When Should You Pivot In The Hobby? Surface Issues Episode 38

In our massive country, there are card collectors throughout the land participating in the hobby. There's Mike of Junk Wax Hero and Greg of midlife Cards. And while distance may separate them, here is where they come together to talk cards. Hey, buddy. How are you on this summer vacation day? It is spring, first of all, and I just got done grilling pork chops and zucchini, and it was delicious, so I'm good. Okay, couple questions right off the bat. Zucchini, do you season it? And if so, how. Yeah, my wife does, and I don't know how she does the prep. So I. I know she puts it in oil and then some. Something that she put some sort of seasoning she puts on, but I'm not sure what. We. We usually do a garden at the Miller house, and we always have squash and always have zucchini and always have, like, cherry tomatoes. And the zucchini and squash are a hit. And I grill them as well. And so what I do is I slice them. Oh, maybe about, I don't know, what is it, a half, a third of an inch width. And then I put that. Put some olive oil, salt and pepper. And then I grill them on both sides until they're soft. Soft enough to just use a fork. And then when I bring them off, I put a little dab of butter on each one, and then it just kind of soaks in there. And so by the time you eat it, it's just bang. Okay. Interesting. Yeah. Well, there's a lot going on in the sports card hobby and our weekly conversation, which is now moved back to Tuesdays. We had a 1:1 episode back to Saturday after we went to Tuesday. But Tuesday is our normal home here on the sports Card Clubhouse. And remember, if you're listening at home, we have lots of different shows. Tuesday you have us. Wednesday, you have the Hangover. Thursdays, we have extra innings episodes. And then on Saturdays, we have either this week in sports cards or the midlife card chase. And let's just start right there. Saturday. This past Saturday, David, Jace and I had a really interesting, I thought, interesting discussion about a 59, tops, Mickey Mantle that appears to have been gotten soaked and scrubbed and then resubmitted and regraded. Can I just tell the story of me watching this? Yeah, because I was. I sat down. What day did you post that? I posted that episode on Saturday. That's right, Saturday. And so at some point on Saturday evening, I think I sat down and I was like, well, I'll just listen to this while I get a bunch of Stuff done. But very quickly, you started sharing your screen. And I was like, okay, this is going to be good. So I sat down and I started watching. And, you know, you show and what Greg has on the screen here, if you're listening to this as a podcast, is two Mickey Mantle PSA four 1959 tops cards. And. And you know, you're talking about them. And I said, well, there's not much difference between these two cards. So I was wondering where you were going to go with this. And I did not see the title of the episode. I was just like, click, play, because I know I wanted to watch it or listen to it. And then it was like a mic drop moment when you said, I think these are the same cards. And it. It blew my mind. And I don't know why. Like, I should have seen it coming. I guess I should have read the title. But that was when you had me for the rest of the episode. I was in sold. And it's. There's no doubt whatsoever that these are the same exact card. And you. You sold it. If anybody hasn't watched that episode yet, you should now. I appreciate that very much. I do want to point something out, because I had two people tell me they very quickly knew it was going to be the same card. One was my dad, one was Mookie Chilson. And Mookie, the ever observant person, if you look at the screen right now, and I didn't notice this, I didn't even think. Think about this, but this is why Mookie's brain is firing at a much different level than mine. He did say, yes, the color on the one on the right is much richer. We can agree with that. The one on the left looks washed out, but if you look at the red on the flip, it is a little deeper red than the one on the left. So some of the washing out might be the scan itself, some of it. That said, it is still clearly the same card, but I don't know if the soaking dulled it as much as this image looks. I did. I did want to share that because I thought that was a good point, but we're still convinced it's the same card. 100 still the same card. Okay. Yeah. The. The point I'm Mookie was making and I think is worth noting, is that the card on. On the right, which looks significantly deeper red. Yeah, I think it's probably just moderately deeper red based on using the red in the flip as an indicator of the scan itself. Sure. Okay, so that said, keep Going. Keep. Keep talking about my. And no, it was just wildly interesting. Then you showed you had photos of the card, both cards, I guess, even though it's only one card. And where. Yeah, so this, this was really compelling. Where you're showing the little dots, the print dots on them, comparing them on the front, and clearly they're the same print dots. But then the stains on the back where they are perfectly matched up between the two of them. Yeah. So if you're, if you're listening, Greg is showing on the top where a stain. You can still see the remnants of a stain. And almost like. It's almost like paper loss. You. You and David Chase were talking about this in the same way. It's unclear if that's paper loss or it's just like scratching, but