is very tough to find on that card too. So it's a very interesting point. I don't think that I feel as strongly as you do about that issue, but I love hearing what issues are from other people because it just teaches me to look at every aspect of a card in more detail than I usually do. Yeah. Yeah. I think that that's a good takeaway, and I. I'm glad that if that's what you learn or what anyone else learns is just to examine the whole card. If you're. If. If centering is number one for you like it is for David Chase. Make sure you're not only checking out centering. You know, if all you care about is corners, make sure you're checking out edges. You know, you also have, have mentioned that the bat we, the, the, the reverse of cards which actually on the episode that was released this morning, surface issues where you filled in for Mike John Quack zero with Greg. You guys talked a lot about back damage and, and where you guys fall on that. And we're not going to rehash all that. That was, that was, this will drop the day after. So we don't need to rehash that whole discussion. But you've, you've mentioned to me how even when I'm doing a, a card review on the fanatic shows, I'll look at the back for a split second to see if there's anything that jumps out. But I'm not dissecting the back. I very rarely do I dissect the back the way I dissect the front of a card. So I want to get, I want to, I want to give you my thoughts on back damage because you guys talked about it. But before we do that, let's talk a bit about, a bit more about deformities because it's a new idea that I have in my head now. It's in your head and we're thinking about what are, what is a deformity, what isn't a deformity. And I'm trying to structure this, build a framework in my mind and I'm separating deformities from into two groups. One is like pre coming out of the pack and one is post coming out of the pack. And if it comes out of the pack, if a, if a card becomes deformed post birth from the pack, maybe it's just wear and that's just damage. Is that really a deformity? It's probably not. To me, a deformity is something that happens pre coming out of the pack. It's a production issue. So for example, a card that is diamond cut, what does that mean? To me that means a card that is not a Perfect rectangle with four 90 degree angles. It might, you know, it's more of a, an awkward shape. It's more shaped like a diamond. That to me is a deformity. The card did not come out the way it was intended to this Lu Alcindor. It's missing a chunk of the edge. It's got a valley in the edge of the card that was meant to be a straight edge. To me, that's a deformity. Now you contrast that against a pinhole. A pinhole to me is sort of a deformity. But it, but it happened after the card came out and it didn't happen at the point of production. So it's not where necessarily it's use, it's enjoyment. It's a story of the card's history. So I don't know if I consider that a deformity. And this is all up for discussion, really. Anyone listening, watching, anyone in the hobby can define these terms however they want or ignore this discussion altogether. Doesn't really matter. But for me, I love talking about this stuff. David, we. You talk about a horrible, like a Gretzky 79 Opici card that has a horrible rough cut. Is that a deformed card? You know what? To me, it kind of is. PSA overlooks it. They don't penalize for rough cuts, but I penalize that for eye appeal. And to me, warm and he impacts eye appeal. And what is it you think about it? A human with a deformity. If you're born with one arm, that's a. I don't want to get into, you know, hurting people's feelings, but I think that would be considered somewhat of a deformity if you're born with an extra finger sort of thing, 11 toes type of thing. Not the way, let's say I don't want to get into religion, but you know what I'm getting at. So I was gonna say God intended, but if God put 11 toes, that's what God intended. Right. Won't get into that. But. So you've got rough cut, then you've got things like is is off center a deformity. Not to me, David. Not to me it isn't. But what about. Well, just to me. David's hesitating. For those listening, he's trying to reconcile that in his head, which is what this is about. But then you. Then we've also got things like paper loss or rounded corners. To me, that's where the card has become deformed. It's missing its corners. It's missing part of the back. But when I use the term deformity, for me, unless David convinces me otherwise or anyone else doesn't in the upcoming minutes, hours, days, weeks or months, I'm going to use it for things that happen out of the pack. Okay, over to you, David. So when you're saying out of the pack, so for you, out of the pack, deformities Those are harder for you to get past correct for your collection. Yes. I do not want diamond cut cards or cards with. With, like, valleys on the edges in my collection. And could there be exceptions for a grail card that is very expensive that. That could bring the price down? Absolutely. Okay. Yeah. So, I mean. Yeah, yeah. So. But just in general, a card that you will be able to find a better version of, you just don't want that for part of your collection. Right, right. Like a. A 52 tops mantle, a T206 Honus, a 48 leaf satchel. The impossible cards that I would love to own, and I would love to own all three of those. I don't know if I ever will. Doesn't matter. But those ones I will make all sorts of exceptions for. But for a card where I have like a 49, Bowman Stan Musial, no effing way am I having that diamond cut or with part of the edge of the card just not there. Yeah, no, Totally makes sense to me. And the interesting