The Impact On Sports Card Shows With The Recent Hobby Boom; How A World Series Run Affect Card Sales; Show And Tell With Recent Pick-Ups With Guest Host Darrell (aka DC)

You're listening to Cards to the Moon, a podcast about trading cards from both a collector and investor perspective. We hope you'll stick around for the ride as we take a deep dive into the state of the hobby, share some hot takes, hopefully some useful advice and fun stories along the way. Hey guys, welcome back to another episode of Cards to the Moon. This is episode 329 and my name is Clark from 5cardguys.com and you can also find me on social media at 5cardguys on Instagram, YouTube and on Facebook. And co-hosting with me today as a guest host is a good friend of the pod. His name is Daryl. You guys probably know him as DC. So Daryl, welcome back to the pod. Oh, thanks so much. I mean, I miss being on here. It feels like it's been a little bit. That's what we were saying because we just saw each other at the Sport Card Expo and one of the first things I asked you was like, when are you coming back on the pod? And the timing worked out great a few days later. So anyway, as the guest host, DC will sit in on all the segments we have for today and we'll begin as we usually do with Off the Top. Since DC, you recently set up at the Sport Card Expo, like I just mentioned, here in Toronto, I wanted to ask you if you've noticed sales of Blue Jays cards, our local hometown baseball team of course, increase in demand at all because of the magical World Series run that we were just on. Definitely was a crazy uptick. I actually set up a specific case just for Blue Jays stuff. Stuff that might not have moved before or just because a lot of people had it. There was a demand for everything, not just Vlad's, somewhat Poe, but the hottest card was Treya Savage. Everyone asking for Treya Savage. It's amazing. All my base chromes gone, refractor chromes, I didn't even get to the show. I literally sold them during the World Series run and I had a couple left and I sold the first day and I put together a deal to pick up an autograph the Thursday, no, that was Friday morning, gone instantly. First half hour, gone. People were trying to sell a lot of Treya Savage actually. I just don't want to get stuck holding the bag. A lot of people had some crazy numbers because the comps during the World Series, leading up to World Series and then even after the World Series just have been kind of crazy. You'll notice there's a little bit of a slowdown, but specifically during that show, that was the hottest card because there's a lot of, I would say, new collectors, people that aren't really collectors just want to get a piece of the action of Toronto's hottest new prospect. He played so well in the playoffs, so a lot of people just trying to grab it. Treya Savage, Barger was a hot one. I sold a bunch of Ernie Clements, which I went digging into my 2017 Bowman stash and I found a bunch of Bowman Chromes, which sold pretty instantly. The Mala to a degree. I guess part of the thing is because I had that whole Blue Jays case, it was almost like an upsell. It's like, here's this, here's the main cards, here are some of the cards around it, see if you want it. I sold a Holiday, a bunch of old Jays stuff because kids would come with their parents. The parents are more old school, so they're like, oh, Jesse Barfield, I'm interested. Devon White, stuff like that. I definitely sold a lot of Blue Jays stuff and also not just the stuff in the case, but I have some shoe boxes outside, all just Blue Jays. People just wanted those and they were cheap, but at any other time, I wouldn't even put some of these things out. It's just capitalizing on the situation. The timing was perfect because the World Series just ended and the Sport Card Expo a couple weeks later comes about and people are looking for Jays cards. I think we talked about it on our last pod with Hyung and John and we're just saying how so many more people that we've noticed that jumped on the bandwagon, we don't mind bandwagon jumpers coming on and rooting for our Jays and now they're looking for cards of their favorite players or the players they've never even heard of even a month or two months before, like Addison Barger, like you mentioned, and even Ernie Clement to a certain degree. I think I sold the Andres Jimenez Bowman first card. I sold some Varsho too. It's just very interesting. I think what happens is people get caught up in the hype and they see something and they go, oh, maybe I should grab this too or maybe I should get this too or I'll be, hey, why don't you take this and I'll throw it in, throw it, you know, whatever it is. It's definitely nice to clear out a bunch of stuff that's been sitting in some boxes for a long time. Yeah, no, and I want to ask you that, like the most of the cards that you put out, like the Treya Savage and even Ernie Clement, these are guys we ripped from Bowman or Topps product years ago. So you just had them sitting around and you were like, oh, maybe I should look through my boxes. Well, Clement was from 2017 and that was when I was still ripping like cases of stuff, right? So, you know, I guess I had the foresight back then to separate the Bowman first. So I actually had like 40 of these Ernie Clements already in a bag. So it was ready and then I found some refractors and stuff like that too. So it was actually quite good. Literally one guy, like, you know, I was selling them like, you know, one at a time for, you know, five bucks each or whatever. And this one guy came and just bought all of them at the end when I, when I brought the four. So he's like, oh, I'll take, I'll take whatever you got there. And I go, I think I have like 35 of these somewhere. And he said, oh, okay. But he took them all. He took them all. I just gave him a package deal. He just bought a bunch of J stuff and actually one slab in the sub 200 case. And that was great. You see anyone that complains about, you know, our baseball cars is lying around and, and you know, we got to get rid of them because it's taking up too much space. You just never know when they'll become valuable again. And you know who the perfect example of this is, is Cal Raleigh, his people's 2022 collections and all of a sudden it's worth a lot more because of the season that he just had. Like, I mean, Bowman is like the gift that just keeps on giving, like literally I will just throw those in a, in a, in a five lane and then every year just go back and look or someone just like, excuse me, has like a breakout season or a breakout time. And you, you look up, well, when was there Bowman first, then you go, oh, 2017, 2018, I got like five, five or 10 boxes. Let's go look. So Nelson velocity sports, there was one time when, when I was still living in a condo downtown and I was just trying to clear out stuff in my, in my second bedroom, which was basically like a warehouse. Cause it was all cards. I was like, Hey, why don't you just like, I posted it out in this group and I was like, okay, whoever's the first person to message me, I will, I will just get rid of all these, these cards for, uh, I think it was like $25, like a five, a four lane and it was all paper Bowman. So I didn't really care. So he, he messaged very, very quickly and I go, okay, it's perfect. He'll take it. I'll trade you these, these four for a case of top loaders, less space. I need a top loaders. Yeah. And he came and took it and then he left and he just left them in his car for a little bit. And then at work, like Sunday, he would just