clearly the stain on the bottom portion of this shows the stain from the old one that has been removed. And if I remember correctly, you said that the top one where the stain had been removed and the card looks better, had sold for twice what they had paid for. Is that right? Yeah. So the card on the top went sold. It went sold since the episode aired. So I do feel the need to provide an update on. On what happened after the episode. So at the time, the cleaned card was for sale on ebay and had not sold yet. Since then, it has now, it is now no longer available. And in some of the ways that you look at it, it says, it has a little mark that says sold. Now, I don't think that the price has posted to any of the app sites yet. So what it sold for? Don't know. But they were asking. I believe it was. Well, I have it on here. If they're asking about $1500. 1599. 99 is what they were asking. I'm assuming they got something close to that. And originally the card had sold for $960. So with the quick turnaround time, the shipping, all of that, the ebay fees, they probably didn't really come away winning a ton, but they, they probably were expecting the card to go up from a four after they cleaned it. Now. Okay, now there's another thing I have to. I feel the need to share. Yeah. And I just checked card ladder use code SCC for a free month that it is not showing up there either. What, what I was told is that if you. I don't even. I think it was. David Chase told me this. If a card is listed as buy it now and there's a best offer accepted, the, the amount that it's sold for doesn't post through their systems for some reason to any app, any card app, site until the, the, the sale expires. So if it was like a 30 day sale best offer and they accepted a best offer, then until those 30 days expire, that is when the amount it's sold for actually posted. If you remember historically, ebay will say that it sold and have the line through it or whatever. The actual amount shows up after the auction expires. That's what I was told. I. This is semantics. This is not all that interesting to the conversation, I don't think. But a couple of things did happen since that video posted as well, besides it selling. The. The next thing that I think is interesting is Jeremy Lee. He went into the original sale, which was purchased on ebay through a Probestein listing, and he looked at who bought it. Because you can look at the bids and you can see the bid history. And at the top, the winner had, you know, they encrypt who the buyer is. But what's not encrypted is the feedback. Right. And the number of feedback was the exact amount of feedback that the new seller had. Meaning the person who bought the card is overwhelmingly likely to be the person who had it listed for sale and who now in a different slab. And, and yeah, so you can do some math there. So that was a really interesting thing that Jeremy looked up and he showed that on Sports Cards Live on Saturday night. So that happened. The other thing that happened, and I want to pick your brain on this. You know, David at Chase and I were talking about where, what obligation having been. And, and let me again just say this up front. I'm not the one that found this, okay? I am not the, the Scooby Doo troop that was able to discover what was some crime that had happened. This was sent to me and I then brought it forward to share it with everybody because I think it's, it's interesting, but I think it's just more of like a buyer beware. These sorts of things are happening. What does this mean about grading? If things, if cards are being, you know, altered or soaked or something and they're still making it through the current grading standards that they have in place. I thought that was interesting. So the, the question I had for David and I was kind of deliberating on during the episode was what do I do? What is my obligation as a member of this hobby community who is now aware of some sort of shenanigans. It appears to be shenanigans happening. Do I report it? Who do I report it to? What do I do about it? And, and I kind of on the episode said I, I need to reach out to PSA and let them know because I need to at least try to protect a potential buyer, which again, since then the card is sold. So someone now has bought this card. I reached out to Ryan Hogue, who is the head of grading for all of the collectors labels. Yeah. And I said this, I have a channel. I'm just telling you this because we're going to be talking about it. This is what appears to have happened before and after photos make it pretty clear. He immediately responded to me within. I, I didn't send it to Nat, I only sent it to ryan Hoge. Within 30 seconds he responded to me and said, can you send me the pictures? And I said sure. So I sent him the pictures and he immediately responded to that and said, thank you, I am forwarding this to my PSA or to my grading department to have them investigate. Thank you. And then I responded and I said, I want to let you know I'm not, I'm not sending this to you as like a I got you psa. I'm sending this to you as a. I feel like this is what we should be doing. And in fact over the weekend Nat made a post on Twitter or something saying if you know of fraudulent cards that are in holders, please let us know. Now that's not in reference to this, but he, they do want us to do that. So I was doing my what I think they want us to do and I was doing what I thought was the right thing to do. So my question to you is, did I do the