Why Are Card Collectors Suddenly Buying Tickets? + The Gretzky 1/1 + The Scarcity Argument

Michael Jordan. Sports cards is a lifestyle Sports cards and we live now Jeremy Lee in the building and every guest that you ever needed. Sports cards after hours Keep the hobby heated Updates, homie Talk like you never seen it Sports cards live Ain't none could ever beat it Sports cards is a lifestyle Sports cards and we live now. Welcome to another episode of Sports Cards Live with your host, Jeremy Lee. Now, I want to talk about grading. Grading is huge in sports cards, obviously. How important is it to, number one, get a ticket slabbed by, say, psa, and then number two, how important is the grade itself that is assigned by psa? Well, I'm going to say some really nice things about PSA tonight. They actually have opened an office in Plano, Texas, which is completely dedicated to tickets. So they're not shutting down or holding back submissions. And they've actually, since they've opened that office in Texas, the turnaround on tickets has been terrific. I am. I love. Yeah, I know. Crazy David. I know. They've actually done a really, really nice job turning tickets around to all the collectors. I'll say this, I think getting tickets graded by psa, it's a terrific move. The flips help to tell the story. So the top ticket will have, you know, Miracle on Ice or Babe roots called Shot. So it really helps to tell the story. They do a really, really nice job. Yes. What Tom says the PSA slab helps link the story to the ticket and the ticket to the story, for sure. You know, I'm not really big into the grade of a ticket. You know, I don't really care. But here we go. We're seeing a lot of card collectors come into the space. And, you know, in cards, a lot is about made about the grade. So grading of tickets and the ticket grades, it's becoming much more important in our world of tickets. So before, when I didn't really care too much about a grade. Now people are caring a lot more, especially because of the infiltration of card collectors into. Into our world. I can see that that infiltration being a big part of why the grading has become more important. I know for me, I would like my tickets to be slabbed because of that story, because of the holder. I also would not care at all about the grade on. On a ticket that I was at at an event that I was. If it was my personal ticket and purchasing it, I think I'd take the same approach that I take to cards. The lower the grade, the cheaper it'll be. As long as the eye appeals there, there's nothing There that I don't want to look at, but would be great. I also am curious, you know. Well, for. For me, like, I don't want to. I kind of want a ticket that was. I almost feel like the more damage there is on a ticket, the more the ticket holder enjoyed the event. You know, they were moving around more. If it was a concert, they were. That card was rubbing against the inside of their pockets, against their wallet, their keys. Yeah. Maybe they spilled some beer on it. You know, maybe there's smoke stain from certain concerts. You know, I feel like the more damage, the more interesting it would be. What about you, David Chase? What do you think? Like, if you were to buy tickets, do you care about the grade? I would not care about the grade in any way. I just want to have the event, you know, the event in there. And I also have always seen these, like the ticket versus the stub, which is another. Another aspect of that, which is an unused ticket, which I really have. I don't desire something like that. I like something that was at the show. Let's get how. I agree, David. And that's the next. I want to go there with. With. With Howard is how do you guys in the ticket collecting community, how do you look at the difference between a ticket that is unused and a ticket that is used or torn off or, you know, the stub is missing. How does that work for. In the ticket world? So our. Our nomenclature is full ticket versus stub. And I'm with you, David. I'm a stub guy. I like the stubs. I like the fact that it was there. It was in the event. You know, I balled it up into my pocket and, you know, I remembered it two or three days later because I was hungover and I didn't remember that I had. I want that aspect of the ticket. I love that. And it brings you closer to the game or closer to the concert or closer to the event. So I'm a big collector of stubs. I will say this, though. There are a lot of collectors that will pay a very significant premium for a full ticket. And full tickets are incredibly, incredibly collectible and very desirable by a lot of people. So if a stub is rare, rarer than a card, a full ticket, you may not have any, or there may only be one ever found that's a full ticket to a major event. So as much as I love stubs and I think they're great, and they bring you closer to the event and they help tell that story. You know, the. The fulls have become incredibly collectible and incredibly popular and way more money. I think in our world, we say a full is probably valued at about four to five times that of a stub. Does it matter, like, how old the ticket is, or is that just consistent across the board? Yes, of course. I would say, you know, if something is older or it's, you know, rarer or it's a more unique event. Absolutely. I think you can kind of look at