go look. So we have this ongoing joke because every expo he buys dinner, every expo, because I've given him so much stuff like, like paper, he's like, Oh, Wander Franco papers before the scandal and stuff, but the Wander Franco papers, uh, Ernie this time, Ernie comments, he found this year with Ernie comments. I told him, Hey, it's 2017. I gave you a bunch of that. So he sold a bunch of Ernie. He took a, some Ernie comments. He drops them off in my booth. Like I left and I came back and I saw like 10 Ernie comments sitting on my showcase. And he's like, Oh, these dropped off for you. He must've sold like, must've had like a hundred. I took like 10 and I sold them for like $2 a piece or like throw ins for whatever. And everyone was super happy. But literally every year there is something that he finds in those boxes that he's able to sell. And he's just focused on J's. So yeah, he always finds a way to sell that stuff. No, that's awesome. And um, that's why I love baseball. You never know after another, you know, this upcoming season, who the breakout star is going to be or someone that just, you know, seems to come out of nowhere, maybe Luis Robert next year. Hey, you gotta, that's why we got it. You can't throw away his cards, you know, maybe, maybe Keston, maybe Keston you could throw away, but not, not Louis. I gave a bunch of them away. Well, I didn't, well kind of gave them away. I mean, basically I had like a $5 slab box and it was Keston Hara, Gavin Lux. What else was in there? Like not Austin Meadows, like stupid stuff. But this one guy came and bought it all. Like you know, I usually have those slab boxes like, you know, $30, $60 ones and whatever. And I, so this one, I had a $5 one and this guy came, he bought all those and then he said, how much for these? And I just made a bulk deal and he took them all. So I had no slab boxes after like 12 o'clock on Friday. Wow. Yeah. So I was like, just let me get out. I don't care what's in there. Like I think there's a couple of Zion Williams and PSA 10s and yeah, John Moran's and stuff like that. But honestly, just one less thing to deal with. Focus on the bigger stuff. You know, he might be the smartest guy in the room next year if any of those guys go off or he might be a repacker. One of those two options, right? He's more of a repacker. He's got the U.S. for sure. Well, there you go. And actually, that's a great segue because for our next segment, I want to kind of touch upon that a little bit. But yeah, let's go there right now. Let's move on to hobby headlines. So last episode, Hyung, John and I were talking about our recent experience at the SportCard Expo, especially with how the hobby overall seems to be on a nice uptick. So DC, as a vendor who's set up at multiple shows this past year, have you noticed anything different at the shows this year versus even the last couple of years? And before you answer that question, can you remind us which card shows you've been to this past year? So this year started off with Burbank, the West Coast. So it wasn't at Burbank. The first one is in Anaheim. Then we went to Dallas. Then we went to Fanatics Fest. Then I went to the National. We had Expo and then National. And then Burbank against a West Coast card show in Anaheim. And then Montreal. And then Toronto. Okay. There you go. So you've been to a bunch. And yeah, throughout the year, we always talk about how the hobby seems to be reinvigorated a little bit. More and more newer collectors coming into the space. I wonder if you've seen that translate into the sports card shows you've been attending. So I mean, this year was my first time doing more shows in the US. It was kind of like a trial run to see if this is sustainable to kind of do something like this. I try to go to a show once a month, once every couple months. I didn't set up at all the ones in the US. Some of them I just walk around just to try to acquire stuff. But definitely I would say my first experience in the US was actually quite overwhelming. The amount of stuff that kind of happened. I found the shows were, first of all, there's a lot more cards. I felt like there's just a lot more cards. Definitely a lot more baseball, which is more up my alley anyway. But the sheer amount of people walking around and buying and selling was a lot. So you'd notice the volume in terms of the people coming to the shows. I would say also depending which show, different things were a little bit more dominating. Because we're from Toronto, you see a lot of hockey stuff. I mean, definitely it's a different product. So I thought it was quite reversed. It was great. You don't see as much hockey over there. So then the people looking for hockey are super happy when they see it. But then again, for us, I would much rather have baseball, basketball, football, even to a degree. So just being able to see all that stuff was pretty crazy. And the sizes of the shows, which are local to them, are actually quite large. It's not like our smaller shows here. Every week there's a show, maybe 30, 40 tables, maybe 50 tables. Their bi-weekly shows are like 200 tables. That's monthly shows are 300 tables. It was actually quite crazy. So you got to see a lot of stuff. There's definitely a lot of people there. We found in the US though, that if the show was a Friday, Saturday, Sunday show, that a lot of the times, Sunday, a lot of the vendors actually are not there. I don't know if it's because people are traveling and stuff like that or whatever the situation is. But we found that some people are just not there. So there's empty tables, empty booths, there's some empty tables and booths. Got you. Which I guess, and it's funny, because then you'll see people that are not vendors will put their stuff on there. Which is kind of funny, right. But at the same time, I mean, as we've noticed a lot of these impromptu trade things happen, like in the hallway, definitely in the hotels, like everywhere in the hotels. Yeah, doesn't matter what hotel you're in, even if you're somewhat close to the somewhat close to the venue. Yeah, I will see a slab case. And I'll say, hey, what's for sale? Trying to take a look and grab some stuff. Sure. I think the other thing this year that was very, very more apparent was the was repackers like people that are buying on behalf of repackers repackers themselves. Yeah. stands that are set up, you know, buying stations and stuff like that. Because a lot of people in the US sell through whatnot. So I mean, I'm not as familiar with it. I mean, I've seen I've seen some of the things, but yeah, I've also seen some people auction off stuff like super, super cheap. I don't even understand how they can do it to make money. Like they're taking losses. But then I've also seen stuff go ridiculously high. So now, it's a different type of model. It seems to be working for some people. Yeah. But they have a very specific type of niche slab or price range that they need to hit. Right. So I'm glad you brought up repackers. Because you know, the last time you were on the show, I know, a few months ago, we talked, I feel like we talked about repackers and how it seems to be a growing trend. And, and, you know, even at the show, I said, I want to talk more about repackers. Because, you know, since that discussion, since that conversation we had, you know, PSA is in the repack game, like, you know, bigger companies are, it's not just local dealers, you know, and, and PSA seems to be taking a big chunk of this repack game. I'm wondering if that had any impact on just repackers in general. So, so when