right thing? Is that what we should do? Or should we just say, oh man, are there, is there something else I should do besides what has been done? And I've had a couple of people reach out to me and tell me that there are some databases that have been created. You probably are aware of this. I wasn't, but it seems like something you would know that there are databases that are out there of cards that are known to have been altered and you can look up PSA serial numbers to see, you know, if, if that's a known altered card. Last thing I'll say before I turn it back to you. I know I'm going long winded. I'm sorry, I looked up right before we recorded to see is this card still an active cert? And I still have it up. It is still an active cert. And I reported this Wednesday afternoon, Wednesday, May 27th. And we are recording this the afternoon, evening of June 1st. So at this point, the card is still an active cert. Yeah. So the altered card database is one where they enter these in. I don't, I've never heard of anybody using it. I've never heard of anybody searching this database. That doesn't mean they don't. I just, I've been aware of this altercard database for years and I know that the owner keeps it updated very, very religiously. But I've never had somebody say, oh, you've got to search the altered card database. And so I don't, I don't know how influential it is if it's supposed to be. I don't know. But you asked if I think you did the right thing. I think you did. I don't think there's a right or wrong answer here. I think if somebody were to say, ah, there's already millions of. Probably not millions, maybe, maybe millions of altered cards in PSA holders, what's one gonna do? I get that too. I would have done the same thing as you. I pulled up the website as you were talking there. It's tiffanycards.com altered card database. I just googled altered card database. I was unaware of this. Our buddy Josh at rated rookie, sent this to me, says I can add or remove a card to the database. Let's put in the cert, which I just copied and I just now pasted. It does not is not in this database at this point. Adding it, I don't, I don't know if that's something I should consider doing. I mean, this stuff, this is the part of the hobby where a couple of people get burned and then they just go, you know, this is what turns people off. You know, I don't, I don't really know. I think the whole thing discourages me. And, you know, I even have a question that's going to come out on my Wednesday Q A episode about somebody's asking about, you know, being discouraged with some of the things happening with the hobby right now, you know, and, and it is, it's like, it, it's like, how many times can you have these things happen and then just not just go, you know, it says it's not worth it, you know, that that's the, this is the problem. And I don't know. There's not an answer. I think it's one of these things that has to be grassroots where we all try to just look out for each other. Like if you're at a card show and you see somebody steal something from a dealer's table, like you have to speak up, like you have to do things like that. If there's a person who you know is trimming cards, like, you have to speak up and we have to police ourselves because there's not some governing body that over overlooks all this stuff and, or oversees all this stuff. I mean, there was a video about some guy who had a bad history who was set up as a car dealer and is on lists and things and shouldn't be around kids. And it's like those, I, I don't know, like it, the, the whole thing is discouraging to me. Well, you mentioned people who are discouraged by things that are happening in the hobby. I think those people are discouraged by things that are happening in the industry. And those things, as I say on my video every Sunday morning, don't let the industry bother your hobby. Don't be discouraged by the industry. You can collect, you can hobby any way you want. It's difficult, there's no doubt, but you can buy raw cards from small sellers anywhere and not really be affected by the industry. Now prices are going up because of the industry, etc. Etc. But those are indirect impacts. And it, for me, I, I don't ignore them, obviously, because I'm very aware of them, I research them, I talk about them, but they have little effect on how I hobby. I think that well said. I mean really, really well said. And you're right, you do talk about this a lot. And that's one of the things when I think of you and your channel, you drawing the line between industry and hobby. And, and it's a good reminder every time. And it's a good reminder just now. And I think it also is a reminder to all of us that, I mean, that particular seller on ebay, again, I don't know what happened. I don't know what happened. So it's easy to start to draw conclusions from, you know, circumstances and things. I don't know what happened, I don't know who did what. But this is a seller with perfect feedback, 100% feedback, and has over 6,000 transactions. So you go, well, but I don't know anybody who knows this person, you know, and, and when you're doing business, I would say it's always a good idea to do business with people that you trust. And if you are buying cards, if you are selling a collection, working with a trustworthy person I think is a good move. And you know, I've caught and, and I want to talk about this in a second, too. We, you and I have been very, very specific about who we partner ourselves with. And