part, though, when you said a rough cut is also a deformity, I don't think there's anybody that have looked at more Gretzky rookies than you and the opici. I mean, you know better than me. I mean, there's a large percentage of them that are rough cut you with. So with you saying that that's part of eye appeal and a deformity that would be out of your collection if you had a rough cut opg. Okay. There are different degrees of rough cuts on the opg, and I've looked at, like you said, maybe more than anyone, probably not, but maybe I've looked at a lot of them, and I am okay with a certain level of rough cut. I'm totally okay with it. It comes down to me to how much card stock are you seeing? It's usually on the left edge. How much of that card stock is poking out where there's no blue ink over it? If it's just a little bit of fray every millimeter or two, I'm probably okay with it. But if it is. If it's more like a horse's mane coming off the left side of that card, like, I. I'm sorry, I don't. I don't care if it's in a PSA 8, 9, or 10 holder. I don't want it. And I. It's. It's lacking eye appeal. It might have the technical grade, which is a whole other issue for me. I think. I think grading standards aren't. Are. Are. Are A part of a big problem. I think grading standards are flawed. I think psa, the leader in the space. I think their grading standards are flawed and outdated in not all of them, but some of them are. So yeah, to me, I don't want a card. Like I mentioned that horse's mane. You can see some car, some Gretzky or is that. It's like there's 2 millimeters. All it is is a real high concentration of fray coming off that left side. To me, it's ugly. Why would I want that? Why would I want. Because my eyes aren't going to be able to not see that. I don't care if my eyes go to the. The PSA grade says a nine or an eight. It's like I don't care what PSA says about my card. I literally don't respect PSA's grades. I pay attention to them, but I use them in other ways. I use them as a way to find value, not to overpay for something that's lacking eye appeal. But their standards are flawed. So it gets into this holder with his high value. Leave that to the registry tracers and. And the grades, the grade color. I'm a card collector, not a grade collector. Although I do like my card slab by psa. But we can get into that another time. So what do you think? Do you know what's interesting about what you were. What I'm just kind of thinking about out loud while you're saying this, that the rough cut. I agree with you. Like PSA doesn't care. Right. How rough a cut is. They don't decrease grades based on that. So I guess that's also why they didn't decrease this Jabbar. Yeah. It's a similar situation where it's a deformity and they don't really care if it has that issue. And I believe that's why I listen. That's why I believe that the standard itself is flawed. How can you not penalize the card for having. Now listen, maybe they did penalize. It's a five. We saw that card has some other issues. It has some print defects here and there, corner issues. We don't know because. Because PSA is a black box and you have no idea why you get the grade. You do what? We don't know if they penalize the card for that. The crevice in the. In the. In the right edge. We don't. If anyone is wanting to see this, if you're listening and not watching, you can go to the fanatics, collect Website and in their weekly auction or just search their, their sold sales for a 1969 Tops Luaus Indoor PSA5. It sold for 1175 doll. Actually no, it might not have sold for 1175. I was recording what I'm looking at was during the auction. I was covering the auction live. I don't know what for but it sold for at least 1175 on Sunday May 17, 2026. If you want to see what we're talking about for yourself. So yeah I, I think the standard is flawed and that to me is just a. It gives, it gives the critical eye like you and me have David. Even though we have a different angle we look at things from. It gives us an advantage I think maybe not for return on investment gives us an advantage. An advantage for buying nice cards, nice cars that we're proud to own. I can be as proud to own a PSA one as I can a PSA 10. Maybe Prouder actually I can be a lot prouder because all the 10 sells that tells people is I got a lot of money. What A one tells you is that I got a critical eye and I have, I have an eye for value and that's at least that's how I operate in that way. So anything else on deformities come to mind for you? We talk about the timing post, post pack pull pre. You know, before it comes out of the pack. After pinholes, corner wear, not the four. To me that's where it's not necessarily deformity. So with your definition I can, I can see a little bit about how off centered could also be a deformity just because it is coming from the pack. And is it really meant to be off centered? I don't think it is but I can you know I guess I think you also have to look at the rate, the rate of occurrence. Right. Like yeah off centered cards are. Probably half of them are off centered. So it becomes normal. I'm not saying it's the intention was there but it becomes they're all off centered. Right. Like that's why Maddie C started I Appeal Inc. Because he was, he was like finding the, the, the, the. The gem of the whole print run is that centered 52 tops mantle. There's only like three ever that are perfectly centered sort of thing that he's ever seen. So it's, it's the rate of occurrence I think is important when understanding what's a true deformity. Right. Because if they all come out of the pack that way or, or in 50 plus do. Okay, you. I can see the reason for calling a deformity, but for me, when it