“This Is So Stupid” + The $1.28 Million Celebrini Debate + Does Player Greatness Even Matter Anymore?

Michael Jordan. Sports cards is a lifestyle Sports cards and we live now. Jeremy Lee in the building and every guess that you ever needed Sports cards after hours Keep the hobby heated Updates, homie. Talk like you never seen it Sports cards live and I could ever beat it Sports cards is a lifestyle Sports cards and we live now. Welcome to another episode of Sports Cards Live with your host, Jeremy Lee. Everybody, please welcome back to the show Mr. Chris Hoja. Hi, Chris. Hello, Jeremy. Hello, Clark. Hi, Chris. And please, everybody, welcome back to the Shimmer. Joshua Adam. Hey, Jeremy. Clark. Nice to meet you. Christopher, nice to see you again. Josh, great to see you again. The man of all men, I believe you were once called a week ago. I would definitely side check that. All right, and we are into the closing stretch of the show here. So, guys, before we get into anything else, there was a comment that came up about almost half an hour ago, but I think it's a fun con. A fun comment. It was put up by situational Adventures, and it has to do with we. We've seen. Now, Chris, maybe you can confirm or actually, I can do it myself here while we have you on the screen, but why don't we actually bring up card ladder here, guys? And I'm gonna go to sales, and I'm gonna go, oh, look at celebrating gold right there. Chris, what's the best way for me to find the highest selling hockey cards? Is it going through here? No, there's. There's not. There's not a good system that sorts them by sports. So just type this. I. What I did was I created an open parenthesis. I typed in Gretzky, comma, ovechkin, comma, and I tried typing in all the names of hockey players I think could sell for a high price. And then close the parentheses when you're done, and then it will give you search results for each of those separate terms. All right. Price, obviously. Yu-Gi-Oh All right, so let's see what comes up. All right, so here we go. So the card today sold for 1 million 281, which puts it number three. Barely number three. Right. 9,000 bucks behind. Barely number three behind. A PSA 10 opici Gretzky, 3.75 million in March of 2021 and a PSA Topps. Rookie in December of 2020. I believe that was Patrick bet David's card that he sold 1.29 million. Number three is another of the tops. Gretzky's PSA 10s at 1.2. So today, a player who has played, I think, two seasons, a player who has really done nothing yet not to nothing against Macklin. He is an all timer. He is a great player. He will be a great player if he has a long healthy career. But to put him at number three ahead of like even the highest Bobby or card sold for 276. Look at this. It's all gr. The highest selling Gordie how card 205,000 the highest selling. A complete set of 0506 the cup with the Crosby and the Ovechkin RPAs. Two hundred and ten thousand dollars. It's. It's absolutely staggering. The the here's the most expensive like similar card is the Crosby 1 of 1PMG Gold164 now not a rookie year card like the Macklin Celebrini is. But it doesn't matter guys. It's just very interesting that that's where we are at right now in the hobby. So the question first of all I would love to get Josh and Chris's reaction to that sale. Why don't we do that first? Let's get your. And then I'm going to bring up situational adventures question. So Chris let's start with you. What do you. What does this, what does this tell you? What, what do you what what. I know the way you think Chris. I, I'm excited to hear it. But where does your brain go when you look at the statistics like we just showed and today's. And today's sale on Goldin highest hockey sale of the last half decade. Very exciting. Anytime a card kind of can elevate a category by breaking the seven figure mark is, is pretty exciting. The, the winner claimed it already on his Instagram story. Jeremy, you said it might have been Benjamin B. It was, it was in fact him. Congratulations Benjamin B. Seriously, that's. Yu-Gi-Oh Thank you Chris. Congrats. You know the, the. The player to player comparison thing is always fraught. So you know I, I want to congratulate him. I, I love the fact that it was a PSA authentic that there was no number grade doing any of the lifting here. This was merely an authenticated card. And I'm looking like at McDavid, right? Like McDavid's highest sale on the public record is 405000 for a PSA 10 of his cup RPA out of 99. And that was about seven or eight months ago. And then his 2015 Ultimate Collection Rookie Spectrum Teal Autograph Shield one of one PSA Authentic that sold for 305000 about 15 months ago. So you know, those are some McDavid numbers, but then here comes celebrity, just, you know, completely resetting, potentially, the hockey market. It's incredible. Josh. What? And I'm just adding a few names I see in the chat. McDavid, Vezina. I don't think