we only want to partner ourselves with the most ethical people, the best people and products and services that we agree with. And that's why I, I genuinely feel honored that Chris Sewell sponsors our Surface issue episodes. I trust Chris. Chris is a really, really good guy. And when you're doing business with big deals, whether it be buying, whether it be selling, whether it be transacting, whatever it is, you know, I highly recommend Chris and he is going to be an honest guy. And that when I hear about stories like this, I, I am reminded of that, you know, and so again, as always, if you want to sell your collection, reach out to Chris Sewell. Sewellsportscards gmail.com he has recently taken a lot of steps to expand his business. He is growing rapidly, and I believe a big part of that is because he does things on the up and up. He's a good guy. He's a trustworthy guy. He's has an impeccable image in, in the hobby for a reason. He's been around for a very long time. There he is right there. What is he, about 16? Right there in that picture that I'm showing on the screen. And yeah, so again, I, I mean, I don't know if you want to add on and pile onto that, but, but it is a reminder to me of know who you're doing business with. And, and the people that we partner with, like Chris se are people that genuinely, I trust. Like, if my dad was going to sell his collection and he would say, who are you going to go to? Like on the shortest of short lists, I would, I would direct him toward Chris. Yeah. And I talk to Chris frequently. We text, we speak on the phone. And he is exactly what you think he is on his channel. He's genuine, he's real, he's fair. He, he's just a great guy all around. And so, yeah, we've always been happy to have him as our first sponsor for this channel and the title sponsor for Surface issues. Yeah. I mean, and, and I want to talk a little bit about that because, you know, there are channels that are out there that, that change over time. They evolve over time. They rebrand themselves over time. They sometimes even change what they're all about over time. And I had somebody reach out to me in my comments. They didn't reach out. They just left a comment about how I have a bunch of ads now and what the heck, Greg, you said you weren't going to be a person that had ads on your channel. And what happened, why you said that for years that you weren't going to have sponsors and partners and, and what's, what's up with that? And I know this is a topic that we kind of wanted to talk about, not just with, you know, you know, pointing the camera at me with that question, but just in general, what are our thoughts about, you know, changes to channels and changes to people and changes to images. Did you want to touch on anything before? I kind of share my thoughts on how I responded to that. Yeah, I think that we all change. We all evolve. I mean, Dylan used to like centering and now he hates it, so. Just kidding, Dylan. So I, I was following an Instagram account that went viral. It went massive. I think they were interviewed by PSA or Tops recently. I'm just gonna say, because I, I still like the channel. It's a, it's an Instagram account. I'm not being critical of it. It's more of a me thing than a them thing. And it was, it was called PSA1 only. And their whole thing was that they only had PSA1 cards in their collection. They wanted the best PSA1 card possible. And it was all iconic cards. It was an awesome, awesome. And I just noticed recently that they have rebranded to PSA1.ish. And now the, the bio says mid grade PSA iconic cards or something like that. And I was like, hang on a second. This is not who I follow. Is this the same account? And I went and I looked and sure enough, it's. I'm pretty sure it's the same account. And so I felt like, wow, I should I continue following this account? I have. I still like it, but I felt almost betrayed, which is silly. It's so silly of me. It's not his fault. He changed the way he collected. So we all go through this. I've had people who followed me for a couple of years and then they didn't like or they didn't relate to or didn't. What I was doing didn't resonate with them anymore. And so they stopped following me. And that's okay. We all change. Maybe I changed, maybe they changed. I don't know. It doesn't matter to me. Yeah, I mean, you know, there are channels that I used to watch a lot because what they were doing at that time was very much what I liked watching. And then they kind of pivoted in a different direction because that's what their interests Were. And I was like, well, I'm not as interested in, in the, this show, this, this channel anymore. Does that mean that that person betrayed me or does that mean actually maybe that person's just being true to themselves, like they've changed their opinion? I mean if you look, and that's the beauty of, of us. I mean, basically what we're doing here is we're documenting our hobby experience and our hobby opinions. And those opinions at times will change. And if your opinion never changes on anything, are you, are you true to your opinions or are you just hard headed because are you learning? Are you learning? Yeah. I mean I've been exposed through this hobby, through comments that I've had, through guests I've had on, through conversations like this. I've been exposed to so many different points of view that the way I am collecting right now is so different than the way that I was collecting when my channel launched three and a half