we we talked last time at the show, I was saying that, you know, when we as a dealer are trying to buy something, yeah, it became a little bit more difficult, because, you know, what we might typically offer for for for a purchase, yeah, got outbid by a repacker, because a repacker, number one doesn't have the same expenses as us, because they don't have the setup, right? I just walk around and, you know, just try to buy some cards at a higher percentage. Now, PSA has jumped in the game. And it's kind of kicked out some repackers, too. I, I feel like it's like, some something gets eaten, and then something bigger eats it means something bigger eats it. So sure, this is this is what sort of happened. I mean, that's what I felt happened during these the summer. But this Toronto exploit didn't feel like that at all. I mean, there were some US guys that were here. Yeah, that were repackers. I mean, you can tell because the way they offer on something and go show me like a real comp, like a recent comp, let's average it out. And this is what I'm going to pay. And they pay like super strong. Yeah, right. As long as there's comps. So, you know, like, say, for instance, I want to sell like a one soda Bowman Bowman first Chrome. So that's a pretty popular card, which you'll see a lot of comps. And then they'll say, Okay, this is what the last call the last few comps are at, I'm going to give you this percentage. Fine. And you know, based on those comps, it's easy to do the math. But then if I have like a comp, like a card that is really, really no numbered, that the last comp was like a year ago, right? Even though it's a very, very cool card, and I think I could sell it at a premium because like no one else has it and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. The repackers won't buy that card, right? Because everything for them is like a it's like a math number. So sure, you know, and I think they're giving it giving it to like whoever they're working with. I know there's a couple guys in Canada that they work with us repackers. So they're just like pretty much buying stuff here to resell over there. Then there's arena club. And then now PSA is basically taking their advantage by not having to compete with anyone except for the person that subbed the card, which is, you know, I mean, from a business standpoint is quite smart, but I guess we'll see how that goes. Like what are the what's gonna happen? They're just gonna own all the cards, right? Are they going to start destroying them to different stores? Like, I'm curious as to what what happens there? Because how are they selling it? They have to sell within their own marketplace? Are they going to have someone, you know, specifically selling them on eBay and stuff like that? Like, I don't know what's happening there. Yeah, no, those are all really good questions. And you know, we've already seen PSA partner with some other bigger dealers or bigger card stores to sell some of the repack products. So that's one way. But yeah, to your point, I think they probably have other plans as well. Like, they're collecting all these slabs. They got to think of a way to maximize the profit, I guess, with all this inventory they're picking up over the past year. Yeah. And unless though the market drops for those cards, then then what do they do? They start giving us worse grades. So they hold all the 10s. Conflict of interest. Yeah, well, I mean, this is definitely there's some conflict of interest here, right? I mean, the way they do it, that's why they own more than more than one company, they'll just run it under a different, like a subsidiary or something, right. But it's interesting to hear, like, when you when you hear these different changes in the, in the industry, you're wondering what the big picture is that we can only speculate. But, you know, there's obviously some big plan that these guys have hashed out. And in the last, you know, what's it been five years, it's been like this, and you're just starting to see it come to fruition. Yeah, no, I'm really curious to see how everything plays out. And things will continue to evolve, I'm sure. And I was just reflecting on our time when we went to the national this past summer. And I do recall seeing, I'm guessing that they're repackers with their 90% buying at 90% comps, or 100% comps, even. But I didn't see as much at the Toronto show at the sport card Expo. And, and I was asking him, because he was kind of half joking about bringing all his worthless Lewis Roberts slabs, and just looking for a repacker. And, and he mentioned that he didn't really find many repackers set up or, you know, they weren't as easy to find as he thought it, it might have been. And a lot of them are just dealers. So they weren't that interested in those slabs anyway. But I wonder if it's because of what you said, you know, this bigger fish, smaller fish being eaten by bigger fish, and then other bigger fish. I wonder if that's what's playing out. I think it's also possible that there were less us us guys that came because it's the same week as Dallas, Dallas had a show. Sure, sure. So I know some of our buddies had come here for the first couple of days and went to Dallas. Yeah, that's right. Second, second two days. So that could be part of it. I guess what's happening in the US right now. And, you know, people don't want to bring stuff back and tariffs and this and that. I think there's a bunch of different things in play. Yep. But definitely there were less repackers, there were still some. I mean, I had these guys come by and a couple couple people snapped up some very, very big cards. Yeah, just the comps were there. So it was it was it was still good. I mean, I found the show. Actually, this is probably the best Toronto Expo I've ever been at. Oh, yeah. Just for the sheer amount of stuff that transacted, trades and stuff like that. But just really, really high quality stuff, stuff I didn't think, you know, I would maybe sell in Toronto, like, it's like cards that I keep to take to the US specifically. You know, I, I mean, stuff like that happened. And I was pleasantly surprised. Like, I mean, I'm always be I feel I'm always busy at these shows. But this show was particularly, particularly very good. Yeah, no, I'm even as just like a regular attendee, regular guest, we got those vibes too, you know, and, and we got to the Friday show at what 11, my buddy and I, and and john came like maybe 1015 minutes later, we're joking, or he was joking that he parked halfway across the world just to find the spot. Even even we even we as dealers like when we when you come if you don't show up at a certain time, parking very far and there's multiple shows happening at that that's true at the International Center. I mean, the last two days, I got there at 745 just to get a decent spot, especially on the last that you have to go there early just so that because when move out happens, it's like a real pain in the ass if you're like super far and it was snowing. Oh, yeah, that's right. That's right. See, people at the Dallas card show, they don't need to worry about that. But you know, in November in Toronto, that's another thing to think about thinking with la it's not like you're worried about snow happening. Right, right. Um, you know, you brought an interesting point with the Dallas card show happening the same time as the sport card Expo. And I think one of the things I noticed this past year is that there's just more card shows in general, you know, you got all the big ones, of course, and even the bigger ones