that'll be in there too high. And then Eddie Shore from Mike Petty. That one-of-one be that high, but let's add them in. Josh, what do you think? I mean, Josh, you do hockey, basketball, baseball. You do it all. You're an OG collector. What are you. Oh, he's already shaking his head. What do you think, buddy? This is so stupid. I can't even believe someone's spending this much money on this card. You could, like, you just showed you could buy the entire 0506 set with probably the best player in the past 25 years, Crosby, and. And. And the leading goal score of all time in the same set. They're rookies for less than this and still have money to buy a bobby or rookie. I mean, it's completely idiotic. I mean, he's just calling like he sees it. Clark, any comments from you based on what you've heard here? And then the sale again, I. I gotta lean towards Josh Joshua. I mean, I was great for the seller, but. But I do wonder if those, you know, Gretzky Opici PSA 10s ever go back on the market. I mean, it'll reset. Like, it'll definitely go a lot higher. Right. So I wonder if this cell in some way helps those cards, too. So we're in a whole new era right now in terms of where, you know, how much cards cost. Yu-Gi-Oh Yu-Gi-Oh So back to the top here. Now that I've added McDavid, we can see that it's all Gretzky's until you get to McDavid now at 405, 000 back in December, and Ovechkin at 381, 000 about 16 months ago. And. And then another McDavid Shield auto, it looks like, for $305,000 a year, just over a year ago. Like, I. I don't. Can't believe I forgot McDavid in there. By the way, whoever shouted out McDavid, thank you for that, but, Yu-Gi-Oh it's. It's. It's. It's. It's incredible. It's incredible. Now, I understand the comments, like, about, like, it's. It's idiotic or it's stupid and this and that, but I think you. I think one thing we have to consider is who the buyer is and what their resources are. 1.3 million. When. If you've got 16,000 Bitcoin sitting in your, in your wallet or whatever, this is nothing. It's six bitcoins or whatever, or seven. Whatever it is, I don't even know what it's at right now. It's 15 bitcoins. You know what I mean? Like when. If you got tens of thousands of them, does it even matter? I don't know. I. I don't know Benjamin B. At all. I did hear him on the Hockey Cards Gong show podcast like a year ago maybe. Or maybe not a year ago, maybe eight months ago. In disguise. The person is in disguise. And I feel like he's a crypto billionaire kind of person. That's my take on it. And if he's watching, let us know if I'm right or wrong. But it might be a drop in the Beckett to him. That is another. That's a signal, though, guys, of what type of money the hobby is attracting. And it's having an impact on the rest of us because it's driving up other prices as we are seeing when Macklin Celebrini Regular PSA 10 young gun outsells a Crosby or a McDavid. I don't know if that that's the case, but it might may as well be the case. If not, it's close. So it's really, really interesting in that way. Before I. Any responses to that piece of the type of money that's coming in? No. Okay, then the question that I was going to ask from again mentioned situational is is this comment right here, he says that Young Guns Malone Celebrini or the Franken Wagner both sold for roughly $1.3 million. Which one would you rather own for $1.3 million? It's interesting because the Wagner is a Franken Wagner. It is a fully restored, rebuilt, reconstructed card that has a donor card. Basically had a. A transplant performed upon it by a car doctor of sorts, a restoration specialist. When this was done in the 90s, I believe. one-of-one it's an incredible situation where we're comparing a Macklin Celebrini one of one Young Guns card versus a haunted Swagner T206. Now let's vote. Which card would you rather have? All in favor of the Wagner, put up your hand. Okay. Everybody would rather have all. Is it even close? Like, is it even close? No, it's not. And I think that speaks to the buyer here. Benjamin B. Is buying a lot of cards that are very ultra Modern and are the hot cards of the month, the week, the year, the, the flavor of the month cards. And that's totally fine. He has every right to do it. So it's interesting. But Yu-Gi-Oh I'm definitely going the way of the Wagner. So, Yu-Gi-Oh it's, it's, it's an interesting, interesting sale tonight, guys. I, I thought it might reach a million because of where the hobby's at.1.3. I guess I'm not surprised. Christina's PC says Celebrini all day for her. Josh. Christina, they taught you nothing. It's okay. The bagel train's coming to an end. Christina. That's the end of the bagels. I see a lot of calls for the Wagner in the. Bob Boozle's taking the Wagner himself as well. So is Brian Stuke says Wagner isn't going to get injured. Celebrity could get injured. Let me rephrase that for you, Stukes celebrity will get injured. He will get