the. The sales that we've seen of Michael Jordan debut tickets. The. The stubs are going, you know, in the neighborhood of, you know, 80,000, $90,000. They're. They're, I think, about 60 stubs. And the full tickets, I think there's only been one full ticket that's been found, and it went for close to $500,000. So I think I sent you. Jeremy, do you have the picture that Wayne Gretzky ticket? Do you have that one that I sent you later in the day? Yes. So this is. This is a ticket. It is a full ticket, David and Jeremy, to the pro debut of Wayne Gretzky's career. He started out the Indianapolis Racers. It's his first hockey game ever as a professional. This is a full ticket. It is actually lot one of our first auction that's coming up on September 17th. It is a pop one. It is one of one. No one has ever seen. Seen this ticket before. It has never been offered or sold anywhere ever. I wrote down a couple of things. There's only three stubs to this game. This is the only full, and there are only three of these stubs. 60 Michael Jordan Debut stubs. So this is mega, super rare. We are so excited to offer this as our lot one in our first auction house auction. And we are. We're just so thrilled. And it's. It's just. It's a terrific ticket. It's an incredible piece, for sure. David, how do you like that piece? I mean, that piece is amazing. I mean, that's a one of one. So, I mean, how can it not be amazing? I kind of want to think about this in the direction of cards a little bit, Jeremy, As I was thinking about it, and, you know, the stubs, which I know are very impressive because there's low population and they're in perfect condition because maybe they didn't go to the show or maybe it was a promoter that had it that didn't give away the ticket. Whatever the scenario is. I kind of feel like it's similar to, like, the 1915 Cracker Jacks, where you can Find them that were not in the box and they were mailed in. Right. For the 1915 version, unlike the 14, some of them were inside. Some of them you had to mail in. Those ones that you sometimes see out in the world that are PSA 8, that are ungodly numbers, they go for a crazy amount. But there are some people that if they want a 1915 Cracker Jack, they want a little bit of the caramel on there. Right. Which I think is kind of like the stub in that kind of situation, too. Go ahead, Howard. Analogy, David. I love the 14 Cracker Jacks because it's got caramel and peanuts and gook on it, but there's a lot of people that like the 15s, even though they weren't in Cracker Jack boxes. So, yeah, it's kind of. It's. A lot of people have different ways they collect, that's for sure, Howard. You know, cards became a little bit more legitimized as a. I'll just go extreme as a financial asset. When grading came into the. Into our world, they. They legitimized grading, legitimized cards to a degree. Not to everybody, but just to many people. Did. Did slabbing tickets legitimize them or was that. Was that a moment in the history of ticket collecting that kind of propped it up to be more legitimate? And did that bring in more collectors? And I know it's so easy to say, well, yes, Jeremy, the card collectors came in, or some of them did. But did that bring in more new collectors than just from the card world? Yeah, sure. Absolutely, Jeremy, it did. Because, you know, you never want to buy a ticket, and you're not sure if it's really to someone's debut or you're not really sure if it's to that game. And psa, they have a great research team led by Matt Miller and Steve Lee, and these guys do a phenomenal job. So the fact that you're buying something that's in a PSA slab, you know, it authenticates it. You know, you're getting the real thing. So it absolutely legitimized this part of the hobby as well as, you know, what it's done for cards and programs and magazines and everything. Absolutely. Jeremy, are the criteria the same for grading cards and tickets? Like, is it centering? Is it registrate? Well, it's not registration really for psa, but is it centering edges, corners, and surface? What else comes into play that a card collector might not instantly realize? Yeah, I mean, I think it's creasing you know, if there's creases, I think how the tear is. So if it's a stub, if it's, if it's a clean tear, if it's maybe a jagged tear, but we're certainly looking at all of those things. But it's different. It's certainly different. You know, I think, I think for tickets there's always honest corners, to quote Mike Petty. But, you know, I, I'm not. So I'm not such a big deal about the grading, the grade itself for a ticket give me a PSA1 or a PSA2 all day and I'm thrilled with it. What about thing issues like restoration, alteration, these sorts of things? Is that a problem in the world of ticket collecting? And I kind of asked because I could imagine coming home, you know, a kid comes home from a ball game or, or an adult comes home from a concert ticket, has been used and abused in their pocket again, they're putting their, they're, they're digging for their keys, they're, they're digging for their wallet to go buy a beer or a T shirt, whatever it might be. Ticket gets ripped in half and then, you know, maybe they save it and lo and behold, they've got this ticket from an amazing event, it's in two pieces. What happens then? What, what, what is the what, what's the