are adding more dates, but then you got your regional ones and your local ones. Do you think that the hobby can sustain all these card shows at once? Do you think it's just a reflection of, like, we're, we're on a on a peak, like we're going towards a peak. And that's just a result of, you know, seeing all these new card shows. Do you think it's sustainable? So, in Toronto, specifically, I feel that the number of shows happening at the same time, the smaller shows, at least, there's too many of them. And it's actually watering down the quality, so to speak. Now, to be fair, a lot of these Toronto shows that I've been to as of late, that is not the Expo have been more TCG focused. So, you know, like, so when I go into a show, and I and I see all this TCG stuff, I'm pretty much bypassing that anyway. So when I see some sports, yeah, you know, I'm going to pay attention there. But then if there's only like, say, 10% of the of the show is sports. Yeah. And I'm obviously not going to be there very long. Right. And then a lot of the bigger dealers that have bigger stuff, generally won't be doing those shows. Right. So, you know, I guess it all always depends. Now, for a person that's just joining the hobby, and they want to go take a look at stuff. And like, you know, the, you know, the value that they're trying to hit is a little bit different than you know, what some of us are doing. Yeah. Then, you know, the more the merrier, they're going to see more stuff, except, again, when it comes to TCG, maybe they're seeing all the same stuff. It's just a matter of what, what the pricing is like. I know, for instance, there was one weekend, you know, I passed by a show just because it's around Markham, right. So I was I'll just I'll just pass by and see if I happen to hit something right. And at the same time, there was another show that was happening in Ajax or something. And there was another show happening in Vaughn at the same time, right? So three shows in the in the same weekend. And you see the same piece, not that you don't see, well, I'm sure you see some new people, but there's a lot of the same people that might go to each show and whatever. Oh, really? So yeah. So in sports, anyway, I mean, a lot of the sports guys, I feel like I know most of most of the sports people, and they probably know me too. Yeah, that's because of the kind of stuff that we have in our cases. So a lot of people just say, Hey, are you gonna set up the show? I don't need to set up the show. You if you want something, just come find me. I don't need to set up just because I think, to me, it's more of a waste of time. Because it's not the same sort of market that I'm trying to hit anyway. I don't. I don't think there's a lot of people buying a $10,000 card in a, you know, like a weekend show. Yes, yeah, fair enough. And you're right about the TCG. I think, in some ways, the number of card shows that we see is kind of a barometer of what, you know, how hot the hobby is, right? So and we all know, that's why we have Roy and Will, once a month, because Pokemon cards are still super hot. And, and it might be slowing down. But we could, we could sense how hot it is by just literally every weekend, there's a TCG show somewhere, right? And, and a buddy of mine just asked me if I was going to Stouffville show. And I'm like, no, probably not. But it was interesting that there is a show in Stouffville. Now I've actually been to the Stouffville show in the community center. Yes. And I hear it was a pretty sizable show in Stouffville. What's sizable? I don't think it's sizable. I mean, I feel it's for someone that lives in Stouffville. It's sizable. It's like a gymnasium. And it's like it's like maybe let's see, maybe 30 tables. That's it. I guess it's relative. I guess when you go in thinking there's only 10 tables, and you see 30, that's three x what you are. That is true. And I guess they're capturing the crowd of people that are, you know, at the community center, like in the neighborhood. Yeah, local swimming and stuff like that. It's local. I mean, it's fine. Did just just not for me. I've tried. Honestly, sometimes I feel like I can find a diamond in the rough and a couple times I have. Yeah. But yeah, that's part between. That's fair. Oh, another question I want to ask you. So over the past year with the uptick in the hobby, have you noticed anything that's really selling really well, and then maybe other cars that have kind of died down? So, Otani is always good. Of course. This year, Yamamoto, like, did really well. I mean, like, obviously, a lot of this stuff is, is in the past month, just because of World Series and right, right, stuff like that. Vlad, Vlad picked up a bit. I mean, you know, even though they didn't win, and I know we're in Toronto, but I picked up a I picked up a gold Vlad at the show. Topps Chrome. I saw that. Yeah. Yeah, so I felt pretty good about that. Um, specific players. I mean, when B has gone off, gone off, like the rails is crazy. I mean, like doubling up since the season started. I mean, I think that some people had some worries about, you know, the injury, how he come back after injury. It doesn't look like there's any, he looks bigger and he grew up apparently a couple of inches. Yeah. Which is crazy. I'll just to give you an example. I, I had, I had acquired a red, a red Wemby prism when I was in, um, when I was in LA, the last show I, I bought that card, you know, I got in a lot, but I mean, I think it was like 20, like maybe 2,700 or 2,500 us the time. And I bought it, I got it for like 2k. So I, I sold it like literally 20 minutes after I got it for 2,500. Okay. I think it's 5,000 now. That's crazy. That's crazy, man. Yeah. And, uh, yeah, like we were talking about, um, Wemby being like the next Otani when it comes to, you know, like it's, it's expensive now, but I could see a scenario where it's going to be even be more expensive next year. It's quite possible. I mean, if you look at Otani, every time I get one and if I buy, sell it or trade it away, literally the next time I try to replace it, try to get the same one, it's doubled, it's already doubled. Yeah. That's nuts. Like, I mean, one of these cards I'm going to show you later is actually funny because I traded this away at the last Toronto expo and I, and I got some crazy number for it. Right. And I was thinking, okay, there's only reason why I would get rid of this is. Cause I'm getting double the value. Right. I reacquired this card, the exact card from the person I traded it to, because they upgraded to another Otani, you know, that I got and I took it back at literally double the price, double the price. That's crazy. And like you just teased, our next segment will be, you know, an opportunity for you to showcase some of your cards, but before we get there and just to wrap up the segment, how would you describe 2025 in terms of the, you know, based on your sports card show experience and where the hobby is, uh, yeah. How would you, how would you describe this past year? I don't, I don't hear like any recession. People talk about recession. No one, that is not possible because like the amount of money flowing in, in all these shows, it's crazy, crazy. Even in, even in Toronto, like Toronto, like, like I said, I've said this before on the show is like, sometimes I started doing these us shows just because I didn't think anybody would buy these in Canada, but this show proved me wrong because there's quite a few, five, five figure cards that moved for me. Wow. And there's other people that I know have, like my buddy, I