years ago. And, and that to me is part of the fun that you see me live sharing that. And it's like I look through my case of cards and I'm going, I can't get rid of that card. That card right there was like a major get for me. Like I was so excited for that card. But then if that card doesn't fit with what I'm doing now, am I betraying my acquisition? Am I betraying my excitement that I had with that particular card three years ago? Or did that serve its purpose at that time? And it was great at that time. It's like friends, like some friends. My, my best friend in the world has been my best friend in the world since I was five is we've been friends for 40 years. I love him. He was one of the groomsmen in my wedding. We went to breakfast a week and a half ago. I love the guy. His kids are like my kids. My kids are like his kids. He is a fantastic guy. And, and then there are other friends that between those times came into my life and we had great memories and now we just don't talk as much. It doesn't mean I don't like that person, doesn't mean I don't care about them. It just means things, you know, just things changed. And you know, for me, what I responded because the person was sort of like, you know, you, you've got all these ads. Oh, here we go, another ad. And I'm like, yeah, you know, and, and I, I kind of set some markers for myself. When I started my channel. I said for the first Two years. No matter how many comments I get, no matter how many videos I put out, I am going to respond with a written response to every single comment for two years. And I did it for every single comment that didn't get caught in the filters. I've never deleted comments. I don't do that. I just, you know, if you, if you want to hate on me, hate on me and it'll stay up there. I have, I respond to every single comment for two years. And then I was like, I'm spending so much time now on responding to comments that I'm not able to make videos. And I think what people would rather I do instead of sit there and give you a, a three sentence response is you'd rather me make another episode. I think so. After two years. I do it to a lot now, but I don't do it to everyone. And for three years I didn't have a single sponsor. I, I literally had people come to me and say, I want to sponsor your channel, I want to partner with you. And I said no. And they're like, I want to give you money if you talk about my channel. I said no for three years to the point where there are a couple of those companies were not thrilled with me. They took it personally. I'm like, it's not about you. This is about me. I felt like I needed to develop a level of trust with my audience. And so for three years I literally turned money away. And then after three years I said, okay, if you don't trust me at this point, if you don't think I'm authentic at this point, with the amount of time and energy I put into the channel and money that I spend going to these shows and documenting these trips, I, I, I'm having a hard time justifying the, the level of time commitment and then be turning away people who want to sponsor me and partner with me. So I said, okay, after three years, I, this is just me. What I decided. I will now accept a sponsor deal. I will accept up to three sponsors at a time. Right now I have three on my, my home channel midlife cards. And, and then that, that's where I'm at. And it's, and, and I, it's, it's only been nine months since I had my first partnership. Nine months. And, and I've gotten a little bit of blowback about it. And I get it, I get it. People like, oh, now you're just going to say what your sponsors want you to say. I hope that you know that that's not how I am. I have absolutely said negative things about companies that I am affiliated with. I've said positive things mostly, though, because I believe in those products and services, and I wouldn't be partnered with them if I didn't believe in those partners or services, those, those products and services and those people. But Auction Wire, they're really good guys, and it's a great product. You know, card ladder, really good people, really good product. Chris Sewell, really good guy. I really believe in him. You know, CIA, I really like that auction house. I really like the way they do things. I really like the leadership, the employees, the ownership. They're all great guys. That's why I'm affiliated with them. Do you. Let me pivot this back to you. Do you ever feel like you've turned your back on parts of your collection when you move in a different direction? Do you feel like, you know, the kid in Toy Story who has his car, his toys just collecting dust and they're sad about it because you're. He's not interested in playing with them anymore? Like, do you ever feel badly about cards that you've sent to greener pastures? Let me, let me come back to your question, but I want to address what you were talking about with sponsorships. And you and I are in many ways very, very similar. Although you're like, you're at a higher level when you take things to a higher level than I do. But I fairly quickly, when I discovered that there were channels that had sponsorship, small channels that had said. And I, you know, I consider, I don't know at the time, 10,000 sponsors. 10,000. That's a lot of sponsors. 