approach to that in the world of ticket collecting? So just the same way that they would do it in cards, PSA would grade that as an alter ticket and it would go on the designation on the top of the flip and it's the exact same and it's frowned upon. Obviously, if someone trims a ticket that would also be caught by psa, they do a phenomenal job. So it's very much similar to cards. If you're going to buy a graded ticket, a slab ticket by psa, rest assured it's going to be evaluated by the very best and it's going to legitimize it for sure. For sure. Is there a. Like in sports cards, we talk about collecting versus investing. I mean, I, I built a whole platform called the Hobby Spectrum around that polarity between collectors and investors in tickets. I have to think you've got collectors who really just want to event again, tickets from events they were at, even if it's not their own ticket versus investors buying those key moment tickets. Fill us in a little bit on the world of collecting versus investing when it comes to tickets. Or is it just the exact same as cards, which would be a little bit boring of an answer. I hope there's some. Some nuance there. Well, you know, I gotta tell you, I'm a huge ticket collector. I love collecting tickets. There's tickets that I find that are $5 tickets and they mean just as much to me as my 10,000 tickets. There's tickets I've searched for for years and years and years, and they're so rare and so scarce. No one cares about them but me. And when I find one and it's three bucks or it's seven bucks or it's 12 bucks, I go crazy. I'm so happy. But there are definitely people, Jeremy, that are coming into the hobby and that are here hobby to make money. They see that tickets really have a long way to go. I was at the White Plains show today. There were a lot of card collectors at some of the tables that had tickets. And I think a lot of them were buying them because, hey, they're Yankees fans. So they want Babe Ruth tickets or Mickey Mantle tickets or they want something Jackie Robinson. But I think they're also thinking about it from an investment perspective, like we all do when it comes to cards or autographs or memorabilia or whatever we're collecting. So I think there's aspects of both, for sure. Well, that, that leads to the, you know, the next discussion point, which I think is a natural turning point, which is manipulation, pump and dumps, that sort of thing. Is there concern amongst you and your ticket collecting friends that certain tickets may be being pumped up just to be dumped? Is there market manipulation? Is there shill bidding? How do you guys in. In the. And is that partially why you're launching your own ticket company to. To clean it up? I'm totally taking a guess there. That's from out of left field. But does that exist in the community, in the ticket collecting community? And if it doesn't yet, you got to figure it's coming as the. As. As the segment grows. No, yeah, it's a good question, Jeremy. I would say this. I don't really see too much in the way of pumping and dumping because the tickets are so scarce. It's hard really to pump and dump. I mean, because there may only be 2 or 3 or 5 of a ticket period. So we really don't. Don't really see that. Not really yet, at least. I mean, I really haven't seen a lot of the pump and dump in tickets. The auction house itself, I mean, I started this auction house with two other gentlemen. One's a humongous card collectors, One of the biggest card collectors around the other gentleman who's a partner of mine, he's ticket collector. He's a card collector. He's. And we kind of felt like the space needed its own auction house because tickets kind of get lost in some of the bigger auction houses and we don't want them to get lost. We want ticket collectors, like the three of us to host an auction house for other ticket collectors. And that's really the goal. And that's why we started front row auctions. Do ticket collectors collect themes, players? Is there a set registry? Do you. I mean, I remember being at the national one or two years ago. I forget which one it was. A buddy of mine showed me a ticket that he picked up. It was a guy on Instagram, Pangea collectible showed me a ticket he bought. I was like, that's so cool. You know, I went to the ticket vendors booth. Hey, might have even been you, Howard. I'm not sure. And I'm looking around and one of the problems I have at a ticket booth at a card show is that you really have to look at each piece to know what you're looking at. You have to read the labels. There's no instant image recognition. I can pick out a 52 tops Jackie Robinson from a mile away with that bright red background, right? Or a 79 Opici Gretzky. I can, I can, I can spot those from a mile away. Tickets, you literally need to bend over, look at that showcase, read this, read the, the flip or the label in the PSA slab. Even more than you're going to look at the ticket itself because the ticket doesn't always tell you what it's about, that you need the, you need the label to tell you what it's about. So. And I was thinking to myself, I'd like to go buy a ticket. But I just, I felt overwhelmed by what I was looking at. And I saw, you know, Frank Robinson's, you know, 312th home run, if he even scored, like random things that meant nothing to me. But how do you do that? Like, how