injured. The question is how bad and how long will he be out? He will be injured. It's almost inevitable at these point in times. POJ says, I don't want any card that's been restored. More than fair. More than fair. Laura's taking the Wagner. Robster star says Wagner more secure with more upside potential. Sure. As an investment, I want the Wagner. As a collector, I also still want the Wagner though. Put on either hat. I want it both times myself. Josh is dying. Absolutely. Absolutely. So who was the under bidder is a great question. Christina says Josh has literally taught me nothing. This is true. Yu-Gi-Oh So, all right, that's kind of the new story of the night now. Is Celebrini becoming the almost tied for the second most expensive hockey card of all time? And the card is a year old. That's pretty incredible. What's on your mind, guys? Josh, Chris, Chris, what's, what's on your mind this week, buddy? I mean, I know you're, I know you're consuming content. I know you're, you're writing content. Are we gonna see another hoage cast anytime soon? Yu-Gi-Oh Yu-Gi-Oh it's, we took July off for travel and shows, but the HoJ cast will be back maybe very, very soon. And I had a few more thoughts on the Franken Wagner, you know, and the celebrity, or are we moving on from that? No, I, I, I welcome the comments. And Clark, if you, when you're welcome to stay along as long as you want, Clark, but if you want to run, just let us know and you're welcome to jump off, but please Stick around if you can. I'm actually gonna drop off, but, Yu-Gi-Oh just because it's past midnight now, I realize, but, Yu-Gi-Oh Great to meet you guys. See you, man. Clark, good to have you. We'll be in touch. Thank you so much, buddy. Appreciate you coming on. Thank you. All right, bud. All right, Chris. Go ahead, buddy. Yu-Gi-Oh I Beckett the Franken Wagner because I think I could most easily resell it at that price. That's. That's why I took that one. I really don't have a huge desire to own either of those, and so I would immediately sell it and use the proceeds to buy the things that more closely align with what I like. But with regards to the celebrity, here's the appeal. Besides all the great points that you made about what that price might be relative to the buyer's budget and how that's an important consideration, here's the appeal of the Celebrini. It's. It's certainly got a claim to being one of his very best cards, which is very exciting. It's got the young guns lineage. It's a one of one. I think it's the only one of one to that card and so on. It's got the gold going for it. It's. It's beautiful. Very exciting player. The buyer is clearly very passionate about the player. And so now the buyer is positioned with, you know, a tremendous card of maybe his favorite player who has maybe 10, 15, 20 years of career ahead of him, and he just gets to be, in some respects, one of the great collectors, one of the great fans, one of the great followers, one of the great advocates for Celebrini as a player. Now, can that work out horribly? Yes. Yu-Gi-Oh Yes, it can. And what are the odds of. Of. Of him being the next Gretzky or the next. Next McDavid and so on the next Crosby. You guys tell me you would know much better than me. Probably not high. I mean, the. The odds of anybody becoming that are going to be tiny. But. But that's. The appeal, is that, you know, you. You become the. The president of the club of collectors of that person in a certain sense, by possessing a card like that. And I'm not saying that justifies the price, but I am saying it. It explains why somebody would one-of-one that card at all costs and would then, you know, get to enjoy the next decade plus of being the owner of. Of a true trophy of one of the true trophies of a very, very promising, potentially generational player. Yu-Gi-Oh I think you have a great take there, and I know it's a, it's a take that I've heard you, you talk about before when you are spending lots of money on a modern player, what whether it is, is or was Patrick Mahomes, when we saw his shield card sell for 4 million at the 2021 National, I believe it was whether it's big Luca cards, big Wemby cards, big Cooper flag cards, Shohei cards, or now Celebrini, you get to enjoy their career while owning maybe their best card or among their best cards. And there is something kind of cool about that and, and fun about that. But for, for me, and I think many people, it's that versus the risk associated with it. It's risk versus being the having the ultimate follow along. Totally. Jeremy. And what, what I would say is this, I would say if we could ask people who spent strong six figures and low seven figures on the hottest quarterbacks during the last really hot cycle, the, the peak of the last cycle, 2021, 2022, there were several quarterbacks who had card sell for high six and low seven figures. The sort of the expectation that each one of them, you know, there's