know I was listening to the pod, so my buddy that owns the golf stuff, Michael. Yeah. Yeah. I saw his booth. Yeah. Six figures. Johnny talked about it on our last episode and six figures. That's insane. That's I'm saying that a lot these days. That's insane. That's nuts. I think, I think, cause we used to make fun of them a lot. Cause we're like, who wants golf, you know, but being the only golf guy, like literally like the golf guy in Canada, he has, he has, or had every single card you can think of, like this man, this man cracked like 200 cases of exquisite cases. That's crazy. Yeah. I, I, well, I, it stopped, stopped me on my tracks. I was just going through the different aisles at the sport card expo. And I think it was like only golf cards. And then I look, I'm like, how many Tiger woods autograph cards are in this, in this display case? That's not even his whole collection. That's the crazy part. Those are his doubles and triples. I don't have, I have no words. Well, trust me when you, when you see it now, because like, there's some really cool stuff, right? Like upper deck golf exquisite. There's like Jordan autos. Sure. You know, Rory autos, like whatever, but the Jordan autos themselves is just like crazy. Yeah. And you don't see them often. And when you see it, it's cool. And the way golf has kind of taken off in the last, you know, couple of years, like really, really mainstream now. Um, you know, every, every one of them all wants a Tiger woods. All day. Yeah, for sure. For sure. All right. Uh, well, um, you know, it was good to kind of reminisce about sport card and even this past year, you know, we had a great time in, in the national, in Chicago, I'm hoping to go enjoy that your first time, because I know we always talk about it, I was like, yo, you have to go, was it not, was it not crazy? Like surpass anything you could have imagined. It was the best. No, I'm going to, I'm going to admit it. Yeah. Like, uh, I don't know if you heard our last week's episode once again, but, but, you know, we're talking about the, um, the mantle hobby awards and you know, we're going through, uh, what's the best card show. And I just, I think I said it in that episode that the national lived up to its billing, you know, you hear everyone say the same thing. And then you're like, okay, is it being embellished? You know, are they, is it hyperbole? And then you go there, you're like, no, it's the real deal. So, so I think of expo and you think expo is big. Like national is like literally five times the size. Yeah, no, for sure. And I'm a witness to it this year. And, uh, we're talking about fanatics fest being the same time. It's a world cup final. So it's going to be crazy. And I think, um, I'm probably going to pass on it this year, uh, just because of the craziness, but I'm West coast. We're going to be on West coast. Yeah. And it's, it's right before the national, right. So I'll have to work something out in terms of scheduling because it's so close together. But, um, but yeah, if I'm going to do two shows next year, 2026, right now in the lead is the national. And I wanted, I want to definitely try the West coast car show at least once. So, so we'll be both, we'll be at both of those for sure. We've already decided. Cause that, that weekend is three shows as Dallas West coast and, and, uh, New York fanatics best. So we've already decided we've already booked our stuff for West coast. Okay. West coast car show. Just, um, the one, uh, around the national that's in Anaheim near Disneyland. Yeah. That's the one that is, um, TCG and sports and the one, the, the earlier one that they have in Ontario is just sports and they had, I think they have one that's just TCG. Okay. So the big one we're going to has both. Nice. It's very, very big to that, that, that venue is very large. Man. I got to go. I asked because I'll probably, you know, um, I could ask the wife about going to national, but two weeks later. I got to make it a family trip. So that's the only way I think that's what I'm asking. It's in the Anaheim one, uh, location, right? So, all right. I'll, I'll work on that. I'll work on that. I got, I got, uh, what, seven, eight months to, to make it happen. Don't wait. I was asked for a Christmas present. That's a Christmas present. Oh, great idea. All right, Tim, let's go on to our next segment. It's show and tell. All right. So again, since we have DC here today, I thought we can do a show and tell segment of some of the cards that you picked up, uh, recently at the expo. And, uh, we'll play this video on YouTube, this segment on YouTube as well. So, um, uh, so anyone watching it on YouTube can actually see the cards, but for our podcast listeners, we'll describe what the cards are. And, uh, I want to also ask DC why he picked them up and what he plans to do with them, whether, you know, it's cracking and resubmitting, we always joke, you're the crack resubmit King of cards, and, um, or if you're going to flip it at the next card show, or are you planning to keep it long-term? So yeah, let's, uh, take it away. Let's see your first card. Okay. So first one is, I love the stuff, Steph Curry, 2009 Bowman numbered. I guess, um, this, this card is interesting. I mean, sorry, what's the grade? It's a seven. Okay. Yep. Okay. I got it in a trade. So what happened was a big card came to the booth. I got a, uh, 2009 tops Chrome, Steph Curry, PSA nine. So I, you know, I, I bought it. It was a, it was a big card. Um, my idea was to take it and take it and trade it in the, in the U S maybe sell in the U S but some guy came who was a, who was like a person that I met in Montreal. And it's funny, this, this is one thing you can never judge a book by its cover because every time we've spoken, there's been never been a card over like $500 we've discussed. Okay. So he's like, I want this, I want this card. What, what, uh, what can we do? We do trading cash. I'm like, okay, what kind of stuff are you going to show me? I'm thinking I'm not taking a bunch of $500 cards. So he pulled out a LeBron tops Chrome, PSA 10. Yeah. This curry and this curry, so just a regular tops PSA nine, but the values of those tops nine of these curries have doubled in the last six months. Wow. Okay. So I took these three cards and cash. Um, it, for me, it was fine because actually this card I think has a very good chance of being a BGS nine, five. Okay. Yeah. Nice. So I should be able to, assuming this happens, it'll increase the value from whatever, 35, 30, 37, 38 Canadians are like 55. So, so this show, um, uh, I think you saw this, but in Montreal, I bought a PSA nine, Oh, Tony, uh, refractor batting refractor PSA nine. Okay. Um, I cracked it out and it came back at nine, five, be just nine, five. Yeah. Uh, so that plus the world series, when the timing of it all, I literally got that like a month ago. Um, I won't say for how much you can, you can kind of take a look at whatever comps were around that time, but you know, one of the, one of the repack guys came in and bought it. Nice. Like very, very quickly because I had, I think in the expo, I'm, I probably had the most Otani stuff at one point or another. Yeah. I got a ton, man. Almost a half case worth of Otani stuff that I was acquiring as the show went on, because when I started, I had maybe three Otani pieces and I think I ended up at one time I had maybe 10. Well, I went by your booth that one time and you had just acquired like three of them at one time. So those would be part of the show Intel too. So, okay. All right, let's go. Um, so this one, it's a Yogi bearer