do ticket collectors approach ticket collecting? So they have an organized way to do it. So you're asking really a bad person for this, to be honest with you, because I am so passionate about tickets that I love everything. So I am all over the place. I go ahead and I'll buy a ticket to the first super bowl on a Saturday at a show and, and on a Sunday, I'll buy a ticket to the concert that Ozzy Osbourne ate the head off of the bat because it's such a memorable show. So I want both of them. I want it all. I want Jackie's debut. I want Mickey Mantle's debut. You see, here he goes. He's got the Ozzy Osbourne. You see, I have it. I have it. And look, look, David, it's a stub and it's ripped and it was in someone's pocket. It was there and they saw it. But so that's amazing. I want it all. I want it all. There are some guys, though, Jeremy, that are incredibly focused. There is a very sophisticated registry. There are people, Jeremy, that have tickets to just Major League Baseball, hall of Famers debut games. They have every hall of Fame football debut. They have every game that Jackie Robinson played in 1947. And they are incredibly, incredibly focused. I'm all over the place because I love it all. I want concert tickets and inauguration tickets and baseball and football and basketball and hockey and movies and astronauts and, you know, they have. They actually have tickets so you could watch the Apollo missions. I mean, how dang cool is that? If that's not cool to you, I don't know what is. It's very cool to me. I think it's really, really cool. Now I think about. I think a bit about. We talked about the full versus the stub. David brought up the Cracker Jacks. I think about magazine collecting, like Sports Illustrated magazines, that kind of thing. You've got newsstand edition versus the edition that have mailing labels on them. That to me is a kind of an analogy to stub versus unused. Is that. Does that make sense to you, Howard? I'm just trying to. I'm just thinking about it. When you brought it up to me, Jeremy, I actually thought it was spot on. It really is. The subscriptions versus the newsstands. And the newsstands are much rarer. People covet those newsstand issues because they were tougher to get and they're usually in better shape versus the subscription issues that may have the label on them. Yes, I think the stub and full versus newsstand and subscription was a perfect comparison for me. Jeremy, I thought you were. You were right on with that. Cool. I think that, that, that's interesting. What about a concert? Let's. Let's say Michael Jackson went on tour and he had 50 stops. Is the first concert on that tour a ticket worth more than the. Than a middle concert worth more than the final concert? Does the city that the concert happened in matter at all? Or are all cities equal when it comes to concerts? Oh, my God, Jeremy, you're asking such good questions. They're great questions. Perfect question. So the first ticket, you know, for a concert to the. A ticket to the first concert. Super rare, incredibly rare. You know, a lot of times, you know, bands or groups start out in a garage, so there really was no debut ticket to it, or they started in a really small venue and there is no ticket. Last concerts, incredibly popular. Especially if someone passed away. Like the last concert that Nirvana ever had with Kurt Cohen. Incredibly collectible. The last concert of Selena before she was killed. Very, very collectible. But you know what, Jeremy? There may be tickets. I think I sent you one where it has nothing to do with a first or a last. But maybe it would be like Michael Jackson. He actually filmed a commercial for Pepsi. I don't know if you remember it, guys. Yeah, yeah. Hair Caught on Fire. You got it, David. That was a ticketed event. Michael Jackson's Hair on Fire. And here we go. We have a full ticket to that event. So that is an incredibly collectible ticket. Anyone our age remembers that moment. So, of course, everyone who's a Michael Jackson fan or a music fan would like to get a ticket to that event. So very rare, very cool. But you ask a really good question. Yes. First concerts, last concerts, and then maybe memorable concerts. People who had their first concert maybe at Madison Square Garden, maybe a Carnegie hall, something like that. Yeah, they're. They're pretty collectible, for sure. You mentioned, like, the death. I have my. This is my ticket from a Blind Melon concert before Shannon Moon was died from December 1993. You know, it's a simple. I guess that would be called a. I think it's like one of those. A Ticketmaster sort of ticket from me being at that show. I remember it extremely well. Tea Party was a. Was one of the. The openers there. Tell us a bit about this kind of ticket. This is a ticket that is not very pretty. It really doesn't look that nice. It's almost like the base. Don't take this the wrong way, fellow card collectors, but is this like the base card of the hobby? And then. And then you've got like the. The season ticket version, the box office version. Explain to us the different types of tickets and. And then we're going to segue. And by the way, lots of great questions in the chat. I'm starring a bunch of them guys. So talk about the types of tickets, Howard. But then we're going to get into the fact that tickets are kind of. No more