like maybe five, four or five of them who were sort of like being romanticized as if they're the next Peyton Manning, Tom Brady, even the next Patrick Mahomes. And, and of course none of them have manifested to that so far. And so if you could look back and say, and you could ask that person, you could say, would you rather have spent your seven figures knowing what we know now with the, with the, with the perspective of hindsight, with the, with the knowledge that we have today, you got to own that card for the last five years that this ultra modern quarterback that you spent a ton of money on. But, but would you rather have just purchased a Wagner, a low, low grade, would you rather purchase that five years ago? Because that card has probably doubled since then. Maybe, maybe a little bit less, maybe a little bit more. Whereas this ultra modern QB card, it's still very valuable. It's. But, but it's probably lost 30, 40, 50, maybe even more percentage points of its value. So you got, so now you've had the experience, you've had it for five years, you've got to take this ride. Now if you could go back and do it over again, would you, would you rather have just bought the Hannes? Yu-Gi-Oh What do you, what do you think, Josh? I mean. Well, I know what you. Go ahead, Josh. Let's hear it from you. I think if you got a million dollars to spend on A Macklin Celebrini card. I don't think you really care if you lose that million dollars. They're not buying it because they think the million's gonna appreciate. They're buying it because it's the hot thing of the day. I don't know who the buyer is, so I don't know who he is and I can't, you know, speak for him. But just objectively looking at it, it seems like it's not really because he likes a hockey card. It's because it's the hot hockey card of the time. If it was any other guy with a one of one that was for sale, put out. Has Bedard sold that card? That one of one or no? Oh, I don't know. I'm. Well, let's. Let me check card ladder here. I will just add Bedard to this search that I have going. I mean, it'll go for more, right? There was definitely like a well publicized bounty for the Bedard. Oh, really? Yu-Gi-Oh I'm not sure if it's appeared yet. Might have nothing. No Bedards down. We're. We're into under 200k now and I have yet to see a Bedard show up. So we're down 150. Yu-Gi-Oh The chat saying didn't show up yet. It didn't. Okay. So that will be an interesting one. I don't think if you, you know, I don't think as of right now that it would sell for as much as the seller as the Celebrini. I saw in the chat. Someone said, you know, the Bedard will be worth more in the long run. Very well might be. What team is going to get closer to the Stanley cup sooner? I think that might not be Chicago, Josh, unfortunately. Oh, no, not even close. Right. It's the Sharks. They have a much better team. And the Hawks are in purgatory for a long time. Yu-Gi-Oh And then. And then Turpin Forester says, what if Celebrini becomes one of the greatest? What if he wins a Stanley cup before Columbus? Connor McDavid. What if he wins the Art Ross Trophy as the points leader in the NHL? What if he wins the Maurice Richard Trophy as the goals leader in the NHL? What if he wins? Is it the Lindsay Trophy as the most valuable player is voted on by the players, not the press, which I think is the. The most underrated trophy in hockey. Maybe all sport is that one. The heart trophy being overrated in my opinion. In any event. Yu-Gi-Oh What are the. If Celebrini becomes. If he becomes the next, like Crosby. That's all he has to be is Crosby. He doesn't have to be Gretzky. He just has to be Crosby. And that's a big thing to become. It's huge. It's bigger than Bedard, it's bigger than Ovechkin, it's bigger than McDavid. But that's what he has to become. Maybe he doesn't have to. The hobby is changing, guys. You heard about what's going on with the Card Vault by Tom Brady, right? You heard that, that they have now added a superstar roster of investors to grow from a dozen stores to 100 stores. That is crazy, right? That is going. That looks like that is going to happen. You heard what just happened with Whatnot. Whatnot is really an un. It's not really an on point company to bring up in the hobby space anymore because they are so much more than sports cards. They are not only selling sports cards and tcg, they are selling it. I feel like Whatnot is going to become a company where just like everybody has an ebay account or a PayPal account or whatever. I feel like everyone's going to have a Whatnot. Like young kids today. In. In 10 years, any kid who's 20 years old or younger is going to have a Whatnot account to sell whatever they want to sell on Whatnot. It's absolutely blowing up. They just had a half a billion dollar raise at a $20 billion valuation. That is insane. So, so do players like Wemby and Flag and Caniple and, and, and you know, PCA and