10,000 subscribers. To be small. This was four years ago or so. They, they had sponsors. And I thought, wow, I could have sponsors and I would do it differently than they do, but I could do it, and I think I could do it in a way that is professional and acceptable. And I feel like I've done that. I've never, I've never taken on a sponsor that I didn't like or respect or use myself. And that's always been very important to me and similar to you, I have three. Three sponsors. And I never do multiple sponsors in the same video. I've had the same sponsor, the Penny Sleever, for well over two years. Ever since he, before he even opened his doors, he was sponsoring me. And, you know, I, I charge so little to these sponsors because I want. I want to have a relationship that is mutually beneficial and that they don't have any say. Over what I say. They don't ever come to me and say, I want to edit, I want to view the video before you post it. That's a non starter for me. I don't have time for that. I'm not going to do that. And so I don't sacrifice my ethics, my morals for a sponsor. And I've had a sponsor before that I just didn't like. After we had become partners, I liked the product. After we had become partners, I was like, I'm annoyed by this person. And I'm no longer doing. This is not somebody that anybody in the hobby has probably ever heard of or used. So if somebody out there is like, wait a second, I sponsored Mike. This is a company that's much more into Pokemon supplies for Pokemon stuff anyway. And so I just dropped them because I was annoyed by them. There was no controversy. There's nothing. I was just like, all right, I can't take this person back to your question, though. The one thing that I often think about, that I feel I've betrayed is the Perez Steel hall of Fame autographs, which I'm still passionate about and still occasionally look for. But I've gotten the ones that are within, you know, that you can get inexpensively and that are easy to find and, and the other ones are tough. And I just, I don't spend a lot of time focused on them. I seem to have betrayed them for Pedro Martinez and Nomar Garcia para refractors, which is my current passion. But I will, there's no doubt I will get back to Perez Steel hall of Fame autographs because I love them and I have a binder and I would love to finish that binder. Yeah, it. It's so interesting how there are. There are certain things that you haven't abandoned them. They're just kind of on hold. It's. It's like you got the, the pot on the stove, you just turn it down to warm. You put over in the corner as you're, as you're doing the rest of the stuff, it's not off. But you've moved in, you folk, you're now focusing on something different at the moment, but the other thing is still something that you like. I'm constantly analyzing my collection now, and part of it is because I know this will sound like an ad, but again, it's because I believe in the product is card Ladder. And it's so easy to upload my cards into my card Ladder collection. I look at my cards two, three, four times a day now digitally, whereas before they would be in a case, and they'd be, you know, tucked away or in a safe or whatever. And it's a pain to get them out and look at them. But now I look at them every single day. All of them. I look at them every single day. It's so much easier. And I'm going, do I love that one? Yes. Next card. Do I love that one? Yes. Next card. And it's. I'm constantly going. Because there are so many things. I have a very limited budget. You know, our budgets are very similar. We have very similar situations in a lot of ways, except your channel is twice as big as mine, and. But I got to show this card. I haven't shown this yet. I'm not. I'm really bad at doing pickup videos because I get. I get excited to do whatever I'm going to do my video on. Like, I forgot. God, again. To show what I bought recently, I bought a card. Haven't shown this yet. This just came in the mail today. This is my fourth. My fourth Optimus Prime Transformers number one rookie card from the 1985 Hasbro set. I have four of these now sitting here, the colors. It's a beautiful card. Yeah. And. And I'm sitting there going, like, there are so many things I don't have that I want. But now I have four of these. Oh, it's upside down. I have four of these. Like, do you have duplicates of much stuff? Or when you get a upgraded version or the forever version, do you immediately put the other one up for sale? Either up for sale or give it away? Yeah. So I. If I haveless. I'm just looking at my wall here. The Mark McGuire 85 tops, for instance. Well, let's see. A better example is probably the Tony Gwynn 83 tops. When I get that one in an autograph, I have to make a decision. Do I sell it? Probably not, because it's not enough for me to sell. I would much rather give it away to a channel viewer because that provides me with a benefit of having a. A viewer receive a card that they want. I enjoy giving cards away. It's. You know, it's. It's just one of those things that if it were a $200 card, I'm going to sell it. But if it's a 50 or $75 card, it's probably not worth my energy. That sounds terrible. Like, I'm far from rich. I just don't have the time. And I get more value from giving it. More value from just giving it away to somebody, somebody who gives away a lot of cards and never talks about it is John Mangini. John Mangini gives really good cards to people instead of selling them. So when he says, like, I haven't sold a card in years, like he has it, he gives them away. He. He has given me a really nice Walter Hagen card that I love. I mean, he's a very generous guy with cards. And, and yeah, there is a threshold where you