now. Everything's digital and on your phone. How does that impact tickets? We've had a bunch of questions about that, but start with the different types, please, and how collectors look at them. Yeah, so season ticket versions are, of course, the most popular and usually the most collectible. They're also the most artistic, more beautiful than the. The other kinds of tickets. So if you can get a season ticket version to a ticket that's going to be the most collectible and most desirable, then you'll have ones that you buy at the box office. So it may not be as artistic, but it would have the team name on it or the team logo on it. That would probably come next. And then Team Ticketmaster or Ticketron, because they're pretty generic, would probably be the least desirable. But I kind of like, sometimes the Ticketron, like, it brings me back to the 70s or the 80s, and it's pretty cool, too. But that would be the tiers. And then if you want to. If you want to segue Jeremy, into the fact that tickets are no more, you know, it's a shame. It really is a shame that they're no more. Because, David, you know, your book and Jeremy, your book. Kids, like my kids, they don't have books anymore. But, you know, people always bring that up to me, is that going to hurt the collectability of the ticket? And I'm going to tell you this. You know, there are no photographs anymore. Everything's digital. Everything's on our phones, everything's on our computers. But look at the way Type 1 photographs have taken off. People are just crazy over Type 1 photographs, and you don't get photographs anymore. And that hasn't hurt the collectability. It's actually, I think, helped the collectability. You know, for a long time, record albums, vinyls, they were obsolete. And then kids were like, you know what? We don't have vinyls. Vinyls are back and people are collecting vinyls and kids want vinyls. And I'm going to tell you this, everyone's still going to say, do you have a ticket to the game? Do you have a ticket to the concert? Whether it's a hard ticket or a digital ticket, I don't think it's going to hurt the collectibility of these at all. In fact, I think because they're rarer and scarcer, it's going to wind up making them more collectible. Yeah, that. I love how you. How you brought up the type 1 ticket analogy because there were comments coming in. Are these going to. Our tickets going to go the way of stamps and stamp collecting? Which I don't think so because stamps are not really, to me, they're not. I think stamp collectors might take this the wrong way, but they're not really cultural items to me. I mean, I guess they can rep, they can represent certain historical figures and stuff, but not all of them do. Some of them are just very generic. So yeah, I, I think, I think, I think tickets have more to them than the stamp world did. They're also so much bigger and just so much more tied into culture. They're not. No one's. No, no one's. No, no one's broadcasting somebody mailing a letter, but you are broadcasting a game like it's going out to millions of people. I saw in the chat, I think it was Stoops mentioned that he saw. Yeah, I saw Blind Melon warming up for the Rolling Stones, which made me pull out my Rolling Stones ticket from the show I was at. That goes back to August 23, 1994, the Voodoo Lounge tour, just a couple years after I went to see Blind Melon. So these are really, it's fun, it's been fun for me to take these out and revisit all of those memories. Before I go to the next question, which is kind of unrelated to we were just talking about, I want to go to David, see if you have any comments or questions from these topics. David? Yeah, my, my question. You know we're at the beginning stage of collecting tickets, right? Would you say that we're at more at the beginning than later on in stages? So, you know, Jeremy and I have a huge ticket collection. I have some pretty epic tickets of shows that I've been to or, or games. So I'm guessing when you're looking at pop counts, I mean that shouldn't that get a lot larger as the years go on? Is it scary to buy low pop tickets when you know that so many of them are not in slabs at this point? Yeah, you know, it's actually Jeremy brought that up to me too and I really haven't seen, I've been doing this for a long time, you know, for, for, for me. Ten years of solid ticket collecting. That's a long time to be in tickets. I was in Cards for a lot longer, but 10 years of solid ticket collecting and we really haven't seen an influx of people finding tickets even with some of these huge six figure sales. You're thinking if there are some huge six figure sales, maybe high five figure sales, tickets are going to come out of the woodwork and occasionally you will see two or three pop up and you're like, wow, I didn't really think they would ever be three or four more of those, but a lot of times, David, they really haven't. And you would expect that those tickets would have probably surfaced already. Jeremy says you're probably going to see some more come with the popularity of ticket collecting. And maybe so. But again, if something's a pop 2 or a pop 3 and now it becomes a pop 5 or a pop 6, you know, so what, you know, if something's a pop 1 and it becomes a pop 50 or a pop 100, that might be concerning, but I haven't seen it. I haven't seen it in 10 