all these guy obviously celebrating Bedard. Do they have to be the same as their predecessor biggest like, you know, prospect? Or do they not anymore? Because we have what I think are crypto 100 millionaires coming in and buying cards for way more than any of us who've been in the hobby a long time. Not to say they haven't. They might have come into their money 40 years into being a hobbyist, and now they're just dumping it on the hobby because they want the cards and they will pay whatever they have to pay. You know, do these players have to become. Does Celebrini have to become a crosby or a McDavid? Does. I don't know, does Wemby or Flag. Do they need to become the next LeBron James to maintain these values? I don't know. Maybe not. The hobby might be getting like I've now heard people say. You know, everyone laughed when Fnatic said they were going to 10x the hobby? Well, they've 20x the hobby. I've heard stuff like that out there now. The hobby's in a crazy place. Chris, what do you think when you think about the. When you zoom out of all this and look at the overall hobby right now? Well, I to your point about can the next generation carry the interest in the market for a player, even if that player's accolades or legacy or aura doesn't measure up to players from previous generations? I think about myself, I started collecting basketball cards in the 90s as a young kid and I was all about Chris Weber and I was all about Penny Hardaway and then Shaq and you know, Jordan, obviously, and Hakeem and David Robinson and Kobe and Iverson and Nash. Like I was all about those guys. And I wasn't ever thinking about Kareem Abdul Jabbar, Magic Johnson, Larry Bird, you know, David Thompson, etc. I wasn't thinking about any of those guys. And it actually now only hits me from the vantage point of midlife when I say to myself, you know, man, those guys like, like Kareem with the, the, with the six MVPs, the most NBA history, or you know, all the various things that he's accomplished, you know, six championships, two finals MVPs, just unstoppable hook shot, just all the things that he had going for himself. And then that caused me to actually circle back and finally get a Kareem card, which I did, which I'll reveal one day. But you know, I look at that and I say, well I, when I was a kid, you know, I wasn't thinking like, man, how does Chris Weber, Martin, Chris Weber measure up to Larry Bird? I was just like, oh, this is the guy who's on TV and I'm watching him. And then our generation has carried that forward. And I think you could probably find a lot of pricing discrepancies of a guy like Dr. J against pick not as distinguished player from an era that just had more collectors. So I think, like, it comes back to a point we were kind of talking about last week is like, who is the buyer? Who are the buyers? Who is the demographic? Who are the people buying it? If you have, you know, a million people who want to collect the 90 stars and you have 100,000 people who want to collect the stars of the 60s, 70s and 80s, that's going to matter at the margin. That's going to matter when prices get set. Yu-Gi-Oh all these things matter. We just can't properly fit them into a formula that tells us what the future is. Going to hold. So we are always at the mercy of the unknown. And that's what makes this all so much fun though. We all. It's so crazy like how, you know, and it happens to me all the time when I'm, I discover something or I get tuned into something. It's like, why wasn't I buying this 10 years ago when the prices were 10 of where they are now? And then I think to myself, what can I buy now that I'm gonna like 10 years from now? And I can pay 10 of 10 years from now prices today. And I just can't, can never answer that question until the time happens. It's very, it's, Yu-Gi-Oh it's a lot of fun. Thank you to for that question from Situational Adventures. A couple comments. Moloko said, I think it says more about how few one of one hockey cards are produced for potential greats. I don't know. I don't know. Moloko maybe a little bit card Fuchsia said that Gretzky got injured and bad. Yu-Gi-Oh And Mario Lemieux, who you know is many people say the best of all time. If not he's a top, he's a Mount Rushmore player. I mean he, he, he retired due to cancer and came back after cancer. Talk about, talk about a comeback. That was incredible. Laura says Wagner has the bigger story over Celebrini. Absolutely. Fresh Prince said Celebrini would take the Wagner. I like that one. Stephen Lane says, simply put, some people have FU money and can spend it foolishly without consequence. That's where we're at today, guys. That's what's happening. I believe that we've taught, we've speculated for years now here in this On Sports Cards live and elsewhere on on the on in hobby content about where is this money coming from? Is it institutional money? Is it private equity? Is it money laundering? Is