rookie. Oh, interesting. I know it's a little hard to see, but yeah, it's great. Like the centering is great. It's an old, it's an old BVG slab. So this is probably a candidate to, to change to, um, maybe because the PSA but you know, I, I've been on this vintage kick. It was just a, it was a card again, another guy I met in Montreal. Um, so this is the thing, like I'm doing all these shows, people are starting to remember me. So they come and find me and they go, Oh, I know you want vintage. I know you like this and that. Um, and this guy never sells stuff, but I guess, you know, we were talking about maybe trading towards that, uh, 51 maze I have that the PSA six, right. So he's gonna, you know, we exchange contact contact information and we might work on that, but in the meantime, he, I got this car and I felt pretty good with the purchase because that's not a card you see often. Yeah. No, it's the first time I'm seeing it. And, um, no, it's interesting. You know, you, you, when you think about cracking and resubmitting, um, you go both ways, hey, BGS to PSA, if it makes sense. Oh yeah. You can do both ways. I just think a lot of these older, like the older slabs, um, there's a chance for a lot of these. I don't know if the grading system was just different back then or whatever, but you know that, you know, like it's, it's definitely in its original, original form. I mean, like I said, I, even when I comped it out, when I look at the photos of this particular card, they were not centered like this. So just really, really happy to get it. Nice. I like that card. Okay. This is a big one. Yes. Wow. There's a green Piedmont, uh, T2O6 Thai Cob. And I guess, yeah. And green. So you don't see it in green very often. The L you see the red more. Yes. Um, and the centering on this, I was, I was just like super, super happy. Like I just bought this, like I paid something stupid, but, but to be honest, I don't know if I'll ever get one like this again. So, um, it's funny, this guy was just walking by and you know, like sometimes I just say, Hey, what's in the box. You know, I'm just joking around, like just trying to spur up a conversation. And then he sees the vintage. He goes, Oh, you're a vintage guy. Oh, you'll like this then. And he pulls this out. I'm like, Oh, yeah. Is it, is the green more rare than the red or yes, the green is more rare than the red. Okay. So, and like, you can see the centering is like, it's actually pretty good for vintage, especially. Yeah. I mean, this card is like so old, right? Like 1909, it's a hundred, 115, 116 years old. I see. You're still on that vintage kick. Yeah. That's, that's pretty cool. I, I've, you've seen vintage stuff lately has been going up quite, quite a bit. Um, shoot. Yeah. Like Babe Ruth stuff. I mean, even stuff that I, when I sold at the, in, in LA, I mean, to get that May 6th, I had to, I sold my, my 33 Gaudi Ruth. I sold that 49 Jackie Bowman and the Hank Aaron and all those cars have just gone up like it's, it's been nuts. So it's crazy. Vintage. Wow. Okay. Good to know they're not making. it anymore. So it's true. Yeah, I think things are starting to pop up. You're seeing them a little bit more people are finding their stuff in their attics and stuff like that. People are bringing into the to the market. Yeah, there's a very, there's a very big niche for this stuff. And, you know, when I go to the US, I there's a lot of guys that even though I'm newer to that vintage game, yeah, they appreciate the pieces that I bring because they're like, bro, you already did all the work. You know, you found all the really, really centered ones and stuff like that. You know, just really happy. So I got a good for that, too. That's cool. And you know, it's it's a good point you bring up with what I was thinking about was that as the hobby grows, you know, you get collectors from not just modern but vintage car collectors coming out and just Yeah, it's just amazing to see how many more coming out and just showing their cards. I think a lot of collectors that have been collecting for a while have actually started moving towards vintage. I know a lot of these, even the people that I deal with, interesting. They've started to acquire some vintage pieces, even if it's just like big five names, like, you know, man, so Ruth, like Jackie maze, you know, Clemente, even if you just start picking up from there, you go and then you find find that a lot of these vintage guys that are year specific to, like some people are like, I'm only collecting 69 OPG or 70 OPG. And then other people are I'm only collecting pre 60s. Yeah. And stuff like that. Like for me, like I, I buy pre 60. So that's just because I started like that. I don't want to start going into to something later. But, you know, I've been feeling pretty good about that stuff. And the pieces have been have been doing really, really well. I think it's also tied tied with the buyers because the buyers are generally that by vintage are older. So the disposable income is different. Number one, number two, the nostalgia value is always there. Of course. And that's why they're paying for it. Man, I think I might be priced out of certain vintage cards already, but certain stuff, but all you got to do is trade, trade, I trade, I trade a lot of stuff. Like, I mean, you'll see a lot of a lot of my big pieces, I end up trading, I you have to trade good stuff to get good stuff, right? It's only it's only right, right, logical. So you just got to weigh out like, what's what's easier to get? What? What is more replaceable? Hmm. Well, my goal for 2026, then is to pick up one nice vintage card. It's probably gonna be a Jackie. I've always wanted a Jackie Robinson. So a lot of history behind it. You can keep me accountable to that next year. Yeah, for sure. All right. Next card. Okay. So it's a show. Hey, I saw this one in person. Yes. So this is pretty good. It's a game material autograph card from 2023. Number out of 50. What's that? From what's that? This is from I think it's just from regular tops. Okay. So there's a patch auto. Yeah. But it's a game worn. And nowadays, you can't tell anyone to sit here. Not for many specific game event or season, but it's it's this game. Game usements memorabilia on it. Okay. Which is great, because any Otani stuff is good. But I think the reason why I like this one is because I have this one too. So I have two of them. And you got it from the same guy, right? I bought it from the same guy. Yeah. You know, sometimes when people come and they're like, you know, who would want this DC would want those? If it was DC, and they bring them over. And then I started talking to him. Yeah. Then, you know, we do a deal, we build some rapport, do the deal. And he's the guy I bought the Steph Curry tops chrome from, because the next day, he brought me more stuff. Oh, nice. Yeah. So super happy about that. We'll keep in contact. And we'll do some other things together. For sure. I'm seeing like a general pattern here, you know, with you doing more shows, you're just running into more people and making more relationships. And it leads to sales. I think that's what it is. Generally speaking, a lot of is relationship building. If you have a good experience with somebody, you're gonna remember them and you want to you want to deal with them again. So even this show, there was a couple guys from the States, that, well, he, at first, he didn't recognize me. But then he remembered my voice. And I go, you met in Dallas, you met in Dallas, because he was talking about Clementine, his dad and stuff