years of doing this. But it's a great question. Yeah, we did talk about that. And, you know, I would. I think the question is, like, is there a gold mine or a treasure trove of tickets out there waiting to be discovered? I mean, here we are, you know, we're really. What are we? We're 35 years since the big junk wax era when everyone was collecting sports cards in the, in like 89 to 92 kind of thing. That was really the, the hottest time the hobby's ever seen. Maybe next to right now or now is next to then. And back then, you know, we're. Because it's. We're 35 years since cards truly blew up, and now we're five years since they had another big explosion. Yet we're still f. There are still attic finds going on and families coming out of the woodwork with their uncles or grandfathers or father's collection since they died that, you know, they knew they were there, but they were never allowed to touch them. All these things. I have to think, Howard, that there is a treasure trove of ticket stub collections out there just waiting to be discovered, like mine. Mine is not a treasure trove. I got nothing of value, but. But to me, it's a treasure trove. I love it. I love my ticket collection. It's a dog. It documents my life. It's super cool. But I think there has to be a treasure trove of ticket collections out there that are just waiting to make their way to market eventually, and that's going to push up the, the supply. David, what do you think? Yeah, I mean, that's where. That's where my mind went also. And by the way, this is not. I, I, you've convinced me. I am very interested in tickets after this conversation. But, like, the one ticket that I've looked into in the past was the biggest music event, in my opinion, in history. Is Woodstock. And when I googled and looked at Woodstock, that is like a junk wax ticket, right? Nobody used their tickets because they all hopped the fences and they found like something crazy. 100,000 unused tickets or something. So now they're all over the market and they're worth very little. So those are the kind of things that scare me a little bit. Was that just a one off scenario? It's a one off scenario. And let me tell you something, David. Although those tickets have been found. So they had all these tickets printed and then everyone rushed the gates and no one needed any tickets. So someone just took all the tickets and put them in a safe and someone found them years ago. So it is a one off. But the crazy thing is, is, you know, it's such a great ticket and it's so collectible and, and for a low grade, you know, they're all full tickets because no one ever used them. But you could buy a PSA4 or PSA5 for like 50 bucks, 30 bucks. But you know what the crazy thing is, is if you find ones graded by PSA that are tens, the tens are incredibly collectible and they're way more rare than you would think. So for the Woodstocks, people go for the tens if you're really wanting to collect one, and if you just want one because they're cool and you want to have a Woodstock ticket, then you just buy one for 50 bucks. But that's definitely, that's definitely a one off as it relates that. Who'd want that 10? Give me a ticket that actually was used. Like those tens to me are. That's for the, that's just for the people collecting plastic and paper PSA labels. That's not. I want and fire on mine. I want. Yeah, I want there to be like a cigarette burn hole through a, through a Woodstock or a cigarette burn throughout, you know, like marijuana and alcohol and the whole thing. Yeah, I know, but I'm gonna say this to you, I'm gonna say this to you guys, I mean, as it relates to finding gold and I've been treasure hunting for 10 years. I know a lot of people have been searching to un. You know, to get tickets out from people that, that you would never think buying collections, advertising on Craigslist, in Facebook groups, all over Instagrams and years ago in newspapers, in trade magazines. We haven't found them. Where are they? I haven't found them in all the years I've been doing them. I have a dream. I have this dream that I'm going to find A ticket in a shoebox or a cigar box to Lou Gehrig's Luck band speech. I have this dream all the time and I keep willing that ticket to myself. David. I've never found it. Jeremy. I've never found it. So if they're out there, call front row auctions, call me stubble up. I want to buy them. I want them because they're not there. Those are. Yeah, Howard, those are The Honus Wagner T206s of the hobby. And I'm seeing you. There's a ticket collector, James. James here, welcome to the show, says there is not really some gold mine sitting out there where some with some tickets. And he says, you know, people collected tickets for years, but to have lots of valuable tickets in your collection, you would have had to have gone to every game that had value. And that makes sense to me, but that's not. I'm talking about having them all of value. I'm somebody ticket the ticket collections out there. I disagree with you and all your ticket contemporaries, Howard. I am convinced. You said you've been looking for them for 10 years. That's nothing. That's nothing. You haven't, you've. You haven't. You haven't scoured the earth for them. There's no way you could think about the card world. There are still collections turning up from unknown collectors. And