it cartel? I mean there's all sorts of speculation. Is it crypto billionaires? I think it's maybe a bit of all the above. Who knows? Hockey Cardboard asked me would I rather have the celebrity or the Franken Wagner? The Franken Wagner all day long? For me it's just so easy for me to answer that question. But thank you for the question. Hockey Cardboard. Quick attention everybody. Steve Splenda has entered the show. Moloko puts in quotes. Just has to be cross. I know it's ridiculous that I even said that, but that's what. Yu-Gi-Oh The just wasn't, wasn't the just shouldn't have been there. I Agree. Malcolm and sports cards down. What's up? Alex says is. Is Celebrini the NHL equivalent to what Wemby is to the NBA? I kind of think so. I. I think he is. He's got. He is the number one prospect. I don't know if you can even call him a prospect. He's the number one, like under 22 year old player in the NHL. And it's not even really like Bedard is up there too, but after those two guys, I can't think of anyone who's. I can't think of who the third guy would be. It might be one of the. Is it a demidov on Montreal? Josh, who do you want to say? I can tell you're about to. Not Shifely. Not. Not him. The. The defenseman on the Islanders. Oh, Schaefer. Yu-Gi-Oh huge. Schaefer's hue. But he's a defenseman. I think that's gonna hold him back. Yu-Gi-Oh for sure. I don't think it's fair. I think defensemen are great, have an important role on the team, but just like in any sport, offense is really what. What sells the best. So. But I think to answer Alex's question here, I think the answer is yes. You know, obviously the style of Blue Ice different and all that, but Yu-Gi-Oh I think as far as impact on the hobby, impact on his team, impact on the sport where the attention is media and all that, yes, he is the equivalent to Wemby. And then where does Bedard fall? Is he the equivalent to Cooper Flag? Is Cooper Flag. And I asked the question to you guys, to Chris specifically, is Cooper flag A, A1 rung down? Chris on the, on the ladder versus Wemby, is Wemby a bit higher in terms of his, his prospectability? Yes, only because Wemby is so unusual. You know, if you take Wemby out of the equation, Flag is himself a generational prospect. It's just that Wemby is this multi generational prospect. Wenby is a guy who. We've never really seen anything like it before. A guy who's in the NBA finals in his third season, possibly you know, projecting to be the greatest defensive player of all time just because of the sheer unfairness of his reach and his height and his mobility and his size and his athleticism. So, you know, he. Wemby is just freakish. It's. It's not that Flag isn't a top tier prospect. Flag is in the highest percentile. Wemby's just off the charts, you know, which makes me think when you say how, you know, he's the. It's the freakishness. You know, Macklin Celebrini has something going on that no other prospect in hockey does, and that is that he's, like, best friends with Steph Curry and. And. And. And the. And. And the warriors because his father is, like, their trainer. So you go. You watch Celebrini play at in San Jose for the Sharks, and you've got Draymond in the crowd. Steph is there. You know, they're texting. Like he has the. The potential to transcend hockey in a way that Gretzky did. When Gretzky was traded from Edmonton to Los Angeles back in 88 or 89, that was. That put hockey on the map. Celebrini, because of his connections to the warriors and the fact that Steph Curry is, you know, a, you know, a top 10, 15 player of all time, I think that will bring additional attention to Celebrini. And when I say transcend hockey, I think it will bring attention to him, to the basketball community a little bit. People who are following Steph Curry in that. I know it's a bit of a stretch, but I do think there's a degree of. Of impact that that will have. I'm open to being agreed or disagreed with. I'm curious, Josh, what do you think? Is there any. Any validity to that statement that I made? I mean, possibly. I don't. I think hockey's a little different. I don't know. Like, because he's got the same trainer. I don't know if that's gonna really. It's not the same trainer. His father is. Is like the trainer for them. But it's not that. It's that Celebrini grew up going to warriors games. He is tight with those players, and they are at his games to watch him play. And they're on social media talking about Macklin Celebrini. They're on social media at the Sharks games. It's not just having the same trainer. There's more to it than just that. You have to kind of vision, envision the. The. The. The whole context of it all. Social media is very powerful nowadays. You know, like, it really. It really is. And if you're a. If you are a big Steph Curry fan or a Warriors fan, but even better, Steph Curry at this point, and you see him talking about this hockey player and showing