like this. And then we started talking. And he goes, Yeah, we didn't get a deal done at that time. But we remember each other. And like, this is stuff that we can end up doing. That's cool. You know, that was really cool. Yeah, for sure. Okay. Another Otani on card original auto luminaries out of what out of 10 out of 15. But look at that patch. Yeah, three is a triple patch. Yeah. Well, it's one patch under three different things. But I think it's one patch. Oh, I see. No, it's sick. It's like 1234 colors. But the most importantly is the Yes. So this was one of the cards I traded. So that mini that that tops mini rookie auto that I got in Burbank. Yep. I traded that to the guy that I gave him this last year. Okay, so this is 2019 tops. tops chrome cup auto. It's a 1010. So the pop on this is super low. Yeah. But on the 1010, I think it's only two because some of these PSA 10s, the auto is off the sticker or it's just crap. Right? So this this one, I didn't really want to give away last year. But because I got such a good deal. I couldn't say no. And now I got it back the exact card. Did you is the exact card I got? Oh, right. Yeah. And this was the other one I got with it. Plus I got a jack like 5055. Jackie or 56. Jack, no 55. Jackie. And an Aaron judge, rookie auto. Some cash, some other stuff. You know, for the for the luminaries, those come in case straight. Do you normally keep it encased? Or do you grade those? I never have it long enough to to grade out. So I mean, I'll take a look at it to see if it is but it's a thick card. And generally speaking, these cards don't do very well. Yeah. So I find that leaving it inside the luminaries cases is actually okay. Interesting. Yeah. But you know, who knows? I'll see. I just don't want to wait six months for for something to come back. Right? It's a backlog. Yeah. So you limited me to seven cards. So we can go on forever. But yes, I'll show you this big one. Here we go. I saw this one person to Yeah, Patrick Holmes. Yeah, go ahead. Our RPA out of two with the helmet tag. For what set? It's from Phoenix football, which is not a great set, but it's out of two. Right? And the pad is cool. Yeah, patches cool. And to nine five. And how'd you get that? Rookie. So one of my one of my buddies that I dealt with before he's like, Hey, DC, I have this big Mahomes card. Interested. I go, I don't know. It just depends what you want for it. Right? Because it's really hard to value those kind of those kind of cards. Yeah. So I traded a bunch of stuff that, you know, maybe I'm not like, I get good value for it, because I'm not into it for as much, but more liquid cards for him like being a McDavid young guns, McDavid, SP game used auto rookie. I'm trying to think what else I gave him like, Oh, the big, the big card that went out was the Shea contenders out of 20 out of 25. Right? Orange, orange color match. I don't remember what else was in there. There was some cash too. But it was it was a very, very big deal. But to give you some perspective, this card during COVID. So for 140,000 us, that's crazy. Yeah, this exact card, this exact card. Oh, okay. Yeah. Okay. So I mean, that gives me some sort of really, really good idea of where I think I can get for this in the US. But I feel like this is definitely a US card. Yeah. It's also like a timing card. Like I can hold this forever. That's not a big deal. Like that other Mahomes one on one I have. Like, they look really, really good together. But these are definitely cards, us cards that have to go to like a super collector or someone that just wants to spend because I think like the other one, I think I get at least 30 like 25 to 30,000. I think this one I got to make 50,000 at least. Yeah. I mean, it's sorry. Did you say the guy you got it from? Is he from the States? Or no, he's not. Oh, he isn't. Okay. Just I don't I don't know how he acquired it or what what he's into it for. But yeah, you know, both of everyone finds value in different things, right? If I think that, you know, he might be into it for 10,000. I am not a lot. And he maybe he did well, because, you know, he's getting a bunch of freeing up with a bunch of liquid cards. So basically, I buy into the card for something big. But I think the market and the way the shows that I go to, I think I can move this for something. At the end of the day, it's just about who do you think you can move this card to a lot of the times when I have a card, I already have an idea where it's going. Yeah, sure. Yeah, you have a buyer in mind. Kind of. Yeah, yeah. That's a good tip. And I love the show and tells every time you come on, we always do this. Whenever you come on DC, this is going to be a reoccurring segment. So one of the things we'll always, we'll always know what to do. So I love it. And I love getting the updates. Because the next one you're on, you'll be like, yeah, I just moved that Mahomes two of two cards. You know, that's, I can envision that already happening in a future pod episode. But I mean, I don't know how they're gonna do this year. I don't, I don't think they're gonna make it to the Super Bowl. But who knows stranger things have happened with Mahomes Mahomes is goaded already. I hope the Mahomes market I don't know if it's going down or up. But I'm hoping a mediocre Kansas City Chiefs season forces prices to go down so I can pick up a Mahomes because I think he's legit as well. So we'll see. The optic is pretty cheap. Optic PSA 10 is like 1500 not even take a look. We'll take a look. Or you can search and get a silver PSA 10 or I want an auto but I know I'm gonna have to pay pay big bucks for that. But yeah, let me do my research. Like I said, if you're watching the YouTube you've seen this cards on the screen. I'll include the link in the show notes so you guys can take a look for yourselves. Alright, let's finish off this episode with our regular weekly segment we call pick one. And DC I know this might be your first time doing a pick one right so for me to come up with something I mean whenever you do the shows I pick in my head I go No, why are you picking that one? I'm sure you're not the only one. And people message us on like, you know, I think I would have gone with the other one. But I love hearing different opinions of each of these cards. And it's why we love doing this segment because there's a wide range of opinions. But yeah, as a guest host, do you want to start off or pick one segment? Yeah, so I know we talked about this a little bit before. What I was thinking, sticking with the vintage theme is like, would you rather have a 1952 tops Mickey Mantle PSA one? Yeah. Or would you rather have a 1951 Bowman Mantle PSA five, both of them hovering around 30k I think we were talking about yes, recent comps. Yeah, yeah. So I mean, we'd have to look at the the photos of the actual slab just to see because the grade is not they're not all equal. I mean, I've talked about this a lot too when we talk about vintage but you know, I have I've seen lower grade, nicer looking cards than like a higher grade counterpart because like to me for vintage the corners is not as big a deal as a centering or the color. Sure. I can deal with a crease if it's like in the corner as long as it's not over the the face, you know, stuff like that. I think it's a big deal. But you know, if if all things were equal, what would you rather have it comes down to do you prefer the 52? Like what do you think is the quote unquote real rookie? Which which photo do you like better? And are you only about the grade? Or are you about the card? Because this so there's so many, so many angles to this to this question. That's what makes it hard. Yeah. Yeah. Man, I, I, you know, when you kind of mentioned this pick one before we start recording, I keep going back and forth to tell you the truth. Yeah. In terms of the card, the image, I prefer the 1952 tops, it's way more iconic for me. But I think there's like a threshold that's got to cross in terms of grade, like a PSA one. And to your point, some PSA ones are better than other PSA ones, right? So that matters. But it's PSA one for a reason. So it's got to be in rough, pretty rough shape, right? And the PSA five for, you know, obviously, it's not going to be it's not going to be gem mint, but vintage it looks pretty good like a PSA 5 and up right? 