comes to the hobby and sports cards, that's not a off centered is not a deformity to me. It's a production flaw, but it's not one that has changed the structure of, of the cardboard itself. Would. With you saying it like that, though, would you reconsider possibly then the rough cut of the Gretzky? Because that is a high percentage. It is, it. It is. But what. Yeah, I would have to consider that. And you know, listen, this is not a perfect system and we're literally developing it on the fly. So to me, because, Listen, I've got four 79 Gretzky rookies in my collection right now in my PC, and I don't none of them have that horse's mane, but a couple of them I believe do have a little bit of the rough cut. But it's the. It's the night. It's the rough cut that I really like. So listen, yeah, this is gonna be. This is a subjective sort of discussion. And it's like I was saying to David kind of before we went live, you know, every. A lot, and you talked about this with Greg on, on this Surface Issues episode this morning. Everybody has their own idea of what eye appeal is. Right. And I think that makes good sense. So as a consumer, as a hobbyist in this, in our space, you have to, if you are following or listening to people's opinions and, and, you know, taking them to heart, you have to find the person who's critiquing cards for eye appeal. Whose eye appeal standards resonate with you. My eye appeal standards will resonate with some people, but not others. And for those people, maybe David Chase's eye appeal standards resonate with them and, and not with me. That's totally cool. I don't care either way. I collect how I collect. If it resonates with you, join me. Lots of room to talk about these things. So does that. So, yeah, I like that thought. But what are your. What are your issues? What are the standards of eye appeal that are deal breakers for you? Besides that deformity situation, what else is a deal breaker for you? A way out of focus, lack of registration, where I can't help but notice it. Really, the, the one thing I can say that captures everything is can I not see something? Like if there's something on the card that my eye just is drawn to every time because I know it's there? That's not what I'm buying Sports cars to look at. I'm not buying it to look at the flaw. I'm buying to look at the image of the card, the image of the player, the colors used, the design of the background. That's what I'm buying a card to look at. I, I, I'm holding my 58 tops. John United is one of my favorite. I just love this car. It's a PSA 55 holder card is, I can't find anything wrong with it besides a little bit of edge chipping on the back. I, there's nothing that draws my eye to it except for the overall presentation of the card. Nothing. Nothing. If this was missing a, if this had the indent like the Kareem does, that's, that's where my eye would go. Because I'd be like, damn it, why did you know? So I appeal to me is do any flaws or imperfections of the card draw my eye into the point where it's, it's what I look at. And it makes me feel bad about the card. And have you ever purchased a card and you thought that it had the better eye appeal and then the longer you had it, you started noticing an issue with it and then that's all you could concentrate on? Has that ever happened to you? Nothing comes to mind? Okay. Yeah, yeah, yeah. All right. So we talked about these. I appeal the Kareems. We were also. Okay, we, you guys with Greg on, on surface issues, talked about back damage and because we're, you're asking me about. And we're talking about our tolerances for deformities, for rough edges, all these different things. You guys talked about your tolerance for back damage, and you even mentioned when Jeremy does his fanatic shows, he looks at the back for a split second and he, and he's done with it, which most of the time I am. So I wouldn't like as I don't remember how you asked Greg the question. But, but can we just cover it quick? I'd like to share my thoughts. Yeah. Yeah. So, so, I mean, there's so many different versions of what's, what can be back damage right there. And we all know, you know, there could be a glue stain, there could be paper loss. There could be a little paper loss. There could be a lot of paper loss. It could be where you could read the words or you cannot read the words. Where are you on how much do you care about the paper loss in your collection? Or any back damage? Okay. Any, any bad, like even back down because on off centered back is not damaged, it's just the way it was printed. I'm okay with an off centered reverse. I prefer it centered, but I'm okay with the off centered reverse if I'm in love with the front of the card. Let's talk about paper loss. I don't, I don't like paper loss. I don't like it at all. But, but my, my 33 Gowdy number 92, Lou Gehrig has some paper loss on the back. It's a PSA one because of that. And I got a card that looks like a seven on the front but has some paper loss on the back. I can still read all the words. It's not a big chunk of it. It's almost like the lines of one of those old photo albums. It was in a photo album and a little bit came off in some parallel type lines. So it's not ideal. But I'm very happy to have that card in my collection. And I, and I'm, I, I absolutely adore it and I love it. So a little bit of paper loss I'm okay with on the reverse. Especially if it's not getting in the way of any print, any words or anything else that might be on the back of a card. And then we get into like gum stains or the, that, that, that discoloration that we see on the back of 50, 51, 52 bowmans a lot. They kind of go in a strip, kind of like a, a, you know what I mean? On the top