again, we're 35 years since people, since Wayne Gretzky and Bruce McNall bought the Honus Wagner for $451,000. That woke up the hobby. We're still like, there are, there are now. I'm not saying they're treasure troves in terms of value, but they're treasure troves in terms of volume. And they may not be worth anything, but there are going to be some very cool black swamp type finds out there where there will be a ticket that is of The Honus Wagner T206 type of caliber. But listen, that I haven't been scouring, so I don't know, it's just my thoughts and I mean it just sounds logical to me. So. But you know, I welcome it. I welcome it and I hope it brings lots more collectors into the ticket world because it's a great niche collectible. I love it. The people who do it love it. So if it brings more people into it, so be it. That would be terrific. And you know what too, Howard? The fact that there are more out there that gamifies the whole hobby. If they were all just already discovered, now we're just trading the same Pieces over and over again. I mean there are still, I mean we just saw a T206 Honus Wagner be discovered for the first time last year. From what it goes from 57 to 58 copies, whatever it is. And that's a very rare card. So yeah, there will be more discovered. It'll be. It's probably just going to be a trickle, but there will be these big fines. There just has to be. So different topic now if we can move on and this has come up in the chat. Getting tickets signed by the feature by the important player or musician, how does that work? How is that looked at? Because there's no pack pulled autograph tickets. I don't think so. They have to be in person. Autos. How does, how does the ticket collecting community feel about adding autos? And I'm going to take a guess on this. I'm going to guess that it enhances it and makes them much more desirable because there is no way to do it any different. Whereas in cards we can get pack pulled autographs for players that were alive during that era. So that's my guess. David, do you have a guess onto how autographs hinder or how. How the. No, how the ticket community looks at autographs on tickets? Oh, I think that they probably love them and they look at the pop count and there's way less that are autographed than are not. But obviously it has to be autographed by the right person from that game. Right? Obviously. If I'm going to guess also that if Jackie's debut ticket and it's signed by multiple people outside of just Jackie, you probably would rather have it just Jackie. But that's just a guess. Now before you answer, Howard, Leighton Sheldon has joined the studio. Leighton, give me. Are you ready to come on the screen and jump into the conversation? Guys, please welcome Leighton Sheldon from Just Collect and the Vintage Spotlight podcast to as well as trading card therapy to the sage Howard, say hi to Latent. I know you know each other. Davis, everybody say hello. Hey guys, how are you? How you doing? Leighton, good to see you. Excellent. Good to see you as well. And Leighton, as a ticket collector, you know that Jeremy, late. Well, let's hear. Leighton, you're joining now. I don't know if you've been watching any of this, but we've been talking tickets for close to an hour already here with Howard. Where do you fall? Do you collect tickets? Do you have your childhood ticket collection? I do collect tickets. I have my childhood collection, ticket collection somewhere. Could be in my parents house. Could be in an old Nike shoebox with my David Robinson pump sneakers. I don't know. Well, welcome to the show, Leighton. It's good to have you here. So, Howard, please respond to that. Please respond now. We got Leighton with us. Yeah. So, for sure, autographs on tickets are incredibly collectible. I mean, you're taking something that is mega rare in a ticket, and then you're adding somebody's autograph to it, which makes it even rarer and scarcer. So I'm. I'm not embarrassed to say it. I'm at the White Plains show. I came up to see a friend of mine in Connecticut, and I'm getting on a train tomorrow to Philadelphia to go to a Comic Con. It'll be my first Comic Con ever. I am going to meet Mr. T. Mr. T of B.A. baracus, 18, Blubber Lang. And I am going for the sole purpose, Jeremy. And you bring it up, and you didn't know this. I am getting my WrestleMania 1 ticket that already has Hulk Hogan on it signed tomorrow by the one and only Mr. T. So I flew to White Plains, New York, for the show because I. I wanted to go to the show, and now I'm traveling tomorrow to a comic con in Philadelphia to get my Hulk Hogan WrestleMania 1 ticket signed by Mr. T. So who. I think it's popular. You darn well better believe. I think it's popular, and I think it's great. There. There are some people, though, Jeremy, that are purists that don't like their ticket sign. They like them just the way they are in their normal form. I completely respect that, and I get it. But I love a signed ticket, and I think it's. It's terrific. I think. I think that I would, too, if I could go get my Stones ticket signed by Mick Jagger or, you know, anybody else like. Like that as well. Thanks for tuning in and being a part of the sports cards live community. Don't forget to, like, subscribe, and most of all, keep collecting more great content to come. Sports cars is a lifestyle.