go, well, what do I do? And I've got these four of this card now. And I'm like, I don't, I like them. I don't want to get rid of them. But then there is also that whole thing of, well, I should turn this equity into another card that I want, because there's a lot of stuff that I want that I don't have. Well, I mean, this has been an interesting conversation. We've been kind of all over the place. Somehow it is all weaved together, at least I think somewhat logically. We didn't even talk about what was going to be one of our main topics, which is PSA shutting down the value intake. That was. But. But somehow we are still are where we are. I don't even want to try to throw, Throw three minutes at that and not do it justice because my thoughts are deeper than that. And I know it's been, I know it's been beaten to death, but it's also interesting because, like, I got in the car with my dad. My dad and I went to a card show on Saturday and I, I haven't, I haven't shown the. I, I picked up a card there. I haven't shown either. I have to start showing more stuff. And he gets in the car and the first thing he says is, so what do you think about the PSA situation? And I'm like, I don't know. Everybody's talked about it. He goes, I know, I know everybody's talked about, but what do you think? And I'm like, okay. Like, I probably should address it because I share my opinions about a lot of things. So to not share my at least thoughts about something, that is kind of a big deal. I think I probably should, so I probably will. And I was going to today, but I'll do it another day instead. Sounds good. Hey, real quick, before we wrap up, I have a friend who is a marketing expert and she is a big advocate for just telling people what you're the best at. She's like, you have to tell people you are the best at what my Daily job is you have to. Because once you start telling people that, sure, you sound cocky, but people start believing it. They hear it and they believe it. They hear it and they believe it. So I'm just going to start saying, we are the best podcast in sports cards. I mean, clearly, clearly we are the best podcast in sports cards. I mean, should we put that on the website? Oh, yeah. Just, we are the best podcasts in sports cards. I mean, I know a guy who calls himself the best dealer in New England, so he's probably been consulted by the same marketing expert as your friend. So is this what they call believing it into an existence or is this. It's not necessarily believing it into existence, it's just saying it into existence. I did. On a similar note, I did want to mention that I. And the most handsome man in Sacramento. I believe it. I've never seen another Sacramento man. So it's you and Vlade Divots. So it's definitely you. I might actually be ahead of Vlade. That's probably debatable, but I might. Him and Paja. Yeah, sorry. He's got your beat. All right, well, this was fun. It's always great. Again, if you are listening to this on Tuesday, I hope that you are. Remember, we have the Hangover posts on Wednesdays and then every Saturday you have another episode. This Saturday will be a this Week in Sports Cards. Anything in particular that you want to talk about? I don't know if you've, you know, as we're recording, this news just broke this morning, which I hope we've already agreed we're going to talk about it. Oh, I love it. So at least tease that out. Who is your guest and what is the topic that you're at least going to touch on? Co host is Teapot this week and of course they just announced today being Monday that they are expanding not only Cards HQ but Market Movers content and the brand and things like that. So yeah, we're going to talk about that because Teapot, of course is. He's the. I'm going to probably get his title wrong, but he's like the director of Product at Market Movers or we'll get it right on the episode. I'll ask him. Yeah, he's. He's obviously a important and high ranking people over at Sports Card investor and Market Movers and he's a good guy and he's a very smart guy and also he is a member of Spitball and Cards, which is one of my favorite podcasts. I love those guys. And I do, I do. I should. We should publicly thank Teapot. He did publicly mention our discussion in a recent episode on Sports Card Investor where he hosted a panel. He mentioned our SGC turnaround time sort of news. He. He shared that on. On Sports Card Investor. He was hosting it. That posted another week. Yeah, it was really cool. I'm sorry. He. He. He shouted it out that we, me and you over on the Sports Card Clubhouse. I don't think he called it surface issues, but he mentioned on the Sports Car Clubhouse, shared the recent development about SGC's turnaround time being about to be announced that it is getting longer and then Neo actually did as well. Neo mentioned us by name. He said Greg and Mike talking at SportsCard clubhouse about the SGC turnaround times imminently going to be announced that it's coming out. So appreciate those guys shouting us out. And again, the community, you know, whether you like person A, B, C, D or E, I have a lot of respect for a lot of people in the community and I'm happy, happy to give credit where credit is due when people break news. And Neo, obviously being a person who breaks a lot of news. And so to Teapot and Neo, I appreciate the. The shout outs. Yeah, very cool. All right, do you want to sing us out? Oh, wait, that's David Chase. Okay, well then we will see you next week. All right, see y' all later.