of the box. I feel like it's like a wax. Wax. I don't mind that at all. I don't. Because that is the natural history of the card. The card is not deformed, but that's how it came out of the pack. And to me that's a value opportunity because yeah, it does change the presentation of the back of the card. But to me, that is a flaw that I am, that does not offend me as a collector. It does not offend me, it doesn't bother me. It's not ideal, but I don't need ideal in every case. I can't afford ideal in every case. So I look for that low grade, high eye appeal. And that's why I, I, I, that's why I consider PSA grades all the time. The lower the grade, the more interested I am to inspect the card and see if it's worthy of my collection. The higher the grade, the more I think that there's, that it's been, the card's been altered and not caught by the. By PSA or. I just can't afford it, so I'm out anyway, so. And how often do you read the back of a card? Not often enough. Not often enough. You know, but I love when I do. I love looking at the backs of cards. I. There's a. There was a time a couple years ago I was like, I should start an Instagram account called Card Backs and just post the backs of cards or play a game. You know, like. Like, here's a. You know, oftentimes you'll have a little story about the player. Like, but, you know, you redact the player's name and you put that out on a. For fun and make us make a game out of it. Like, what card is this? Or what player is this? You know, the back is a rich source of information and entertainment on cards that is untapped. And why? Because it's the back. There's no, there's not the main picture. The player is not on there. But I look at the back of this 58 tops, Johnny Unitis, and you know, there's all sorts of text over here that I could be reading and Which I did. I did read the back of this card earlier today, actually, so. And I love it. The, you know, the football fun fact. Rub your penny against it. Like they're. They're underappreciated. How about. Would you accept writing on the back where you can still read every part of the back of a card? Oh, good question, David Chase. Historically, my answer is no, but. But it depends on the writing and it depends. Is it. Yeah, it just depends what it is. Like that card that you guys showed on Surface issues that came out earlier today, we're recording on Tuesday the 19th had like some kids initial stamps or something on it. I don't know that that was cool. I don't know that I have an issue with that. Price has got to be right. Grade has to be appropriate because that'll help dictate what I can buy it for. So. And the front has to look spectacular. Right. If something like that is going on, Pretty much. So you would be open to having. I mean, how about. Is there a difference between pen and pencil? Do you care a difference between something like that? I don't know. I don't know. I haven't thought about it enough. I don't. I know that a pencil could be removed. That's a whole other discussion whether that's right or wrong. Pen will be harder to remove. I've never tried to remove anything, so I don't know, I don't think it would bother me either. Whichever one it was you. I don't know where I recently saw a card with some ink. Oh, I must have. Maybe it was on fanatics on. On the Sunday night show. There was a car that had some ink on the back, but it didn't look like a pen. It almost looked like a pen exploded or something and a bit of ink got in there. Like it wasn't shaped like any letter. And I thought that I could, I could handle that. I could handle that on, on the back. One of my cards. Yeah. The way the reason why I and I kind of. I mentioned this on service issues. I don't want to repeat myself, but I'm okay with back damage. I really look at the front a lot more than the front. And the thing that made me realize that the Most was about two years ago there was a 52 mantle that was at an auction and it had the front that. I'm not exaggerating. It probably looked like a seven. It was perfect and it was like centered and amazing. But it was torn out of the scrapbook. And when I say the back was bad, it was like 2/3 of the back was cardboard. And I was thinking in my mind and by the way, it went for like a high one. Okay. Like that's how much it went for. And in my mind I was thinking like, you know, if that was a card that I was looking at, could I handle that? I mean that especially that card where it's so expensive, it's out of my price range. But if I somehow consolidated enough to save up to make to get me that card, I could handle it. I could handle it in that version. And that's where I started to look at myself and think of my collection. Where. Why, why do I have this rule? Why do I have this standard? It's okay on certain. I understand not doing it on an 87 tops McGuire, but on a big card, maybe it gets me in. And what about you, everybody out there, you've been listening, you've been watching. Where do you fall on back damage? Where do you fall on deformities? Rough cuts, diamond cut cards. How did you like my pickups today? How do you like David's? Joe DiMaggio, 48 Leaf Rainbow. Let us know in the comments down below here. This has been a blast. David. Episode number one of the Hangover is now in the can. We're gonna get this one up and out to you guys. Wednesday, May 20, 20:26 thanks for joining, David. Final comments and we're done. I'm just, I I can't believe Jeremy Lee is on the sports cards clubhouse where everybody I know I speak for all of your fans. Happy that you're on this here buddy and super fun show to do this with you. This has been a blast. We'll see you back here. Next time on the sports card clubhouse, the hangover.