his plays and getting excited for a. A great move that celebrity made that finished off with a very impressive goal that's bringing impressions, it's showing. It's also, people want to emulate their. Their heroes. And if Steph Curry is your hero and he's emulating this kid, are you not going to want to maybe look into a little bit? Not everybody. I think some will. So I push back a little bit, Josh, because I think it's more than just having the same trainer. I think it does transcend some things. Yu-Gi-Oh But Chris, what do you think to. To which part Jeremy does again? When you said that. That Wemby is freakish and that he's so unique, it's not because of relationships he has outside of the basketball court or, or in the basketball court. It's because of his physical stature. And then I, when you said that, my brain went to, well, does anything make Celebrini stand out? And no, no, he's. He's actually undersized. He's about the same size as Bedard. You know, Patrick Kane. He's a great player, but. But he's not freakishly good like McDavid is, I don't think. He's not freakishly tall and strong, maybe. I don't know if he's a freakishly fast skater. But what does set him apart from almost every other superstar in the NHL is his relationship with Steph Curry, the. And the Goldin State Warriors. So that's kind of where I'm getting at. I know it's not apples to apples, but I'm. I was looking for something that made him unique compared to his. His contemporaries. Well, we know cultural impact is massive. I think Dennis Rodman is the poster child for that in the basketball card market, where, if you're relevant in a sense, that matters to pop culture and to collectors who care about that, that can overshadow and that can exceed and that can make irrelevant many aspects of your. On the ice, on the field, on the court play. So I think it. It potentially is relevant. But. But I would. I personally wouldn't put it in the same Beckett as what Wemby has going for him, because Wemby's. Wemby as. As this, like, 7 foot 5, very dexterous player is. Is just. It's. It's. It's something that very, very rarely you'll ever see in. In basketball in my lifetime. I've never seen anything like it. Now, that's not me saying I think Wemby's the greatest or he's gonna be the greatest or anything like that. I have seen serious basketball People, People make the point that he has the Potential to be the best defensive player to ever play the game. They're not saying he is yet, but they're saying if he keeps having the defensive impact that he has for his team and relative to league average, that you'll be able to make that case pretty quickly for him. And I think the player. I think the most defensive player of the year awards anybody's ever one-of-one is four. I think Ben Wallace and Rudy Gobert share that distinction, and there's a reasonable chance that he will surpass those four. So don't shoot the messenger. I'm. I'm just. I'm just saying what I've heard people who are more knowledgeable about basketball than me saying. Granted, everybody drinks a bit of the Kool Aid and gets a bit excited, but I just. I just think Wemby is a different type of thing. I think. I think. I think that the spec. Because here's what it is, Jeremy. It's the spectacle. The pop culture is part of this too. Like, if. If Celebrini becomes this, like this, this. This figure that pop culture puts on a pedestal, then that will make. Magnetize people to the TV when he's on, and they'll. They'll get people to go to the. Go to games and watch him play. Wembanyama has that. He is so freakishly tall. He is so freakishly athletic. He is so unlike any other player that's in the NBA or in any professional sport right now. Just from a visual perspective, just to see a guy who's 7 foot 5 run that fast do these feats of athleticism that he can do, to cover that much ground, that much space, that quickly and to. To be that size and to go to the ground as often as he does. And there's always like this sort of like Yu-Gi-Oh of like, oh, is he gonna get hurt? You know, there's just so much that. That makes you want to watch him play, whether it's in person or on the screen. That's. That's the thing, that. That's what takes him to a different level. It's a spectacle. It is a spectacle. It's funny watching him take a free throw. It's like he's looking straight at the rim, you know, like his. When he's taking a shot, his arm on the follow through is higher than the rim. So like, it's like it's a. He's a cheat code for. For a free throw. Like, it's. It's ridiculous. So. And basketball is the one sport where you were more than any Other you get that where you get these total anomalies genetically that because basketball is so much rewards being tall, right? It is. I can't think of a really another sport where your physical stature can be that much of an advantage. I mean, other than maybe wrestling and boxing, like, like, except for