5 is pretty is usually very very good for vintage yeah it's it's relative that way so I had the luxury of looking at the cards because I was looking at the comps but I think I think looking at the cards the appeal of you know how clean it is and and what the grades are I'm actually gonna go for the 1951 Bowman PSA 5 and I like it that I can say I have the actual real rookie okay the real rookie all right with debate again later if you want to start talking about Jordans but that's true with the star and yeah so that's what I'm going with I'm curious to see what you're what you're gonna choose so I've owned the 51 Bowman before so for me there I would go with the 52 and and the reason is is because I've never had it so that that is part of the reason and honestly I find when I when I look for vintage and buy vintage and collect vintage more of it for me is the hunt of the card I find that when I'm able to find a lower grade card and it looks really really good I actually feel like it's not like monetary like for me it's just the actual hunting of it and finding it that actually I feel so much satisfaction so when people see a lot of the cards in my case when the vintage stuff is like they might have some lower grades but they say wow this is better than what this grade says I give me that actually makes me feel really good because then you know I think like well I did a good job looking for it but also on top of that it means that I feel I can pump up the car I like getting value for for what I bought right that makes sense for me yeah that's fair all right so we split on that the only thing I don't like about the Bowman is it's horizontal that's the only yeah but I mean you know I have the mazes also horizontal so I mean they would look good together that's true if you got both yeah yeah all right that's a good one I like that one I might maybe I'll put up a poll to see what people choose yeah I'm curious to see yeah let's see what the what the audience says all right mine and I'm interested in your perspective because as a dealer as a vendor I wonder what's more value to you and we were talking about this off the top Treya Savage you know for sure he was a hot commodity his cards were a hot commodity at the recent sport card Expo but for $3,000 you can get the gold Treya Savage solid gold yep gold solid gold true gold yeah PSA 10 yep none of these ones I'm gonna say have auto grade so just a PSA 10 okay 3k gold or would you want two of those if you get two of those okay or one red PSA 10 for double for about 6,000 a little over 6,000 I rather have the red over two golds automatic red those those too easy why because there's 48 other golds there's only four other reds but it's I don't know if the card being liquid has anything to do well with your decision I just goals can move pretty quick right gold can move but again something that I've realized and and more so this year is that there's always a buyer for everything so if you have the right thing especially if it's something like really really rare yeah you're gonna get more money for it just you have to be able to be disciplined to sell at the right time like right now I'm selling all your savage stuff like anyone buying them now is just gonna be holding the bag I believe that yeah well I mean I'm not saying he's gonna be like Manoa or Romero yeah but that means I mean like legit there's a nonzero chance that could happen or it could be great yeah it's a lot of possibilities right and he's a pitcher and he's a pitcher so I mean like I said if I had a year savage stuff I'm selling it right now the maximum and I would come by it again later that's a smart move all right for me it's easy I'm getting the red as well but I thought it would be more interesting like from a vendor perspective but yeah I know it's a good point that there's a buyer for everything you might just have to wait a bit longer to get rid of the red it's possible but I think right now if you like especially in Toronto yeah there was probably someone that would have bought that red right away I mean the golds are good too but you have to sell two items instead of one that's true let alone the same one yes all right I'll think of a harder one next time you're on the pod no I think of I think of Pokemon Mario and how instantly we just answer that question and you were just really so surprised and actually quite upset that we I didn't know you guys love Mario Pikachu that much I underestimated that love for Mario Pikachu I think everyone just looks Mario if you had to choose between Mario and Luigi I know it sucks but sucks for Luigi but I feel bad for Luigi no Luigi love no hobby lover Luigi someone should make a movie and I always talked about this if I was ever a director I would want to film from the view of the second fiddle guy you know be cool yeah different like in this in this case like what goes through Luigi's head when when Mario always gets all the action right sure yeah or you know like say you know James Martin you know James Marsden yeah he's the guy like every in every movie that he either dies or he loses the girl like he always loses the girl to someone else mm-hmm I would want to shoot a movie about what's going through James Marsden's head cuz he's typecast he's typecast as the guy that always loses I know James Mars he's played the lead guy a couple times he's played you know I'll give it to you that he's usually the yeah the guy who is the douchebag or you know I mean like yeah and there's a yeah it doesn't can't compete with the main character but just just interesting I like that idea I like it you should do a movie on that James Marsden new business new business James Marsden is Luigi I think we should end the show right there I don't think we can top that James Martin as Luigi but DC always a pleasure I love that you can always come on the show when I ask and love that you're a fan of the pod you've been mentioned that several times so I listen to it every time I get in the car when on Tuesdays and every other Friday I put it on I love it and we'll definitely have you back on for sure if not it's November so we're probably looking into the new year but beyond that we'll be at card shows together too so I'm looking forward to that as well yes sir yes sir all right that's the end of the show thanks to all our listeners as usual we appreciate you guys and we'll have a brand new episode for you guys next week talk to you then bye hey thanks for listening to cards to the moon we'd really appreciate you subscribing to our podcast wherever you listen to your podcasts and you can also connect with each of us on instagram at five card guys or you can follow young and integrity sports cards or John at trade you at recess you can also check us out at five card guys calm thanks again and hope to connect soon