the, the, the, the combat sports. But you know, hockey, you can be Zebra fast, but that's because you have strong legs and, and all that. You know, in baseball, I don't know, maybe like Randy Johnson was a great pitcher because he had such a, such good leverage on the ball. You know, like he could pitch like nobody. That slingshot was incredible. So there are a few things like that, but nothing like basketball. Chris. I agree. Nothing quite like basketball. Moloko says that him and Josh have the same trainer. That's good to know. Vintage oddball. Rick said here that Wemby will not stay healthy. Who does stay health? Does anybody stay healthy anymore? Well, but I wonder. I would ask Rick to clarify. Do you mean that he will be out at over extended periods or will his career get cut short, or will he have injuries come and go like most players do? And then Dan here says that Wemby consistently made bad defensive decisions throughout the finals. He was exposed, fair enough, but he's 22 years old. He's only going to learn and make fewer bad defensive decisions. That's where coaching comes into play. That's where experience comes into play. That's where having a commitment to your craft comes into play. So while he may have done that, that might be the best thing that ever happened to him because he was exposed. And he will, like, I, I don't know what he will or will not do, but I would like to think that he will likely learn from that and correct it over time and get a lot better so that I don't hold that against him at all. I think short term, the hobby holds it against him. Maybe a bit little, a little bit long term. I don't see that being a problem. Chris. It is. It is true though, that Wemby did not have a good finals, that he did struggle defensively in that series and offensively too, and that, you know, he became a villain over the course of the playoffs as well. He was elbowing people in the head. And then when you go up against the Knicks and you're sort of the last obstacle, that's in between the Knicks and, and you know, basketball immortality, especially a franchise that's been deprived of that over the last however many decades and has come very close and had those great 90s teams, but never quite got there. That, you know, he's. He's become a villain. And he doesn't. He. He hasn't tried to brush that aside either. He's. He. I'm not saying he's fine with it, but, you know, we were at Fanatics Fest and he was walking around and Fanatics Fest obviously takes place in New York City and he was just getting booed everywhere he went, you know. And so does that upset a person and make them want to sort of go back to being the nice guy? I don't know. I'm not sure how that affects him. But these, These are the cultural ramifications as well that are impacting Wemby. The. The To. To your celebrity point. Absolutely. All right. We're gonna bring Joe back on. Joe, you good? Didn't know if Joe was going to come back, but he's back. Welcome back. Say hello, everybody to Joe Perot, back for round two. Hey, fellas. Hello, Joe. Nice shirt, Joe. I. I love it. I love this shirt. This is the sleeper of all the swag at the whole national is my introvert. Thanks to card ladder. I didn't get that shirt. I didn't even see that shirt till now. I'm jealous. I want one of those badly. That's a great looking shirt, but introvert but willing to discuss cards. I got yu-gi-oh. That's awesome. What a great shirt. Okay. For Sammy Hill. I did. It's funny. Sammy Hill said Randy Johnson begs to differ. Jeremy read my mind. I didn't see that till after that. I did read your mind there, Sammy Hill. Absolutely. Dan says, will Wemby learn enough before his body breaks down? I. I mean, I gotta think he will. He's only 22 years old. He's got several years left beyond. You know, outside of some catastrophic injury or an unfortunate injury. I think it's not going to take him long. I mean, everyone's calling him out for his defensive struggle in the finals. I think he will learn it, but I don't. How do I know for sure? I don't. I'm just. That's just my. My theory. And Fresh Prince says losing in the finals was the best thing that happened to him. 22 years old and ready for redemption. Yu-Gi-Oh I mean, he's a. He's a good player. Like Chris said, he's got special qualities that make him a good player. And in addition, like, he's actually coordinated. He can dribble, he can shoot. He's not just tall. I am just tall. I can't really dribble. I can shoot, but that's about it. That's about it for me. Thanks for tuning in and being a part of the Sports Cards Live community. Don't forget to, like, subscribe and most of all, keep collecting more great content to come. Sports Cars is a lifestyle. Are you looking for a new favorite podcast? Are you looking for a podcast about movies? Are you looking for a podcast that strictly covers 80s, 90s, 2000s movies? 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